Kel-Tec PMR-30 production suspended

pmr_30_ammunition_8317_tfb_tm-tfb

Kel-Tec is having production problems with the PMR-30. Gun Nuts reports

Speaking of Kel-Tec, they have currently suspended production of the Kel-Tec PMR-30 (of which they weren’t really producing a lot of guns anyway) due to keyholing issues with the gun. For those not familiar with the term, keyholing is what happens with the rate of twist in the barrel doesn’t stabilize the bullet in flight.

Related

Steve Johnson

Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.


More In: Pistols


Advertisement

  • Rob

    Let me get this straight: Kel-Tec is having production issues? *Shock*

  • jdun1911

    Keyholing also happen when there is no more rifling.

    Skip to 3:38 to see the target.
    http://rpginn.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1077&Itemid=39

  • Andrew Racek

    That’s why they suspended production for this pistol? Not because it is prone to missfeed?

  • Woodroez

    A shame Kel-Tec couldn’t nail it down on the first try. That’s what happens when you blaze trails like they are though.

    They have a release on their website indicating that they anticipate a two week delay. Since that release is now a week old as of this post, I guess it’s a one week delay at this stage, assuming their experiments with the rifling are going as planned.

    Back to the gun, they’ve decided to remove the fluting on the barrel and change the barrel design to reduce production time while maintaining the weight of the original design. More info available on their website.

    http://www.keltecweapons.com/news/pmr-30-status-update-iv

    As an aside, I remain impressed with the way the folks at Kel-Tec carry themselves. They’ve stayed in communication with the consumers through the PMR development and release. While some people will say their pocket guns have had issues, their reputation for customer service has generally been quite good too.

    If I ever see a PMR-30 in the wild, I would like to give it a look.

  • Alfred

    I have not been impressed with Kel-Tec’s workmanship or customer service. Exceedingly long wait times for minor issues and lot’s of minor issues.

    They have some interesting designs but don’t really seem to produce them very well.

  • ap

    The only hope for that gun is fast powder’d ammo. Kel-Tec… neat ideas poorly and slowly executed.

  • Matt

    That sucks. I saw a pmr-30 a few months ago at a gun shop. Purchaser let me hold it. Very light. Very cool. Though definitely not a optimal self defense gun. Be a great trail/varmint gun.

  • Komrad

    unfortunate to hear
    hopefully the simpler barrel making will bring the price down a bit once they start producing again

    I still want one, but my funds wont allow it yet, maybe for the better with the issues Kel-Tec invariably has

    thing about Kel-Tec is their products are very cool and reasonably priced, but you have to wait until they fix the bugs to get the best performance
    they usually sort the issues out eventually though

  • Bill Lester

    Disappointing to say the least. According to Kel Tec’s website, they’re looking at a new unfluted barrel with a faster rifling rate. You can read the full news release at http://www.keltecweapons.com/news/pmr-30-status-update-iv . One of the poobahs at KTOG said the keyholing problem arose suddenly and recently. Odd to say the least.

    I really want one of these little pistols but between the inadequate production, documented jamming problem, a Kboom! or two and now keyholing, I’m losing a great deal of interest. The PMR is a great idea but satisfies no one doing nothing more than looking cool in Oleg Volk’s photos. Kel Tec…get your act together.

  • Duray

    They have NOT “suspended production”. If you actually read the company’s statement, (which easily could have been included here) they say they’re delaying SHIPMENTS until they get the new barrel twist rate set up. Nothing says they aren’t still producing guns to be shipped out with updated barrels in a week or 2. Plus, they’re estimating only a 2-week delay, and that was a week ago. Why are you trying to make it sound like the PMR-30 has been shelved? Given that they’re selling guns as fast as they can make them, why would they shut down the entire assembly line for 2 weeks (about 800 guns) just because they’re updating the barrel design?

    • http://firearmblog Paul

      I just shot my new PMR 30 , yep 500 rounds and absolutely no jams smooth as a baby’s butt. Wow very cool shooting for any gun enthusiast . Really way cool tech stuff. Shot as fast as I could pull the trigger. Very loud snapping sound , not your average gun. I want another just in case it’s banned I have extra everything. Bought two extra mags also just in case there banned by our out of control government . I highly recommend these , I really put this baby though the test . Very good reliable all around fun defense anything survival gun. You name it it’s very high on my favorite list. I would carry this light gun as a full size carry over my Glocks that I loved for years. Buy one you won’t regrets it ever. :) happy shooting.

    • http://firarmblog Paul

      Update I just blogged how great my PMR was but forgot to add when I bought it I cleaned it with Remington gun cleaner and lubed it with gun Teflon spray, then wiped it down so you could barely see lube on guides. Just so you can get the results that I have gotten. 40 grain bullets work best. As it says in the manual . CCI Maxi Mag 40 gr is best. Or as well would be Winchester Super- X 40 gr or Remington Premier Magnum 33 gr . This is a keeper of the highest sort. Love it , sleep with it , pet it ,shoot it.

  • AJ187

    I love my kel tec plr16. If they can make a weapon system like that, I’m sure they can figure out the pmr and hopefully the rmr.

  • http://what? Russ

    I do not know what you are worrying about. Kel Tec is perfecting a very difficult design; so that the customer is satisfied and that they can make money. Teasing the consumer is not a bad thing for Kel Tec. From everyone (the dealers) to which I’ve talked, I gather that they could sell every PMR 30 on which they could put their hands. Still, I do not think it is intentional and all the probable buyers can complain, but Kel Tec’s 22 magnum with the 30 round magazine will still sell and be very popular. If I were you and if it is possible, I would buy stock in the company. My name is on a list and I will be paying over $100 of the suggested MSRP… because, I want one as soon as possible and I will wait until it is possible and I will not cry.

  • Ryan

    I hate to see such design, created by some great engineers who obviously have a touch of artistic talent, being ruined by manufacturing issues. A real shame

  • http://www.predatorwild.com Heath

    Has anyone been able to get one of the new barrels? I’ve still not seen any of these pistol in a gun store.

