Mossberg Blackwater branded shotguns
Of all the weird guns at SHOT Show, none left me more puzzled than Mossberg's new range of Blackwater branded shotguns.
It puzzles me because the Blackwater name has long since ceased to exist. In 2009, amidst multiple legal battles, the company renamed themselves as Xe Services. The name Blackwater is now an archaism harking back to the golden age of security contractors.
The name must still move guns off shelves or Mossberg would not be using it. I am not one of Backwater's detractors, but still I cannot figure out why Mossberg would want to associate themselves with such a publicly tainted brand name - so tainted that it has been long since abandoned by Blackwater itself.
Mossberg has not released pricing for the Blackwater shotguns.
I just received my 930spx… I wasn’t sure why the “Blackwater” logo was on it, but it doesn’t bother me a bit… I am really amazed on how the weapon feels and shoots. I just wish we had these weapons when I was patroling the streets for 25 years.. As a retired Law Enforcement Officer I can just about promise the public that the “Blackwater” logo won’t cause any one to consider the over throw of our goverment.
If you like the weapon, buy it, use it and enjoy it…. “God Bless”
Everyone bitching on here is the problem with the country. When you wage war civilians will die…always have…always will….you attack a country, not just who you think is bad in the country!!! When you do that you die!!! Look back to vietnam, that’s when this hippie shit started. It’s all or nothing in war…Just my 2 cents……sweet gun mossberg!!
Dang – checking this thing out online and it look like a great shotgun. It appears to be parkerized, has better sights than the standard 590 A1 ghost ring sights, and – well I could care less about the rail – it is a shotgun after all – but those sights are nice.
The thing is, I remember Xe in Afghanistan – and they weren’t nice. The whole Blackwater name kind of signifies “douche bag” more than anything else. Not that they weren’t great with guns and with intimidating people – just that they weren’t usually good guys – could also be that like many other Marines, I was annoyed to learn what they were being paid for what they were doing.
To buy or not to buy…or just get a standard 590 A1 with crappier sights – strange they would put better sights on a shotgun with some stupid logo on it than on the standard models.
Poser gun. Tacky at that. Many of you can look past it, but I wont buy a gun thats branded with a company name that i dont work for. If i saw somebody else with it id probably assume they were compensating for their lack of military service with tacticool. Go ahead give me a thumbs down.
Johnny,
I can totally see your point of not wanting any other affiliation with other Armed forces except your own but for the rest of us who do not have earned badges with in a specific service we actually take pride in all that defend our country.
Unfortunately for you this is a great shooting gun.
I like the Blackwater edition because it has better quality sights and rails for mounting stuff if I want to down the road. I used to live in the high desert by the boarder and there were rattlesnakes and both two legged and four legged coyotes all over the place.
I was assaulted twice out there and felt I would have been even more had I not worn and shown arms. And the only reason I am alive is because of my Browning Hi Power that I used to wear, or the old shotgun I used to carry at night.
This shotgun is not offered in this configuration without the Blackwater logo. It is in fact the Blackwater Edition. So maybe it’s tacti-cool to you guys, but I’ll tell you what, it CAN be useful as hell to have a gun set up that way, and it’s a cheap way to get one. It doesn’t cost much more than the one without rails, in fact, at the moment it seems about the same as the older models are phasing out and the Blackwater is saturating the market.
I don’t give a darn what it says on the side. If they can read it they are either friends or in my sights.
Databyter
Databyter, your reply to this thread is spot on. I hear more bullsh** on blogs like this, mostly from wanna be spec ops idiots. I just purchased this gun, & did a search online to see what others thought about it- the responses & comments in this thread shouldn’t surprise me, but as always- I’m an optimist. The 590 Blackwater has every option on it you could want from Mossberg in a 590, & some you may not, but based on the price as you stated, why would ou not buy it? Because someone might think you are trying to be Mr tacticool as they call it? Who gives a sh** what other people think, or what logo is on the side of it? World War II firearms and antiques are worth a fortune, and I can understand why some people may not want a Nazi logo on the side of anything, but the Blackwater logo, come on- this is just stupid. I have no doubt the Blackwater logo on the side of this shotgun will not hurt the value down the road, more than likely, it will be worth more- that’s a valid enough reason to buy it alone.
