Sig Sauer PPNL (Police Pistol Netherlands)

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Two readers from the Netherlands emailed me information about the new Sig Sauer PPNL (Police Pistol Netherlands), a version of the SIG Sauer P250 DC designed for the Dutch police force. One reader said …

After a long and thorough public tender the Dutch ministry of Security and Justice announced today the choice of a new service pistol for the police of the Netherlands.

The German company of Sig Sauer will produce the new pistol, the Sig sauer PPNL (Police Pistol Netherlands), based on the existing model P250 DC.

The new pistol will replace the existing pistols: Walther P5 and Glock 17. Part of the replacement operation will be the extra training of the police officers for their qualification with the new handgun. This operation will take place from 2011 up to 2013 and will include around 45.000 police officers.

In the introduction of the new pistol the special police-units and key instructors for further training will have the priority.

During the research for this new pistol the whole process was monitored by the national Police Internal Investigations Department to watch for any irregularities, but none occurred

[ Many thanks to my Jas & "Dutch Source" for emailing me the info. ]

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Steve Johnson

Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.


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  • Mark

    Why would you replace the Glock 17 with this? I’m not saying this isn’t a good pistol but the Glock is pretty well proven and cheap.

    • CAR

      The Glocks with AT’s were introduced as they started working together with Dutch Marines (BBE) a couple of years ago. Dutch DoD is using 1st & 2nd generation Glock 17′s. A proven gun of course, no doubt about that (using it as a sportshooter and firearms trainer), but Dutch police had certrain issues/demands with the Glock (no external safety, no double sided use (standard), no size change e.g.). A Glock is not a standard issue in use with DoD (only KMar/Military Police, soldiers only use them in training or missions), and the new police pistol 250DCc is a standard issue weapon.

      The 250DCc is also in use with French police amongst others and tests were good. And this gun was the cheapest out of 4, has interchangable grips, possibilites for a chip with user information, can be used by lefties. I think it’s a good choice, now training should improve with Dutch police!

  • Gregor

    anyone know if thats the first time, that a Glock in Law Enforcement service is replaced? No doubt that the P5 needs to be replaced, but a Glock 17? Would love to know the reason behind this decision. and no, Im not a Glock fanboy, Im just curious :P

  • Iwan

    Biggest question is now: what is so special about it? What are the specifications of it?

  • Mountainbear

    I didn’t know they were still using P5s. I mean, that’s a gun from the 70s, essentially a replacement for the PPK. 9mm and 8 rounds. Not really a step up from a PPK IMO, difference really only being the caliber.

    I guess the 17s are first generation models, or maybe second, so yeah, replacing them isn’t that bad an idea either. Especially given how easy it is to get your hands on illegal guns in the Netherlands (AK47s, the real deal, go for roughly 200-300 Euros on the black market there, depending on the model) I think improving the armament of the LEOs is a very good idea.

    I still think that the 9mm should be dropped though. Personally I’d rather have something heavier. Maybe a .40. 9mm is a good round, but if push comes to shove I’d prefer something with a bit more punch and given how well equipped criminals are these days I wouldn’t want my life to depend on 9mm.

  • Charles

    “During the research for this new pistol the whole process was monitored by the national Police Internal Investigations Department to watch for any irregularities, but none occurred.”

    I’m curious, what kind of irregularities were they looking for?

    • CAR

      Previous bribe charges with a police teser/bouardmember and TBM Muller, the distributor for pepperspray (look at my earlier post)

  • Anton

    About time too. I once shot one of the mentioned Walthers and boy they’re old and battered for sure. There’s gonna be a lot of them flooding the market soon though. O.o

  • Peter BE

    @Mountainbear – Sure AK’s can be had in NL but at the rather hefty price of 1200 € and up. “Easy” is also relative. If you are not “in the know” you would have to take your chances to wave this kind of money in the faces of some rather unsavory characters who wouldn’t think twice about setting you up for a ripdeal :-S

  • jdun1911

    Charles,

    The P250 probably the worst Sig ever to produce. The FAM (Federal Air Marshal) adopted it only than found out how bad the design was. They replaced it with their old Sig. Yes they took their old Sig from storage to replace the 250. That’s how crappy the P250 was.

