KRISS Vector .45 caliber submachine & other guns

0145

As I mentioned previously, the KRISS booth was pretty impressive. They had lots of Sphinx pistols on display, as well as Defiance suppressors and pistol sights. Last but not least, they also had the KRISS Vector .45 caliber submachine gun. Before I continue, let me say that they do not refer to it as the “Super V” and do not like it to be referred to as such. Calling it the Super V almost cost me some free Swiss chocolate!

They’re coming out with 9mm and .40 S&W versions of the Vector “soon.” I think these might be better sellers than the .45, for various reasons. Civilian shooters will probably like the lower cost of shooting 9mm, while LE agencies might be more interested in an SMG that takes the same magazines as the prolific Glock 22 in .40 S&W.

I’m not sold on the general or wide use of SMGs when rifle caliber weapons are often the same size, but I do see definite niche applications for weapons like the Vector and its derivatives. I commented to Christophe that the pistol version of the Vector could probably be shot very effectively with the weapon slung “Euro style.”

Also, KRISS had their new prototype SMG on display, which featured a number of changes and improvements over the Vector. It’s featured towards the end of this video.

KRISS Product Overview
KRISS’s new prototype SMG. Photo taken at SHOT Show. © Bryan Jones

Andrew Tuohy

Andrew Tuohy was a Navy Corpsman with the 5th Marine Regiment. He makes a living by producing written and visual content within the firearm industry, and he also teaches carbine courses. He prefers elegant weapons for a more civilized age, and regularly posts at Vuurwapen Blog.


Advertisement

  • SKSlover

    A KRISS chambered in 5.7 would be interesting.. there would be very limited recoil, and be able to have an impressive rate of fire while remaining acurate.

  • Sian

    Man, you looked a little nervous when Kristoff was demonstrating the prototype and pointing it right at you. XD

  • jdun1911

    The SMG weight probably the main reason for the reduce recoil. It’s very heavy for something that size.

    Putting a muzzle comp will do the same thing without the added weight and complexity.

    IMO the SMG is dead replaced by SBR. Much more effective and less logistical on the supply.

  • Axel Nordberg

    What does “euro style slung” mean?

  • Chris B

    Nice,

    Alternatively some are not a fan of carbine when overpenetration is a factor.
    It maybe a nice alternative to the somewhat expensive H&K’s and a hopeful godson of Uzi.
    When will they release a vague price range ?

  • SpudGun

    Are they still trying to pedal this thing? I’m really struggling to think of a use for it. I’ve fired a lot of sub guns in my time in both 9mm and .45 and to be honest, unless you weigh less then 75lbs, recoil is not a problem. Most of the time, you’re firing a pistol round in a rifle weight platform.

    Muzzle climb can be a factor, but it only becomes noticeable (IMHO) when doing full auto mag dumps. Even then, once you’re familiar with a particular SMG, you can anticipate the climb and brace accordingly.

    An expensive, complicated and untested system like the KRISS appears to be a step backwards and aside from Mall Ninjas, I’m not sure who the market for this gun will be comprised of.

  • CEOofEVIL

    I’m curious… was there any particular reason they renamed it?

  • Other Steve

    Why does their SMG prototype look YEARS behind their current production release?

    Seriously, a quad rail on that thing? A goofy looking collapsible stock versus their folding stock? It’s like they lost all the designs and their good engineer and are trying to get back where they were. Talk about two steps back.

  • dogon13

    i’m wondering that too.

    Why do they not want you to call it a “super V” ?

  • Avery

    The K10 is interesting. It looks very much like KRISS is going for the PDW market (of course, it would need to be in a PDW sub-caliber), because the Vector was a bit bulky. The retracting stock integrated into the upper body of the gun does a lot to streamline it.

    I’m wondering if Magpul helped design the K10 (like they had a hand in the Vector) or if this was a departure from their concepts. It still has the same format, but there’s not a whole lot of detailing. That could just be because its still a prototype.

  • jdun1911

    CEOofEVIL,

    Renamed? It always been either Kriss or TDI Vector. It’s better to called it Kriss because people get confused with Vector Arms and Vector Firearms from South Africa.

    What is surprising to me is that I always believed it was invented and made in the USA. I live in the area where they made the thing. Their sale reps was pimping it hard to military and local gun store. I didn’t know it was invented by a French guy in Europe and the company is own by him.

  • CMathews

    Chamber it in 10mm, then we’ll talk :)

  • andrew

    Chris B,

    Overpenetration is more of an issue with pistol caliber projectiles than 5.56.

    Axel,

    “Euro/European style” SMG shooting, as I was taught, involves a single point sling attached at the back of the receiver, and the shooter then holds the weapon extended so that the sling is taut between the body and the weapon. This is most effective with weapons that have low recoil.

  • abprosper

    Unless governments suddenly decide to make SMG’s legal for the civilian world I really can’t see much use for a weapon like that. A few civilians in areas with less restrictive gun laws might enjoy the carbine and the uses Glock Mag logistics are nice.