  • T.J.

    Why is it most major distributors don’t have these pistols, but at the 2011 SHOT show KelTec told me to contact Oaks Dist, which is in the same town as KelTec(kinda fishy?) Could get me what I needed, and they can, and have offered the pistols to my shop, as many as I need(, 5, 10, etc)
    At $400 each (wholesale), I have invoices to prove it. Sounds like double dipping, and screwing the dealers and consumers. I have sold several, cause people were willing to pay more, and none of my customers have reported keyholing issues. Sounds like a load of crap. Another way to keep the demand and prices high.

  • Lee

    i just returned from the range with my new PMR. If, this is one of the “new and improved” models then Kel Tec needs to go back to the drawing boards. Failure to eject and stove piping was the order for the day. I re cleaned the gun as per the directions and was very careful to load the mags. Still had FTE about every 4th round. Key holing was also a huge problem. Groups where about the size of a 10″ paper plate at 7 yards. O, one more item…. I did use the recommended ammo. Winchester super X.

  • Eric

    grendel p30…

    blaze trails?

    • Dean w

      Try cci maxi mag 40 grain. I have had zero failures after 2 bricks!

  • Richard

    Anyone out there know if their is a 22 mag round that is made for a pistol ? It would be nice it Kel Tec made it’s own ammo with several different types of bullets on same to pump up the power or waste of power (powder) from using a rifle round that has slower burning powder. But, then again, I just came back from shooting mine today with acouple of my buddies and they commented on the gun powder flash and sound of the gun. They said that alone makes it sound and look like a hiher caliber round…

  • CJ

    If what you’re saying is true about kel-tec and the oaks dist. , that’s bs. We purchased or I should say have paid for two pmr 30′s back in Nov 10 almost nine months later and have gotten the run around from kel tec and the retailer. I’d just like the truth about where theyre going. I hope their satisfied by screwing consumers over.

  • Richard

    I was reading some of these comments and wanted to address T.J.’s comment about Oaks Dist. If you go to Keltec’s website, as I did, and look under their downloads section, you’ll find a list of their distributors of which Oaks Wholesale of Rockledge is listed. I assume this is the retailer you bought your gun from since I am a native Floridian and know Rockledge is outside Cocoa. Well, if you read the Keltec website you will note the manufacture suggested retail price is $415 for the PMR30. Also, Keltec claims they have no control over where their weapons go after they provide them to these distributors. Personally, I bought mine from B & H Gun Rack, Merritt Island, FL (also next door to Cocoa), who was one of the few distributors who responded to my emails, and paid $350 for mine. They, too, can get these guns from Kel Tec on a regular monthly basis. Now, when I went to Orlando’s Gun Show in June, I spoke with many retailers about acquiring the PMR30 and they told me due to these distributors not being able to provide enough PMR30′s to other retailers, they are forced to buy them through one or two middle men thus increasing their cost forcing them to sell the guns above the $500 mark. Kel Tec on the other hand apparently doesn’t think their PMR30 is that popular since they claim demand for the gun is low so they are not producing as many as they could. I think that there is alot of mis-communication going on and it could be corrected if Kel Tec could provide monthly production records and where the specific numbers of the different weapons they produce are being shipped in relation to their list of distributors… However, that information is usually not provided by any manufacturer.
    To me, it’s a shame since I love my PMR30 and the only problem with it is not the jamming (there is unique way you have to load the magazine to avoid jams) and not key holing (which is not having rifling disappear from the barrel but is the shape the bullet makes when it goes through a paper target)which is caused by a variety of reasons but the PMR30 problem is it is using rife ammo (which the powder burns at a slower rate as pistol ammo) and thus makes the bullet behave improperly as it travels down and out of a short pistol barrel…. no, it’s not these problems … it seems to me that it’s mis-information or not enough information between the factory, distributors, retailers and buyers and back again. The feedback… is keeping the factory from producing more PMR30′s according to their latest website posting. They think demand is down. Then you read about this key holing description where people think the gun’s barrel is unsafe because losing its rifling by just firing it… The pistol is not losing its rifling… it’s just the problem when you use a slower burn rate (rifle powder) that is still exploding and pushing the bullet as it leaves the short barrel which could be causing the back of the bullet to be push at a different angle than straight ahead.. . Kel Tec believes the answer is in the number of turns of the rifling in their barrel will help correct the key holing problems making the gun less accurate. Of course the obvious solution is to provide pistol ammo in a 22 mag round but Kel Tec is not in the ammo making business , therefore Kel Tec’s gun’s design is trying to use rifle ammo without having a keyhole problem which is what the blowback/lock down system is all about. It just doesn’t work all the time apparently. Regardless, it is a great idea to have 22 mag pistols… and until the ammo factories make a pistol round for these guns, it’s up to the engineers to discover how to make this slower burning powder work in a short barrel gun…

  • Richard

    Oh, yeah, just after my long explanation as to the distributors, factory and key holing issues, I forgot to tell you.. If you want the PMR30, B & H Gun Rack got mine inside a month for $350. They claim they get enogh PMR30′s to fill all their back orders each month after you provide a $90 deposit. I got mine a week after I posted my deposit with them.