    The Hong Kong Police is the only other major department I know off that used the P250.

    Google:
    Federal Air Marshal P250 failing
    federal air marshal p250 failure

    • CAR

      This is the .357 version of the P250, in The Netherlands ist the compact 9mm using Action Effect ammo.

  • J.T.

    Hmm. Odd that the P250 failed horribly in the ATF trials but there were “no irregularities” when testing these guns.

  • Slim934

    Given that a large amount of yer force is already using glocks, why on earth would you move to a Sig?

    There is nothing wrong with Sigs, but then again there is even less wrong with glocks. Plus they are cheaper to field. I don’t get it.

  • CAR

    To all:

    The P5 is in service since the beginning of 80′s (almost 30yrs). By the end of the 90′s the P5 should be replaced, but for unknown reasons this was cancelled.

    Dutch SWAT teams (AT’s) switched from the P5 a couple of years ago to the Glock 17. Reason: Dutch SWAT is working together with Dutch DoD special teams, and Dutch DoD is using Glock 17′s.
    By the way: Dutch police could buy surplus Glock 17′s a few years later from DoD for € 1 each. They declined because the weapon has no DA/SA, two sided safety/external safety, two sided mag release etc.

    Now there are a couple of changes made to the P250 especially for the Dutch police. Of course, because they always want something special! money’s no problem it seems … again!

    Regarding the ammo the Dutch police went form a standard 9mm Para to the Action 3 ammo in the 90′s, having to change all P5′s to this rugged cartridge, as well as all MP-5′s. Enough money to spent. During the same periode new holsters, belts and uniforms were needed for the P5, the newly acquired pepperspray etc. During the years the Action 3 was changed for Action Effect and now the Action 4 ammo (called Action NP).

    Concerning the irregularities: Richard Bistrong (former Defense Technology) is accused of several bribes (government and NATO levels). End of the 90′s the Dutch police wanted pepperspray as an extra ‘weapon’. The tender was changed/directed in such a way by a Dutch policeman (testboard), that the tender went to TBM Muller in Arnhem. The Policeman was payed only $ 15.000,- bribe money. This is now under investigation, especially because SIG Sauer in The Netherlands is represented by TBM Muller! And the same Dutch policeman is in the testboard.

    All of this has come out through the Dutch newspaper Volkskrant. They are also investigation TBM Muller and DoD tenders. TBM Muller is put on-hold for government tenders and orders. The P250 is now bought straight from the factory.

    If you want any more info, please contact me.

  • Noah

    I’m wondering how the PPNL is different than the standard SIG p250?

    As for the reasons for switching, perhaps the ability to configure this firearm in many different sizes/grip frames has something to do with it? The same firearm could fill the needs of many different officers and adjust to their particular hand size or shooting grip. Also, the Sig p250 is quite inexpensive nowadays compared to other Sig’s, and even Glocks.

    I have never had any problems with my p250, however, it is true that this firearm is nowhere near as tried & tested as the Glock 17 platform.

  • TOmobl

    @Mountainbear…
    So you can buy an AK-47 for 200 – 300 euro’s on the black market in The Netherlands? I dont believe that, so please post your source or stop makeing up false facts.

    @Charles
    They were looking for bribes and such. There was this scandal years ago, where bribes where paid to the dutch police in exchange for pepperspray orders… or something like that. So they are a bit cautious since they dont want to see that happen again.

    Ontopic:
    Walthers were getting really old… But I dont get why they just keep the Glocks and make those the standard pistol. Especially since the police budgets are getting tighter.

  • Edward

    Charles, I assume it was to ensure that there was no attempted bribery and such.

  • Matt Groom

    Yea! Cheap Walther P5′s for me! Yea!

  • Alfred
  • Alfred

    “materiedeskundige” = expert on matter

  • Theodoric

    The Glock 17 was a stopgap measure, only a few were ever in use, probably second-hand (or borrowed!) from the Dutch military.

    Those investigations regarding irregularities was just to stop folks from complaining, which inevitably always happens whenever someone doesn’t get his way in the Dutch world of bureaucracy. Already some guy went to the press saying 6 out of 100 testers disagreed with the choice, which he considered significant. Just ego-politics, really.

