New Russian TsKIB ASh-12 .50 Cal (12.7x55mm) Bullpup Rifle


TsKIB SOO, a subsidiary of KBP (Instrument Design Bureau), have developed a new bullpup rifle called the ASh-12. It is chambered in a new family of 12.7x55mm cartridges they developed for the rifle.

The ASh-12 Rifle

The 12.7x55mm is a thumper of a cartridge. It is similar in size, and probably power, to the .50 Beowulf. To help mitigate recoil, the ASh-12 is fitted with a large two-baffle muzzle brake. The 12.7x55mm assault rifle cartridge is based on the 12.7x55mm subsonic rifle cartridge (similar to the .500 Whisper). I do not believe an assault rifle chambered in 12.7x55mm would be able to chamber the much longer 12.7x55mm suppressed rifle cartridge. TsKIB SOO have developed a FMJ, soft-point, lead and armour piercing loads for the 12.7x55mm assault rifle cartridge.

12.7x55mm assault rifle (left), 12.7x55mm sniper (middle)
The ASh-12 Rifle with suppressor and grenade launcher (background), interesting tacti-cool revolver (foreground)

The ASh-12 is not the first bullpup from TsKIB SOO. In the mid-90s they developed the A91 assault rifle and in the early 00s, the A91M.

[ Many thanks to T.G. for emailing us the link. ]

Steve Johnson

Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.


  • RedCat

    “a FMJ, soft-point, lead and armour piercing loads”
    Sorry, but no. They are armour piercing, light bullet, heavy bullet, and two-bullet cartridges. I don’t know why they decided to revive that exotic two-bullet design, but it’s a fact. Of course, if that subscripts on the photo are not desinformation 🙂

    • paul zimmerli

      At least someone noticed that photo of the ammunition. The 12.7×55 is, of course, impressive. However, I’m intrigued by the lesser rounds shown. 7.62×59? That’s .30-06 equivalent – a good all-around hunting round. And 4.5×19? Interesting! That 8.6×59 looks like a good elk cartridge…

      Russia needs to cultivate its own corps of benchresters for competitions. With some of these new rounds, they could probably water some eyes…

  • Lance

    I don’t see this being standard issue for regular forces. However for Spetznaz Alpha team and Russian Navy boarding teams this may be a new and awesome close quarter assault weapon. But it wont be as well beyond 100+ meter than a bottle neck 5.45mm ammo.

    • Benjamin

      The SpetsNaz use weapons chambered in 9x39mm subsonic rounds too, maybe this 12.7x55mm will complement them.

  • El Freddio

    Hey, that revolver has a barrel like the one on the Chiappa Rhino
    Anyway, sounds like a good round for CQC due to its (probably) high power. Doubt it will be adopted by anyone though.

  • So now Starship Troopers have a decent weapon for bug-killing!

    • mosinman

      it just needs a 500 round mag now, cuz the starship troopers all shoot from the hip lol

      • W

        don’t blaspheme the excellent book with the irrelevant movie 😉 In the book, they don’t need cool assault rifles, they have &%$^ing powered armor.

    • Nater

      They did…in the book. The movie? Never happened, as far as I’m concerned.

  • Colin

    Forward eject or not (think i saw an ejection cover in the first photo)?
    I know the ’91M was forward eject (couldn’t work out how it worked though)…

  • Wosiu

    According to some infos, initial bath of 20 pcs of ASh-12 was ordered by Russian FSB and is under production.

    BTW, whole family of Russian 12,7x55mm ammo for VSK and ASh-12 seems to be loosely based on idea of French 12,7x57mm ammo for Stopson TFM Anthis supressed rifle.

  • Wosiu

    Ahh, as to the second photo, revolver is also in 12,7x55mm and ASh-12 UBGL is pepperbox style 3-round launcher with new 20(25?)mm grenades seen at the bottom of photo.

    • Wosiu

      Third photo of course, sorry for error.

  • Yogi seems to like that revolver. He must be thinking “I bet this would be good for Siberian tiger and capitalists”

    • RedCat

      Da, comяad!

