CMMG AR15 Carbine Review

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NOTE: This product review was made possible by GunsForSale.com.  To get up-to-date information on where to find cheap CMMG carbines for sale, please visit GunsForSale.com.

CMMG has been in business since 2002. Jeff and John Overstreet own the company. Prior to 2002 they had regular jobs and traveled the gun show circuit selling gun related products as well as guns from FN and DPMS. They were doing so well with their part time gun show job they eclipsed their income from the day to day jobs they held.

After encouragement from family they opened CMMG. In the beginning they sold the same products they had at gun shows. Eventually they started up their own brand of rifles and accessories. When the time was right they hired engineers who helped design the brothers CMMG branded AR-15’s and accessories.

Going forward to this year CMMG has a rather large facility in the countryside outside of Fayette, Mo. They currently have thirty employees directly involved in assembly, special order rifles and shipping. They also have a separate area with two commercial Dillon reloading machines where they load all the commercial ammunition they sell. Of course many more employees are involved in manufacturing the AR15’s and accessories.

One thing most people don’t know is that CMMG makes all the components of the AR15 rifles they sell. The only exceptions are custom order rifles. If a customer orders a rifle with non-stock items these are purchased to complete the customers’ special order AR15.

CMMG also offers NFA compliant rifles. They are very good at helping the customer file the appropriate paperwork required by the government for SBR’s as well as suppressed AR’s. If you want it they help the customer pick components and ensure your legal with whichever configuration you choose.

Retail customers aren’t the only people CMMG works with. They have a pending military contract with the details being kept quiet until the press release.

There is also a retail facility in Columbia, Missouri that is independently owned. They carry only CMMG AR’s as well all of CMMG’s accessories for the AR. This business is called Black Rifle LLC, which is AR 15 heaven!

I’ve made several trips to the Fayette facility and it’s always been a pleasure to visit. The place is an absolute beehive of activity. I particularly enjoy watching the guys assemble new rifles especially custom orders. Everyone is always very friendly and put up with all my questions :):)

A couple of CMMG’s toys

One very popular accessory most people are familiar with is the .22 caliber conversion kit. Lately the .22 side of the business has been super busy.

The newest .22 conversions kit, the “India” model, is shown in the video below. Much improved over the original model.

The India kit addresses some earlier issues with the standard kit. They use a locking bolt to stabilize the chamber sleeve. The charging handle is also a solid piece with a narrow trough inside. Shells were getting stuck in the deep hollow of the charging handle causing a jam. This new version has a manual of arms like any AR with lockup after the last round fired etc.

CMMG India kit

If you prefer a complete .22 upper the Sierra is an excellent choice. It’s chambered in .22 LR with a 16” barrel in the WASP finish. If you’re not familiar with the WASP finish here is an information sheet from CMMG’s website.

CMMG Sierra complete .22 upper.

Weapons Armament Surface Protection

CMMGs WASP finish is a salt bath ferritic nitrocarburizing surface conversion process or more commonly referred to as nitriding. The nitriding conversion is applied to the barrel inside and out, along with the front sight base on our M4LE rifles and uppers. Nitriding offers improved wear, abrasion, and corrosion resistance when compared to hard chrome lining or phosphating. The benefits are not limited to only these attributes, nitriding also offers a lower coefficient of friction. Unlike chrome lining where the chrome is built up on the surface, nitriding converts the surface with out the risk of dimensional build up causing fitment and function issues. Nitriding is not an untested or unproven process; CMMG has been utilizing this process for over 2 years with our LE series of rifles. Similar processes have been used by European pistol manufactures to treat their barrels and slides for decades.

My Experience With CMMG AR’s

I’ve owned three CMMG AR-15’s. The first was a target setup with 18 inch barrel, match trigger, Magpul adjustable target stock and Leatherwood ART scope.

The second was a special order gun the customer never picked up. This one had a VLTOR Clubfoot buttstock, 14.5 inch barrel, Troy BUIS sights front and rear, two stage trigger, Tango Down grip and finally a Yankee Hill rail system. I only paid $899 as described from Black Rifle LLC.

My second CMMG Carbine

The third has a 16” barrel, CMMG rail system, Vortex flash suppressor, Magpul MOE grip, Rogers stock, two stage trigger and EoTech 516 Holosight, Grip Pod forward grip, Hoyt H-1 flashlight with strobe function, ARMS Swan sling and Laser-Lyte K-15 green laser.