    As for institutional uses well maybe a suppressed version with subsonic ammo might have very limited uses in some counter terror and anti crime work but beyond that the SMG is an outdated weapons system.

    As for Euro style. I think thats the way the sling was used in that famous Patty Hearst/SLA picture

  • michael

    anyone else think this is way overpriced?

  • Paul

    When read first about it , and which I did not find referenced in your article — these carabines will be in 10mm
    and also will allow to swap various calibers

    is that still the case ?

  • Andy from CT

    Yeah, 10mm… True 10 should be very easy to control in that platform. Would be hell on soft or hard targets/vehicles.

    But as much as I love the 10, no one wants to make a new subgun in it. Cost of ammo and such.

  • CEOofEVIL

    @ Jdun1911,

    I was a little confused by the part of the write up where he states they (Kriss) are adamant about the gun be called the Kriss Vector instead of the “Super V”. :)

    • mambro

      I believe this stems from a marketing change: the first products (SMG/CRB/SBR/SDP) now simply being called the “Vector”… that uses the “KRISS Super V **System**” (KSVS) of recoil reduction.

      This may also help differentiate with the next-gen products, one of which seems to be the “K10″ (I don’t know if all of them will be considered K10 products or part of some “K” series)… but also still using the KRISS Super V System.

  • Avery

    Agreed, andrew. Apparently, the same ballistic instability the 5.56mm FMJ has at short range (and especially short barrels) is actually a benefit when using hollow-points and other pre-fragmented, non-Geneva compliant ammunition like Hornady TAP, especially in comparison to pistol ammunition of the same.

    5.56mm hollow-points dump all their energy into the target and are incapable of penetrating a single layer of drywall, while 9mm and .45 hollow-points fail to expand and drill through at least two walls of sheetrock.

    I remember someone doing a test that pretty much confirmed this. I’m not sure if it was Box O’ Truth or what.

  • Avery

    Oh, here’s the drywall test. I misremembered the final results, but the guy at 230grain used several brands of 5.56mm NATO, with 9mm JHP, .45 FMJ, .380 FMJ, 7.62x39mm FMJ and 12 gauge 00 buckshot as a control group firing through 3 sets of drywall. Everything penetrated the first set, but the Fiocchi 40-grain VMax and Winchester Ranger 55-grain Softpoint were partly stopped by the second wall set, with fragments stopped by third wall, and the Winchester Ranger 64-grain Power-Point was fully stopped by the second set of walls. Even the 00 buckshot and the pistol-fired .380 went through all three sets.

    http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/test-parameters.html

    Box O’ Truth did similar tests. When tested with simulated insulated walls, common pistol rounds (9mm, .40, .45 in JHP) went straight through 4 sets of walls, but the 5.56mm M193 (old FMJ) went through two and completely destabilized, making the flight paths hard to predict.

    http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot12.htm

    Also, apparently the New Jersey Division of Criminal Justice did tests on 5.56mm penetration of drywall with 19 inch and 14.5 inch barrels. 19 inch would punch through all four walls, while 14.5 inch would cause fragments on the third wall and penetrate the fourth.

    http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/njpdresources/pdfs/wallboard_test.pdf

  • Kyle

    Avery, you had me until “Geneva-compliant”. Hague, Hague, HAGUE!

  • Jim

    Did they stop it from jamming perpetually?

  • Francis X

    I find the KRISS design too hideous to take seriously. And as people have stated, it’s a solution in search of a problem.

  • Bryan S

    Jim: from what I understand, yes. And the ones I have shot didnt have a jamming problem, the one did a full carbine class with the FIRE Institute without issue.

    I have 2 gripes after shooting these carbines. 1 is the size. Very chuncky, front heavy (ATF reg barrels and shrouds do not help). Poor ergonomics for the mag release, charging handle, and the safety.

  • howlingcoyote

    Here’s another idea. Instead of 45 Auto, chamber it in 45 Win. Mag., 475 Wildey and 50 AE. Problem solved!
    Beats the 223.

  • BCH

    Hey. Has anyone gotten word when the company is going to start selling the K 10 and the price?

    • mambro

      I noticed there has been an update to the “Questions & Answers” section of the KRISS-USA website. In the “other calibers” question on the page, there is no mention of price for the next-gen, but as to “when” it would seem to be late summer of 2012.

      “KRISS USA has plans in place to release 9mm and .40S&W versions of the CIV and LE/MIL weapons with its next generation model which is currently scheduled for production in the late summer of 2012.”

      http://www.kriss-tdi.com/support/questions-answers.html

  • NewVector

    Bottom line, the vector pumps more lead on target than a HK MP5 with its dramatic reduction on the muzzle flip. The vector is very controllable, less muzzle flip than a Glock 19! Full auto shooting seems like a none event. It’s worth the money cuss it’s like owning a Nissan GTR, you pay for the performance ;)