    • Scott

      Yeah, I’m not so sure – he does have an odd expression. Course, he’s a humungous Nikita Khrushchev-looking monster in his own right… maybe that’s his normal mug….

  • Judge

    Give me an AK in 12.7x55mm instead please!

  • S O

    This kind of Russian weapons always raises an alarm in my head regarding the ineffectiveness of boom-based acoustic sniper locators against subsonic bullets…

  • SpudGun

    Was trying to remember where I first saw this rifle and then it hit me –

  • Ryan

    Is it just me or are the Ruskies not big on Trigger Discipline. Every one of these old farts should get their fingers slapped.

    • RedCat

      These white-collar official guys on most of our exhibisions are not military. None of them had ever been on the shooting range at all. Don’t take them serious.

      • El Duderino

        In Russia, your finger doesn’t pull the trigger — the trigger pulls your finger!

      • MrSatyre

        When did Russia get rid of conscription? I thought military service was still mandatory. At least it was when these guys were young!

      • RedCat

        There are tons of methods to avoid army service. Legal as well as illegal. But honestly, firearm training isn’t a strong side of today’s russian army. Level of weapon discipline in Russia depends rather on person’s interest than on gov’t training policy. Here on the photos we see fat officials. So…

      • mosinman

        El Duderino if thats the case, do you fart when the trigger pulls the finger?

    • Wosiu

      “Is it just me, or are the Ruskies not big on Trigger Discipline”

      It is just you, stupid moron!

      What “Trigger Discipline” with mock-up rifle at the show? What “Trigger Discipline” with even real rifle whitout ammo?

      Why most of american commentators of this blog are so stupid? Are you just kids or what?

      • RedCat

        Yep, first some rifle “has no ammo”, and then suddenly (wow! oops…) it blows someone’s head. Just because you are so smart and therefore don’t know what the “discipline” word stands for.

      • Wosiu


        “Yep, first some rifle “has no ammo”, and then suddenly (wow! oops…) it blows someone’s head.”

        Only in US.

        “Just because you are so smart and therefore don’t know what the “discipline” word stands for.”

        I understand this “discipline” word much better than you…

        Mentioned photos are from the show. Did you ever been on any such show?
        No? Thank you…

      • RedCat

        You’re definitely know better the places where I have been 🙂 I have no chance to overcome you.

      • mosinman

        you shouldnt have your finger on the trigger if your not gunna shoot. but im 100% sure that those weapons are unloaded… wouldnt make sense to load them, but they should check the chamber before picking them up, thats what i do

      • El Duderino

        This is legit, but it can get taken too far. I had a hunting buddy who got mad when the muzzle of my rifle crossed his body.

        In his living room, after the hunt, with the bolt completely out of the rifle, as I was pulling a Bore Snake through it!

      • jdun


        You need to go to a gun safety class.

        It doesn’t matter if the gun is fake, unloaded, or whatever. The four main gun safety rules applies to everything. Period.

      • bandito762

        In Soviet Russia trigger disciplines you!!

      • Jason

        Wosiu, you’re an airsoft player, aren’t you?

    • Partizan1942

      He is aiming at the dude selling close combat weapons at the other side of the exhibition hall… 🙂

    • Partizan1942

      He is clearly aiming at the other close combat weapon dealers across the exhibition hall. 🙂

  • T.G.

    The Russians have two existing revolver designs which fire from the bottom cylinder. The OTs-38 Scilenced Revolver and the Nosorog 9mm AEK 906.

    • Hrach Hayrapetyan

      To T.G. and everyone
      By the way guys, Russian word “Nosorog” means rhinoceros … rhino …:)

  • david

    it looks like they are holding props from some up and coming “Halo” movie and not actually real rifles…

    • El Duderino

      And a revolver from yet another Batman movie…

      • Andy from West Haven

        Holy crap, I just noticed it.