Vortex Flash Suppressor

My third CMMG. A few extras attached for testing.

The extras I mentioned in the above pictures are from the Prezine Company LLC. This company manufactures gun accessories for various companies such as Safariland, Bill Rogers, Buffer Technologies etc. In the picture below is a magwell/grip made for the STRAC company.

The dual magazines are Magpul P-Mags mounted in an offset mag holder. These are permanently attached to the mag holder. It’s sold as an assembled unit. I may or may not continue to use the STRAC Grip. If I do continue using it I’ll use some skateboard tape to enhance the grip. These are new products which I’ll post prices on when available.

Now back to the rifles! I’ve owned probably fourteen assorted brands and configurations of AR’s from Colt, DPMS and Rock River to name a few. These CMMG’s are the equal of any I’ve owned in accuracy, quality of the parts and attention to the build. The cost for most standard model CMMG’s range from $800-$1100.

When I purchased the third CMMG rifle it came with a standard buttstock, rear BUIS, CMMG rail and Magpul MOE grip. Before I left Black Rifle I added the Vortex flash/sound suppressor and EoTech 516 Holosight. Black rifle always throws in a few goodies when you buy a rifle so two P-Mags with viewing window were added to the package.

Black Rifle also has a lot of respect for those who serve. Military members and Police Officers receive a 10% discount on all rifles. Cost not including the EoTech was right at $900.

Now I know there are many brands out there that have some very nice features as sold. The problem for the average shooter is they can be very high priced. A for instance would be the new VLTOR TS3 which sells for right at $2500. That’s a lot of money for just about anyone but for many of us it’s too much. I include myself in that group.

This is where medium priced brands like CMMG come into the picture. They aren’t super fancy rifles but they are very well made. The owner can also add whatever accessories they want to make a fine AR they should be proud to own.

There are several standard features that set the CMMG apart from other AR’s in this price range. They have M4 feed ramps standard. Also included in almost all CMMG’s is a two stage trigger which is very smooth and crisp. Most also have CMMG made rail systems.

Specifications

• Certified 4140 chrome-moly vanadium steel barrel
• 5.56×45 NATO chamber
• 1:7 Twist
• Two stage trigger
• WASP treated barrel, including the chamber, bore and under the front sight base
• A2 Flash hider installed with crush washer
• CMMG Rail System
• Forged M4 upper receiver is T marked and has M4 feed ramp cuts
• Semi Auto bolt carrier
• Forged lower receivers are RDIAS/RLL compatible
• Mil-spec fire control group with .154 diameter Pins
• Mil-spec .250 diameter take-down pins
• Mil-spec 6 position ribbed reinforced stock

Since purchasing my rifle I’ve added an MGI-Military buffer. I’ve tried pneumatic, and hydraulic buffers but just wasn’t satisfied with them. I noticed very little difference in recoil; not that an AR has all that much recoil. I shot a short video firing the rifle with the standard buffer and another video clip with the MGI buffer. Compared with the standard buffer then the MGI buffer the barrel barely moved. I could also feel the difference. If you go to the MGI website they have a short narrative explaining how this buffer works and the difference between this buffer and others.

The next item was the Laser Lyte K-15 green laser. To help readers see how the bright the Hoyt flashlight and laser are I made a short video posted below. This is not a tactical movement video. Rather a demonstration.

The last item was the Grip Pod. This thing is ugly no doubt about it but it sure does work well. It operates as a standard grip until you press a button on the front top, which ejects the twin legs providing a bi-pod. To retract it just grasp both legs and push up, which locks it, back into the body of the grip. There are two models. One is a law enforcement the other is military. The difference between the two is the LEO is all polymer while the military version has steel reinforced legs. The Grip Pod is now standard issue for the Army and Marine Corp.

This sums up the additions to my rifle. Many of you will set your AR up differently than mine of course. This is what makes the AR such a great rifle. There are no shortages of configurations allowing the shooter to adapt it to the owners preferences and or needs.

Range Time

I’ll keep this short. I have never had a malfunction of any type no mater which ammunition or magazine has been used. I currently have over 2000 rounds through this newer rifle. Accuracy is 1 MOA from a rest using a 1×4 power tactical scope. Some groups are sub MOA. This rifle as well as the other two is certainly more accurate than the shooter. Really this is on a par with most quality AR’s regardless of brand.