Purely as a useful or practical shotgun, this thing has it all- if I was a “Tacticool” jerk off, I wold have bought one of those shotguns with a pistol grip, AR stock, and full top rail, or some stupid folding stock (ok, so now it’s 36″ long instead of 40″?) these features are pretty much completely useless. The logo on the gun had nothing to do with my wanting to buy it- as you stated, the only way you can get this combination of features is to by this exact model. For an extra $100, you get Ghost ring sites, speed-feed stock, rails for lights, its parkerized, & as with every other 590 20″ barrel, it holds 9 shots!
For those that think it’s stupid, don”t buy it- just don’t expect to get more money for your standard 590 in ten years, like this gun might bring.
I also have a Sig 226 Navy, & it has similar comments written about it to the Mossberg online- (stupid logo, a novelty, no reason to buy, it has no meaning- etc.) I was never in the Navy to reply to the comment about not wanting the gun because you didn’t work for Blackwater? That’s the dumbest comment I’ve ever heard- people buy items every day that have a logo that has nothing to do with their chosen career or past. I bought the SIG 226 Navy because it came with 3 factory SIG magazines, night sights, & has a special coating on the internal parts that makes it corrosion resistant, all for about $50 more than a standard 226, why would you not want it? Just because it has an anchor Navy log on the side? Again, completely idiotic logic!
The 590 Black water is bada**, not because of the logo, because of its great reputation, & a great set of features all for about $100 more, you couldn’t add this stuff to a standard 590 for less, so why not buy it done? I didn’t go into my local dealer looking for this model, I was looking for a loaded 590 A1, & this is what they had, Sold!
Your conclusion of the gun is spot on. I did a quick comparison at 33 yards with the $550.Pinkwater 590a1 with a forend grip against the 1,700.00 Rock River Arms AR15 with EOS Red dot sight and a forend grip. In a quick firing test I wanted to see how they compared. I was happy as always with the AR results shooting at head only on a full size waist up target. 3 out of 20 rounds strayed from the head target with holes punched randomly across the face. ( Noticed the dot seemed to need a little more focus time to get decent placement on the target.) But marginal time difference between the two guns. Then I picked up the fully loaded 590a1 and was able to hone in on the shot quickly and fire off the first round. To my disbelief I found the face on the target. Pumped again to see if it was a fluke but again hit the face as did the remaining of the 2 3/4 slugs. (NASTY paper punching round) I cannot say enough about the sight configuration on this shot gun. Every one watching the results from the two guns were in disbelief and my shooting partner wanted to upgrade his 870s sights to the Pinkwater configuration. Overall Awesomeness. Oh, I don’t recall that anyone had asked me about the logo.
JDUNE1911 you are right…
Blackwater = security for military.
Blackwater shot gun = home security.
I like the guns layout for home defense. I am not carrying it in the car or concealing it on the hip. It is not a fashion statement nor a fraction of the bling factor of a camo wrapped shot gun, as if an animal can distinguish the silhouette of a gun. If the Blackwater logo is on it or a Pinkwater logo who gives a f***. That tells me I may make some money on it in 10 years. Any ways I wanted to read a review on the guns overall, fit, feel, firing and finish not the label any word on that?
I love the “camo” comment- how many jerk offs pay more for Max4 camo or APG, usually a lot more, so what, it matches there clothing while hunting? Really? I didn’t know ducks, gease, and pheasant werer that perceptive while your hiding in your blind. I suppose if you had a black shotgun, all the birds would send each-other signals and avoid your chosen blind completely! Can you say Stuuupid? I agree with comments I always hear about tactical guns, how stupid they are, or unnecessary- and some features are, but this gun has it all- and to answer your question about quality, the 590 has nothing but glowing reviews online- look at the comments about newer 870 expresses, they all have issues, due to cheap parts, and issues with the chambers being reamed improperly- the 590 is the evolution of the 500- and they are selling tons of them due their reliability, and common sense tactical features. Besides 9 rounds, the Blackwater version is also parkerized, plus the sights are great. This post is old, but if you haven’t bought one, I recommend it highly.
in my opinion, if you have never worked with blackwater, than it is somewhat silly to buy a shotgun with the blackwater logo. but thats just me.
to call me a moron.mall commando etc… for buying a blackwater branded gun is a little harsh.the price was the same as a regular non logo gun ,i wanted a short ,easy to use shotgun for home security,and frankly the logo is cool,so why not.when i sell it,it will bring my money back.
