[Guest Post] .22 LR vs. .223 Rem.

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[ This guest post was written by Aaron Spuler ]

So what exactly is the difference between the .22LR and .223 cartridges? Both can be fired out of rifles, and both can be fired out of pistols. Both have been used historically by civilian and military shooters. Both can be used for hunting (.22LR for animals such as rats, squirrels, rabbits, ground hogs; .223 for larger animals including coyotes, and in some states deer). Both are extremely popular rounds — .22LR is by far the most popular rimfire cartridge, and .223 is near the top (if not at the top) of the list of most popular centerfire cartridges.

Well, there’s one difference right there. Rimfire is an older design, which for the most part has been replaced with centerfire. Almost all ammunition used now is centerfire. With rimfire, the firing pin impacts on the rim of the case. With centerfire, the firing pin impacts in the center of the case. Fairly self explanitory. But it doesn’t really explain the differences between the two cartridges very well.

As mentioned above, rimfire is an older technology than centerfire. The .22LR cartridge was introduced in 1887, while the .223 cartridge was designed in 1964, specifically for use in the M-16 rifle.

Nearly a century separates the two cartridges, but what makes them different? Size-wise, the newer cartridge is slightly larger. The caliber of the cartridge measures the diameter (in inches). So the newer cartridge is 0.003″ larger in diameter — who cares? A human hair is from 0.003″ to 0.005″ in diameter. Is such a slight increase in diameter really going to make a difference?

Below is a cardboard pizza box shot with a .22LR bullet. The entry point can be seen on the left and the exit on the right. A penny is used for reference.

Now compare that to the same exact pizza box shot with a .223 bullet. Again, the entry point can be seen on the left and the exit on the right, and a penny is used for reference.

Not much visible difference, right?

Instead of a cardboard pizza box, this time the target is a 16-gauge metal pipe. Notice that the pipe is visibly deformed at point of entry (left), and there is no exit point. The .22LR bullet did not pierce the metal pipe. A penny is used for reference.

Now compare that to the same exact 16-gauge metal pipe shot with a .223 bullet. There is a well defined entry point, and the bullet’s copper jacket peeled off upon entry and stuck. Not only did the .223 bullet have enough energy to pierce the front side of the pipe, it easily pierced the back side of the pipe as well. A penny is used for reference.

To understand why the .223 bullet was so easily able to pierce both sides of the metal pipe, and why the .22LR bullet failed to pierce even the front side of the pipe, a few other factors need to be looked at.

Rimfire cartridges have for the most part been replaced by centerfire cartridges because the thin case walls of rimfires cannot handle nearly as high of pressures as those of a centerfire cartridge. Higher pressure means that the ejected bullet has more energy to deliver on its target because its velocity is greater.

The bullets also vary in size and shape. Availability for .22LR bullets varies from 36 to 60 grains in weight (2.3 to 3.9 grams), while .223 bullets range from 40 to 90 grains in weight (2.6 to 5.8 grams). The .22LR bullet is rounded while the .223 bullet comes to a sharp point.

The .223 cartridge contains significantly more powder than the .22LR cartridge (maximum pressure 24,000 PSI for .22LR; maximum pressure 50,000 PSI for .223). The .223 bullet is a much heavier bullet, travelling at a higher velocity. This means that the .223 bullet has much more energy to deliver on its target.

Upon impact .223 bullets demonstrate a tendency to tumble, increasing the size of the wound channel. The .223 bullet also delivers additional damage due to hydrostatic shock. The .22LR bullet has neither of these qualities.

The .22LR cartridge on the left, and the .223 cartridge on the right. A penny is used for reference.

For demonstration purposes, other calibers were shot at the cardboard pizza box and 16-gauge metal pipe. Entry point can be seen on the left and exit on the right. A penny is used for reference.

9mm NATO
9mm NATO

45ACP

.45 ACP

.45 ACP
7.62x39mm
7.62x39mm
From left to right: 45ACP, 9mm NATO, .22LR, .223, 7.62x39mm
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  • ASterisk

    Interesting that the .45 didn’t even pierce the pipe. I would not have expected that

  • Máté

    Thanks for this article!

