Remington: “NBC Doesn’t Hesitate to Edit the Truth”


NBC has been trying to make out that the Remington shotgun trigger group is fundamentally flawed. They cherry picked their evidence. Remington responds …

Next time you wonder why your factory gun comes with a painfully heavy trigger remember the above video. I hope that this saga will not result in the entire industry bumping up their trigger pulls by another 1/2 pound.

On a side note: I have modified my Remington shotgun and lightened the trigger to a very light 2.5 lbs.





Steve Johnson

Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.


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  • APBTFan

    NBC is beyond pathetic. They’ve abandoned any shred of objectivity or shame. Purely agenda driven.

    • GeoffH

      That means they are just like ABC (remember the Dan Rather stuff about Bush43 TANG docs).

    • Nadnerbus

      It’s kind of sad. Pretty much the whole media world leaned moderately to far left prior to Fox News, and they didn’t even realize it. Fox came along and finally started a news outlet sympathetic to the other 50% of America that doesn’t lean left. Legacy media totally misses the point, and thinks, “We need to go even FURTHER left and out fox FOX!” (pun intended). And you end up with crap like this.

      I am suspicious of any media outlet with an obvious bias. They probably serve political masters in some form or another, either directly or by mutual sympathies. But NBC, and especially MSNBC have just gone off the deep end, all in the name of marketing demographics I guess. The problem is, left leaning America has plenty of options for news outlets that agree with their views. Right leaning Americans have one, Fox.

      If they were really smart, they would be trying to steal from the 50% market share Fox has, not further split the other 50% that the rest of legacy media share amongst themselves.

  • JM

    NBC never cherry picks evidence… *coughZimmermancough*

  • Mr. Fahrenheit

    I know very little about shotguns, but I’m still surprised to hear that a light trigger is desired when shooting one.

    I’ll have to get my mine and and experiment…but I probably won’t.

    • Tinkerer

      No matter what firearm you use -muzzleloader, breechloader, single shot, repeater, self-loader, smoothbore, rifled bore, handgun, long gun, shotgun, rifle, carbine, pistol, revolver…- : you always want to shoot accurately. A too heavy trigger pull hurts accuracy on the human component of the firearm-shooter equation: the heavier the trigger pull, the harder you have to squeeze-pull-whatever, and the more the firearm moves around instead of staying on-target.

      • Kommac

        Tinkerer, although you are correct in that the human error can be compensated for by reducing the trigger pull, for the novice/non-competitive shooter, a simple change in technique, (using less finger and more finger tip and practicing pulling straight back instead of pulling to the left or right dependent on handedness) can also help to adjust. It is important for new viewers/shooters to notice this as overall, technique of the shooter, not the technology, decides how accurate and more importantly, how safe he is in manipulating the firearm. For inexperienced shooters, lightening the trigger could be dangerous. Also, for home defense purposes, a light trigger pull could possibly cause an unwanted parasympathetic (fight or flight) reflex action to result in even the slightest engagement of the trigger causing an unwanted discharge. Now, you may say, “well then keep your finger out of the trigger guard!” under normal circumstances this is an ideal safety procedure, BUT, when turning corners in your home to POSSIBLY engage and neutralize a threat AFTER POSITIVELY IDENTIFYING IT, I doubt MY finger would be outside the trigger guard. And if at this point, having your finger in the trigger guard (not necessarily on the trigger) is still a potential danger to yourself or innocents, then perhaps someone else should be holding the firearm. This remark was in no way directed towards any one poster, just an addition to Tinkerer’s comment.

      • Tinkerer

        Kommac, I wholeheartedly agree with you that a TOO LIGHT trigger pull might be potentially hazardous under certain circumstances -novice/badly trained user, very stressful situation, and also with badly executed trigger lightening gunsmithing-. Just keep in mind that my post was about the effect of the opposite situation -TOO HEAVY trigger pull- on accuracy. By the way, with a TOO HEAVY trigger and an untrained user, there could be a potential safety risk as well, if the loss of accuracy is so big that a consciously fired shot ends somewhere we didn’t intend it to go.

        Final thoughts? Train a lot with the firearm you use, handle with safety in mind, and have the whole firearm -especially trigger group and safeties- in tip-toe condition either by yourself, or a competent gunsmith.

  • Lance

    That’s why you dont rust main stream media on firearms issues they lie wayyyyyy too much for political gain.

  • Has anyone ever see the garbage show NBC put out about the Remington 700 action being flawed and how it can go off accidentally? NBC continues to proves its biased garbage.

    Side note:
    First time to comment here, very nice blog been reading for a few years now. Keep up the good work.