  • mwallace

    The original company had a 30 shot 22 WMR in the 1980′s. It had several issues. This is a unique pistol and I will buy one if they can make it work. It has the capacity to make it a great plinker once they get the bugs out. The .22 WRM is close in power to the civilian 5.7×28 without the cost and hunt to find bullets for sale. It also performs close to the 9mm in energy again without the cost or recoil. Producing guns using CAD is not the real world as if you give a shooter a 30 round 22 they are going to shoot it faster and harder the first day then a centerfire pistol gets in 6 months. Let us not forget that the Ruger mini 30 was to be a .308 but went with 762×39 as they could not fix the key holing accuracy issue. I have never trusted a .22 LR as a camp gun as more then once I have had to dispatch a rabid animal or needed the gun for a potential defense situation and a .22LR didn’t do either thing well. I still have my old S&W .22LR camp gun and it is a beautifully made pistol. I paid more for my .22 S&W then I could have bought a S&W .357 Mag for in the same year. My current camp gun is a Ruger .22 Mag single six and it has taken both deer and a black bear in an emergency. An extra 24 rounds in the magazine would free me up from the two extra cylinders I carry. I am waiting to see what kind of reliability this pistol can give as if it is a camp gun it needs to go bang every time in a less then a clean environment. For the folks that haven’t owned a .22 WMR in recent years you should take a look at the new ammo that is available. New types of .22 WMR include Critical Defense and speeds up to 2,000 FPS. The old WMR does better then a .22LR in a short barrel as far as speed loss per inch. In my experience the .22 WMR is a much better round then a .380 for penetration and wound channel in medium game. It also shoots long distance with less bullet drop. My only observation at this point is what idiot put those “lite brite” sights on a camp gun. Those sights are better suited for the poker table then camp as in no light situations they disappear and in the day time they cut the accuracy in half compared with target sights. I do appreciate the straight forward honest approach Kel Tec has with their customers. They have come a long way from the old clock spring 380 that broke with the first dry firing.

    • http://mafirearmsafety.com Mark Shean

      You have killed bear in emergency situations with your Ruger six shot .22 mag? Do you have a death wish? I would like to hear that story sometime.

  • cynical man

    i disagree with those who question the adequacy of the 30 as a self defense weapon…ok…i’ll agree that one bullet from this weapon does not have the stopping power of a 9, 40, or 45…but neither does it have the weight nor the recoil…it holds 30 rounds…in a close-quarter confrontation, if i can put 5 shots in your face, balls, or chest in 1 second, you’re going to have second thoughts about continuing your attack…this isn’t about shooting once and the waiting so see what happens…it’s basically horizontal carpet bombing…i read on one site where it said that the recommended ammo for this gun was rated at 1850 fps…geez…my point is with the weight and lack of recoil, i can put 3 times as many shots on target in 1/3 the time compared to a nine…oh, i almost forgot–and with MUCH less damage to my eardrums should i be forced to use it in a confined area like, oh, say, the front seat of my car in the process of a carjacking…

  • Richard

    Hear ! Hear ! Cynical Man !…… The 22 mag does not have the stopping power of a 9mm, etc… but it doesn’t mean it isn’t a great self-defense gun. The amount of ammo is definitely a plus.. You don’t have to count your rounds like I would have to do with my .357 revolver or .380 Bersa but, if you read about hitman, their upclose and personal weapon is a 22 to 25 caliber…. I assume because they are easier to silence… but it shows they are also deadly. The rule is one shot in the head, another in the throat and the last in the chest… and you have a guaranteed kill… Horrible thought to break it down like that but years spent in Military school’s do give you a different education than most. In reading up on the 22 mag round used in rifles, I found that it is used for the taking of deer, coyote, etc.. down to smaller varmints like prairie dogs… at vast distances so at close range, whether you get a keyhole shot in them or not, it’s gonna go right through a person’s head like it’s not even there.

    • Sunil

      Hi Rich,

      Just to let you know, you really need subsonic ammo to if you want to use a silencer and have it be quiet. Any ammo that is not subsonic ( above (100fps) will make the distinct “crack” we are all used to hearing while shooting. Silencers, even good ones cannot silence high and hyper velocity ammo well.

      • Richard

        Yes, you’re right, the majority of the noise is breaking the sound barrier so the round must be sub-sonic… I assumed everyone already knew that but I probably should have pointed it out but I was just making a quick reference to the caliber ability to kill a human being… but thanks for keeping me straight.

  • http://what? Russ

    First I must apologize for not reporting promptly. I’m sorry; there, I said it. Anyway, I got on a list in April or May, and I waited and on the first weekend last month, at the RK gun show in Kingsport, TN, I picked up my Kel Tec PMR 30 (I couldn’t wait the two weeks till the show made it back to Knoxville). You probably would like to know how it performed.

    A friend of mine bought one a month earlier (July) at the R K gun show in Knoxville and we took it to the farm and shot a hundred rounds. She had three misfires with the first clip, but it was loaded with the Walmart white box Winchester. She then switched to one of the recommended rounds, CCI Maxi-Mag 22 WMR HP 40 grain, and didn’t have another problem. I might add that there were only 25 rounds in each of the loaded magazines; 30 rounds are pretty hard to fit in the new magazine.

    Then last month, after I received mine, we both took our PMR’s back to the farm and tested them with recommend ammunition, including Federal’s 50 grain Game Shok. Hers had no problems and mine had one failure to feed on the fourth round of 40 grain CCI and then after that, no problems with the remaining 96 rounds. Yes, I also only loaded 25 rounds in the magazines; I’ll try 30 next time.

    I love my PMR. There were no key holing issues and it was easier than most handguns to shoot accurately. I’m sure most of that support came from the awesome trigger. It shoots well and it feels good. It fit my hand better than I expected, but until we got ours, all I had to go by was a picture. Also, it was easy to hit the target with rapid fire.

    Now if that wasn’t enough, Kel Tec wants to make it even cheaper to practice with your PMR. I emailed Kel Tec’s customer service and asked about a rumor I read about a 22 long rifle conversion kit for the PMR. They said it was true and that it also was to have the 30 round magazine. Can you imagine how familiar you can become with this pistol with rounds that may cost 30% or less than the WMR rounds. He also wrote that it is scheduled to be available January, 2012. Of course reality would dictate that to be a “wait and see”, but I will wait again and I will not cry… unless it’s tears of joy. I’m a satisfied, happy customer.

  • http://mafirearmsafety.com Mark Shean

    I paid for a PMR-30 in May 2011 from Woodburyoutfitters in Ohio and recived it in August. I promptly took it apart, cleaned it, used Rem-Dry lube on the moving parts and the gun has functioned flawlessly with any type of ammo I have used, with no key holing issues. I am very happy with it. I bought 2 additional mags from Kel Tec for a total of 4, and I put a light on the rail. I hope enough of these guns sold will bring down the price of the ammo a bit. It is a very accurate gun.