Conclusion

I’ve been very satisfied with these rifles and wouldn’t have a problem recommending them to anyone in the market for an AR. The prices are very reasonable making this brand even more attractive.

I also plan on adding a 6.8 SPC for hunting. This is a very effective round with considerably more punch than the 5.56. CMMG also manufactures this upper.

Even though the AR has been in service for almost 50 years it will be around for many years to come.

Happy Shooting!

Related

Phil White

Retired police officer with 30 years of service. Firearms instructor and SRU team member. I still instruct with local agencies. My daily carry pistol is the tried and true 1911. I’m the Associate Editor and moderator at TFB. I really enjoy answering readers questions and comments. We can all learn from each other about our favorite hobby!


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  • http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/ Steve (The Firearm Blog)

    Great review, thanks Phil.

    I would LOVE a 6.8mm SPC rifle for hunting, either bolt action of AR-15 in a suitable hunting configuration, but I have been thinking of going the .300 BLK route instead.

    • Phil White

      Steve,

      I want to shoot one of those .300 BLK’s. I seem to miss them when they have them on the plants range. I almost bought a 6.8 SPC upper at Black Rifle a few weeks ago. So much to buy no lottery win yet:-)

  • DurgaMDK

    I have a piston cmmg AR with the Daniel defense rail. I also have a 7.5″ piston upper for my pistol AR with ( I’m in California so its my only sbr option). Both ar totally reliable and have never failed me. I have the first gen .22 bcg insert, an awesome training option. Right now I’m waiting for the piston .308 to become available and ill be a happy camper for sure. I couldn’t express how much I sell cmmg to all my friends looking to buy their first AR15.

    • Phil White

      DurgaMDK,

      I feel the same way about them. Best AR for the money in my experience with them the last six years. I have looked at the .308 piston they have been working on. I’m can’t say for sure when it will be out. By the end of this year possibly first of next year. They also have a lower available now in .308 that uses G3 mags. Here is the link for the new lower available now to pair with the also available upper. http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/item/CMMG-MK-8-.308-Lower-with-Carbine-Busttstock-1449

      Enjoy!

  • DurgaMDK

    Actually Phil, the standard gas blow back .308 is out now available thru cdnn.com for about 1500$ its comes in black, tan, and od green. Download the catalog and check it out. Also there is a cmmg stared thread about it with a lot of pics on ar15.com like I said before I’ve been very patient waiting for the piston version.

    • Phil White

      DurgaMDK,

      Oh ok they sure look very similar. For others who may read this here is the CDNN catalog link http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/cdnn/CDNN2011-3.pdf

      The piston shouldn’t be very far behind. If you want I can call my contact over there and try to get a closer release date for the piston model. In fact I’ll do that tomorrow.

  • Andrew (European Correspondent)

    How is 4140 “mil-spec certified”? By definition, 4140 steel does not contain the exact metallurgical content required to meet the standards of MIL-B-11595-E.

    • Phil White

      Andrew,

      You’ll need to call them for an explanation of this 4140 grading. 660-248-2293 ask for sales which I think is option 4 if I remember correctly. Since I’m calling them tomorrow I’ll ask and post here since you’re overseas.

  • Andrew (European Correspondent)

    Phil, I am absolutely done with communicating with CMMG in any way, shape, or form. They’re likely to be as childish and insulting as the last time I spoke with them.

    The question was simple – either it is steel that would be considered “mil-spec,” or it is not. The description provided is an oxymoron.

    • Phil White

      Andrew,

      Hum, I’ve never had any problems with communication with them. I’ll call for you as I said from the last post and let you know. Email posted in answer to your question——

    • Phil White

      Andrew,

      Here is CMMG’s answer to your question: It’s from Jeff Overstreet one of the owners.
      “Our barrels are certified military spec 4150 CMV steel and have always been this way” The only exceptions are:

      SST barrels
      WASP barrels (4140 steel).

      HTH

      Jeff

  • DurgaMDK

    Thanks Phil, id appreciate that very much. I do have a love of there pistons. :)

    • Phil White

      DurgaMDK,

      Well sir I asked about the status of the .308 piston a little while ago. They are still working with prototypes. There will be a delay. The problem they are running into is a common one and that is bolt tilt. They are also running into excessive wear of the lugs at the 4 and 8 o’clock position. These issues will have to be worked out before they will start manufacturing them. They want to make sure they have it right before they go any further.
      Before the rifles are released they will start selling a piston kit. That’s after the current issues are resolved.