  • wjs4

    That was a great comparison. Any chance you could do a follow-up and add .22 magnum and 5.7x28mm? I think those are two more similar sized rounds to .22 and .223 that are supposed to have different profiles or uses.

  • John

    Um, is any of this novel?

    Nice pics, though.

  • ht4

    Thanks, I always wondered what te difference between these two rounds ways… and imagine my surprise to learn how much more powerful the .223 was over the .22. All this time I though it was only .003 more powerful!

  • Ryan

    Why did the 9mm penetrate so much more than the .45 ACP?

  • Chris

    So .22LR is actually .224 at the neck of the round. It’s all negligible, but, if your going to call out size difference, it works to do the research.

    • cody

      because the 9mm has a higher velocity it penetrates deeper but with less energy the 45 is more powerful

  • Laenhart

    I love articles like this. Thank you very much!
    It is also interesting to see how similar the entry holes for 9mm and 45ACP – there really is almost no difference. Even stranger to see how close those two are to 7.62×39.

  • http://@BellumLetale EODguy

    You forgot to say “a penny is used for reference” for the full set of pictures.

  • Alex

    Isn’t the .45 a bigger round than the 9mm ? So how did the 9mm pierce the metal pipe but not the .45 ?

  • Zach

    Ryan and Alex, the .45 having a bigger front profile is going to make it harder to penetrate, as it’s energy is dispersed over a wider area. That, plus it’s lower speed makes the difference. It’d be like the difference in trying to drive a nail through wood versus trying to drive a piece of re-bar through wood.

  • Evan

    Wouldn’t the difference between the two be self-evident? 150ftbls. vs. 1,300ftlbs?

    Why not compare the .22lr against the 22.250 too?

  • Max

    To those with question about the 9mm and the 45: The 9mm is a higher pressure round and has a smaller frontal section and that helps with penetration over the .45 that has a bigger frontal section and is a much lower pressure/slower round. When we talk about penetrating power a smaller, faster round is much more optimal.

  • GeoffH

    I’m not surprised the .45 didn’t pierce the pipe. It has a larger cross-section and lower velocity, so it isn’t suited to penetrating hard targets. Try driving a blunt large diameter nail into thin metal with a hammer. Try the same with a blunt small diameter nail. Which goes in easier? You can deliver the same force with the hammer, but the cross-section makes a big difference in penetration.

  • Tam 212

    Velocity? 9mm NATO is 124gr. ball loaded to slightly above SAAMI +P pressure (~36,000 psi). Chrono’s 1,200+ fps at the muzzle, if I recall.

    .45 Auto in the archetypical load of 230gr. ball chrono’s around 850fps at the muzzle…

  • http://www.debunkers.org/ SPQR

    The bullet / caliber data for the cartridges is incorrect. A common mistake is to think that the name of a cartridge is a correct measurement of the caliber. Hence, .300 Win Mag, .30-06, .308 Win …. but all are actually the exact same caliber by measurement.

  • Jim

    “Isn’t the .45 a bigger round than the 9mm ? ”

    Bigger =! better penetrator. In fact, the wider the round, the more force it will take to make it penetrate a given surface.

  • Harry

    Coming to TFB soon… .32ACP v .325WSM penetration testing: which one is better for hunting steel pipes? A dime will be used for reference.

  • http://ambivalentskeptic.wordpress.com/ Clint1911

    Pressure does NOT directly relate to velocity.

    The 308 win. has a pmax of 62,000 psi.
    The 30-06 has a pmax of 60,000 psi.

    The 30-06 STILL has higher velocities. It is the combination of pressure and case size that determines speed.

    And “pressure” has nothing at all to do with down-range performance because the “pressure” is no longer acting on the bullet at that distance from the barrel.

    Furthermore, penetration in one medium does NOT always translate to penetration in another medium.

    A 22-250 penetrates steel better than a 30-06. But the 30 cal will go though the broad side of an elk.

    The 223 Rem is better on steel than the 45-70. The 223 will barely go though the hide of a bison. The 45-70 will go completely though such an animal.

  • MarcW

    Velocity is crucial for penetrating non-brittle hard barriers. Hence .45 is a very poor performer in this respect. There’s a WW2 era instructional video showing it bounce off a steel helmet at short range.