  • Bob Stillwell

    I have 00039, and have run over a thousand rounds through it. I took out seven nutria rats at once with it’s right out of the box accuracy and dependabilty. I also admit to not cleaning it as often as I should and carrying it with me everywhere I go, tucked between the seat, under the arm rest, shoulder holster while I bush hog on my tractor.
    I’ve owned alot of guns and I’ve told my wife all I want for Christmas is another PMR-30 so I can pull two at a time blasting up to 60 rounds.
    Unlike some of you, I dont count misfeeds, I just clear them and keep shooting, man up, get real most semi auto pistols jam once in a while, and if my pistol is keyholing, I like it, best shooting pistol I’ve ever owned and mine aint for sale at any price. I’m no engineer or want to be but I’s bet 22 Mag would penetrate deeper than any old 9mm, which makes a big difference if your shooting through a car door or the breast plate of a wild hog.

    • Richard

      Hear hear Bob… I feel the same way you do.. I would love to have another PMR-30 to blast the bad guys or a herd of stampeding hogs away.. My new Bersa 380 has more jams than my PMR30 as well as my Beretta 96. Jams happen… As far as keyholing goes, turningn the bullet sideways (which creates the key hole paper cut in the target (thus the term) makes me feel even better when shooting the bad guy since the length of the bullet is three times as big as the diameter of the 22 round so it should be even more effective at knocking the bad guy down… and I have 29 more rounds to shoot him with.

  • John v

    Hey, has the been lifted by kel tec?

  • gary d. snyder

    22 Mag is small but high velocity. And with 30 rds in and 30 or more in reserve you can dissuade more than a few bad guys. I love the weapon and have never had a problem using the proper ammo.

  • Chris Aiken

    I bought & paid for my PMR30 July 10th of 2010 & haven’t gotten it yet . Kel Tec shipping & distributors aren’t doing a very good job of filling orders as they should be filled . Should be done by oldest orders but in reality it’s who hollers the loudest & which gun dealer buys the most from a distributor . Wouild love to have one of their new shotguns but would probably be dead & buried before I would get it . Kel Tec is only producing 500 to 550 PMR30′s a week & sending them to 30 distributors . They were 7000 behind when production started . Then they had barrel problems & heat treat problems . Production has been a Chinese firedrill from the start . Who knows what the shotgun production will be like .

    • Tony V

      Does anybody know when production/deliveries will resume at a normal rate?

      I placed my order back in April and was told to expect 4-6 weeks of waiting. No big deal. Now here it is in December, over nine months later and still not even a clue as to when I might actually get it.

      The customer service people at Kel Tec are of no help with no information. This is my first interest in and purchase of a Kel Tec and could very well be my last (that is, if I even ever get it). Kel Tec needs to take a page from Ruger on 1) firearm development/testing/distribution and 2) customer service.

      What use are all of these unique, interesting and fun new items from Kel Tec if they will never reach practical production and distribution?

      Thanks in advance for any info/updates :)

      • Chris Aiken

        Tony, I have called several times & also e-mailed Kel Tec & you won’t get a straight answer to any question . It’s like talking to one of our politicians up in Washington . They say one thing but are doing something else . They say now that they are shipping to their 30 distributors on a rotating basis ??? Before I was told they shipped each week 15 to 20 guns to each distributor ??? They will shut down for two weeks this month for Christmas & start back production on Jan. 3rd . You know if mine has been ordered & paid in full since July 10th of 2010 you have a long wait . Good luck but Santa Claus ain’t brining a PM30 this year .

  • Tony V

    Does anybody know when production/deliveries will resume at a normal rate?

    I placed my order on 06 March 2011 (earlier than I previously stated, after looking at my receipt) and was told to expect 4-6 weeks of waiting. No big deal. Now here it is in December, over nine months later and still not even a clue as to when I might actually get it.

    The customer service people at Kel Tec are of no help with no information. This is my first interest in and purchase of a Kel Tec and could very well be my last (that is, if I even ever get it). Kel Tec needs to take a page from Ruger on 1) firearm development/testing/distribution and 2) customer service.

    What use are all of these unique, interesting and fun new items from Kel Tec (PMR, RMR, KSG, RFB) if they will never reach practical production and distribution?

    Thanks in advance for any info/updates :)

    • Marine Doc

      I received this response from Kel-Tec on 12-9-2011:

      “We are still shipping hundreds of PMRs a week (but lots on backorder) and divide them evenly between our 30 wholesalers every month, but they have long backorder lists that need to be filled before they can fill newer orders. Since we ship to wholesalers, then they to dealers, there’s no way for us to know where or when they will ship the firearms. If you’ve placed an order or are looking to, it will depend on which wholesalers your dealer uses (or hopefully, multiple), if they still have backorders to fill before filling newer orders, as well as how many the wholesalers have on order with us. However, we are shipping them weekly.”

      Sounds like they have NO idea when anyone will get one.

      • Todd

        Interesting reply from Kel-Tec. It is the exact word for word response I got this morning from them. This is the first site I have seen numbers or to hear about the production halt. A friend has one and it has never had an issue and I am sure that he has put clsoe to a thousand rounds through it without any issue.

        Nice gun but just who do they think they are by limiting production and not being honest with their customers. They need to remember that we can dislike them just as easily as we like them. Just be honest and up front with your customers and we will be more loyal.

    • Chris Aiken

      Tony,
      If you want to order a PMR30 check B&H Gunrack in Florida . Man says he is getting 40 PMR30′s a month . I ordered one 3 weeks ago & he says I will have one within 45 days . B&H is only around 35 miles from Kel Tec . If he is getting 40 a month this might be the reason the other gun distributors can’t get any . Will let you know it he’s telling the truth about the one I have ordered .