  • MarkM

    Since Euro production of barrels has been hammerforged and nitrided since the 1970′s, whether a AR builder uses 4140 or 4150 in an M4gery is essentially minor point. The American milspec is sadly out of date and very much substandard.

    I question the report that CMMG makes all it’s parts in-house. Being from Missouri, I’m aware they offer a good product – but forging platters and CNC finishing uppers and lowers, machining bolt carriers, and rifling barrels, too? Winding springs, making roll pins, and lathing flashhiders?

    A picture or two of the machinery extruding the trigger guards and cutting them to width would go a long way in clarifying that. I’d like to see how the winter trigger detent is staked.

    • Phil White

      MarkM,

      That’s just what they told me. The manufactoring facility is not in the same location. I seriously doubt they make all the pins. My understanding is they make the uppers,lowers, triggers, rails and all other major parts.

    • Phil White

      MarkM,

      I asked about coming out and taking pictures. That is not allowed even for employees. Trade secrets and all that I would imagine.

  • Hrachya Hayrapetyan

    Another thorough review made by Phil White ! Thanks!
    CMMG’s .22LR conversions are really great product…they are drop-in kits, nice and cheap for practicing and for new guys !

    • Phil White

      Hrachya,

      Thank you sir I’m glad you enjoyed it! I want to try one of the new India .22 conversions.

  • Micah

    The vortex flash suppressor is also a noise suppressor? I think not. And if it does suppress sound that would make it a class III item and subject to the $200 tax stamp, and all the ATF hoops that you need to go through to purchase a suppressor.

    Please don’t post misleading things like this on a well read internet blog. It causes the rest of us heartache when the ATF comes knocking wanting to charge us for having noise suppressing flash suppressors.

    • Phil White

      Micah,

      That’s what they claim. I doesn’t seem as loud as with a standard A2. I hesitated to include that in the review. I’m not sure how they make that statement but that’s what they say. All I can say is reduction rather than suppression?
      I would think there is some leeway on sound reduction. Below a a certain point we would be paying that $200.

      I just contacted Smith Enterprise and asked about the point you raised. They log all calls in on questions such as this. Apparently I got a new tech person. This what’s stated on the website. “Vortex G6A2 Sound Suppressor Capable Flash Eliminator
      The world’s best flash suppressor for the M16-AR15 family of firearms, now available for use with SEI Direct Connect (DC) Sound Suppressor. Threaded 1/2”x 28 x .625-.630±” thread depth. “

      I see where he got the incorrect information from. What the website means is the Vortex fits with a certain suppressor they make for the Vortex.

      I’ll change the article to reflect this new information. Thanks for bringing to my attention I appreciate it.

  • Hrachya Hayrapetyan

    Phil
    It would be great if you make a video after you try it !!!!!!!

    • Phil White

      Hrachya,

      I can certainly do that. It turned out pretty well with this review so why not:-) I just received a new Century model 39 AK with forged receiver and other enhancements Made In The USA! I’ll be glad to do a video on this one. I expect it will be a few weeks. I need to get at least 500 rounds downrange to ensure function and thorough review etc.

  • http://jumpthestack.blogspot.com jumpthestack

    I have a CMMG mid-length upper. I was happy with it with the exception of the fact that when I shot steel cased Wolf ammo, I got frequent failures to extract, requiring that the empty case be punched out with a cleaning rod. I had a gunsmith check the chamber, and despite being labeled 5.56, it was actually on the tight side for .223, so I had the chamber reamed to 5.56 for reliability. If you google CMMG tight chamber this is a common complaint.
    I’m aware that CMMG warns against using steel case ammo. That’s not the point; they advertised the barrel as something it’s not.

    • Phil White

      jumpthestack,

      Yep mine is also marked 5.56. On the left side of the magwell it list both calibers. CMMG did tell me they are 5.56 chambers.Now I haven’t had any problems using Wolf 55 grain but that doesn’t mean some like yourself haven’t. Granted I don’t shoot a lot of Wolf. I normally use Lake City 62 grain for chrono test.
      I’d call them if I were you and see what they have to say.