      • mosinman

        or the hellboy series

  • Travis Burke

    Huge fan of bullpup rifles. I think they are much more practical for real world, urban military use. Ive used one in Israel on a military tourism trip, the Tavor and I loved it. After having used many of the same guns as the israeli defense forces, I completely understand why the special forces use a bullpup. It is very difficult to keep hidden with a normal sized rifle. I used a lot of different guns on the trip, but the tavor was definitely my favorite. Not as fun as the grenades we got to throw, or the skydiving we did on that same trip though

    • Travis Burke

      forgot to mention the name of the company i went with, lionops. their website is I highly recommend it

      • Roy Rapoport

        Oh my God, Travis!

        Thank you so much for mentioning this. I’d never heard of this company before. I’m grateful because this sounds like probably my idea of a perfect vacation day; my wife is indirectly grateful to you because she’s been wanting us to visit Israel for a while now, and there’s no way I can resist her anymore 🙂

        This looks like a rockin’ good time.

  • Chucky

    No love for the GM94 on the table? 🙁

  • Cameron

    That revolver has got my interest piqued quite a bit.

  • Denny

    Eventually something which makes sense from grunt’s point of view. New trend for future is NOT the mickeymouse high velocity bullets with unpredictable performance and screwy wound ballistics, but a rather substantial one, which will do almost anything you ask it to do. Who cares, if oponent has flakjacket; its not gonna be of use anyway.

    This has been my line of thinking for many years, albeit with slightly lesser bore, in form of mutliple shot or single, subcaliber one. So, please note the variable type of shot depending on mission. We are entrering new era: “mission specific ammunition”. Like it or not, the Russians are in lead – again.

    The only suggestion I’d make to improve it further is to look at a mechanism with better recoil management inside of gun, not having to rely on muzzle baffle.

    • mosinman

      i wonder if the ceramic body plates the U.S uses will stop it

      • Denny

        I wish to know it too. My take is that in final count, if the shot takes guy off of his feet and gives him sufficient degree of discomfort (even without penetrating his vest) for necessary time – the job is done to expectation.

        If the sideproduct of hit is minced meat, so much better. Let’s not forget, if this bullet is heavier fy factor of eight, even with lesser launching velocity, it will still have at least 4time the energy at average combat range.

    • uberyeti

      But do you plan to carry 400 rounds of this stuff on a long patrol?

      That was one of the deciding factors for moving towards small calibre HV rounds. One soldier can’t carry enough shots of big rounds to get the job done in modern wars.

      • Denny

        The answer to this is not easy one. Let’s return to premise made at outset of small bore HV rounds introduction, that a light round will be ‘sufficiently’ efficient against unprotected target. We were also told, that 4 emloyed by carrying of one wounded will be 5 out of battle.

        That all also assumes (although not specifically stated) an optimum hit (and kill) probability with a specific round. In simplified terms, the greater is the hit probability, less rounds is individual soldier required to carry and vice versa. Somebody have mentioned in this discussion “trigger discpline” that is also part of the equation. The trigger discipline raises with training and with inherent round plus gun capability.

        Just think of these issues transferred to times when combatants were equipped with repeaters. Did they have ‘hit probability’ capability? Did they have ‘trigger discipline’. Did they carry ‘sufficient amount’ of ammo? You bet they did – it was matter of survival.

      • W

        these weapons are not designed for long range patrols, but rather rapid assaults of counter-terrorism, counter-insurgency nature requiring specialized weaponry.

    • Nater

      I don’t know much about this round, but the .50 Beowulf doesn’t have much more energy than 7.62×51 NATO, but comes with a lot of downsides (recoil, muzzle blast, magazine capacity).

      These are niche weapons firing niche rounds. They’re probably great at checkpoints, decent as entry weapons, but I can’t think of many other uses for them.

      • Avery

        And supposedly, 200 yards is typically the effective range of a thumper rifle. Those big round bullets don’t travel very well, especially the power behind them curtailed due to the need to fit it into dimensions of the AR-15’s magazine well.

        However, I think TsKIB SOO and developing the cartridge and the rifle together, instead of stuffing that oversized round into an existing magazine well form factor.

