Trijicon bible verse controversy


Trijicon are under fire after it was discovered that Trijicon scopes supplied to the US Army contain a references to bible verses inscribed on them.

ABC News reports

One of the citations on the gun sights, 2COR4:6, is an apparent reference to Second Corinthians 4:6 of the New Testament, which reads: “For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.”

The tradition of inscribing bible verse references on the sights was started by the founder, a devout Christian, and continued after his death in 2003.

[ Many thanks to all the readers who emailed in this story ]

UPDATE: Brits also complaining.



Steve Johnson

Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.


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  • So a controversy about verse numbers which Trijicon have always inscribed on their sights and which we’re now supposed to be outraged about because some journalist found out about it and got his panties in a twist?

    Look at how ABC sells this is the result of an investigation- i.e. someone told them about it and they phoned Trijicon for a comment.

    Please, save us from “investigative journalism” like this.

    If the Trijicon is the best sight of its kind available to the military, and if they are inscribed with these verses at the wishes of their late founder, then there’s no issue in my mind- the folks in the military need to use the best equipment for the job, regardless of whether or not it infringes some politically correct rule or not.

  • Greetings from Texas,
    Some folks stay awake at night wondering what they can be upset about next.

  • Clodboy

    As an atheist, I find this to be a pretty ridiculous non-issue – actually, it’s kind of a nice “personal” touch by the manufacturer (but yes, I’d also expect Christians to be fully tolerant if a non-believing manufacturer started his serial numbers with “G0D_D34D”)

    On the other hand, I do find it kind of cynical to emblazon a piece of military hardware with quotes from perhaps the biggest peacenik in history – or maybe my bible translation is faulty and Luke 6:29 and Matt 5:39 were actually just talking about the importance of having an ambidextrous cheek piece on your stock 😉

  • iMick

    *Facepalm*

  • Todd

    I was holding off on an ACOG until I saw this news. Now I simply must add one to my rifle. Any pork eating crusader worth his salt probably feels the same way I do. God Bless America! God Bless our troops! God Bless Trijicon!

  • James Potts

    LOVE IT!….so fitting for our troops!

  • CinSC

    ABC refers to the citations as “secret”, yet they are plainly discoverable: later in the same report ABC writes “2COR4:6, is an apparent reference to Second Corinthians 4:6 of the New Testament”.
    Something that is “apparent” cannot be “secret”, can it?

    It will be interesting to see how this controversy unfolds.

  • So the article says that it is un-Constitutional. While the Military may have a policy against this and they may well be in their right to cancel this contract according to their policies… I find that saying it is un-Consitutional is not a “truism.” For example:

    ============================
    …in 1853, a group petitioned Congress to separate Christian principles from government. They desired a so-called “separation of church and state,” with chaplains being turned out of Congress, the military, etc.. Their petition was referred to the House and the Senate Judiciary Committees, which investigated for almost a year to see if it would be possible to separate Christian principles from government.

    Both the House and the Senate Judiciary Committees returned with their reports. The following are excerpts from the House report delivered on March 27, 1854:

    “Had the people [the Founding Fathers], during the Revolution, had a suspicion of any attempt to war against Christianity, that Revolution would have been strangled in its cradle. At the time of the adoption of the Constitution and the amendments, the universal sentiment was that Christianity should be encouraged, but not any one sect [denomination]…. In this age, there is no substitute for Christianity…. That was the religion of the founders of the republic, and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants.”

    Two months later, the Judiciary Committee made this strong declaration:

    “The great, vital, and conservative element in our system [the thing that holds our system together] is the belief of our people in the pure doctrines and divine truths of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.”

    The Committees explained that they would not separate these principles, for it was these principles and activities that had made us so successful – they had been our foundation, our basis.

    (From: http://religiopoliticaltalk.blogspot.com/2007/03/separation-of-church-and-state_2805.html)
    ============================

    I find it a bit apocalyptic myself, but considering the tradition of the company, I do not think it un-Constitutional.