  • Ben

    The Glocks where indeed a stopgap, only issued to Arrestatie Teams (Dutch version of SWAT) so most LEO’s still had the P5′s.
    They didnt want the Glock for all LEO’s because it does’nt have interchangeable grips (they had some issues with the P5 where big handed LEO’s neaded to wrap their grips with rubber bands and small handed LEO’s had trouble with handling the grip too).
    Also there where some people who didnt think the Glock Safe action trigger was safe enough (probably something to do with al the accidentals they had with the P5).

  • exKBBS

    Glock 17, they wish. Only the army and Royal Marechaussee are using the Glock Pistol. The police has the obsolete and old WaltherP5.
    Though not the best pistol, but shurely the best police pistol is the glock. Reliable, low maintenance, a huge magazine (18 rounds in total) and absolutely no catches/levers ore anthing that is messing up with the abillity to fire if you need or want.

  • subase

    Glock now with it’s 4th generation provides interchangeable backstraps and they have been known to furnish Glocks with a traditional side mounted safeties.

  • Henk

    The Glock 17 is/was only in use with the Dutch police by specialists like “arrest teams” (SWAT). So in comparison to the P5 only a hand full. The reason they were equiped with the Glock was mainly that the P5 could only hold 9 rounds. (one in chamber and eight in the magazine). The introduction of the Glock17 was a temporary measure until the new police pistol had been chosen and it was based on the operational needs by the teams.

  • Ben

    The absolutely no catches and levers part is exactly why they dont want it. They’re too scared people are going to shoot themselves.
    Also 18 rounds is possible but not advisable, I usually only load 16 to prevent malfunctions(shouldnt be a problem with new mags but ours have been used a lot).

  • Sian

    Not a fan of DAO, which is generally adopted as a substitute for actually training your cops to run their guns properly.

  • Sian

    The P250 has one of the best triggers for a DAO autoloader that I’ve ever felt, but in the end of the day it’s still a DAO, and I’d choose a P226 or a G17 or an M&P or a PX4 over it any day.

  • jdun1911

    It is rare to hear that Glock grip is too small. I hate to see what you guys think of 1911 grip.

    Never liked interchangeable backstraps. Better training is prefer.

  • sandor

    There is no info on why the sig was better then the other 3 contenders (H&K, Walther and Beretta). But one of the features of the Sig PPNL is a chip that will log every shot fired.

  • michael

    @Gregor
    I’m a student in Milwaukee and the police here are switching from the Glock 17 to the Smith & Wesson M&P40. I don’t know when they will make the switch but they already purchased the pistols.

  • David Fiorito

    Glocks (even the Gen 4s) do not have great ergonometrics. The P250 is one of the most adaptable platforms out there. Working the DAO trigger is like working a finely tuned revolver. I love it. The recoil is lighter than any 9mm I have ever used. With Corbon 147 Gr Performance match I can produce 1.5 to 2.5 inch groups offhand at 15 to 20 yards. And it is the only pistol I have ever held that I can operate the mag release without adjusting or loosening my grip. It worked so well that I sold my Glock 19, and may sell off my XD as well. The P250 is a joy to shoot. I just wish the mags were a bit cheaper.

  • Royi

    As stated, the Glock 17 is only issued to special forces..
    The Walther P5 (basically a shortened version of the P38) came as the successor of the FN model 125, Juliana Carbine (a tiny 7.92mm Mauser bolt action carbine) and the Klewang (an Indonesian blunt cutlass)..

    Over the years, several modifications were made to the P5 (few of those were improvements), usually patching it up for added safety.
    The most obvious one being a triggerpull of around 10 lbs.

    Certainly, the Glock was a popular candidate during the beginning of the tests. But the inability to modifications or adaptions (think heavier trigger pull, think more safety levers, think lower magazinecapacity (yes, LEO’s only get 10 rounds, 9 in the mag, 1 in the chamber, we don’t believe in zombies nor do we trust people who only see a shootingrange 3 times a year, with any more)) kinda ruined it.