  • Andrew (European Correspondent)

    Phil,

    Interesting. Their website still claims that 4140 is mil-spec.

    Andrew

    • Phil White

      Andrew,

      True–I know as one reader said the Mil-Spec figures are out of date but still it has to be one or the other. I’ll do some more digging and let you know.

    • Phil White

      Andrew,

      Copy of answer to another reader:

      When I spoke with them a few minutes ago they had a fit over the website listing 4140 as mil-spec. It seems the webmaster messed up. I would’t want to be him when they confront him about it. They are going to correct that error.

  • JMD

    From the outside looking in, it looks like CMMG is trying to mislead the new guys who don’t really understand what they’re looking at. They see mil-spec and think it must be good, but simultaneously they don’t understand that 4140 doesn’t meet the mil-spec for barrel steel.

    It could be intentional, it could be an accident, it could even just be an error on the part of the person who builds and maintains their website. I don’t know and won’t guess, but it does look bad.

    • Phil White

      JMD,

      When I spoke with them a few minutes ago they had a fit over the website listing 4140 as mil-spec. It seems the webmaster messed up. I would’t want to be him when they confront him about it. They are going to correct that error.

  • Sandwichy

    It’s not a clip, it’s a magazine. It’s not skateboard tape, It’s grip tape!

    • Phil White

      Sandwichy,

      Your right the only clip is on the M1 Garand. Grip tape–hum ok:-) I get freebie scraps of tape from the local skateboard shop.

  • Sandwichy

    I’ve been looking at their piston upper and considering getting one.

    • Phil White

      Sandwichy,

      I looked them over pretty closely when I bought this one. I’d like to have one but I decided to just stick with the old tried and true system for now. You can get one with a standard front military sight or a low profile. The cost is the same I believe.

  • jdun1911

    The new .22lr conversion kit is expensive. I looked up the price and it’s over $300. Impressive but beyond my firearm budget for that kind of item.

    My cousin bought the old CMMG when it came out 3 years ago IIRC. He had around 40k through it and the end cracked. We knew it going to crack sooner or later because of how they did the welding. It still work tho.

    My Ceiner kit that I bought 4-5 years ago from MidwayUSA IIRC have about the same rounds count but did not crack due to how they did the welding. The only thing that I replaced is the extractor spring because it wore out.

    • Phil White

      jdun1911,

      I know Black Rifle sells those for $349. The .22 upper from CMMG sells for $349 from the same store. It really is a matter of preference which one someone will want. Since the upper is chambered for .22 LR and the price is the same my choice would be the upper. It will take about the same time to change out and you’ll have a real .22 barrel.

  • Lance

    CMMG is a good company and Ive liked there craftsmanship on there mags and ARs. They are study and have good ideas for mags and accessories. For all AR users DO NOT USE WOLF AMMO! I seen guns jam and mags jam with that stuff if you got a AR stay with brass cased ammo low powered wolf dosnt work.

    As per noise a M-4 and a A2 only have a very minor difference only SBRed ARs have a major noise difference. The Only real advantage a 20inch AR has is better bullet velocity and long range accuracy.

    • Phil White

      Lance,

      Using Wolf will cancel your warranty with CMMG. CMMG says the steel case is harder on the extractor and chamber wear is increased. Your certainly right on the noise issue. An SBR in say an 11″ barrel is much louder than even a 16″.

  • Ken

    I love the idea of the G3 magazine 308 lower, but I have a problem: I don’t own a 1/8th End Mill, whatever that is, and I don’t want my 308′s feed reliablility to depend on my dremel skills. In fact, I don’t want my dremel skills anywhere near my 308′s feed reliability. Make an already modified upper and sell them as a pair, please!

    • Phil White

      Ken,

      One of the topics we talked about earlier today was a complete rifle just as you described. That’s still being considered so it may happen yet. Time will tell. The mags are sure cheaper by a lot! I don’t know this for a fact but CMMG may make those alterations for a buyer wanting this combination.

  • DurgaMDK

    Thanks for the details Phil. You can tell them to take there time with the .308 seeing as I’m about to have a baby girl on my hands they have 5-7 years to get it right before I have her shooting it.

    Sandwichy- buy a piston upper. Do it. I clean the bolt head on the bcg the rest is clean on the inside. Even after a few years of shooting it.