Makes me wonder if SIG will end up re-branding the P226 “Tactical Operations” back to it’s original name: “Blackwater Tactical”.
I served, stationed in Hampton Roads area, some moons ago. Seals & other special forces types are no different than anyone else, except for training. Meaning, some were good guys, and some were colossal a>>holes.
Blackwater was run by the latter.
Some – not all – of the guys they had over in Iraq were overpaid & undertrained. I don’t mean in how to handle a gun or intimidate – they all were PhDs in that. Yet in moral courage there were quite a few who came up way short. Some killed civvies in Iraq, just for sport, on a regular basis. Documented fact, backed up by accounts from people who were there. And the company, no matter what name they carry now, covered for them.
I got no time for any person or organization pulling that kind of crap, for profit, and then hiding behind the flag & patriotism & the ‘stress of combat’ to excuse and justify it. That should make every REAL American sick (cause we all are paying their salaries), but especially the ones who have served and done so honorably.
Taking the better road is tough. You carry a heavier load in the short term, and don’t see immediate, gratifying results. But in the end, it’s what you’ve got to do if the whole world isn’t going to turn into a cluster f>ck beyond all comprehension.
Blackwater/Xe/whatever never understood that. Mossberg apparently doesn’t mind that they don’t. And the Mall Ninjas will dream that they’ll be real men when society falls anyway, so they’ll buy whatever the former two are selling.
My two cents.
The 2nd picture is from the mossberg 590A1, not the 930 as stated
Max, thanks!
If you have a garden variety 12 gauge levelled at a bad guy, he might think to himself, “It may be that I am about to be shot.”
But if he sees that Blackwater logo, he might think to himself, “I’m DEFINITELY about to be shot!”
Actually, despite being officially renamed to Xe, up until I think a few months ago you could go to their training website, U.S. Training Center, then go to the “Proshop”, and still be able to buy all of their Blackwater branded merchandise, even DVD publications. I guess they couldn’t stand their Blackwater teddy bears being sold for hundreds of dollars between their former detractors who revel in the downfall of the brand name. Now, of course, everything has been rebranded with the Xe.
Maybe they had these shotguns left over on a contract from a while ago?
Gerald,
I will give you a little history about Blackwater.
The vast majority of Backwater are former military. Most are Special Operators. Out of that most of them are former/retire SEAL with combat experience.
Backwater started out as a very small outfit by a former Navy SEAL in the 90′s. The first time I meet them was at a price warehouse store (forgot which one, costco, BJ, or Samclub) when they were still a small outfit. They was wearing Blackwater T-shirt and was stocking up supplies to bring back to their training facilities.
Blackwater main bread and butter is training. They train people for PSD (Personal Security Detail) otherwise known by the general public as body or security guards.
When the second Gulf War started the USA needed people to help guard facilities and protect workers off base. They didn’t have the troop to do this kind of stuff so they hire Blackwater and other PSD companies. They are not mercenaries but highly trained security guards. Blackwater people had their fair share of fighting in Iraq not because they were looking for a fight but because the fight came to them.
They became very big very fast because of their very very close ties with the US military. And because of this there were on the number one hit list.
They are still very highly regarded/respected by military, police force, etc.. We don’t call Blackwater Xe. We call Blackwater Blackwater.
Backwater is located just south of East VA border in NC. It is about 30-45 minute drive (depending on how heavy the traffic is) to the largest Naval base in the world. The Hampton Road area has the largest military complex in the USA (IIRC) and maybe the world. I was very proud that at the height of the Cold War the Soviet listed our area in the top five to get nuke first. Good times.