  • Nadnerbus

    The .45 vs. the 9mm pictures actually demonstrate why the .45 tends to be a better man stopper. Where the 9mm, at least when using full metal jacket rounds, has the potential to pass clean through a human target, a .45 is more apt to dump all of its energy in the target. Maximum penetration is not always the most desired result from a bullet/cartridge combination. Also, think of over-penetration in a home defense setting, and the possible negative outcomes therein.

  • Nigel Cupcake

    Nice comparison techniques and photos.

    However, with all due respect, are there people out there confusing the properties of the .22 LR and the .223 Rem?

    Judging from the cartridges’ shapes and sizes, probably no one would mistaken which one’s more powerful and damaging.

    OP has good attention to detail though. Perhaps comparisons between popular pistol rounds would be much more interesting.

    Good work :)

  • G

    .223, in .223 Remington, does not denote the diameter of the bullet. .223 Remington and 5.56×45 NATO use .224″ (5.7mm) bullets. Other cartridges that use .224″ bullets are .221 Remington Fireball, .222 Remington, .22-250 Remington, .224 Weatherby Magnum and 5.7×28.

    .22LR on the other hand uses .223″ bullets.

  • michael

    The idea that any handgun bullet is going to “dump energy” into the bad guy, at least in an incapacitating way, is really just urban legend. So-called stopping power of a bullet is ALWAYS related to whatever vital parts are hit. Martin Fackler tells the tale of a cop who was killed from a .22 after shooting the bad guy 4 times with his .357 magnum. The .357 only penetrated non-critical tissue, while the .22 hit a major artery and the cop bled to death. The bad guy who was hit multiple times with the .357 bullet is now in jail.

  • MarcW

    @Nadnerbus
    Energy dump is a myth. Read “handgun wounding factors and effectiveness” and try not to spin every sentence to confirm your pre-hold opinions while you’re at it.

  • Nathaniel

    I liked the part where he never mentioned velocity.

  • JMD

    A comparison with 5.45x39mm would also be nice.

  • MarcW

    @Michael:
    here’s a short report to that incident
    http://www.odmp.org/officer/420-trooper-mark-hunter-coates

  • Nadnerbus

    Meh. I’m not going to get into an internet caliber war. Shot placement is more important than caliber no doubt. Sorry if my opinion offended you. Have a good day.

  • Pedro

    I found that pretty interesting.

    “Accepted wisdom”, especially about firearms and their capabilities, can often lead down the wrong path. Nice to see a non technical comparison piece with photos like this.

    Well done.

  • Nadnerbus

    Actually, after reading up, you are completely right. That’s what I get for repeating the “common wisdom” I’ve read elsewhere without looking deeper into it. Though while .45 and 9mm seem to have roughly equal penetration in ballistic gel, with the .45 having the edge, 9mm does seem to be more prone to “over penetrate” drywall, lumber, sheet metal, that kind of thing.

    Please don’t assume malice when ignorance is a more likely explanation. =)

    http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

  • G

    SPQR:
    “Hence, .300 Win Mag, .30-06, .308 Win …. but all are actually the exact same caliber by measurement.”

    Yes, cartridge names are quite confusing.
    Sometimes the number in a cartridge name stands for diameter of the bullet (e.g. .308 Winchester and 7.82 (.308) Lazzeroni Warbird).
    Sometimes it stands for the diameter of the rifling of the barrel (e.g. 7.62×51 and .300 Winchester Magnum).
    But the number might also just be a number that is close to rifling or bullet diameter. (e.g. .307 Winchester, which is a semi rimmed version of .308W for lever action rifles).

    One might think that a cartridge with a name like 7.62×39 would have the same bullet diameter as 7.62×51 but they have actually different bullet diameters. Russian 7.62mm cartridges use .312″ (7.92mm) bullets. Western 7.62mm cartridges use .308″ (7.82mm) bullets. (But sometimes 7.62×39 is loaded with .308″ bullets in the West).

    Some cartridge names consists of two numbers seperated by a dash e.g. .30-06 Springfield, .45-70 Government, 7mm-08 Remington, 22-250 Remington and .250-3000 Savage.
    -06, in .30-06, is short for the year 1906.
    -70, in .45-70, stands for 70 grains of gun powder (which was the amount of gun powder the original cartridge had).
    -08, in 7mm-08, indicates that the parent cartridge is .308 Winchester
    -250, in .22-250, indicates that the parent cartridge is .250 Savage (also know as .250-3000 Savage).
    -3000, in .250-3000 Savage, stands for the muzzle velocity, in feet per second, the original cartridge was supposed to have.