    The mentioned investigated irregularities were of being:
    - TBM Arnhem is _not_ the dutch importer of Glock
    - TBM Arnhem _is_ the dutch importer of Sig-Sauer
    - TBM Arnhem did, at one time, hand out ‘presents’ to the bureaucrats in charge of writing requirement-specifications (effectively eliminating the (foreign) competition)
    - TBM Arnhem _is_ the largest supplier to governmental organisations of its kind, in the country.
    - EU law requires an EU wide invitation for candidates on a project of this scale.
    - The same person writing the list of requirements for potential candidates back then, during the ‘pepperspray-scandal’, was on the job for the new pistol project.

  • Jerry

    The GLOCK 17 will not be replaced by the sig-sauer.
    Wrong info. The Dutch police does not use the GLOCK 17 only the Walther P5.

    The Dutch Militairy on the other hand, uses the GLOCK 17 and will keep on using it.

  • CAR

    @Royi: correct, no comments ;-)

    @Jerry: Dutch AOE, or AT’s (SWAT Teams) do use the Glock 17 instead of the Walther P5, they changed to this gun a few years ago. This changed as the newly formed DSI is also head of the UIM (Marines), which use the Glock, and can be part of and AOE.

  • CAR

    And to keep the story going … Heckler Koch & Walther started legal procedures against the Dutch government in regards to the choice of the SIG P250 as the new Dutch Police Pistol. The bribe scandal and accusation of TBM Muller stands in the way as TBM is the SIG rep in The Netherlands; also, the test panel had a preference for the HK. They are also accused of bribes and stuff in regards to previous DMO (De. of Defense) orders and tenders …

    The story continues ……….

  • Tyler7

    I own 2 P250′s and I have thrown a few thousand rounds through them and LET ME TELL THE WORLD that the Sig Sauer P250 is a damn good gun!!! It shoots like a champion. The P250′s failure in past gun tests were from among the FIRST produced… Lets let Sig breath for half a F*****g second.

    I own a glock but it seems people are saying that they are flawless!?!?!? What? Lets look back at history my friends, remember this?

    GLOCK
    SEMIAUTOMATIC PISTOLS MANUFACTURED BETWEEN SEPTEMBER 2001 AND MAY 2002 WITH SERIAL NUMBERS STARTING WITH “E”, “GSSF” OR “USA” REGARDLESS OF CALIBER

    WARNING: Glock pistols manufactured between September 2001 and May 2002 with serial numbers starting with “E”, “GSSF” or “USA” regardless of caliber have experienced MULTIPLE FRAME RAIL FAILURES.

    I like the new Sig and sure any gun will experience a missfire or two. But I just had to put you annoying GLock or nothing fans out on your asses. MEH!!!!!!!!

  • Sian

    @Mountainbear In Europe .32 auto is considered a good police round and 9mm is more than adequate in comparison.

    I bet I know what’s happening, and it involves switching to a DAO pistol so they don’t have to spend so much time and money in training to avoid ADs.

    That said, the 250 has one of the best DAO actions I have ever felt. Even so, it’s still DAO.

  • http://hotmail.com allan ramai

    the p250 magazines are defective i owned one and all three magazines are not locking back the slide after the last shot. i am replacing with a glock model. the p250 has flaws and is not reliable. too many persons are having a lot of similar problems.

  • Freriks

    And the project is cancelled. The ppnl failed all four tests. It is considdered unsafe and doesn’t meet minimum quality standards. Details have not been disclosed yet by the Ministry of Justice but they seem pretty angry about it. http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/10884432/__Politiewapens_prullenbak_in__.html?p=6,1 (titled: Police weapons into the garbage bin)

  • Henk

    And the story continues.
    After the sig sauer could not meet the quality requirements, the Dutch goverment gave the order to H&K, wich came out 2nd in the test. Baretta & Walther went to court against this decision and they won the law suit. All of the proces have to be done over again. A total setback of at least a year. Police unions have made it clear they will sew the goverment if there are cases of officer unsafety/injury due to faulty P5´s. The P5´s should have been taken out of service al long time ago. Spare parts are scarce and expensive and they have problems coping with the new ammunition.