I think the shrapnel pattern’s fine, you can actually still see a lot of it impacting the target (it was apparent to me anyway) even if it detonated like a yard or two away, so I think that the system’s pretty good

In spite of appearances, the forward velocity is probably irrelevant. The round leaves the barrel at less than 700 feet per second (presumably much less when it reaches the target), while the velocity of fragments from the grenade would be in the region of 5,000-10,000 feet per second, so there will only be a slight difference in damage between targets forward and to the rear of the detonation point.

I saw another video too. The XM-25 looks like it kicks like a mule to the shooter.

Not impress. You have a grenade going off point blank range in front of the manikin and it didn’t blew it head right off.

Is the shrapnel made out of birdshots because it look like it at my end.

Unlike flash bang you won’t have people going in for the kill.

The dispersion pattern from the ADR is in a forward cone covering a little less than 180 degrees. For it to be of optimal effectiveness, the round has to detonate so the target is within the cone, yet without any intervening barriers. The problem with these weapons, as used in combat, is that their effectiveness is largely unknown. To date, no casualties have been recovered during the application of the weapons in theater. We simply don’t know how effective they are or what kind of counter measures may be available or developed to render them ineffective.

Are we seriously comparing this thing to a flash/bang launcher and not also howling outrage about its lack of utility?

If it doesn’t blast everything to smithereens on a near-miss, it’s a fail. Flash/bang from far enough away to regain orientation and return fire seems . . . not so useful.

That’ll be the M320 (M203 replacement) with stock fitted;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M320_grenade_launcher

@Ryan, the thing in the background at 0:55 is a stand alone M320 40mm grenade launcher.

I think some of the readers here have too seen a few too many Hollywood movies and believe that grenades actually detonate with huge fireballs. A grenade doesn’t kill by means of sheer explosive force and blow things to smithereens, it’s not a bomb, instead it’s meant to kill through shrapnel. In the case of the XM-25 it’s meant to be a precision fire weapon that allows to send a 25mm grenade to a precise point, like at an insurgent taking cover behind a second story window and sending that grenade through the window to detonate right in front of his face. Will it blow his head off, no, but a face full of shrapnel from a 25mm grenade will sure ruin his day and being relatively small, the blast radius isn’t too large so that if there are any civilians in the building with the insurgent there’s a goo chance that they won’t catch much, if any, of the shrapnel unlike a conventional grenade.

Another thing that came to my mind. I’m on patrol in a town. We’re being attacked from a prepared position. What am I going to do?

Dig and, get whoever is lugging this thing around and have them open up? Allowing the enemy, who certainly knows the area, to eventually get to me? Or will I flank first and get a normal frag grenade into their position?

I’m for not losing initiative.

Also, that thing means that one of my soldiers would not carry an assault rifle. If he would, he’d be bogged down by too much weight. Plus, it doesn’t strike me as a weapon that can quickly react to changing conditions like, let’s say, a SAW.

Yeah, I’m not really convinced of it. For some peacekeeping stuff, maybe, but for real combat… I don’t know.

Nice that they’re still teaching follow-through. Or is it really that high tech that the targeting system takes care of everything?

Riceball,

It’s about penetration. When you have a grenade going off in front of the face I expect serious damage. That not even the case in the video. If it can’t kill what the use of carrying it? There are reasons why 40mm are prefer.

Again what will the Platoon/Squad leader replace in order to fit this weapon in the group? Rifleman? Grenadier? Automatic Rifleman? That’s a lot of firepower a Platoon or Squad is giving up for a weapon that does too little.

You guys are missing the big picture. This weapon allows for the defeat of an enemy BEHIND cover from 500 meters away. You must be some sort of supermen to throw an m67 that far.
This could be a total game changer. Go ahead and manuever your fire team while under direct fire, then have someone break cover to move up to throwing range of the target, then throw and hope they don’t miss. God help them if they are throwing to a second or third story window. If they do miss that grenade is coming right back down on em.
Me, I’m going to nod to the guy in my squad who is humping this to take his shot, then we are gonna chuckle (maybe even giggle; infantry units can be strange) when the boom goes off.
Hell, even in a movement to contact scenario in open terrain this thing has crazy potential. Most skirmish lines don’t have much depth so you could laze a tree next to one guy and then fire off a spread along the whole line. I can’t wait to get my hands on this thing.