  • Tyson Chandler

    It seems that there are a lot of negative comments directed toward this guest post. While I apperciate the concern for technical accuracy, I think that Aaron should also be recognized for the effort it took to make this guest post. I am sure that the shooting, writing, editing, photographing and posting all took their fair share of time. I find the photographic comparisons interesting and entertaining. Thank you Aaron for your time and effort that were involved with this post.

  • Clodboy

    I really liked the comparison of the 9mm vs the .45 acp.

    Don’t get me wrong, the .45 is a battle-tested round that has proven its effectiveness time and time again, but some people act like it is the end-all, be-all of cartridges that is ideal for any situation, while the 9mm is a glorified pea shooter and the .40 S&W is just a neutered 10mm and thus completely useless.

    That said, in a home defense scenario, the huge wound channel created by the .45 is obviously preferable to the penetration capabilities of smaller-caliber cartridges.

    As for the energy-dump theory: While there is some truth to it – more energy transferred means more tissue being squished – it’s also important *which* tissue is getting destroyed. Glaser safety slugs (essentially hollow-points filled with pellets that are released upon impact) offer excellent energy transfer, yet they never caught on because of the insufficient penetration depth (heck, in the worst case, the bullet may simply dump a good part of its energy in a perp’s thick winter clothing)

  • http://www.weapon-blog.com Aaron Spuler

    Thanks Tyson.

    I’m just a regular average guy. I don’t have access to all the firearms that folks asked for comparisons with in the comments. Nor do I have access to a chronograph or any sophisticated tools. I just did some shooting with the guns available to me and made some observations. It’s humbling to see the wealth of knowledge out there, and reminds me how much I still have to learn.

  • Anointedsword
  • michael

    @ MarcW: Thanks for the link. Very sad whenever a good guy loses to a bad.

  • tincankilla

    classic case of comparing apples to oranges, when you can only draw interesting comparisons between similar fruits. so while i had some of the same chuckles over comparing the .22 to a .22, i read all the way to the end!

    definitely was surprised by the .45 not penetrating the pipe, too. that said, i’m a crappy shot with most 9mm i’ve had my hands on and a dead eye with .45acp. think it’s the snappy recoil and/or the smaller frame sizes of the nines.

  • JMD

    Felt recoil begins (for all practical purposes) after the bullet leaves the barrel. Where the bullet goes is determined by what the firearm’s operator does up until that point, FWIW….

  • Anon

    Next up! .40SW vs. 10mm Auto!

  • Gabe

    I was under the impression that the .45 ACP produced significantly more hydrostatic shock than the 9x19mm Parabellum……
    And if ‘energy dump’ is a myth than why do hollow point rounds have increased lethality in human beings at close range as opposed to standard jacketed ammunition? (Not trying to be hostile, I’m just asking a question because I’m confused.)

    • Siakol

      Hollow point tips tends to opened up upon impact to body leaving more damage to the organs or tissue.

    • John Whizz

      I feel like a mouse being “baited” by a bunch of scientists who just want to see how stupid a response they can get from a novice….here comes my stupid response…. 1) Energy dump is only one part of lethality. Even a .22 short is lethal if it creates a hole in a vital organ like the brain. Same as shoving in an icepick…..even if an icepick only travels at 5 ft. / sec…. it’s lethal if it penetrates the cerebellum… even in a frog…..remember high school? Wish you were a frog? 2) At close range (i.e., point blank), even a small round can penetrate the human body. If it’s FMJ, it can go right through without striking a vital organ, maybe only muscle (shoulder wound). The objective of hollow point is to expand on impact to ensure the full energy is applied to the “target”. So quit being obviously hostile and baiting. The comparison here is between .223 and .22 LR. The author made it extremely clear the .223 is much more lethal than the .22 LR, depending on the situation of course. If you were a marksman like in the movies, either bullet can kill. But if your life depends on which is most lethal, I’d stick with the .223….