      • Denny

        Hi Nater,

        as a matter of courtessy, I belive Avery has very good point here. This design is built from ground up (nothing to do with Groza rifle or AR15) and therefore provided to creators all necessary freedom. I can see similarity of this kind of device and its implication in comparison, let’s say with single cylinder big bore motorcycles. They are loved for the ‘thump’ of pure torque, if you will. This is much the same. Decent blub of lead (or lead-iron combination) is allways convincing enough. Just look why people adore so much .45ACP. Before Mauser-Lebel-Enfield ‘streamlined’ bullets from end of 19.century there were just ‘big’ bores and they worked. The developement spiral is making probably yet another spin.

  • El Duderino

    Looks like the Russians have no issues with the evil capitalist .338 Lapua Magnum or the not-so-official .300 Lapua Magnum judging by the picture.

    • RedCat (sorry, it’s russian)
      SV-338 by IzhMash.
      And also there is a new-founded russian commercial manufacturer ORSIS which have a good chance to get government contract. (russian again)
      So yes, we haven’t any issues with evil capitalist cartriges. THE ЯED BEAЯ IS AWOKEИ!

    • Lance

      The weapon probably for Russian police the Military has a semi auto SVD and the Bolt action SVS for military use. If adopted they probably be chambered for 7.62x54R or a new Russian Caliber.

  • Reverend Clint

    perfect entry gun for taking down chechens

    • Partizan1942

      And Georgians. 🙂

  • bikeguy24060

    Somewhere in the sleepy mountain town of Radford, Virginia Bill Alexander is saying ‘I fucking told you so!’

    • ragnarok220

      Wondering why Russian wanna call this thing “assault rifle”.

      • RedCat

        Yep, or so. The fact is, the russian language doesn’t make difference between “assault” and “automatic” rifles while the english language makes (I guess…). That’s why these words losing their sence or making confusions when being translated. This automat is called “shturmovoy” just to mark its unusual design, caliber and use. There is no any other fundamental purpose of that word.

      • RedCat

        Sorry, wrong place. I was talking to uberyeti.
        >”“Avtomat” is more like “automatic rifle” isn’t it?”

    • RedCat

      This is an issue of translating.
      “Avtomat” = “assault rifle”;
      “Shturmovoy avtomat” = “assault assault rifle”, or “onslaught assault rifle”, or something.
      In english it’s a quite bulky definition which does not matter after all. Just take it as is.

  • I recall reading, from an authoritative source, that many years ago at a big military exhibition somewhere in the Middle East, a visitor picked up a shoulder-fired anti-tank recoilless gun from a stand, pointed it out of a door, pressed the trigger – and destroyed a helicopter parked outside…

    They tend to be rather more careful at shows these days!

    • Reverend Clint

      figures that would happen in the middle east…

    • jdun

      That’s pretty funny if true.

    • GarryB

      A bit disturbing if true, but then I have heard about a similar situation where an M72 LAW training rocket was on display instead of an inert dummy and when someone eventually pushed the trigger to fire it it went off. Being a training round it didn’t do any actual physical damage, but the man standing behind him apparently died of a heart attack.

  • William C.

    Outside of hunting I do question what is the use for such a caliber? Scaring the crap out of whoever is being shot at I suppose.

    • JMD

      Pretty sure the idea isn’t just to scare people, but to put .50″ caliber holes in them. It would probably make a good light anti-materiel weapon for tearing down cover, and stopping non-compliant vehicles at checkpoints.

      All the same things .50 Beowulf was created for.