    PapaG

  • AP

    I was going to forward this story but then I remembered: Firearms, not politics. However, since you’re on it: While I may share the same faith, I find it wholly irresponsible that Trijicon would tag their military-bound optics with references to scripture. I’m insulted as a Christian, a tax-payer, and a firearms enthusiast. It smacks of arrogance, frankly, but more critically it gives the left a ball to run with which may result in our guys being denied the best equipment they need to stay alive. If In-N-Out wants to stick it on a paper cup, that’s their business but keep it out of procurement, please. I suppose the “Tri” in is for the Holy Trinity? Aimpoint and EO Tech just got a new fan.

  • SpudGun

    I’m not a religious man, but every time I miss a shot, I always say ‘Jesus!’, so I think it’s apt that they’ve put some Bible quotations on the scope.

    It’s not even a full quote, it’s just some letters and a few numbers which you could interpret in anyway you desire – if you want to give it a religious connotation then that is entirely up to you.

    Am I surprised there is an uproar? Not really, we live in a world where buildings aren’t allowed to have a 13th floor because it makes idiots afraid.

    Psst, don’t tell the ABC reporters that ‘In God We Trust’ is written on the money they get for coming up with non-stories.

  • led

    The inscriptions refer specifically to bible verses and are a clear violation of the military’s rules against proselytizing, plain and simple. These rule exist for a reason, there are soldiers of all faiths serving and we also equip foreign soldiers from Muslim countries. The addition of the verse references creates problems for absolutely no reason and seems to make weird mockery out of a religion which is meant to be peaceful.

    To those who are saying “no big deal” or want the references left on the scopes just because you don’t like “the left” getting outraged over such a small infraction of the rules, try to think about this with some intellectual honesty. First, this is a clear violation of military protocol, what other minor rules do you think soldiers should simply ignore because they are no big deal? How can the brass insist there is to be no proselytizing among the ranks and then ship out equipment with Christian references without confusing troops about what is really expected of them and hurting morale? Second, would you want Americans to use scopes with islamic references on them? I think you would feel a little differently about that.

  • lmoiseve

    I was saving up for a EOTech. Keyword= was. Now an Trijicon seems a little bit better in my eyes.

    I can appreciate a man that is not ashamed to pronounce to the world what he believes. Trijicon was not even hiding it in an unseen spot. They were right there in the open about it. Some people just need to find things to gripe about. By the way, “Secret ‘Jesus’ Bible Codes”? Come on, They should change the name of their website to “Idiot Propaganda Writings”.

  • 4Cammer

    This is too cool. DW used to add a cross to its 1911’s before CZ bought the company if I remember correctly. I am not a Christian, but I do find this comforting that some still have passion in their rligious beliefs.

  • Vak

    @SpudGun :

    The “in god we trust” part that reads on the money is actually rather recent, as it dates only from 1956. So they might argue it’s not what the founding father would have intended. Anyway, I find “E pluribus Unum” to be a much better motto.

    (just my two cents)

  • CMathews

    I also an atheist, however this is not offensive nor should it be to anyone else in my eyes. It’s just some letters and numbers, if you don’t like, don’t look at it. That’s just how I feel. I don’t even like claiming that I am an atheist just because people assume you’re an ass hole that doesn’t believe in god and yells at religious people. I actually enjoy relious texts, purely from a scholarly standpoint. I’d still buy a trijicon, if I could afford it of course.

  • Affe

    Leaves a bad taste. Potential self-inflicted propaganda wound for the US in the mideast. Other than that, BFD, but I’ll make mine an Aimpoint in the future.

  • John

    I thought killing people in God’s name is their bag not ours.

  • I’m not particularly religious, and have known about the inscriptions for a couple of years. It doesn’t bother me in the slightest.

    The references are unobtrusive enough that to claim it’s somehow pushing a religious view is, frankly, laughable.