  • Kent J

    Hydrostatic shock is a myth, and hollow points have increased lethality because they mushroom out and leave a wider wound cavity. Read that link that Nadnerbus posted, I found it very informative.

    • John Whizz

      You’re a myth. Laws of physics – F= M x V (sq.) Force = Mass x Velocity squared.

      A 10 g. bullet at 1000 ft./ sec = 1/4 of the impact of a 10 g. bullet @ 2000 ft. /sec. , velocity squared.

  • JMD

    Gabe- the increased surface area upon expansion allows hollow point bullets to force their way through more tissue. The more tissue that is contacted, the higher the likelihood that some part of the bullet will break something the target needed to stay alive and healthy.

    There are only two basic categories of tissue in any mammal, that can be counted on to stop it when they’re hit. Those are some part of the central nervous system, and a major part of the circulatory system: brain, spinal cord, heart, and major blood vessels. Compared to overall size those are all fairly small, so the more surface area the projectile has, the better.

  • Lp

    Aaron. Good job. As you said, there is always more to learn and the shooting sports field is over-run with details and the endless arguments over them. All of us who shoot have developed our own “correct” opinions based on our experiences, and most of us have something useful to add to the discussion.Your efforts sure stirred up the ant hill! I liked Harry’s comment the best! Keep enjoying the shooting sports, safely!

  • http://www.houseboatrentalcenter.com mark

    Your article was just what I was looking for to explain the differences between the .223 and .22. The other caliber comparisons were also extremely informative and helpful. Thanks!

  • daveq

    hey good job on producing original content.

  • Jack

    Thanks for the informative well illustrated article. Kudos

  • Arthur Guess

    Thanks for great research and surprising results. A lot of people like to debate which is best, which is more powerful etc. but as you have shown some differences aren’t what people were expecting according to comments left. I think it best to think of them all as works of art. You can’t really say any one is better than the other, it all depends on what you want to use it for. You can’t fairly compare apples to oranges when you are partial to oranges. I like both and pick what I want based on if I feel the ‘need’ for an apple or orange. I approach my gun collection in much the same way. All depending on what my needs are for that day of shooting.

  • http://azooooz.com/vb/member.php?u=221 Garry Munno

    Not to be mean, but this is rather ugly. A smoother implementation could be built with wget(which is already in most distros), and a bit of any given scripting language to digest the page… grep works fine, especially in simple cases, but most hacks of this nature will require a great deal more complexity in deciphering the page.

  • Trax

    Aaron, nice article and artwork. Thanks for taking the time to do this. I have been involved in shooting sports for over 50 years, and still found a surprise or two – i.e., neither the 9mm nor the .45 ACP penetrated both layers of the metal. I think I’ll do some work of this nature on my own, some day. Happy shooting, brother.

  • labillyboy

    Thanks, exactly what I was looking for to show the holes in a target are essentially the same from a .22 or a .223. The rest of the information was interesting too.

  • ali awan

    awesome information.
    dear sir can we use .22 lr for self defence ? .22 lr m4 design rifle is good for self defence

  • b f

    Well done, appreciate the work you did to describe the differences between the calibers as I have handguns but am looking to add a rifle to the collection. .22 rimfire ammo is so inexpensive I felt like that would be a good addition to do some target practice and have around in case all hell breaks loose (AKA major earthquake) here in CA. Might have to consider the .223 more highly. I saw a Mossberg 223 that looked fabulous, wasn’t sure what the difference was. I was surprised to see my favorite .45 ACP didn’t penetrate the metal. Again, great info, keep up the good work!

    • mikey

      the 45 and 9mm are not supposed to exit, they are supposed to punch the “target” down. a bullet to simply pass thru does very little damage, even if it goes thru a lung. so the 45 and 9 have lower velocity and squish on contact to cause a large damage path inside. small hole in slightly larger out. the .223 is designed to tumble when it encounters something hard. the pipe was a good demonstration, but in actual use the exit could be anywhere…I would assume the pipe was shot at close range where velocity was still high. the Army went to the 45 because the then standard 38 would not take down a Mauri warrier in the Phillipines. the army is now at the 9 mm because it is exchangeable with out allies and easier to aim.