      There are better cartridges for hunting, and less dangerous ways to frighten people…

      • sasha istratii

        Avtomat – rifle that kan shoot in automatik mode.
        Shutrmovoi avtomat – an automatik rifle,what have an easy weight,and kan be karried by a single man,small size that kan be uses in assault operations. for ie:OTS 14 groza,AKSU 74.And how you must be observed that russians and Nato had different views about weapons.Russians klasify weapons by generations:1st:bigger kaliber(>7.62),unnefektive automatik fire,heavy,and with low akuraky.2nd:smaller kaliber(named “intermediary” between pistol and makhinegun bullets)IE:5.56 nato or 5.45,who is more efektive in automatik mode.
        Amerikans payed atention on akuraky(m16 and it derivates),soviets on automatik fire(ak 47)(i dunno how to translate this,but the idea is “supressive fire”).Onke kamed 5.56 kaliber,soviets khanged their way,and kreated a more akkurate weapon(ak74,aek 971,etk) under their own 5.45(now it still a theme of konflikt”why soviets just didn’t adoptet 5.56 and kreated their own parrody on .223 rem(trying to esitate repetations)).and after is a big story,i told what is was needed and sorry for my “k”,my latin key on kb is broken.

    • ragnarok220

      According to the Russians: “This weapon is intended for special units of FSB which operate in urban environment against heavily armed and organized gangsters and terrorists.”

  • Bloody HELL! I want one!!!!!

  • Carson

    Not CA legal. Damn

    • John Doe

      It’s specifically aimed at the .50 BMG. Other .50 rounds are legal, I believe.

  • John Doe

    What I’m interested in is that 4.5x19mm round. It’s too small to be a PDW round, so it’s clearly for hunting those damn Russian squirrels.

  • One question I have – or maybe it’s a concern… There seems to be a trend among infantry units where there is a creeping diversity of infantry weapons. What with carbines and standard length rifles, then DMRs, sniper rifles and then anti-material and long range sniper rifles…

    While there seems to be a right-minded attitude that our troops should get the right tool for the job, is there perhaps a culture of over-valuing exotic weapons? Who decided what is actually needed and useful?

    • Lance

      Not a problem since it proves Infantry is adapting to every threat it arises from Snipers and IEDs like in Afghanistan to traditional infantry fights.

      • Lance

        The fact is these weapon is meant for replacing the AK-74M for infantry. This is for Counter terrorist and sea warfare (ship boarding) Ops.

    • W

      this trend is due in no small part to the increasingly diverse roles and missions in which infantry units are deployed. I don’t believe the days of massed front lines are over, however, given 21st century warfare, armies require increasing specialized tools and equipment to deal with the irregular tasks they are burdened with. More than ever, infantry are required to conduct specialized missions and Russia is slowly, if painfully, realizing this. Given the increasing role OMON, Alfa and Vympel units are playing in this new age of counter-terrorism and small unit taskings, the introduction of newer weaponry is necessary for their success.

  • rog

    I have had a .50 Beowulf. Easy to shoot. Only it is very very loud.
    neat to see all this new meat coming out

  • GarryB

    The term Avtomat is the name of a weapon (Federovs Avtomat of 1916) and doesn’t actually mean automatic at all.

    That is why Soviet and Russian assault rifles have Avtomat as part of their designations… the AKM is a modernised (M) version of Kalashnikovs (K) Avtomat (A). What we in the west call an assault rifle, the Russians refer to as Avtomats… just like Hoover and Electrolux are two famous early brands of vacuum cleaner, so it is quite common in the west to talk about Hoovering the carpet or Luxing the carpet… no matter what brand of vacuum cleaner you happen to be using. It is a good example of brands in normal language.

    The fact that the Germans didn’t invent the term assault rifle till WWII hasn’t changed the fact that the Russians have applied a Russian weapon name to all weapons of that type in their service.

    I am no language expert but I would think a better translation of ASh, would be “storming assault rifle” or “Urban combat assault rifle”.

    • A small cultural difference between the US and UK: if you talked about “hoovering the carpet” everyone in the UK would know what you meant, because that’s exactly what we say. If you talked about “luxing the carpet” everyone would be completely baffled – I’ve never heard of that. Lux is the name of a brand of soap…

      • GarryB

        That is my point though Tony, it is a cultural thing, to someone who has never heard of the brand Electrolux hears their parents call doing the vacuuming Luxing and they simply think that is what it means too.

