Steve Johnson

Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.


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  • Other Steve

    Not only is quad rail incredibly stupid for a 24″ 308 bullpup… That is HIDEOUS. I would have thought a 6-8″ longer forend would have been enough for a useable bipod. Oh, I just looked at the pic again, man that bad!

  • ThomasD

    Just overheard today at a gun show that the PMR-30 is on an eight month backorder.

    Maybe one day Kel-Tec will go into the business of producing guns in appreciable quantity.

  • Stu C.

    Soooooooo, they should be available sometime in 2014.

  • Jusuchin (Military Otaku)

    5.56x45mm Conversion might be nice.

    • Other Steve

      If they could fix the noise issues when suppressed I’d like to see a 300blk bullpup, for 556 I think the AUG is still cooler. AUG in 300 would also be cool but it has different suppressed issues.

      • matt

        Have you ever tried the trigger on an AUG or a RFB? Give’em both a try, and you’ll change your mind.

  • shankbone

    Why is this not an RMR-30?

    • Sian

      Why is this not an RMR-30?

      I would guess because they can’t get the PMR/RMR mechanism to stop exploding?

  • Lance

    Lose the quad rails and use AR or M1A mags instead other than that fun looking gun.

    • Komrad

      It uses inexpensive and plentiful FAL mags. M1A mags probably wouldn’t work well with the magwell and AR-10 mags are fairly expensive and there aren’t millions of cheap surplus ones available.

    • Other Steve

      We see you trollin.

      • mosinman

        tryin to catch me trollin dirty…… my trollin is so loud and they hatin….

    • matt

      It uses a tilting bolt, just like a FAL, and they said the mags need to be designed to accommodate this.

    • Bryan S.

      Ar-15 mags… for a .308. Sure, that’s going to work real well…

      (I can only assume that you meant AR15 since you didnt specify, and those are the most common, with people forgetting or even knowing about the AR-10 configuration)

  • cal

    remember the target version that was supposed to come out two years ago, you know the one with the 32″ barrel? oh you don’t, well neither does kel-tec.

    • Other Steve

      I heard that their 32″ was a “theory” as in, in theory it would have as much power as a 300wsm, but they couldn’t make it shoot for shit. I mean, how many modern guns can you think of that have 32″ barrels?

      I certainly don’t expect that anytime soon, and can you image how terrible that one will look with a 20″ quad rail on it?

      • matt

        “but they couldn’t make it shoot for shit”
        Have a source for that comment?

  • KC

    its cool that they have lots of innovative models, but how many of these new Kel-Tec guns are out there in the hands of people who want them? I can’t even find any SUB-2000’s or SU-16’s anywhere.

    I want the RFB, the KSG, and PMR-30, now they’re introducing multiple configurations of the RFB, KSG and PMR30. I don’t think I’ve even seen anything besides their concealed carry guns in person.

    It’s apparent that Kel Tec has grown faster than they can produce their guns, they need a new distributor. I have very little faith that this will change and that even as far out as 2020 these models will still be very rare and hard to come by

    • Other Steve

      This is classic case of go big or go home.

      By not being able to produce products, they are hurting themselves. By announcing new (and terrible looking) products they are developing a reputation as a joke. They need to buy new machines, buildings, employees, and actually focus on the products they already make. The BEST thing Keltec could have done this SHOT is not announced a single new thing, but to just tell people they are aware of the problem and are working on it. INSTEAD, there are at least 3 new Keltec designs already.

      This coupled with the fact that, love them or hate them, Keltec is not a top tier mfg of quality firearms. They are a middle tier. You take someone waiting for over a year to get an RFB or RMR or whatever, and it isn’t FLAWLESS, the kick back is going to be huge.

      They need a big company that knows how to ship product to buy them. That does come with it’s own problems though (Ask AAC).

      Also… WHY would they release 2 new KSG designs if the first one hasn’t even shipped yet?! Let the police depts buy the fullsize and release the smaller two NEXT year, and make them buy again… This is kinda basic marketing.

      • matt

        Numerous KSGs have been on gun broker, they popped up around xmas.

  • Paul

    wow, never would have thought an RFB could look that ugly.

    • Other Steve

      They really worked at that. They didn’t just want to go for ugly, they did the UTG style quad rail to get USELESS in there as well.

  • JMD

    Those guys at Kel-Tec sure do come up with some cool stuff. You know what else would be really cool though? If they found a way to produce enough product to meet market demand, so that more people can go from “I heard about it” to “I saw/tried one” to “I bought one”. Currently, a lot of their designs are about as hard to find as a unicorn. Instead of introducing new stuff all the time, maybe they should focus on just producing a handful of the products people want most, in sufficient quantities…

    Oh, and producing a version of the PMR-30 that doesn’t explode alarmingly often…

    • http://www.wallsofthecity.net Linoge

      Exactly. I will start caring about this just as soon as I start seeing the normal version in stores.

  • Tom

    The Quad Rail has to go, Yuck.. But they need something right in front of the receiver to mount a bi-pod to. Barrel needs to be match grade..

  • Pathfinder

    With that quad rail in front, where does the brass go? It IS a front-eject rifle after all.

    And ditto a gazillion times on the “Kel-tec – make more of your released weapons before bringing new out!!!” comments.