      • http://thefirearmblog.com MarkE

        Moro warriors were in the PI. Maori warriors are from NZ. Close though.

  • jane

    This info was more than helpful to me. Thanks for showing more calibers along with the intended two. I see my favorite did well (7.62X39) but am impressed with 223. thanks again. jane

  • G.B

    Appreciate the write-up, I learned a lot.

  • http://9gag.com Thomm

    you just wanted to take a picture of your penny and shoot guns!

    • Smith

      So, umm, do you think he used a penny for reference?

      • Lp

        This comparison of the .22LR and the .223 is a bit awkward and disjointed, from my perspective. I accept that mine is not the only valid perspective. From the replies, this post has been useful to several people-which is good, as any clarification about firearms is desirable. I am a life-long shooter and hunter, NRA Life member, BSA shooting sports director, NRA certified instructor, Cal. DFG hunter ed instructor, anon anon anon… my training philosophy is, “SAFETY, FUN, SKILLS” in that order. I love to shoot, and to teach others (especially young folks) the safe, responsible and skillful use of guns.
        The fact that both cartridges use a .22 caliber bullet is about all that they have in common. The .22LR rimfire uses soft lead bullets (even the copper plated ones), is barely supersonic, and is wonderfully useful for target, small game and fun shooting. It is inexpensive, not too loud and has little recoil, making it the perfect training/beginner’s gun. I use a LOT of .22LR ammo for training and fun shooting.
        The .223 is a high-velocity (nearly triple-sonic) round intended for military, small-to-medium game hunting and longer range target use. It is more expensive, much louder and has a bit of recoil in light rifles (although not nearly as much as more powerful rounds). It is a fun round to use for plinking (informal target shooting) also. It uses a jacketed bullet whose penetration characteristics are largely due to its high velocity, as all high velocity rifle bullets show SIMILAR penetration in metal and other target materials. Note that shooting metal targets offers a few extra hazards, in that at closer ranges, bullet fragments and target pieces can often revisit the firing line. Always think ahead on these things and use eye protection. Be safe and have fun!

  • sirius

    You forgot that most .223s, being ARs, usually jam after 8 or 9 rounds whereas the .22 LR almost never jams. Most important lesson of Vietnam War!

    • John

      My AR has NEVER jammed. I’ve put HUNDREDS of rounds through it.

      • Chris

        Same here, I just took my AR-15 to the range last week and pumped about 210 bullets or 7 magazines into a target and I didn’t jam once, so whatever that dude is doing with his .223′s he’s obviously not doing it right

        • trashedr6

          He is not necessarily doing something wrong, several factors can cause a jam. Like stated earlier, the type of casing, metal mags can put dents in a thin casing causing a jam.

      • mikey

        the early AR16s did jam in Viet Nam quite often. The redesigned the magazine and added the plunger to set the magazine better with the M16A1. But you are correct, the M16 still has jam problems, mostly because of the magazine being made of stamped metal and problems with it being dented. a bunch of people in Afghanistan were using commerical self bought plastic composite mags that never failed, even after being run over by bradleys. but the army made the troops get rid of them because it wasnt army reg. nothing ever changes, eh?

      • John Whizz

        The jamming of AR-15′s is now a legend, like The Lone Ranger and Tonto. After 60 years, don’t you think the arms mfgs. could make corrections????

        • John Whizz

          P.S. – There are a LOT of novices putting together their own AR15 parts because it’s cheaper to buy the parts and put them together, than to buy a complete with a warranty. And they don’t test them well enough. So if they misfire because the uppers and lowers aren’t compatible, there’s another black mark for AR15 reliability.

  • Bzipper

    Excellent post. I am not a gun enthusiast. I am not a NRA member but very firmly on the side of the 2nd amendment. Now the senseless tragedy in Newtown,CT. is on everyones mind and they specified .223 as the primary ammo used. Not knowing any better, I asumed the .223 and .22 were essentially the same. Your post clearly proved me wrong and has been very enlightening. I Know a .22 can and will kill a person however, I thought for sure there would have been more injured than killed. Seeing the impact of the .223 clarify’s those thoughts.

    • The Professor

      Just FYI, people are not made of lead pipe. Any of the rounds pictured in this article would have done just as much damage (if not more) to a human than the .223 round.