    To all- NEVER USE WOLF OR ANY STEEL CASE AMMO!!!!!!! Using cheep ammo doesn’t out way the risk of replacing your weapon or injuries. I have seen and personally know the risk involved in using it.

    • Phil White

      DurgaMDK,

      Hey congratulations on your soon to arrive new Daughter! Nothing fulfills your family life like kiddos:-)

      You’re very welcome–I’m always glad to help with any information I can provide.

  • jdun1911

    If your AR doesn’t work with Wolf than something wrong with it and needs to be fix.

  • Sandwichy

    @Phil White There are two ARs I want. One is the Century C-15 Sporter which is a copy of the Vietnam style, and then I want to build a more modern interpretation (Flat top piston upper, glows in the dark, supports Android apps.) Then I’ll have an example of both in my collection.
    One thing though, I think it’s about time somebody made an AR that can shoot anything you put through it! That’ll really up the ante in the AR vs. AK arena!!
    I’m looking forward to your Century 39 review. Just giving you a hard time about the grip tape!

    • Phil White

      Sandwichy,

      LOL—I knew that:-) Century sells a good number of those C-15′s. It doesn’t seem there are to many companies making them anymore. In fact my first AR was a Colt in the old Vietnam configuration.

    • Phil White

      Sandwichy,

      I’m thinking the AK 39 review will be around Oct. 1 At least the first week of Oct.. I’ve got my 1000 rounds of ammo coming for the test:-)

  • Sid

    Phil,

    If you have an opportunity to give CMMG feedback…

    I am looking mostly for piston uppers. The CMMG website does not allow a customer to search by that feature. I have spent 25 years dealing with direct impingement and am ready to embrace the newer technology. If CMMG wants to win over some customers, they may want to consider making it easier to search the website for those of us looking for piston uppers.

    • Phil White

      Sid,

      I’ll be glad to do that for you. As soon as I get an answer I’ll pass it along or ask them to. I just emailed them with your request along with your email. If you want to email them directly send an email to ([email protected])
      Let me know if there is anything else I can help with.
      Here is the contact information also:
      Telephone: 660-248-2293

      Extensions:

      Sales: 4
      Tech Support: 5
      NFA Sales and Questions: 6
      Customer Service: 7

  • Lance

    The 3 key guns for a good AR collection are a SP-1 or C-15A1 for the Vietnam era-80s M-16A1 style weapon a Colt AR-15A2 or A2 style for 80-pressent and a M-4 or M-16A4 for today’s top rifles. The C-15 is a nice weapon but it has a A2 lower and pistol grip so if you have one for historical looks you’ll have to get a new lower and pistol grip for it.

    As for wolf ammo Jdum1911 I agree with you 90% of the time BUT I found wolf ammo too low powered for use in a AR-15 the laquired and powder make way way too much filth for the weapon. The only weapon to shoot wolf .223 well is the Ruger Mini-14. You can get manufactured Lake City or get Remington UMC ammo which is just as priced as wolf and works far better. I also say save and by M-193 Ball ammo.

    • Phil White

      Lance,

      The only problem I noticed recently was a lot of Wolf that had the lacquer melted off which made the cases very rough and even had a bit of rust on some cases. I’ve never seen that before but then again Tul-Ammo purchased Wolf.

    • Phil White

      Lance,

      Another one I like is the Vietnam era CAR15 or XM177. Short barrel with a long flash suppressor. I think those suppresser’s are about six inches long. I believe those are A-1′s.

  • Chase

    Thank you very much for this review. It was very informative.

    • Phil White

      Chase,

      It’s my pleasure and I’m very glad you found it informative.

      Thank you sir!

  • Sandwichy

    @jdunn1911
    I have little experience with the AR platform but I’ve heard the same thing. Problems with steel case ammo can be cured by a little tuning. What’s your experience with that, did you get your rifle worked on?

    • Phil White

      Sandwichy,

      One thing you can do is open a box and see if the cases are dull from the laquer melting as well as some rust. if so move on to something else. If you have difficulty with the bolt short stroking buy some of the extra long pipe cleaners used to clean the gas tube. A lot of people never clean these tubes for some reason. A lot of crud can build up in there cutting down on pressure and slowing the bolt down. I also use Birchwood Casey Gun Scrubber and spray it down the tube letting it run down and into the barrel. Then clean the barrel normally after drying the tube with those cleaners. You don’t have to spray the Birchwood Casey very often. I use it every 500 rounds or so depending on the ammo used.