I think your math is wrong man. A sphere with a surface area of 452 square meters would have a diameter of 12 meters not 6.

Brad,

Have you seen the pattern for a hand grenades? It’s very impressive. It does what it suppose to do, kill the enemies.

No one is complaining about the lethality of the 40mm.

Both does it job well in regards to its scope.

Bill,

At 500m you call in CAS, film and put it on youtube.

@ Bill

Sphere with radius of 6m (ie from burst point), not sphere of diameter of 6m meters.

Grenades are quoted as burst RADIUS.

“A sphere with a surface area of 452 square meters would have a diameter of 12 meters not 6″.

The surface area of a sphere is given by the following formula

Area = 4 x pi x radius square.

Area = 4 x 3.1415 x 6 x 6

Area = 452m2

I think my math is right man. Your assumption is wrong.

Just for your information (and to show I am a morbid soul) I have the real world results of a grenade explosion in Australia.

http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/may19/nocera/nocera.html

A F1 grenade exploded during production. Remember it has 4000 2.5mm steel balls, a 6 meter lethal radius and 15 meter injury radius. Only 4 of the 7 present were injured. All survived, just.

http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/may19/nocera/nocbox.html

At 6m radius a 375g F1 grenade has about 9.5 fragments per meter. A XM-25 grenade shell is only about 100-120g. Even if you assume that that shell breaks perfectly into 2.5mm bits thats only 1000 fragments (which it won’t because it has to have walls thick enough to survive firing), the lethal radius will only be 3m (radius).

The xm-25 is great in theory but fragmentation has lower lethality than bullets. During WW2 2/3 of wounds were due to fragments, but 2/3 of deaths were due to small arms. It depends on your aim (no pun intended). Unless you hit with a meter or two of the target the effects will be disappointing.

http://history.amedd.army.mil/booksdocs/wwii/woundblstcs/default.htm

“A F1 grenade exploded during production. Remember it has 4000 2.5mm steel balls, a 6 meter lethal radius and 15 meter injury radius. Only 4 of the 7 present were injured. All survived, just.”

… thanks to prompt evacuation to adequate medical treatment facilities which no doubt bear no resemblance to those available to the intended targets of the XM25. I don’t think this is a fair representation of battlefield reality.

“Unless you hit with a meter or two of the target the effects will be disappointing.”

Isn’t this the point of the XM25′s intricate targeting system? In order to achieve a portable weapon that could fire at high enough velocity for a reasonable flat trajectory, the size of the round was always going to be a compromise, and I agree that fragment size and number is no doubt limited. However the trend these days is towards weapon systems that are accurate enough not to need a warhead that can level the whole neighbourhood.

A 40mm grenade would no doubt make a bigger bang and cause more casualties over a wider radius, but it’s unlikely that its rainbow-like trajectory would allow it to make use of precision fusing, as a lower velocity larger projectile it would be more prone to environmental factors which the targeting system would not necessarily compensate for.

@BBMG

A far, far simpler solution is a 30mm UBGL with a laser ranger and fuse setter (STK and IMI already have 40mm variants).

30mm long cylinder shell (better frag’ pattern),
with air-burst base fuse (of the 25mm shell)
same weight as 40mm (bigger bang than 25mm),
but better BC than 40mm (but not as good as 25mm),
gives longer range with the same kick (LV 500m, MV 700m)
with a midway trajectory (better for air-burst, shooting fragments downwards & forwards into target).

Put it in a lightweight composite UGL and add it to a 6.5mm rifle.

A simple cheap OIWS (Objective Individual Weapons System).