      • afadsf

        except of course the .22lr… hence the article

    • chuckyplz

      I thought the killer only use the 9mm and he left the AR in the car. So many facts have changed over the course of the investigation so I am truly unsure if the AR was used.

    • Red

      .22 can sometimes be worse as once it enters the body it tends to bounce around in there and go all over the place, where as a .223 tends to go straight through…so if vital organs are missed, you can still survive.

      • Al

        Get your facts strait, it’s the opposite of what you’re saying

      • Darin

        As someone who has had the Misfortune of being on the Wrong End of a Gun, Red is Right, Any Bullet in the Right or Wrong area, depending upon your perspective can kill, Especially if it hits a vital organ. If it a larger caliber bullet, and hits a vital organ, of course it will cause much more significant damage, more than likely fatal. But often since the smaller bullets tend to travel the path of least resistance, they can take an irregular path through ones body, penetrating multiple organs and tissue, leaving a trail of distruction. Furthermore, since many do not exit the body, as with the larger caliber bullets, If one is to servive, they medical staff have to not only repair the damage cause, but find the evasive bullet. As a matter of reference, I was shot 3 times at point blank range, during a robbery with a .38 cal revolver- one bullet went in and out one hand, one bullet hit in the chest, and lacked only 1/4 of an inch before it would have exited, I carried it around for a year or more before having it removed. But one hit me in my lower side, and traveled from left to right, hitting all organs in its path, finally going through my aorta, nicking my Vena-cava- before coming to rest on my spine. Any one could have killed me, But my lord was good to me that day!

    • Jim Feislur

      Sandy
      hook was total bs… Have you seen any blood, any bodies , anything?
      They have hidden the autopsy reports , they lied about the weapons they
      lied about not running a drill on the same day, same area. Where are the
      gdamn videos of Adam Lanza doing anything? Smh…

  • Pat

    Are those just giant, novelty sized pennies?

  • pdbh

    Hi all,
    I would like to add something that is too often left out. Besides the caliber of the bullet it self, one must facture in the “cartrige” itself. The size AND shape is relevent to the rounds performance. Look at the .22lr and the .223 centerfile “cartrige”….BIG differance! The cartrige is the combustion chamber and it does make a differance in the bullets performance.

    I didnt realize this until I began reloading….. and I am a shotgunner (hell son, nothings more accurate than a scattergun,….my ‘Pa’).

    But I prefer a .69 slug….lol. It MAY NOT penatrate….but it will knock you DOWN.

  • LJS2000

    Very good information, I guess ALL 22lr ‘s are rimfire. When they say AR15 style rifle I was thinking M-16. I remember the 22lr for my Ruger 10/22, and the center point I used to load into my M-16. Now I know what weapons to look for now. Good job.

  • http://www.facebook.com/amos.persons Amos Persons

    Great post!

  • John

    Am retired military with two assignments to South East Asia. I had the same
    question and I applaud Arons explanation and visible displays, very
    professional.
    John Walsh

  • sight alignment-sight picture

    Calibers are like religion to some. Don’t argue with the .357 Sig, .41 mag, 10mm, or .45 GAP guys. Just remember you’re sending a hunk of lead through the air at a target. The only variables between calibers are the size & shape of the hunk of lead and the speed it travels. The important thing is hitting the target. A hit with a .22 LR beats a miss with a .50 BMG any day.

  • Pohknee

    I would like to know what is the difference between being shot with a 223 at 150-200 yards versus a 22LR at 10-15 feet. Assuming a boat tail 55 grain 223 and a 40 grain 22LR. Since that is an assumed typical range for each weapon, what is the difference in impact velocity?

    • Gabe1972

      The .223 would be around 2300fps at 200 yards and the 22LR would be around 1250fps at 10 feet for high velocity rounds, which is pretty much the standard .22LR round. And actually, 10-15 feet would be a bit short for the typical range for a .22LR. Typical would probably be 50 to 100 feet, although some people shoot them out to 150 yards or so, but that’s pushing it with a .22LR. Either way, the .223 is still going to be carrying much more energy at any distance compared to a .22LR. Even at 500 yards the .223 will still be carrying more energy than a .22LR at the muzzle.

    • tonka

      Nothing, both are dead if they hit the intended target.