      • Richard

        Absolutely, I bought my PMR through B&KGun Rack and had my gun in hand inside of 10 days…. I am very pleased with it… Only requirement is you have to pay for the gun first before they will order it.. I sent a check by mail (Sanford/Orlando, FL) and got a confirmation by email or phonecall (can’t remember which) whereas B&K got my check the next day . Love the gun as all my friends do too !!!!

      • Tony V

        Thanks for the info guys.

        I ordered mine from budsgunshop.com and they seem to at least be delivering some PMR-30′s now. I’ve been checking my position on the reserve list the last few months and I was down to number 35 a few weeks ago. I move down about 12 spots a month, so hopefully I only have to wait a few more months. Buds has got to be one of the top ten retailers in the nation so I wouldn’t have thought that getting preferential distribution would be a problem but I guess it is. Who knows…

        But I’m in no hurry, I’ve still got a few new guns in the safe I haven’t even had time to shoot yet (including one I am really excited about – the Ruger SR22 pistol) so I can keep waiting a little longer. Besides, I only paid $299 including shipping and I don’t feel like going any higher than that. I’ve seen them selling for $450 – $500 elsewhere when they were in stock. Just curious, what did you guys pay at B&K Gun Rack?

      • Richard

        I think I paid $350 for my PMR so, you did good at $299. I order another one at that price.. I went to a gun show and was offer $450 for mine and knew if I tried I could get $550 for it since everyone has such a hard time getting them.. People were willing to pay more to get right then… Mine was only a week old and hadn’t been shot yet but I didn’t want to wait for another plus I don’t have FFL and don’t want my name as registered owner on a gun someone else has.

      • Tony V

        So I know I said I was in no hurry three months ago but this is now completely ridiculous. Not so much in Kel Tec’s production practices but rather in Bud’s Gun Shop’s complete lack of concern for faithful customers. The last three months, I’ve only moved down the waiting list by an average of four places a month (all due to other’s cancelling their reserve orders from what I’ve been told). I’m now number 22 on the waiting list (15 months after order) with still no clue when they might get one to ship to me. You can’t tell me one of the top 10 retailers in the country can’t get at least a few of the PMR-30′s a month? Or rather that they can only get them at a loss to what they sold it to me for and therefore don’t care what-so-ever about fulfilling the order? Bud’s doesn’t care about their customers and they make it pretty clear. Even the last few regular orders I made they really dropped the ball after getting my money. And that is after I bought 4-5 guns a year from them for the last five years. I would post some of the email responses they sent me when I questioned their recent lack of quality service, but I would be ashamed to repeat such foul and disrespectful language. Stay away from Bud’s guys, nothing but bad mojo and bad people there.

      • Tony V

        So, I called to check on my waiting position again this morning and there haven’t been any changes. They guy I talked to was very courteous and helpful (rare for Buds these days), and advised me to cancel the order. All of the movement on the waiting list over the last 16 months has been people cancelling their orders. He said they haven’t actually shipped any PMR-30′s since March 2011 and said he didn’t imagine getting any to ship any time soon as they haven’t tried to order any in over a year. What the heck? I guess Bud’s just hopes people forget about the improbable reserve orders and keep their money?

        So, this was Kel-Tec’s fault in the beginning but has clearly been my retailer’s fault the year for not attempting to complete the backorders.

        I guess the $299 really was too good to be true and I guess I don’t need a PMR-30 after all.

  • alan

    I’d just like to say I hope Keltec fixes these problems with production and key holing. I want one anyway. It’s like I know an item like this exists and I have to have one. I’m not going to enter it in Camp Perry shoots, it’s not a bench rest gun. Will it kill an intruder? Will it shoot every time I squeeze the trigger? Thirty times between reloads? Will it make me feel secure when I pick it up? If so, I want one!
    Come on Keltec, how hard can it be with this high unemployment rate, to find enough skilled workers to do the job? Create some jobs and make more money. Get with the program, and be sure to keep it here in the USA, and you’ll do good. -GBA-

  • JOE NOVAK

    HAVE YOU CONSIDERED MAKEING A 20″BAREL AND A FOLDING STOCK WITH A 30 RD MAG?

  • http://hotmail ZEKE BABSON

    i would suggest to kel tec to have wilson combat produce the barrels and that would solve the problem with the riflting in the barrel and thus solve the production problems. people are waiting in line to buy and own thw pmr 30. in fact i would purchase one maybe two for myself and my wife.

    sincerely Zeke Babson
    6745 Center Road Bladenboro NC
    MRCM-SW RETIRED US NAVY
    MASTER MACHINIST

  • Chris Aiken

    Got my PMR 30 within 3 weeks of ordering it from B&H Gunrack in Florida . I’ve shot 90 rounds with no jams . Have a Simply Rugged sourdough holster & you don’t even know you have the pistol on you .The price was $415 . $25 of that was shipping & dealer transfer . Be safe guys & keep shooting .

    • Richard

      Told you, Chris… B&H Gun Rack is the place to go for fast delivery of the PMR30… That’s where I got mine and have fired hundreds of rounds out of it with just a few jams that were MY FAULT, not the gun… If you follow Keltec’s instructions while loading the magazine and use the right ammo, no jams… but loading 30 rounds by hand gets tiring whereas I find that my jams were caused by improper bullet placement in the magazine. So watch how every bullet aligns especially after midway through… Sometimes I don’t seat the bullet exactly right by not bumping the magazine just right in order to position the bullet where it should be. If I don’t do that just right, that’s where I usually have a jam… otherwise it is just fine… I’m thinking of getting another one… I still say I like to see ammo made with the right gunpowder, not rifle powder but pistol powder… even though the extra boom that happens every now and then scares the shit out of every body. Sounds like a cannon going off. In a gunfight, most bullets miss (check the stats) so having a gun firing at you does a good job breaking up your concentration when firing back so the bigger the bang and the more of them keeps you safer than no bang at all..