  • Lance

    This is more about anti-christian messages the BIG media like ABC is pushing. All ACOGs have a verse inscibed on the scope. Mine has one too. Dose this upset our GIs?? NO most people in service are christian anyway. The ony ones who hate this are militent athist who own ABC news.

  • RockStarArtist

    It should not be hard to strike that out of their manufacturing process. Keep religion personal, out of politics, and stop sneaking religion into the lives of the unsuspecting and the unwanting.

    Fortunately, I have not acquired one of their products and will await until this blemish is removed before considering purchase.

  • Ken

    BFD?

  • Charles

    The only controversy here is the news just found out about it. That is it. I guarantee that before the military purchased theses scopes, they were carefully inspected. The inspector(s) signed off on the order after seeing the product. Further than that, the soldiers knew (some of them), but no one cared until ABC found out.

  • Roblenator

    Makes me want one even more!

  • 54Bravo

    Trijicon is completely inappropriate to do this on government contractual items. If they want to put bible quote numbers or whatever on private item sales, more power to them. On government purchased items, paid for by U.S. tax payers, it’s non-inclusive, offensive and foolish.

    Why? For one thing, believe it or not, but not all service members are Christian nor are all of the aforementioned tax payers. The military needs to be as diverse as the country they are serving and no one religion should be promoted over others, in even seemingly trivial ways.

    Second, Christian markings on U.S. weapons supplies powerful propaganda to the enemy to rile up their fanatical followers even more. They already love to call us “crusaders” and now we basically handed them the proof (in their eyes).

    If you still aren’t convinced this isn’t a good idea, what if the quotes were from the Koran? Still no big deal? How about some Scientology concepts, maybe a “Dianetics” model scope? Is that OK and not a problem? What if a government contractor appended every model number with “666”, still no big deal? “do what thou wilt” or whatever?

    Unacceptable, foolish and NOT right. We should respect ALL members of our military and their own belief systems enough to not be shoving one religion or another in their face, while they risk their lives for America on a daily basis.

    Trijicon needs to cease and desist this activity on U.S. Gov’t items immediately and modify existing sights ASAP.

    • 54Bravo, on the other hand it is the US govt that buy the product … they did not add it after they were paid for.

  • Russ

    I say let them make sights for every gun in the United States. I’ll take a dozen. Speak out for God.

  • wild bill

    well the “secret” codes are on U.S. guns and this country was founded on religious freedom and the words in god we trust is in our constitution and on our money (I would say lol in our schools and the pledge of allegiance but some one has already taken care of that haven’t they…..)And our founding fathers wear Christians who fought and died so we could do just what Trijicon is doing. and aren’t we training them to fight with U.S. guns……..if they don’t like our god or our beliefs I guess they can use someone else’s guns to defend them self’s and if the people that we (foreign or domestic) shot or they shoot don’t like being shot by guns that have codes that refer to biblical scripture then they should probably quit doing things that might get them self’s shot. and I would also assume that they and every one else who is trying to change the way things have been done in this country since September 17, 1787 then they should get the hell out (and that goes for every one even American born citizens. you know the one that are on capitol hill that think they are speaking for the people. well give me hell yeah if you agree and go to hell if you don’t just so I know how my words affect others thanks. WILD BILL

  • wild bill

    Edited and corrected

    well the “secret” codes are on U.S. guns and this country was founded on religious freedom and the words “in god we trust” is in our constitution and on our money (I would say lol in our schools and the pledge of allegiance but some one has already taken care of that haven’t they…..)And our founding fathers wear Christians who fought and died so we could do just what Trijicon is doing(practicing religious freedom). and aren’t we training them to fight with U.S. guns……..if they don’t like our god or our beliefs I guess they can use someone else’s guns to defend them self’s. And if the people that we (foreign or domestic) shoot or they shoot don’t like being shot by guns that have codes that refer to biblical scripture then they should probably quit doing things that might get them self’s shot. I would suggest that anybody who doesn’t like this country and every one else who is trying to change the way things have been done in this country since September 17, 1787 should get the hell out of it, and that goes for every one (even American born citizens). you know the one that are on capitol hill that think they are speaking for the people. well give me hell yeah if you agree and go to hell if you don’t just so I know how my words affect others thanks. WILD BILL

  • Squidpuppy

    I guess it’s kinda culturally insensitive, seeing as how The Sandbox is mostly Muslim, and all. Knowing how historically aware a lot of them folks are, don’t it hark back to Crusaders with cross inscribed broad swords?

