“Tan” M16/M4 Magazine Cartoon
This cartoon encourages soldier to upgrade to the Army's new "tan" M16/M4 magazine.
The "New, Improved Magazine" (left), "Old Timer" (Middle, Right)
[ Many thanks to Concerned_Soldier for emailing me the cartoon. ]
The comic is terrible, just like the training comics that the army used in the late 70′s/early 80′s when all their “volunteers” were high school dropouts and drug addicts. I hope the actual quality of soldiers today isn’t anywhere near that level. I have no other reason to think that it is.
The magazine is also awful. Not quite as good as the magazines that the rest of us have been using since 2004.
Ironically, the comics will be in the hands of the troops before the magazines are available.
The reputation of the US Army and the intelligence of it’s soldiers just gets stronger and stronger. I’m willing to place bets that as soon as troopers receive this visual aid, the magazine in the woman’s hand will ‘changes shape’ and end up on a latrine wall.
Can’t wait for the next exciting issue, maybe Man Faced Blond Woman can have a thrilling adventure starring a bolt carrier and a forward assist…or fight Wolverine, whatever.
Ah, Connie and Bonnie……
I guess we’ll start seeing a flood of green mags at gun shows now….
and the PMag is being issued too I hear….
good for our troops
You misspelled “New Improved Magazine”
Wow. Worst “comic” ever. Still waiting for the satire. Are military purchasers so dumb they need cartoon explanations of their job?
Really, that is about the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen. It looks like if you swap some of the pictures around you could have an Ad for child gun safety.
I really hope tax dollars were not spent on this.
I used to read these all the time as a kid. Dad would bring them home and I’d absorb them all. Which, really, was the way I always remembered to idle down before shutdown, always keep your M-16 clean, etc..
I wonder if there’s an archive of this anywhere.
Just get a PMAG.
I like how the say it “should” provide greater reliability. *sarcasm off*
I’m curious of the source of that cartoon. Any idea where it came from?
There’s an old M16 illustrated manual drawn by Will Eisner
http://www.ep.tc/problems/25/index.html
Great read.
I remember when Connie Rodd was hot…
They should also mention in the cartoon that the old spring will be incompatible with the new design.
IIRC I think they spent 3 years and 10 millions of tax payers’ money to develop the new follower. The Magpul rep on AR15.com was livid that so much money and time wasted on it while there was already an acceptable better alternative. Not only that the Magpul and other anti-tilt designs will be compatible with the current standard GI magazine.
Government employees are so unproductive. A lot of money and time could have save by giving a starving mechanical engineer college student $200 for him to design an anti-tilt follower within a week and a bonus of a $100 if he finishes the job early.
No there phaseing out the older black follower mags right? The tans are still around? Any mag improvement will make thing better anyway. Reminds me of the Vietnam comic for M-16A1s.
By the way it mentions M-16s as well as M-4s I think some emailers who said there hardly any M-16s in military use is wrong on this.
Matt, LOL
Meltron, thanks, thats a typo not a misspell
jdun1911, lol, I think thats now the govt operate with just about all their projects.
Comics are effective because we’re talking about 17-20 years olds kids. Doesn’t matter what era they came from or how smart they are. They’re still kids.
Reminds me of the comic-book FM for the M-1 Abrams from the early 1980s. $4,500,000 vehicles manned by guys with room-temperature (Celsius) ASVAB scores.
I was never a logistics guy, but I believe the NSN replaced was the only one for aluminum 30 rounders. So if you order magazines, use the new code. I have no idea if any branch is going to mass-replace green-follower mags. If there are about 3 million men and women in uniform, and say 1 million are issued an M16/M4 (very conservative), and the standard load-out is 7 magazines, that’s 7 million mags — not going to happen all at once.
Now are they issuing new bodies to go with the followers or are they just refurbishing the old mags?
Maigo,
It’s all new magazines. No refurbishing.