    • Komrad

      To be fair, there was a trigger group that could do that, but it was removed from production back in the 1980’s when the flaw was discovered and Remington offers retrofitting for affected guns. So, that was bull as well, but more about the timeline of the issue and less about the issue itself.

      • Mike

        Some of the examples they showed, particularly the SWAT officers whose rifle would discharge when they closed the bolt, were very obviously botched trigger jobs. That particular failure is a well known issue with bad trigger jobs on the 700.

  • Nadnerbus

    You know, I have an 870, I kind of want to go drop it on the butt a few times and see what happens (with a snap cap of course).

    The safety mechanism in the 870 trigger group is not the most robust and fail safe design ever, but I think its adequate for what it is intended to do. Proper firearm handling and safety rules do the rest.

    It seems like NBC is trying to hold Remington long guns up to the same drop test type standards that handguns are often held up to. And since they aren’t legally required (as far as I know) to be engineered to those standards, you can probably find some that fail. That doesn’t necessarily mean that Remington is negligent in design. Is this an incorrect assessment?

    • Nadnerbus

      OK, so I dropped mine from a foot or two onto the hardware floor several times, safety on, safety off, and no failure. Not scientific, and I can’t drop it from too far, since I have downstairs neighbors, but I am definitely not worried about a discharge without trigger pull.

      • Kommac

        Yeah, I think the 2.5lb trigger pull they mentioned in the video more than explains the “malfunction”. No firearms manufacturer should ever be held responsible for issues that arise surrounding critical mechanisms that have been subject to aftermarket tomfoolery. Especially if a professional gunsmith did not implement the changes (not that this really matters, legally) Interestingly, the Remington owner’s manual does not specify the factory trigger pull but I believe, from what I have read on other forums regarding the matter, that it is at 5lbs and that it is suggested only to be reduced to 4lbs BY A REMINGTON CERTIFIED/approved GUNSMITH)

      • Mark

        I own four 870’s – two 12ga for myself and two 20ga for my son. My first 12ga was purchased used (from a BMX bike store…) over 30 years ago. It’s a Wingmaster but since it only handles 2 3/4″ shells, it has now become my dedicated slug gun. Many years back I had the trigger pull reduced to b/t 2.5 and 3 pounds by a gunsmith. I did this because I shoot it as a rifle – steady, breathe, squeeze – one round at a time. Not shoulder the gun and jerk like you do when bird/duck hunting. I too have done the drop test, safety on and safety off, on this modified 870 and the other 3 as well. None of them went off. And this gun, mind you, is pushing 40 years old, has thousands of rounds through it, cleaned and maintained myself (except for the trigger pull adjustment) and all original parts (except for the newer rifled slug barrel).

        Safeties are there to assist – Your brain has to do the rest. Kind of like anti-lock brakes…

    • Mike

      After watching the story, I held my 870 as high as I could and dropped it onto my floor a few times (empty chamber). Hammer stayed down.

      • Mike

        LOL, a downvote for dropping my unloaded shotgun on the floor to see if the hammer stayed back? Really?

        Man, some of y’all need to get a grip.

      • David/Sharpie

        Haha, it pisses me off too, people downvoting either good posts or opinions.

        Don’t worry about it, trolls come out from under the bridge to do a thumb down strike then go right back under the bridge so no one sees their ugly mugs

  • Hikerguy

    I think the old saying we have down south “Don’t believe anything you hear and only half of what you see” applies to this situation.

  • I wonder if this NBC attack has anything to do with Remington’s letter to NY State opposing micro stamping. Any bets on if enough stones were kicked around at NBC a trail to emperor Bloomberg would be unearthed?

  • gybryant

    So, is any of this actionable on Remington’s part? Can they sue NBC for slander?

  • RickH

    The news report doesn’t surprise me. What I do find interesting is the trigger pull weight on your shotgun. 2 1/2 pounds? Seriously?

    • El Duderino

      Why not?

      Before it was stolen, my old man had a Hi Standard .22 with a HAIR trigger. If it was a pound I’d be surprised.

      2.5lbs on a shotgun just means you better know what you’re doing and keep it on safe until you’re absolutely ready to fire. No crawling around the bush with it on FIRE and your finger hovering over it. I think this is why most dangerous game rifles don’t have light triggers…

      • RickH

        I’m sorry but your comments don’t seem to make any sense. Your dad had gun that was ready to go off if you breathed on it, and I don’t know anyone who handles firearms safely that “crawls around the bush” with the safety off.

      • jdun1911

        My .22lr target pistols and rifles are less than 1lbs with very minimum travel. These are competition pistols and rifle so it is only loaded on the range.