  • Dan Thorn

    Kel-Tec should improve quality control and raise it’s prices accordingly. Americans like to buy American as long as that product is superior to a foreign brand. (i.e. American vs Japanese cars.) Americans will pay more, sometimes substantialy more, for a quality American product.
    There is a market for “economical” products. Not everyone needs top-of-the-line. But I find that this does not apply very often in the American shooting public.
    Reliability is key with most products. Would you settle for a car that starts most of the time? Who needs a firearm that functions most of the time no matter how clever or unique the design?
    Add quality, vigorous pre shipment testing, increase your price a little you will easily pay for the extra costs with positive publicity and reputation in the market.
    Right now the Kel-Tec image is that of mediocre quality. Get your shit together and bring an excellent product to market and we shooters will beat your door down to get it.

    • Richard

      I understand where you are coming form but you completely missed the point… Keltec is a good quality gun that works all the time regardless of price… anybody that doesn’t think so is ignorant about weapon designs.. Keltec is doing something with their PMR30 that has never really been done on a consistant basis…. They are ahead of their time and still trying to figure things out… That’s the point where certain uneducated people don’t seem to understand… If you think they can fix this problem (simplified it is using other manufacturer’s ammo that is made for a rifle and shooting it out of a pistol with a 3 inch barrel) by throwing money at it… I hope you don’t become a Politician … its physics… The rifle powder burns too slow… To fix the problem overnight would be for Keltec to produce their own ammo for the gun using pistol powder… but they are a gun manufacturer, not ammo manufacturer… If you want to reload the 22 magnum rounds with pistol powder then their gun will work perfectly but until then, I believe they will continue to try to figure out how to make rifle powder work in their pistol… I own two of them and love them. I’ve fired thousands of rounds out of them without any barrel issues such as losing the rifling… My rifling is as new as it was the day I bought it and if it needs to be replaced, the barrels are cheap to buy… Periodically the target shows signs of keyholes which the rifle powder pushes the bullet sideways as it exits the barrel but at close range, who cares, a sideways bullet will give more transfer of power than drilling a properly fired bullet all the way through and out you.. If I want over 50 feet in range, I’ll use another type pistol… but if I want a 22 magnum then use a rifle. It will shoot hundreds of yards with that same bullet which is what it was designed to do… Varmint hunting… So don’t trash Kel Tec for trying to build something no one else has done either and selling their guns at a good price… Paying more for something doesn’t automatically raise the quality… Guns are inexpensive to make in the first place. It wasn’t until the criminals were using relatively good cheap guns back in the early 60′s did the people complain about cheap handgun (The Saturday Night Special it was called) so the Government mandated a new law raising the prices of guns so it was out of the reach of the poor criminal (so I guess only rich ones could afford a gun). The only people who benefited were the gun manufacturers…Guns went from just over $100 to over $250 or more back then. Manufacturers got increase profits since they didn’t have to compete with one another… The crooks still pay $50 to $100 for their guns… because their guns are stolen… as always… who would use their own gun in a robbery or murder besides an idiot. I’m retired law enforcement… Learn your history… See the evolution of how things come to pass… There is a lot of BS in these gun bills and any law depending on who wants it and who doesn’t. Our politicians are up for sale… one of the reasons why a democracies haven’t worked for very long throughout history… too much private influence can misdirect good people from doing what is right for us all instead of what is good for some… The poor always get the shaft… Kel tec’s trying to do what is right in the way of their pricing and they are a leader in innovation. (OFF SUBJECT – Take private funds out of the election process if you want government to truly work for all classes of people (rich and poor) which means we as tax payers must pay for everyone’s campaigns… but think of all the money we’ll save in our daily purchases since private business won’t have to pay all those 100’s of millions of dollars to elect their politicians… Sorry for the “SAVE THE USA plug”…

      • Tony V

        Spot on, Richard, on all accounts. Well explained and well said.

      • beenthere

        The ‘fix’ is simple – don’t release a product to market if it isn’t ready. That’s what China, Japan, Korea, etc., and Microsoft does, and we keep buying them. Don’t use the market place to test your product. Do it in house, and price it accordingly. We’ll pay more for quality but we hate being the canary in the coal mine.

      • Mr J.

        keltecs are not a quality firearms that work every time.That is pure insanity!I have seen more malfunctions and returns out of keltecs than just about any other name brand firearm.They do not shoot worth a sh*t! they don’t build an accurate firearm and they by no means build a quality product.You name the malfunction and keltec has had major issues with it.perfect example the pmr 30 bbl issue. But what do I know? I’m only retired Army infantry advanced i.e. Ranger,3 years as a private contractor in the middle east and a firearms instructor for one of the tier 1 advanced tactics academies in the country.They are cheap poorly manufactured budget firearms.Im sorry if anyone disagrees, but that is the truth no matter if you want to hear it or not.They are generic budget blasters for people who don’t know any better.

      • http://thefirearmblog.com Scott Hines

        If your one of the unlucky people that bought a PMR-30 then you know how much of a piece of junk they are. I don’t want to hear all the bla bla bla and excuses people are making for these things. Kel-Tec is really turning out to be a joke of a company and it doesn’t matter how good the customer service is if its junk they are selling. I bought a new PMR 30 2 days ago 9-25-2012 and right out of the box this thing is nothing but dangerous! There is no way to tell where the bullets are going to go when they come out of the barrel tumbling! I was shooting at a 2′ square box at 10′ and missing!! When i finally did hit they were keyholes!! I went thru 3 different good brands of shells with the same outcome!! This is suppose to be the updated version??? Come on Kel-tec get it together!! Also the PF9 i bought new wouldn’t chamber a round from the clip, had to order a replacement piece!! I have bought 3 Kel-Tec guns new and 2 of them didn’t work out of the box, 1 of them i repaired and the PMR-30 can’t be repaired cause KEL-TEC has been screwing around with the design of the barrel for 3 years now and its clear they don’t know how to fix it but they keep shipping them!! If you give the PMR-30 a good review then its clear that you like making excuses to make something seem to work. I just hope that if someone uses this for home defense that a loved one is not close by cause who knows where this thing will shoot.