    My guess – this is a SHOT show announcement. They had to announce something, right?

    • Sian

      There’s a cutout on the left side of the quadrail where it interfaces with the foregrip to give room for the brass to fall free.

      That said, this is still totally ugly and 90% of that rail is completely unnecessary. It would look 100% better if it just used the shorty RFB rail.

      • matt

        RFBs don’t come with quad rails, if your going to buy one, you can buy the carbine quad rail instead if you hate this one so much.

  • Caseless

    “Hunter” model…very PC term. The pictured setup is perfect for engaging multiple critters at 800 meters. :)

    • bret

      I’ve used my carbine model to take a bear and an elk, great gun for hunting the thick stuff.

  • jaekelopterus

    They should call it “Long Range Murderer Edition.” It’d be great PR!

    • TW

      Get out just GTFO!

  • charles222

    I saw an RFB (not one of these, obviously) at my PX the other day. If the PX has it you guys seriously need to look harder; the PX seems to think Soviet-era department stores had a good thing going. :p

    • matt

      And plenty have been available on gunbroker for less than the MSRP for god knows how long. I paid MSRP for mine and it is in the upper 200s (out of ~2500).

    • http://deleted mosinman

      DA comrade!

    • FC3Bryce

      Where is you PX Charles and what is the store they sell guns in?

  • http://owwmyballs Chris

    I think this looks awesome,love my RFB!!!

    • matt

      I wonder if this will come with the adjustable trigger, or only the 32″. Supposedly they were going to have some way for people to upgrade their carbine triggers, whenever it gets released.

  • thatoneguy

    great… more stuff they cant possibly deliver.

  • Bruce Layne

    The criticisms of Kel-Tec designing high demand firearms and not having supply to match is justified. A lot of us are frustrated by that. FFLs love it, because they reap the windfall profits when these Kel-Tec weapons sell for twice the MSRP. As frustrating as it is for Kel-Tec customers, it’s a good problem for Kel-Tec to have. They have no inventory. They ship everything they can make. I think Kel-Tec is averse to business risk and they’re unwilling to go into debt to expand and have bankers and investors owning the company. I like gun companies to be owned by gun people. That’s why Kel-Tec keeps making these cool GottaHaveIt designs.

    I also think the aesthetic criticism of the long quad rail is justified, but not a big deal. It’s a SHOT Show gun. People will tell them it’s ugly and they’ll change the design based on feedback. They got a lot of great feedback at last year’s SHOT that made the KSG much better.

    The 32″ barreled RFB prototype shot sub-MOA. I know we’re now in the era of expensive semi-auto rifles that are almost as accurate as the best bolt action rifles, but the Target RFB would be accurate enough for most reasonable applications. It is ammo specific, though. It’d be a reloader’s rifle, and that limits its mass appeal. I’d like a 308 bullpup rifle that’s shorter than many conventional 308 rifles, with the ballistics of a 300 Win mag, with a lot less noise. I already have a super accurate 308 bolt action. I’d like a long range 308 semi-auto and I’d be happy with sub-MOA. I don’t expect it to be quarter MOA.

    Speaking of cool new Kel-Tec products I’ll have a hard time finding… I want a light weight SU-16 in 300 BLK. They’ll be showing that off at the 2012 SHOT Show.

  • Stu

    Walked into my local gun shop first week of the new year to kick the tires, walked out with a RFB for $1,430.

    Not sure what all the fuss is about not being available.

    • noob

      what state do you live in? If you’re in FL I wouldn’t be surprised they have stock, since that’s the state of manufacture.

      otherwise, maybe your dealer got lucky with the kel-tec distribution selection process.

  • brad

    Had my dealer”THE HOCK SHOP” Port Huron MI. order it and about five weeks later I walked out the door, gun in hand $1300.00 msrp$1800.00 Great gun.

  • BGriffin

    This is an impressive weapon.

    Even more impressive is the execution of the clever marketing scheme driving sales:

    1. List weapons for high MSRP (compared to common retail sales transactions), creating increased perceived value.

    2. Drive and maintain rumors of supply shortages via blog testimony by fervent enthusiasts dismayed by lack of supply and alternately happy to have been able to purchase at of above the inflated MSRP, providing reassurance through communal acceptance and inducing urgency in demand.

    3. Know that various actual buyers will report their sales at far below MSRP. This will prevent despair over lack of supply, keeping a spark of hope alive in potential buyers who believe if they are lucky, they might gain the ability to purchase a weapon if they inquire at their local retailer….

    4. Being presented with the opportunity to acquire this perceived ‘scarce’ item at far below perceived (MSRP) value, the buyer is highly motivated to complete the transaction.

    Nice work all around!

  • OGDVIN

    Hi, I just got my Hunter RFB a month ago and I seem to be having a problem with the action releasing the spent casing, in which case the bolt comes back and grabs the next round and I get a jam with the spent casing still attached to the bolt and the second unspent round stuck between the frame and the closing bolt.

    I thought it was a mag problem or a Gas adjust problem at first but then I realized the casing wasn’t getting released from the bolt carrier like it’s supposed too. Does anyone have any ideas, know of anything or can maybe lead me in the right direction to get the resolved. I Don’t want to have to get rid of the rifle.