Boy there are a lot of armchair commandos in the comments here. THis comic is from PS monthly, which has been in print for….decades upon decdades. WHo’s its target audience? Really not sure. It’s mostly, IMHO, still in print for nostalgia and tradition. 19 year old joe snuffie doesn’t read it unless he’s waiting for a denatl appointment or something and there’s nothing else to read. It’s real audience by subject matter, is unit armorers and supply sergeants. Not 19 year olds and not people who do much learning from comic books. NSN numbers do nothing for that 19 year old, but does mean something to that company supply sgt, that company armorer, that company xo. The comic, as it has always been, is justa way for that info to get out there. Most of its travel will be word of mouth, perhaps instigated by that tidbit of info gleaned from this throw away line in a comic. So enough on the “stupid” military “purchasers” commenters have no clue about.
And low ASVAB scores among tankers? Yeah, spoken like a true pogue. It’s not 1970. It’s 2010, the shirkers are staying well clear of the combat arms. Ask any 1SG of any MOS–which soldiers do they have the most problems with? Who are those 5% of soldiers that take 95% of theri time? It’s disproportionately cooks, truck drivers, mechanics, fuelers, etc. Ask that 1SG would he rather be Top in a pogue company or a company full of infantrymen, tankers or cav scouts. There are definately smart soldiers that are MI weenies, computer techs, etc. But let’s not discount the fact most trigger pulers are suburban white kids who have a action junkie itch–far from the knuckle dragging stereotype.
Aw, who am I kidding. Tankers are simple–Tankers like explosions.
From the military perspective mags are semi-disposable. And that would be your perspective too if you were stuck with USGI aluminum mags and you carried them 150 hours a week while hopping in and out of vehicles and occasionally getting shot at.
I’m not aware of any units issuing Pmags but I believe a lot of soldiers buy them privately and use them without a hassle.
The COTS options (Pmag, Lancer, TangoDown) are so much better it’s just sad to see this triumph of army procurement “not invented here” arrogance.
Do we have REMFs at the Pentagon stuck in 1968? Today’s enlisted troops probably have higher IQ test scores than officers of the Nam era. I’m calling my Congresscritter over this waste of money.
i agree 100% with space cadet. As a former 11V, ASVAB scores never mean jack s–t when the soldier was motivated, hard-working, and loyal. Usually those that ridicule combat arms MOSs have a envy that they never had the guts to take that extra step.
Yes, tankers like to blow stuff up. Scouts like to sneak and shoot. Infantrymen will walk a mule to its early grave. There is more than just running and jumping. Ever give a detailed OP order? apply TLPs (troop leading procedures) in a METT-TC environment? it actually requires a good brain.
“I sound defensive. I’m just tired of those “who haven’t been” talking like they have. I’d say leave it for the internet, but here we are…”
don’t forget what is the bathroom wall of the world…the internet
here, nobdy’s opinions are going to be the same because people’s experiences range from soldier-wannabes to former professional soldiers.
PS has been around a minute. Its basic info put out simply and with no BS. I read it at work. It has useful info.
@spacecadet- I agree with you on the armchair commandos comment. I disagree with the comment about who is the most problem. Bad apples are in every unit.Period.You can hate on “support folks” as much as you like but without them you have no food or ammo brought to you. Also the guy fixing the tank is Ordnance Corp not Armor.But you knew that.I have the utmost respect for combat arms guys.My dad told me to learn from the guys with the combat patches.I did.I was a Machinist when I was in.I worked my a** off when many “non support” folks were enjoying their 4 day weekend.I understand both sides.I would also like to point out that everyone in the Army,not just combat arms,are getting shot at.Mr. Insurgent does not have any scruples about who he kills.Frankly,all things considered,and from a tactical perspective, a “specialized support person” is actually harder to replace than say an Infantry soldier.So targeting one of them has far more reaching effect on a “specialized mission”. No I am not hating on the grunts.See my previous comments.Opinions are like,well,you know…
@ the other tools running their internet yaps about the IQ of the soldiers-Stop guessing,the more you type, the dumber you look.Join the service to find out what the real deal is.On a similar note,my ASVAB score allowed me to have ANY job in the Army….lol.
There are alot of smart tankers even in the 1960s they had to be smart enough to operate the computers and optical devise then and now there 10 time more complex on any current MBT.
I dont think green mags are going anywhere for a while there still alot of black follower mags left as well they go first. I say let the rifleman pic his mags if he likes GI fin or if its a PMAG fine let him decide.