  • Sandwichy

    @Lance, Thanks for the info, I’ll look into the details. As long as I have that triangular fore-end I’ll be happy.
    @Sid, I searched Gunbroker for “piston AR upper” or something similar. Last time I looked they only had 2 listed. I don’t know why I’m telling you this but if you beat me to it, then so be it.

    • Phil White

      Sandwichy, Sid

      You can also call http://www.blackriflellc.com/ since they have a ton of piston rifles and uppers. 573-256-0130. They will ship to your FFL dealer.

  • Lance

    I agree over the Lacquer But the powder they use is dirty and isnt high pressure enough to work the action well

    • Phil White

      Lance,

      It is dirty but you know which companies powder is almost as bad?? Winchester white box from Wal-Mart. Why Wal-Mart? Wal-Mart has enough buying power to have Winchester use a different mix of powder than you get at your local gun shop. That’s another reason they can sell it so cheap.

  • jdun1911

    Sandwichy,

    All my AR’s 8 completed IIRC have been tested and able to fire wolf without a problem.

    Yes it’s dirty and yes it is low power but any good AR should be able to handle it.

    You do not need to clean the gas tube. The gas tube will clean itself. If you’re going to clean the gas tube might as well buy a new one.

    I rarely clean my AR. My friend kids dump a bunch of white lithium grease inside my main lower. Didn’t clean it, didn’t care. That was over three years ago and there still plenty of grease inside the lower. It’s very dirty both upper and lower. Still work fine.

  • Lance

    Ive shot Winchester military 5.56mm ammo no real problems. The powder may be messy but it give full power for the bullet and working the action. Wolf doesn’t.

    @ Phil

    XM are fun too but very noisy. I haven’t seen to many to spec XMs in a long time check out retro black rifle web site shows all pre 1983 M-16 and carbines from Vietnam till just before the adoption M-16A2 ARs. Colt and Scultzen Gun Works (Olympic Arms after 1987) are they only AR makers who made true to spec XM-177E1 and E2 carbines commercially.

    • Phil White

      Lance,

      The Winchester military 5.56 is good ammo. It’s the cheap Wal-Mart stuff that gives me fits. XM’s are loud. I can’t remember the last time I saw a real Colt XM. Back in the early 80′s maybe. I’d hate to see the price of one these days!
      I don’t know if this is 100% true but I’ve been told there will be no more Wolf ammo it will all be labeled Tul-Ammo.

  • http://suburbansdomain.blogspot.com/ Suburban

    I’d love to see a video tour of CMMGs manufacturing plant. They claim that they make all their parts, but I’ve heard from several former employees that they only buy from suppliers and then assemble the parts. I know that my CMMG rimfire mag is identical to a Black Dog Machine magazine, except for the color.

    Is there Wolf lacquered case ammo available again? I thought all the newer stuff was polymer coated. Except for being lower powered than military ammo, I haven’t heard complaints about Wolf in a while.

    • Phil White

      Suburban,

      These may have been old laquer covered rounds I just don’t know. This has only happened since Tul-Ammo bought them out back around the first of this year. Now whether Tul uses the old method I haven’t been able to find out yet.
      I’d love to get a tour of the CMMG manufacturing facility. They keep things pretty close though. As far as the Fayette facility I’ve been there several times but again no pictures allowed. There are two halves to the plant and I haven’t seen the second half. All I can say is it’s noisy!! Suburban I really wish I could get a complete tour but it’s just not going to happen after several request. I just have to take their word for it.

    • Phil White

      Suburban,

      I just got the information I’ve been after for some time. I spoke with Lisa at Tul Ammo and they have no affiliation with any other ammo company and have not purchased Wolf. Tul does use Polymer coating now to reduce rust and the case covering wearing off.
      Bear, Wolf and Tul are all separate companies. This is just another Internet rumor.

    • Phil White

      Suburban,

      One last bit of information. Wolf advised me that all but 5% of the ammunition is polymer covered but there is some laquer covered sold at special pricing.