        It is a situation where the name of a product or item turns over time into a verb, or in the case of Avtomat the reference to a class of small arm as it was the first most common example of one.

        Another example is the Thompson SMG that was so publicly popular to the general public because for a period police and gangsters were shown in movies and TV with them that in the west the nickname Tommygun is used for all SMGs.

        The problem for the west has been largely that they really didn’t know much about Federov and his early work on whole families of weapons, so when the Germans came out with a Storm rifle they quickly named it the first assault rifle… and while firearms experts like yourself and Max describe the Federov Avtomat as being an early, if not completely perfect example of an assault rifle (some claim it is not because of strict definitions that require cheap stamped metal manufacture and custom designed ammo, but I prefer the simple description of “An attempt to combine the long range accuracy and power of a battle rifle with the short range firepower of a SMG”. The word attempt being key as it doesn’t need to be a perfect combination).

        The irony is that the Federov Avtomat model 1916 used Japanese rifle ammo of 6.5 x 50.6mm that could probably be loaded to very similar performance to the “new” 6.5mm Grendel… so the first got it pretty close… though totally by accident.

    • RedCat

      >>and doesn’t actually mean automatic at all

      It does. Believe me 🙂 “Automat” origins from Latin as well as “automatic”, it’s a general-use word. It can stand for everything, not for weapons only. Automatic transmission, program-controlled washing machine, automatic circuit breaker… Any stuff able to function automatically. So when Fedorov invented the light handheld full-auto rifle we called it “automat” like the rest automatic things.
      When russian guy says: “hey, man, come here, I have an automat!” – don’t lose your courage, maybe he just wants to show you his new coffee machine 🙂

      • GarryB

        Before 1916 what was the word in Russia for automatic?

        Do you not think it might have become Avtomat after the creation and naming of the Avtomat?

        The Russian military seem to believe Avtomat means assault rifle… the SVT, the SKS, the SVD are all automatic rifles but don’t have avtomat in their designation. Ahh, I hear you say… what about the AVS-36 and other full automatic versions of the Simonov and Tokarev battle rifles…
        Avtomaticheskaya Vintovka Simonova.

        On the other hand the weapons that are considered assault rifles like the weapon above ASh-12, AKM, AK-74, AS, AN-94, 9A-91… the only exceptions are the AEK weapons where A is part of the brand name so you get SMGs like Kashtan with an AEK abbreviation, but the A does not stand for Avtomat.

        BTW how many automatic things were common in pre 1916 Russia?
        They had belt fed machineguns in service that didn’t have Avtomat in their designation either.

        I am no language expert, but they seem to have only applied the term Avtomat to weapons in the west that would be considered assault rifles, and the first weapon they applied that term to was the Federov Avtomat of 1916.

      • RedCat

        >>Before 1916 what was the word in Russia for automatic?
        Is the year 1839 convincing enough?

        >>Do you not think it might have become Avtomat after the creation and naming of the Avtomat?

        Ok, no problem.
        Next iteration: how did Fedorov found this word? Just imagined from nothing? Or what?

        >>the SVT, the SKS, the SVD are all automatic rifles but don’t have avtomat in their designation

        Because all of mentioned things are self-loading.

        >>BTW how many automatic things were common in pre 1916 Russia?

        Madsen, for example. But honestly, it wasn’t common.

        >>I am no language expert, but they seem to have only applied the term Avtomat to weapons in the west that would be considered assault rifles

        Don’t try to be more russian then russian.
        “Аntiaircraft avtomat 70-K”
        “30-mm six-barreled antiaircraft avtomat AO-18”

  • GarryB

    In this context the word Avtomat predating its use as an automatic weapon doesn’t prove much. The words Assault and Rifle predate its association with the Stg-44 by decades.

    Also when put through a modern translator the Avtomat in the advert for the 6 barrel weapon known in the west as a gatling gun (which is another example where an early example becomes synonymous with all that follow) disappears:

    Where is automatic in the above page? It says “30mm six barrel antiaircraft gun.”