The idea of a white suburban middle class army is simple not true. The officers may be mainly white but the enlisted sure as hell aren’t. Less than fifty percent of the enlisted are white and an even lower percentage of NCO’s are white. Not that there is anything wrong with that. A lot of the people who join are intelligent but they simple don’t have any other opportunities and never really excelled. There is a lot more gang banger and ghetto culture buried underneath a thin veneer of civility then you would imagine. A lot of people join because they like to see things die.
Of course the air force is different they really are geeks.
Steve,
I didn’t know this was going to cause such a stir. I just wanted to get some good info out to other shooters.
For all those interested, you can see more of the publication here: https://www.logsa.army.mil/psmag/pshome.cfm
A lot of good information on weapons and maintenance.
Although the we jest about the comic book, the purpose of the publication is to get information out about Military Technical Data, there are millions of pages in books about maintenance of military equipment, this publication condenses that information into a one-source document that allows information to be passed to the force quickly. It also provides Tactics, Techniques and procedures that have come about through experience in operations from around the world.
Interesting that people degrade those who serve their country, we would rather a thank you, or you could always move.. We provide you those freedoms at our cost, you do not have to degrade us for it. But that is your right, we just pay for it..
Zach and Spacecadet thanks for your support. Spacecadet, where have you served?
Thanks,
V/R
C_S
spacecadet, Thank you from a room temp (93.333333..)Celsius, 1984 recruit. I was too love explosions, caused a lot of them myself.
Pmag aren’t military issue. No DoD contract. However many units and individual use them. They are either bought by unit or private funds.
Concerned_Soldier, I have no idea why it is so controversial! Still, I am pleased you sent it to me!
so they decided to reinvent the wheel when the magpul follower has been out for years?
I don’t want to go off track but this need to be corrected. I debated this few years back on minorities in the military.
Minorities represented about the same in military as in the general population for enlisted.
Blacks in the officer corps are overrepresented compare to the general population.
American soldiers are more educated than their peers.
Members of the all-volunteer military are significantly more likely to come from high-income neighborhoods than from low-income neighborhoods.
You can read the rest of the report here.
http://www.heritage.org/research/nationalsecurity/cda08-05.cfm
BTW, the folks that put the PS magazine together at LOGSA are a nice group of people. Worked down the hall from them last summer…
Wow this is going off topic. No matter what race or asvab score the recruit got. He is the dbast equiped and trained solder on the battel field and is far better than any British German or Russian and Chinese (theres a joke) solder ot there. PMAGs or GI no matter the deadliest weapon on the battel field is a marine and his rifle.
The original Sgt. Connie Rodd was created by Will Eisner; sigh. The new improved Connie, isn’t…
Online archive of PS:
http://dig.library.vcu.edu/cdm4/browse.php?CISOROOT=%2Fpsm
Amusingly, the comic makes NSN 1005-01-561-7200 look like a stuck-up jerkass…
So, uh, anyone care to explain why the last round is on the other side now?
Are the feed lips thicker, rolled better, better shape?
Anyone put hands on this thing yet? How does it compare to a PMAG or an HK high-durability?
I may be an idiot civilian, but giving three 20-round extended M9 mags to my truck driving friend felt better than giving a million to the united way.
“So, uh, anyone care to explain why the last round is on the other side now?
Are the feed lips thicker, rolled better, better shape?”
This blog had an earlier post regarding the mag. No one is aware that the magazine body has been improved, or why they switched the round to the opposite side.
It really appears to be nothing more than a better spring and a slightly improved follower, which is probably not as good as the Magpul followers that us civvies have had for a decade or so. Although the USGI mag is o-k, it is basically 1960′s technology and originally meant to be basically disposable. There are several newer mags that are far better – Pmag, Tangodown ARC, Lancer L5, maybe others. The HK “high reliability” mag is probably not on that list, for what it’s worth. Too heavy, too expensive, and doesn’t seem to live up to its name.
The whole thing is a travesty and an example of how poorly army procurement can work.
Dont know Zach ive seen guys with pamags have more malfunctions while im useing old black follower gi maks havet had a malfuntion. its all up to the man who uses what mag he likes.