  • charles lee

    I have read reviews about the Kel-Tec PMR-30 that reported keyholin, and was wondering what Kel-Tec was doing about this problem.

  • Gary D. Snyder

    I agree with the gentleman who refered to using the PMR-30 as “horizontal carpet bombing”A small round true,but that SJHP hits fast and hard. If the bad guy’s not wearing armor a “Mozambique” will always work inside 6 meters. And if he is armored thirty rounds will give him pause while you reload. Love the weapon but, yeah, it does need tweeking Gotta love the idea though.Thirty high velocity rounds and fully loaded the weapon weighs less than twenty ounces. Imagine that mother with a suppressor and laser.Ouch!

  • Gary D. Snyder

    I was told the reccommended round was CCI Mini-Mags. Never a problem. not one.

  • Gary D. Snyder

    Some of us were aparrently fortunate to acquire “good” PMR-30,s. But the complaints SHOULD be addressed by the company. Back orders that long are hard to believe.

    • Joe Ryba

      My order hasnt been filled yet from Al and Bobs Sporting goods store in grand rapids Michigan. The order was taken on 6-16-2011. I just called today to complain once again, and was told the order for 4-2011 was just filled and I am next in line. What a joke.

  • Conck

    I just bought this gun and noticed it had problems misfeeding. What I saw was that the spring in the magazine didn’t have enough power to handle and feed all the 30 rounds… I just added another spring to the magazine and it worked every time with any and every brand of round I used.

    • tony

      what kind of spring

    • http://none Fredric

      Sir:
      Would u b so kind to tell me where u bought the spring. I have been having the same problems.

  • Ed

    I have seen the pmr-30 go as low as $298.95. Why some dealers charge hundred(s) more than msrp reguardless of its popularity. Its like going to local car dealerships and see vehicles for thousands more than msrp. I am sure those dealers will make headline. And I am pretty sure those firearms dealerships would not want to buy a vehicle from any of them.

  • Norman Neely

    After watching the video 90 rounds in 25 seconds I want one.

    The video in the top row on the right.

    http://keltecweapons.com/video/

    • Jerry

      I want one too so I hope they are back in production pretty soon.

  • john

    ive shot deer coyote,hogs for butcher and a 900 pound steer all head shots with my 22 mag rifle over the years,its a pretty bad ass round

  • http://firarmblog Paul

    Again I have had great success with mine and don’t know why exactly. The only thing I can think of is a gun addict per se I bought my PMR 30 and first thing I did was disassemble totally which I do with all my guns. Cleaned all parts to my satisfaction , then I polished the ramp, polished the barrel, lubed all parts with Teflon spray. Let it sit for 24 hrs then dry all parts. Reassembled and shot 500 rounds without one jam or misfire. I live this pistol to all get out. I have owned hundreds of pistols over the years but this one I would not sell for three times what I paid for it. Happy and don’t know why the bad wrap.

  • http://firarmblog Paul

    Spell check uhg. Sorry for previous spelling.

  • http://firarmblog Paul

    Besides the PMR30 I also have the Grendel another great from previous owners of same company.keep up the great work guys . Also a great value is the P11 a 9 mm pistol that’s affordable and perfect for cancelled carry. Thin and light weight good feeling in the way it fits the hand. Strong trigger pull which I like so no mistakes with gun going off for light trigger. I think it’s 5 lb pull which I would rather have for carry anyway.

  • http://firarmblog Paul

    Concealed spell check sorry.

  • Rod Tuley

    I guess I’m just lucky because I have a PMR-30 and it is the best shooting pistol I have ever owned no problems, and shoots like it’s already had a trigger job done on it. Great job Kel-Tec!!!!

    • http://none Fredric

      What amo are. You using?

  • Tony V

    So, after over a year and half of backorder frustration, I finally got my PMR-30. Not sure if if was worth the wait, but my first impressions are that it is a fantastic pistol and I have no regrets about buying it. Fit, finish, performance and initial quality seem to be very high.

    Like everything else about it, the grip is pretty unique, it is triangular in shape with a normal width at the rear but narrow up front. It is also fairly long front to rear compared to most full size handguns, but still pretty comfortable for medium sized hands. The grip angle is more vertical than most common pistol types but I didn’t notice any issues in handling. It is rediculously light feeling but points well and shoots pretty naturally. The trigger is very light and smooth but has no increased resistance before the click- it just sort of goes off when you start to take up the creep so be careful.

    I did a quick strip and clean and went to the range with it last weekend. Shooting is easy and fun. It definitely feels more centerfire than rimfire but some of that may be the noise and muzzle flash every time you pull the trigger. Recoil is minimal and control pretty optimal and with the light easy reset trigger it is very easy to shoot it fast. I had no problems twice putting 9 of 10 rounds into a paper plate at 10 yards in about 3.5 seconds. Overall accuracy was awesome right out of the box. Taking my time I could easy hit 1.5″ circles every shot off hand at 10 yards.

    I put 150 rounds through it with no malfunctions or feed/ejection issues of any kind. I read and followed the instructions in the manual for loading. Only once did I put in a full 30 rounds, the other times were all 10 or 20 rounds at a time. I put 40 CCI minimags, 50 Winchester Dyna Points, 20 Hornady V-max and 40 Federal Champion. The CCI, Dyna Points and Federal were all 40 gr bullets and all shot very well, very nice accuracy. The 30 gr V-max rounds still shot well but accuracy wasn’t very good- about a 5 inch spread at 10 yards and most of them looked like tumblers from the marks on the paper. My guess is that this barrel length/twist rate is not suitable for the lightweight bullets. My recommendation is to use cheap 40 grain ammo, be safe and have fun with it.

    All the 100′s of critters on my property better thank their lucky stars I follow the rules about not shooting in the neighborhood because this pistol would be the ultimate back porch plinker.