    When refering to small arms it has a special meaning, and no it is clear the word is not unique to Federovs Avtomat, but it has become linked with assault rifles in Russian Army terminology.

    BTW automatic is self loading technically. Self loading means automatic… ie the opposite of manual loading. The term for continuous automatic fire is full automatic, though single shot self loading is often specified as semi automatic.

    If you want to distinguish them as being not automatic then the fully automatic versions of those rifles (the simonov and tokarev WWII semi auto rifles, and the modern Dragunov sniper semi auto rifle all have full auto capable variants) that add an A to their designation, but it is not Avtomat… because they are not assault rifles. Machineguns in Russia including the LMG versions of assault rifles don’t have avtomat in their designation either because although they are automatic, they are not deemed to be assault rifles.
    Avtomat in a weapon designation for small arms in Russia means assault rifle.

    RPK is semi and fully automatic, but is not an assault rifle… it is a light machinegun.

    It is the same with the word gun… in common western language it can mean all sorts of different types of weapons from pistol, SMG, rifle, machinegun, right up to 152mm artillery and beyond. In military a gun is generally artillery… a rifle is a rifle, a SMG is a SMG etc etc.

    • RedCat

      When use google translator, many things dissapear 🙂

      >>RPK is semi and fully automatic, but is not an assault rifle… it is a light machinegun.

      Show it to blonde housewife and she’ll call it automat 🙂

      • GarryB

        I am sure even a brunette housewife, or even a black haired male accountant might call it an automatic.

        A professional soldier calls a rifle a gun during basic training and they will be marching around the parade ground for a couple of hours till they realise their mistake.

        The Russian military defines an Avtomat as an assault rifle like weapon… even the A in the APS Stechkin machine pistol does not stand for Avtomat, yet it is automatic too.

        In military terms an Avtomat is an assault rifle and is applied by the military in no other terms. Equally other automatic weapons are not called Avtomat even if it does just mean automatic to most people.

        I would suggest it is the same as 122mm rockets being called Grads to prevent confusion with 122mm artillery shells because they are different things that are not compatible and they are given very different names to make that clear.

        As far as I and the Russian military are concerned Avtomat means Assault Rifle… a new class of small arm that was created in 1916 by Federov, which they and I consider the first example of assault rifles… from a much shorter barrel than normally used for the Japanese rifles it was designed for the performance of the 6.5 x 50.6mm Arisaka ammo is very comparable to the 7.62 x 39mm round… a 120 grain bullet traveling at just under 680m/s the AK round is actually slightly more powerful with a similar weight bullet at about 35 m/s faster at the muzzle, though the smaller calibre round might retain velocity more efficiently and at battle ranges there might not be that much difference in actual performance.
        There is a WWII propaganda film by Frank Capra or someone called “Why we fight” for the US public that has a brief glance of an Avtomat being fired by a Russian soldier… they had plenty of Japanese ammo for them.

  • Rangefinder

    Has there been a revolver designed for rimless bottleneck rifle cartridges?

    • GarryB

      Are you wondering if rimless cartridges can be used in revolvers because you suspect those large 12.7 x 55mm rounds might be used in that huge revolver?

      9x18mm Makarov rounds are used in a few revolvers and they have the same rimless design as the 2.7 x 55mm, though obviously they are much smaller, they use small clips to position them in the cylinder and to allow them to be extracted.

      It wouldn’t work in a fixed cylinder revolver like a Nagant, the cylinder would have to be loadable with half moon clips (of 3 rounds each normally), or perhaps a full moon clip of 5 rounds.

      Especially with the subsonic rounds designed for the Vychlop VSSK that would be one thumper of a revolver… very specialist.

  • Rangefinder

    Thank you, I was not sure. Could make for a nice revolver carbine. With the development of polymer cased cartridges, I wonder if manufacturers are considering combining the moon clip with the cartridges.

    • GarryB

      In terms of a carbine they could either do what they did with the Nagant revolver where the cylinder moves forward and closes the gap between the cylinder and the barrel on firing or a simple sheet metal shield to cover the gap between the front of the cylinder and the start of the barrel to prevent material injuring the shooter of a carbine.