VIC Thomson: Sorry bud, in the combat arms the vast majority of soldiers ARE young white 19-24 year olds, mostly middle-to-lower middle class. THink about it. If you were trying to use the military to get out of poverty, why, in 2010, would you CHOOSE to be a trigger puller? When you can actually learn a trade, like computer tech or topographical analyst or air traffic controller? Don’t have the scores? Well, where do you think fuelers and truck drivers come from? Either of those povide much better opportunity in the “real world”. IEDs may not discriminate but no average person chooses to make “close with the enemy” as their job description. Action junkies a lot of us. Cynical ones at that. But certainly not desperate–there are much easier, more fruitful jobs in the military.
Less than 50% of enlisted are white? What are you smoking? Even Army-wide that’s a ridiculous claim.
This is from the horse’s mouth: most 11Bs and 19Ks and 19Ds are skinny white kids that were average in every way in high school THey weren’t the valedictorians and they weren’t the captains of the football team. THey were in key club or wrestled or ran cross country or played a lot of videogames. I’m not speaking as someone who merely watches CNN and “knows everything” about the military. Joe, in a combined arms battalion, armored reconnaissance squadron, stryker bn, infantry bn, are predominantly average white boys you went to HS with. You are indeed right, though, when you mention diversity in the “useful” MOSes. THe Army in total is diverse. Cav scouts, not so much.
BTW, I’m not trying to make a disparaging remark on any “support” guys. OUr mechanics, for example, were expected to do the same things as our tankers–tank plts are short manned, expected to do things that infantry PLTs do with an organization the size of infantry sections. We have 16 19Ks vs 32 11Bs. A tank company has the same amount of work thata mech infantry co does, but they sleep less because we need to man patrols that an IN company can split with sections. And we’re all dismounted the same amount of time–we didn’t even bring tanks our last deployment. I relied on CRT (tank mechanics) to man guns and walk the same patrols. They were outside the wire the same amount of time as my tankers.
Vic, you need to look at your facts. 77% of US soldiers are white according to this statistic…
http://www.heritage.org/research/nationalsecurity/upload/85112_1.gif
provided by the Department of Defense.
lance, ill believe it when i see it. give the technical comparisons between the PMAG and black follower GI mags
All magazines are disposable, including Pmag, Lancer, etc. From what was commented a few months ago the new GI magazine has an anti-tilt follower with a new spring to hook it.
I don’t have problem with GI magazine (green follower). I did have a lot of trouble with the black follower version. GI magazine are cost effect. The last gunshow I went to I bought 4 new Okay GI magazine (green follower) for five buck each. I did replaced the green follower with Magpul anti-tilt version, tho. I should have bought more but then again my AR15 magazine collection is in the three digits.
I believe the Pmag is five years old. IIRC the anti-tilt follower was first introduced by South Korea, but don’t quote me on it.
While I don’t own any HK magazine from what I gather on AR15, they aren’t as good as GI magazine.
Jdun, HK magazines are excellent and superior to the GI mags. This tan, anti-tilt follower is supposed to be more cost effective than the HK mags (which cost anywhere from 45-60 bucks!).
I had some issues with GI mags in my career, though with proper loading and care, the issues were minimal. In actual combat conditions, GI mags will break down and fail. Not surprisingly during my unit’s stint in the sandbox, we bought the magpul followers, which made the magazines just as good as the most expensive ones.
Destroyer,
Again I don’t own any. I can’t justified the cost especially when so many people posted bad reviews on it. YMMV.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=17&t=471957
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=EWv&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=HK+magazine+pat+rogers&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=
Im with Jdun I never had hardly any problems with GI mags in both dusty and muddy conditions.
I never had any problems with anything in those conditions either if i don’t use it or it just sits in one of my pouches
Plastic mags have there faults. Isreal used plastic mags for year but droped them recently for metalic ones. Pmags are nice for a day at the range but it can be debated.
*sighs* comparing apples to oranges. Everybody would agree that there is a difference between Orlite and PMAGs. Difference between Thermold and Lancer. Saying that they are all “plastic” mags is like saying Pakistani and Russian AK47′s are “all made of metal”.