    • jdun1911

      RichH you need to understand there is more to gun than home defense and combat.

      His dad most likely used his .22lr as a target pistol for competitions. It’s common to have extreme light pull on .22lr competition firearms.

      • RickH

        But he didn’t say that, and I understand about light and crisp trigger weights on target handguns and rifles. My original post was about the 2 1/2 pound trigger on an 870.

      • Mike

        Rick; go shoot any shotgun sport and get competitive. By the time it’s all said and done, I’m sure I’ll wind up with a sub-4lb trigger in my SLP since it’s a 3 gun toy.

        It doesn’t really matter what game I play, either. If I can run a lighter trigger, it’s generally going to make my shots more accurate. I might not run an 8 oz trigger in a skeet gun, but I could see running one that’s approx. 3 lb.

      • jdun1911

        2.5lbs trigger pull isn’t uncommon for those that desire speed and accuracy. Lots of people carry their Glocks with 3.5 trigger and we all know that Glock don’t have manual safety or long trigger travel. Same thing with 1911.

        IIRC the M40 which Marine Scout Sniper use is 3lbs or less. That’s a combat rifle with a light trigger. I have have the police version (REM 700PSS) which was 5lbs IIRC. I cut it down to around 3lbs.

        Here Travis running his AR on 1-5 drill. Took only 2.4 sec. There is no way he could have done it with a standard AR trigger.

        http://youtu.be/07joBnOuv4M

        1-5 drill

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaCpOt9xVy4

        You know this guy isn’t using a the standard trigger that came with his revolver.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLk1v5bSFPw

        Todd Jarrett isn’t running a standard 1911 trigger.

  • David/Sharpie

    I don’t think Rem should worry too much, there are millions of owners with many guns each (I own 2 870s) and we know the truth. Also they are used by LE and Mil the world over

    Most people don’t listen to NBC anyways

    • El Duderino

      Unfortunately a lot of people do, but hopefully it will lead to a surge of barely-used 870s on the used market. 🙂

      • David/Sharpie

        Haha yeah, I got my 870 used for $150, AND ITS A WINGMASTER!! Which usually go for $500+

  • Safety third

    Honestly, believing that the gun is completely safe with a round in the chamber and safety on is pretty damn naive.
    I’m 17 years old and even I think that’s pretty dumb.

    When you leave your shotgun, please make sure that the damned chamber’s empty!

    • David/Sharpie

      Mechanical devices can fail, don’t on them, I never use the safeties on my guns. “This is my safety” *Holds up right hand, makes a trigger pull motion with index finger*

      • David/Sharpie

        Damn, I checked the spelling on “rely” because it didn’t look right, but I cut it instead of copying it, should say “don’t rely on them”

      • Kommac

        Haha David/Sharpie did you happen to get that quote from Blackhawk Down? I use it ALL the time. -glock owner/carrier

      • David / Sharpie

        Damn right I did

      • Kommac

        Outstanding

    • W

      hmmm, it sounds to me like you were taught well.

  • It’s been mentioned above here, but we can’t bank on those safeties being the fail-safe of gun safety. Just like someone said, it’s mechanical, and mechanical pieces can fail at any time. If it was on safety, you still wouldn’t point it at someone. Why not? If it truly made it 100% safe, then there would be no problem with it. But it doesn’t make it 100% safe. It only helps. Good to see level-headed firearm supporters like you all here.

  • Reverend Clint

    its a little like turning your wheels accordingly while on a slop… sure your parking brake will work but what if it fails?

  • Bob Brigond

    I have a Lawton x40 clone with a jewel trigger and when you work the bolt in a specific pattern and turn the safety on and of it will fire just by putting the safety on. My gun smith showed me how to do it but I dont remember exactly what he did but the gun definitely fired without pulling the trigger. For what I am using it for I dont care that much but I do think that the design of the trigger is a bit flawed and its partly because the safety doesnt stop the firing pin from moving.

    • Mike

      So, wait. You’re upset that your MODIFIED firearm will go off without touching the trigger?

      And you didn’t rake your smith over the coals when he did these modifications and still delivered a firearm he obviously KNEW was unsafe?

      Dude.

  • A lot of these folks are missing the point. You should never rely on a mechanical safety, but rather think of it as a back up. Yes, your best safety is located between your ears.

    When hunters are in the field and ready to hunt they load their guns because game animals and birds can be extremely quick. As soon as they are through hunting they unload. If you have to cross a stream, a fence or a brush pile, you unload. Common sense.

    For home defense there is a very simple method for having your gun ready.
    This assumes you do not have children in the house that you haven’t educated about guns.