Over half of the Navy SEALS live here. I was in college at ODU with a pretty lady, her husband was a SEAL member. We always joked why he did all the house works and take care of the kids. My cousin has an active Navy SEAL friend that come over to his home from time to time. Several of the gun club member was or currently roommate with an active or former SEAL member. There are other Special Operators living in the area but SEAL members are the largest here.
I have never worked for Blackwater. However one of my cousins work for them part time as a role player.
I read on another blog, might have been soldier systems that the guy that started blackwater maintained the rights to the blackwater bear paw logo and the name “blackwater”. So he can license it out to whoever he pleases and it has nothing to do with XE or US Training Center. I think it will sell just fine. Blackwater has a bad name to a very small segment of the gun loving/tactical public, as far as I can tell.
I think I still get a Blackwater brand newsletter every week. As I remember they didn’t completely get rid of the name.
If there are morons who want to buy a shotgun because it has the logo of a now defunct “uber badass” company on it, I think it will mean good business for Mossberg. Money and morons don’t tend to be together for long anyway.
As someone who likes to get drunk and let off a few shots at innocent people whenever they drive too close to me, this seems like a match made in heaven.
Mossberg probably kept the name because a) they paid for it and b) the company seems to be marketing directly to the Mall Ninja crowd with it’s latest products.
I’m afraid I can’t join in the chorus of ‘Blackwater roxor my soxor!’. There’s a reason the company changed it’s name.
lol, I’ll be the exception to the rule and be the guy who likes guns and can’t stand “private security contractors”. Also happen to be a light-infantryman from 2-22 INF and 3-15 INF with four combat deployments who’d like to state that the only place Blackwater ever went that either of my battalions didn’t would be the Green Zone. Dangerous place that, with all those Iraqi civilians around.
Meh.
Theres nothing there that hasnt already been done.
I am also a little mystified as to why Mossberg would want to be associated with a brand that, for many, stands for corruption. Not to mention the many charges that its contractors have killed civilians.
I’m pretty sure the Blackwater name and image are still a moneymaker for those guys.
http://proshop.blackwaterusa.com/Default.aspx
I saw that a while back and thought that it was a goof – Internet rumor or such.
Were any of you directly knowledgeable of what Blackwater did or how they ran their business? I strongly support our Constitution (including the 2nd Amendment). However, you can’t argue for the support of the legal right the 2nd Amendment gives us and also support criminal behavior, if any was conducted. In addition, sometimes what is legal (what you can do) isn’t what you should do. Just my 2¢…
* M590A1 SPX with : Speedfeed stock, XS XS Ghost ring sightst (front & backs) with Rail; CAA/FAB hanguard
* 930SPX with Choate pitol grip, XS Rail & Sight (front & back) with rail
Now Blackwater is just brand without relation with Xe PMC
Matt Groom: “The people who hated Blackwater are also the people who hate guns. They do not imagine themselves in the role of the hero in action/adventure movies, and don’t like movies that are excessively violent. They are the people who like political thrillers where the hero is some suave lawyer or journalist who never makes a fist, and would never use a gun unless they hit someone on the head with it and then threw it in a lake. These kind movies tend to revolve around government conspiracies and evil corporations that you have no choice but to run away from. In the end, they use the media or the law to defeat the evil doers by sheer force of their moral superiority. These people will not buy guns, so Mossberg is wisely declining from marketing to them.”
Actually, most of the action movies and shooter video games in recent times seem to feature the heroes taking on evil PMCs.
Heck, even Jack Bauer went up against one, and he’s as far from a suave, non-violent lawyer type as you can get.
Didn’t even H&K publicly distance themselves from Blackwater after a report on them ran on German TV?
And I agree with Gerald, this thing is largely geared towards the mall ninja crowd.
That said, although I disapprove of governments hiring extra-judicial mercenary armies, I have to cringe every time I see another “Blackriver” or “Ravenwood” being revealed to be behind some sort of global conspiracy on the screen. The 80s had commies and drug cartels, the 90s had drug cartels and street gangs, and the 00′s had islamic fundamentalists and PMCs. It’s 2011, time to come up with a new villain of the decade… and no, recycling the Russians (see: Vanquish, CoD: Modern Warfare 2) doesn’t count.