  • Outback

    Please understand while reading these comments on the PMR-30 that this is not an article written to praise or condemn the pistol. I have seen many interested people asking questions about the PMR-30 and they want to know if there are shooters that have experience with the gun.
    I have owned a PMR-30 for over a year and like everyone else was happy to get one. I love the concept of a 22WMR autoloader. My firearms are never abused or bump fired. I follow the manufacturer’s recommendations on what type of ammunition to use and cleaning instructions.
    After about 500 rounds of CCI 40gr, Maxi Mag ammunition (recommended by Kel-Tec) passed through the pistol the takedown pin seared in half. Prior to searing, the pistol never completed a full magazine. As most would suspect, I thought it might be a magazine problem. That could not be the case because I purchased four additional magazines from Kel-Tec directly. Each magazine jammed or failed to feed.
    I contacted Kel-Tec and they treated me with great respect and assured me that a new takedown pin was on the way. They had me a new one in 48 hours. I was very pleased with the service and speed at which they helped me. I am fully aware that a part can fail and that it is part and parcel to any manufactured product.
    The new takedown pin installed and it was off to the range to have some fun with friends shooting my repaired PMR-30. The pistol still had the feed problems and I could not get it to fire a complete magazine. After 200 rounds the takedown pin seared in half again. Now I was convinced that the pin was not the problem. One pin searing I could understand but two was out of the question.
    Upon returning home, I contacted Kel-Tec and they informed me to ship the pistol back to the factory. I complied and waited 7weeks for it to be returned. When it was returned, they had a letter explaining what repairs were conducted. In this case, they said that they polished the slide.
    Again I returned to the range to see how it would fire. Two magazines went through the pistol with no problems. I thought that this was great and the pistol was fixed.
    I took a break and then loaded another magazine. On the 5th round the pistol blew up. The slide cannot be moved and the slide cover is cracked. The crack would indicate to me that the slide must have expanded considerably during the explosion.
    I contacted Kel-Tec and they said to send it back to the factory and they would fix the problem. It is nice that they want to help but now I am becoming leery of the pistol and if it is not fixed this time I don’t think I could recommend anyone purchasing a PMR-30.
    In addition to what I have experienced with my PMR-30 there is a video on You Tube showing a PMR-30 malfunctioning 47 times in fewer than 300 rounds. His malfunctions were identical to the ones I experienced.

    • Richard

      OMG ! I’m so sorry to hear what problems you have experienced with the PMR30.. I’ve had mine just over 2 years now and have about 2000 rounds through which 500 I shot this past week in 2 days with 2 friens of mine.. I always havve luck or I should say the extraordinary experiences which 1 in a million have (good or bad). With that said, i PMR has worked great since I got despite putting whatever type of ammo through ot that I wanted.. I experienced jams every now and then but discovered it was usually my fault whereas I did pay special attention while loading 30 rounds in the clip which is difficult to do I should add. It is easy to cock a round alittle bit where it doesn’t seaat right and therefore doesn’t feed right thus a jam and my fault. Right now I have it apart in front of me cleaning it and can find nothing wrong with the gun and after 500 rounds it is not very dirty… One thing I can tell you is how accurrate this bad boy is.. I put a paper target up over 100 yds away at a public range in Ocala, FL which was about the size of a 1 gal can and after 30 rounds of relatively quick shooting found I hit the can about 20 times.. so did my friend.. I was as accurrate with my PMR than I was with my 22 rifle with a 4X scope.. (I don’t know if that is a good thing or bad).. I even got to rapid fire it several times and kick sand up all over that berm as i walked the rounds from the lower left to the upper right (it is a light gun with alittle bit of a kick… I love it and have dreams of owning 2 usingh them in a Bruce Willis shootout like “Last Man Standing”.. He was using acouple 1911 / 45′s… With this type of capacity, I could walk 100 yards down towards the bad guys and shoot them point blank range just using all those rounds to keep their heads down…… I wonder when somebody like KEL-TEC will come up with a similar gun using 17 HMR or a 22-50. I like high capacity with high velocity… Sounds like you just got a bad egg.. and it shouldn’t ruin the barrel.. either that or I got the exceptional gun.

    • Greg combs

      I purchased a PMR 30 two months ago,and have put 300 rounds through it, with no problems. It is a neat gun to shoot,light trigger pull, and surprisingly
      Accurate. I have had several offers to buy it, but just to much fun. Hit a can on the ground and you get all kind of action. I would like to have two.

    • Jeff Poole

      I took mine out to the range on the day I bought it. This thing failed to function on about every 3rd round. I used Winchester and Fiocchi. Cases were dented, bullets were split and one side depressed, one case burst before the action closed causing the slide release to fly over 2 tables to my left. I was lucky to be wearing glasses. Sold it immediately.

      • Richard

        YOU SOLD IT ??? HOW COULD YOU ??? Obviously if it acted this way immediately after buying it,something seriously was wrong with the gun and should have been returned to the gun shop or factory immeditately. Not only would you get all your money back but you wouldn’t risk another person’s life by selling a defective gun… These guns have been around for almost a decade witjhout a problem such as yours. Every gun is fired before it leaves the factory to be assured it’s safe and in good workingn order so if your gun did what you claim it is something never heard of from any gun company… It would be my advice to get in touch with whom ever you sold it to and infiormed them of the gun’s malfunction to avoid not only being liable civilly for their damages (injuries) but also being held criminally liable for selling a obviously defective gun.. Hopefully no body will be killed using this gun, speaking as ex law enforcement, you will be arrested and maybe charged with manslaughter (if your lucky) but most likely 2nd degree homicide since you had proir knowledge of the gun’s defect and sold it anyway.

  • http://firarmblog Paul

    My local gun shop is selling these babies for 850. Dollars. Must be pretty good if it’s in such a price markup demand. :) although I like the pistol I would for the price go and buy a good AR rifle.

  • Steve

    i loved my pmr-30 the best gun ever till sombody stole it i wish they stole my car instead