    Unload your shotgun, double check that it is unloaded with nothing the the magazine. Point it in a safe direction and pull the trigger. It is now decocked. Load the magazine tube. Now if you have a late night predatory felon kicking in your door all you have to do is run the slide and you are loaded.

    If you are a responsible, gun owning adult you should get some professional training. Most people don’t really have the skill and or knowledge they need in a self defense situation. I highly recommend Front Sight Firearms Academy outside of Las Vegas, NV.
    They can help educate your children too.
    The comment about not clearing your home with a potentially touchy trigger is good, except instead of clearing your home you should be locked in the bedroom with a cell phone and cops on the way.
    If you have tried to avoid the confrontation by going to your safe room, your conversation with the 911 dispatcher will help you in court.
    Especially if they record you telling the intruder to “Please leave, I’m armed and I don’t want to shoot you.”
    Before you pull the trigger on some predator, remember the four criteria:
    Ability The attacker must have the ability to harm you do to size difference or the possession of a weapon.
    Opportunity The attacker must be close enough to you to harm you (someone outside your house with a baseball bat doesn’t qualify)
    Jeopardy The attacker has expressed manifest intent either verbally or physically to kill you or do great bodily harm.
    Preclusion You have done everything you can to avoid having to use deadly force.
    You can’t rely on the Castle Doctrine or Stand Your Ground laws. The Zimmerman case shows how things can go wrong.
    You must be able to articulate to the police and yourself, “I was in fear for my life or the life of another or I was in fear of great bodily harm.”
    Above all, identify your assailant. You don’t want to shoot some unarmed drunk who wandered into the wrong house.

    • Mike

      I have to disagree on Front Sight. The only thing they offer is structure. Their techniques are extremely out-dated, and they’re probably the only trainer still teaching Modified Weaver for handguns. Everybody I know of has moved on to much better techniques.

      Look around for a local trainer. Don’t buy into the “I was a Navy SEAL and can teach you how to kill a terrorist with your CHL gun at 500 meters!” chest thumping. Find someone competent that will teach you solid techniques and tactics. Most important, find a trainer who has an open mind and doesn’t have a huge ego. Those kinds stagnate, which is why Front Sight sucks.

      • nate

        I think if you look, you will find that there are still plenty of noted and respected firearm instructors that still teach the weaver method. Massad Ayoob in his MAG-20 and 40 classes teaches both weaver *and* isosceles. He also interviewed Jeff Hall, the founder of HoJutSu, who also teaches weaver. The list could go on. I went to the 4 day defensive handgun class at Front Sight and enjoyed a class where basics were taught and safety was stressed. True much of the technique they taught was not what I currently used, but I was in their class and tried out what they had to say. I don’t bash any technique, because what works for you might not for me, and vis versa, and I think completely taking weaver out of the picture is not the right idea.

  • John Doe

    Meanwhile in NBC…

    “What else do we not like?”

    “I’m really feeling a dislike towards Colt right now.”

    “Jerry, I need you to make some stuff up about Colt pronto, I have another piece to do!”

  • PanFriedPipeBomb

    This kind of reminds me of how when theres a tornado/hurricane/earthquake/.etc that kills hundreds and then a lone baby is found alive in the wreckage. “HURR DURR ITSA MURICULLLL!” There’s so many Remington users that have NOT had this problem for well over 60 years. That in and of itself should practically be proof.

  • Ron

    Case in point: Zimmerman coverage – pictures, audio, and video. Proven to be edited to fit their own slant. I believe absolutely nothing the mainstream dinosaur media has to say. Not a friggin word of it.

  • Edward Dark

    To selectively tar NBC with that particular brush seems unfair, in that I have been observing all the major media “misspeak” and or make statements that were later defined as “inoperative” for over forty years.
    Though it is refreshing to see actual documentation of a biased hit piece when a “suspicion” is being raised.

    I remember all the major media playing the denial game while calling it balanced reporting with regard to the dangers of tobacco products. Yes, I smoked , a lot and I knew that I was playing russian roulette in doing so and everyone I knew was well aware of the dangers of chew ,smoke or snuff and pipes. I sure hated the “Balanced Reporting that was designed to deliberately muddied the waters.

    If Remington, or any other manufacturer made products as flawed as NBC’s quality control all the major manufacturers would have been out of business years ago.

  • NBC has been noted for lie’r since the Vietnam War. Twisting the facts and telling it in a way that the Liberals want to hear it. With there noses so far up obamas but that’s all they know how to work. I feel sorry fore the American sheep who believe all there garbage. Rant over