I like the 590 layout with the rail and rear peep. That rear sight is a lot more compact than the one on their other tactical models. However, I’m wary about the public opinion issue. I certainly wouldn’t want an over zealous prosecutor to show that to a jury. I don’t really have an opinion on the Blackwater hype because I never really examined the issue, and it seems like a bit of a moot point now.
Also, how is that 500 cruiser breaching model is different from their other 500 cruiser breaching model? http://www.mossberg.com/images/products/SA/54125.jpg
Lets face it, Blackwater is AWESOME! These guys are ex-special forces mercenaries. Their job is to go into places where the US armed forced won’t dare, and lay down the law. And what do they do it for? Loyalty to a country whose media hates them? Principle and selfless sacrifice? Hell no! They do it for the paycheck and nothing else! These guys are the anti-heroes, the renegades. Twisted steel and sex-appeal. They are the Mad Maxs, Han Solos and Riddicks of the world.
If you want a shotgun that says: “Hey everyone, I’m a mad mercenary in a world gone mad, who lives one paycheck to the next, looking out for no one but myself,” then this is the shot-gun for you!
But seriously, it is largely marketed to “tacticool” crowd, and most of these people are going to install rails all over their shotgun to mount lights, lasers and reflex sights anyway, so why not just market a shotgun with the rails already installed, then give it better sights, and brand it with a logo of a PMC group that most of these people already worship? Makes perfect sense, Blackwater is likely happy to part with the logo.
Some of you “Finger Pointers” never fail to make yourselves seem as ignorant as possibly can.
First,Let me start by stating that BLACKWATER, simply stated, is a private security firm, of which, just so happens, continues to be staffed with some of the most highly trained special forces operators in the world. However, there are also those within Blackwater, whom, do not fall into that following category. The skill sets of those who are employed within happen to range from United States Navy SEAL Officers all the way to sales associates who might work at Dick’s Sporting Goods, maybe these two are one in the same.
In other words, there is a wide array of levels of experience within the “Ranks of Blackwater”. Having worked, side by side and along for the ride, with some of the men withing Blackwater, I can vouch for some of the comments. Yet, for the most part, the upper elect are the ones who are chose for “Combat Detail” or “Personal Protection Detail”, especially these days with the most recent Microscopy that Erik Prince has had to endure, Not everyone is going to be HALO jumping into a combat zone.
Those days are long gone and hush-hush thanks to a bunch of sniveling from a Google of Liberal POGs.
Blackwater did what they were contracted to do and for the most part, they did it with respect to the contracts written. SOME People just do not have what it takes and SOME people DO!..
Having a Blackwater Logo on your shotgun is nothing more or less than strapping on your Browning Boots, or Buck Knife..
All are simply names of great products…Especially on this M-590a1
Obviously, they got the name and logo at a bargain basement price, and it still has an image that “Xe services” doesn’t. Remember that in fiction only villains are interesting. Heroes are designed to be “regular” and stereotypical so that the audience can relate to that character, and imagine themselves in that role. They’re good at things that normal people aren’t, like witty dialog and taking a punch, and bad at things that everybody’s bad at, like expressing themselves and understanding women.
PSC’s are guys we all imagine as being good at everything related to the drama of war, which is one of our favorite genres of entertainment.
The people who hated Blackwater are also the people who hate guns. They do not imagine themselves in the role of the hero in action/adventure movies, and don’t like movies that are excessively violent. They are the people who like political thrillers where the hero is some suave lawyer or journalist who never makes a fist, and would never use a gun unless they hit someone on the head with it and then threw it in a lake. These kind movies tend to revolve around government conspiracies and evil corporations that you have no choice but to run away from. In the end, they use the media or the law to defeat the evil doers by sheer force of their moral superiority. These people will not buy guns, so Mossberg is wisely declining from marketing to them.
The rest of us, we still like Blackwater/Xe, PSCs, and warriors generally.
Makes sense to me. Blackwater had a reputation for being unethical: war for profit and all that. But they also had a reputation for being good at it. All those brutal videos on the net aren’t of Blackwater getting asses kicked.
Some people would rather be the winner than the good guy.
Just to clarify my position: I am not one of Backwater’s detractors.