  • Andy

    I was wondering if u can put piccatiny rails on the ar 15 free floating bull barrels. Thanx

    • Phil White

      Andy,

      Normally any AR has some method of attaching rails even if they are short ones for attaching lights, sights etc. I’ll email you so if you can send a pic I’ll be able to tell a bit better.

    • Phil White

      Andy,

      I spoke with Jordan at CMMG and he told me that there really is no way to add a rail to that tube. The only way I know of would be to have a gunsmith drill it to fit your accessory. Jordan suggested the best way to do it is replace the tube you have with a free float full rail rifle length tube. I actually have the same rifle as you with the exception my barrel isn’t chromed.
      Prices vary a great deal so a little online shopping may be in order. Here is one tube http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=249

      Some brands are in the $150 price range while the one I linked to is $250. He said for sure use a rifle length free float. Some of these are two piece tubes while others are one piece which takes a bit more work to attach. I would definitely call whichever company you decide on and describe what you have so you get the correct tube that’s the easiest to install.

      Take care,
      Phil

  • Andy

    Thank you very much for the information, I think I found a free floating rail at ar15depot.com. I have tried to get ahold of them but keep getting answering machine. Guess ill keep trying. Thank you

  • http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/09/19/cmmg-ar15-carbine-review/ Marty

    Hello sir and thank you for the good info. I am looking to get a 22″ bull barrel complete upper from CMMG. It has a 1/9 twist and for distance I have heard that a 1/8 is better. Your thoughts on the twist rate and the quality of the bull barrel from CMMG?

    Marty

  • Freddy

    I just read on their web site that they will not warranty their uppers if you shoot reloads !!! Whats with that ?? I have shot reloads for years, And shoot them all the time in my Bushmaster that didn’t have any such thing about not warranty their uppers for reloads. I would not have a rifle that you cant reload ammo for !! Sounds like CMMG don’t build a safe upper !! I almost bought one and their dealer never said anything about reloads. Plus i was told that CMMG sold some upper’s to their dealers and told them that they would not under cut their dears price and then undercut them about a $100.00 an upper. Sounds like a bad company to me !! And if they will not warranty their uppers for reloads, You need to think about it. Sounds like they are unsafe !!! I’ll pass !! Glad i found this out before i bought one, Everyone needs to tell people this !! No warranty on reloaded ammo !!! Never heard of that !!!!

    • John

      When I first read your comment it sort of made sense. Then I started researching other manufacturers, and as of yet I’m not able to find ANY that allow reloaded ammunition to be used in their weapons, and not void the warranty. All the warranties I’ve viewed specifically state that the use of hand loaded, or reloaded ammunition will void the warranty. That’s coming from Arma-lite, Colt, Rock River, etc. So I think your point is not a valid one, as every company that I’ve seen so far says EXACTLY the same thing that CMMG states in their warranty. After re-reading your comment it comes off as more of a bias against CMMG for some other reason, and that you just don’t like them. That’s fine, you don’t have to like them, but please refrain from posting misleading comments. If you state “I would not have a rifle that you cant reload ammo for !!” then you clearly will not own an AR of any kind, nor probably any other weapon, as every company I have looked at states the same thing. If you do own a weapon, then you should read your own warranty, as I’m sure it will state the same thing.

    • john

      the reloaded ammo thing is some thing they will not cove some thing that they have no control over, most of my guns have never fired a factory round, I have had warrenty repairs done on 2 of them over the years but have never loaded over the manual listed max and never blew up one from over pressure

  • New MK-4 guy

    I just bought a CMMG MK-4 and would like to change out the plastic forearm to a quad rail. I can’t seam to find someone who makes one for this model.

    Also how do I tell if the stock is “mil-spec” or commercial spec?

    Thanks!

    • dlr-14

      Where you able to find a good rail that fit? I just bought the same model and am looking to put one on too.

    • Steve Condra

      Check out Blackhawk! For quad rails. Great look and fit on my CMMG.

  • mark john

    CMMG AR15 Carbine is good gun and its look like a so strong.! Custom Tactical Accessories Supply

  • Kevin Choy

    based on my study, CMMG AR15 Carbine is a powerful gun that can be penetrate along walls and steel. Discount Ruger Mini 14 Gun Accessories Gun-Tite

  • alejo bentinez

    This is a build with some thought behind it! Well done! I like how short
    it is and hopefully it will be very accurate for you. Let us know how
    it shoots. OEM Rifle Scopes Bushnell