      It would not be ideal in a revolver carbine, I would suggest the rifle above would be the best answer as it has better capacity, easier loading and teh bullpup arrangement maximizes barrel length while keeping the weapon very short.

      The Revolver would certainly compliment the rifle, though I think the Revolver optimised for subsonic heavy slugs with a suppressor built in to the barrel would be good for close in quiet self protection, while the rifle for longer ranged shooting/hunting… sharing ammo being a plus, and the fact that both rounds would be powerful enough to take down dangerous game.

    • GarryB

      Should point out that if you look carefully that the barrel is actually aligned with the bottom cylinder in the revolver, unlike in western revolvers where the barrel is normally aligned with the top cylinder.

      This will lower the line of recoil to reduce muzzle flip and make it easier to fire rapidly.

  • Rosco

    .50 caliber projectiles at what are probably 5.45 mm matching velocities with the light bullet loads, could well be unequalled when it comes to close range small arm unhealthiness.

    • GarryB

      When they talk about light and heavy bullets for these 12.7 x 55mm rounds I very much doubt the light bullets will be 5.45mm calibre rounds light in weight and am almost certain they wont be anywhere near 5.45mm calibre rounds speed.

      The heavy rounds are mentioned to be up to 1170 grain… compared with a 5.45mm calibre bullet at 60 grain or so.

      I would expect the heavy bullets would be subsonic which means less than about 310m/s compared with 5.45mm rounds doing about 900m/s.

      The light bullets they talk about are probably still quite heavy in terms of bullet weight… probably 300-400 grains at least though likely travelling at maybe 600m/s or so… which is quite a thumper.

      Needless to say 1170 grain bullets is 14.5 x 114mm HMG range projectile weight and as you can tell from the numbers it has more than twice the shell case length to get a perhaps slightly lighter bullet up to about 1km/s.

  • paarth

    the best assault rifle by the best army force
    the russian army
    but can anybody tell what is its fire rate

    • GarryB

      This is not really a replacement for a standard assault rifle like an AK-74.

      This weapon is rather more likely to be used in situations where keeping quiet, but still being able to take out enemy troops wearing solid body armour is necessary.

      Think of this weapon not as an AK-74M replacement, but as a potential replacement for the AS and VSS suppressed 9 x 39mm calibre weapons.

      The advantages include more compact design due to the bull pup layout, but also better performance with heavier rounds of larger calibre.

      • It’s not really even a replacement for the AS VAL and VSS.

        Both the VAL/VSS and the ASh-12/VSK-94 combo have their place, just like the SVD and SVDK do. They’re pairings.

        It’s just that the ASh-12 and VSK-94 are for when you want to be quiet [i]and[/i] be positive you can deal with high-grade body armour and small vehicles. The VAL/VSS are just for being quiet and the SVDK is just for dealing with body armour.

      • Tom J

        Imagine how scary that would be though if every Russian (in their military) was shooting 12.7mm rounds at you though!

  • Tom J

    I love the idea of this cartridge!!!!

  • korobov

    9×39 is very good and powerful enough for certain things. asval and as are phenomenal weapons garry, so tskib ash is not going to replace them. i mean, have you watched tests of as/val ? perfect. this? i would select a team of 10 vityaz for storming posts. with this kind of firepower you can bring the house down. just chop it in half. hiding behind the walls? not an option. zdravstvujte tavarishi

  • Ole joe

    According to The Blaze the Ash-12 could be used against our fighting boys over seas. I would drop a hefty load in my britches if somone started unloading an Ash 12 my way

    • Cyberats

      The Ash-12 is what we need for our revolution here at home, if they sell it cheap enough. Our goons are armored and militarized, a weapon like this would demoralize them and thin their ranks.

  • Pico

    Can’t the russkies keep their booger hooks of the bang switches, for crying out loud?!?

  • That “tacticool” revolver may be a RSh-12 revolver (info on