    Still, not sure how much blacker an eye that gives us; I expect we already done quite enough on that score that this prolly makes no nevermind anyway. Don’t really see how it gives us any leg up either though. Seems to me it’s just another one of them peculiar things.

    Personally, I shrug my shoulders. As an orthodox agnostic, if the Lord wants to guide my optical sights to smite mine enemies sure and true, am I gonna stop Him? Uh, no.

    BTW, In & Out burger wrappers and shake cups have Bible verses on them too; is that gonna stop me from having a Double-Double or a frosty chocolate malt? Uh-uh.

  • CMathews

    Story even made The Colbert Report tonight. It was actually quite hilarious. If I can find a link I will post it later.

  • jdun1911

    As Steve pointed it out, Trijicon did not add the verse on military and government sales as far as I know. Other military people on AR15 and M4carbine.net have confirmed this.

    It’s a non-issue but the liberal media has a way of getting stupid people blood pressure up.

  • jdun1911

    While we’re on verse, here is a famous one.

    Matthew 10:36

    http://rpginn.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1113&Itemid=1

  • “Ahhh, I love a jolly rump in the sand.” Especially led’s comments. LEd, just know that I am not nor will I ever try to “flame” you, I will leave that to Kevin Jennings and the rest of the Act Up bunch (and yes, I know it’s “romp”).

    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/01/19/trijicon-bible-verse-controversy/#comment-24013

    I will have to say that I do not think Christ would ultimately enjoy the verses put on military weapons, but that is a theological question, which is: WWJD. I know that religion isn’t meant for peace, per-se, one only need reference Muhammad: a militaristic pedophile who personally ordered the death of 900 men, women, and children… even taking part himself in the slitting of throats. Jesus, however, when Peter cut off the ear of the Roman soldier healed it, not to mention the many illustrations of children smiling and felling safe around Christ, and the only child you would see depicted (if you could see a depiction of it at all) is with a 9-year-old in bed. Which brings me to this idea… were there bible verses on scopes in these times:

    ===================
    1968
    June 5 – U.S. presidential candidate Robert Kennedy murdered by Palestinian Sirhan Sirhan, in Los Angeles, which causes further terrorist attacks, as Arab terrorist groups demanded his release.
    1969
    Feb. 18 – Boeing 707 attacked at Zurich, Switzerland, killing the pilot and 3 passengers.
    Aug. 29 – TWA 707 hijacked from Rome to Damascus, released with only wounded.
    Nov. 27- EL AL office in Athens, Greece attacked. Innocent bystanders killed.
    1970
    Feb. 21 – Swiss airliner blown up over Switzerland, killing all 47 people on board.
    Feb. 23 – PLO terrorists open fire on a busload of Christian pilgrims killing 1 and wounding 2 Americans.
    April 21- Bomb explodes aboard a Philippines airliner. All 36 aboard are killed.
    Sept. 6 – “Skyjack Sunday” in Jordan. 3 planes (TWA, Swissair, Pan Am) en route to the U.S. hijacked, 400+ hostages, planes blown up in Jordan, Governments agreed to PFLP’s demands, released terrorists from jails and hostages released.
    Sept. 14 – The PFLP hijacked TWA flight to Ammon, 4 Americans injured.
    1971
    Nov. 28 – Jordanian prime minister Tal killed by terrorists at the Sheraton Hotel in Cairo, Egypt.
    Dec. – Jordanian ambassador to London, England is shot by hit squad.
    1972
    Jan. 26 – Bomb explodes on a Yugoslav plane killing all but one passenger.
    May 30 – Ben Gurion Airport, Israel attack killed 26, and wounded 78 U.S. citizens from Puerto Rico.
    Sept. 5 – Palestinian terrorists seize 11 athletes in the Olympic Village in Munich, Germany, 9 hostages and 5 terrorists killed, plus David Berger from Cleveland.
    1973
    March 2 – Khartoum, Sudan. Cleo Noel, Jr., U.S. ambassador, and George C. Moore, U.S. diplomat, were held hostage and then killed by terrorists at the U.S. Embassy.
    Aug. 5 – Suicide squad attacks Athens airport, Greece, killing 3 civilians and injuring 55.
    Dec. 17 – Bomb explodes at Pan Am office at Rome, Italy killing 32 and injuring 50+. The terrorists take 7 Italian policemen hostage and hijack an aircraft to Athens, Greece, killing one of them.
    1974
    March 1 – Diplomats taken hostage from Saudi Arabian Embassy in Khartoum, Sudan, 2 that are killed are Americans.
    April 11 – Kiryat Shmona Massacre at an apartment building killing 18 people, 9 were children.
    Sept. 8 – Athens, Greece. TWA Flight 841 exploded from bomb in cargo hold, all 88 passengers killed, including 32-year-old Steven Lowe, an American citizen.
    Nov. 23 – British DC-10 hijacked at Dubai, UAE, flown to Tunisia where a German passenger was killed.
    1975
    Jan. 19 – Arab terrorists attack Orly airport, Paris, France, seizing 10 hostages from a bathroom. French provided the terrorists with a plane to fly them to safety in Baghdad, Iraq.
    Sept. 30 – Hungarian airplane explodes killing all 64 persons on board.
    Dec. 21 – Carlos “The Jackal” holds 11 oil ministers and 59 civilians hostage during the OPEC meeting in Vienna, Austria. Flew to Algeria, got $300,000,000 in ransom money, Carlos and his Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine terrorists escape.
    1976
    Jan. 1 – 82 innocent travelers are killed aboard a Lebanese plane.
    June 27 – Air France airliner hijacked, forced to fly to Uganda. Some 258 passengers and crew are held hostage. 3 passengers killed. July 4th, Israeli commandos rescue the remaining hostages.
    Aug. 11 – Terrorists attack Istanbul airport, Turkey, killing 4 civilians (1 from U.S.) and injuring 20.
    Dec. 4 – Terrorists occupied the Indonesian Embassy in The Hague, Netherlands, 1 official killed.
    Dec. 14 – Passenger train hijacked and passengers were kept hostage, 3 were killed.
    1977
    Jan. 1 – F.E. Melov U.S. ambassador to Lebanon, and Robert O.Waring, the U.S. economic counselor, kidnapped and later killed in Beirut.
    Oct. 13 – Palestinian terrorists hijack a Lufthansa Flight 181 Boeing 737 and order it to fly around a number of Middle East destinations for four days, pilot is killed by the terrorists, 90 hostages rescued.
    1978
    March 11 – Gail Rubin, niece of U.S. Senator Ribicoff, among 38 people shot to death by terrorists on a beach near Tel Aviv.
    June 2 – A bomb kills 2 people at the CHOGM meeting in Sydney Australia.
    1979
    July 29 – Terrorist bombs two railway stations in Madrid, kills 7.
    Nov. 4 – Terrorists seized the U.S. Embassy in Tehran and took 66 American diplomats hostage. 13 freed, but the remaining 53 were held until their release on January 20, 1981 – 444 days – at the inauguration of President Ronald Reagan.
    1980
    April 30 – Terrorists took over the Iranian Embassy in London, holding 26 hostages, 2 of whom died on May 5th after being tortured. Much of the embassy was destroyed by fire.
    ===================

    So if taking intellectual honesty into a firm grip helps us here, Scripture verses on a scope from a book accepted by the Qu’ran as Holy really won’t impact our “intended targets” that much. Yes, they may use this as a boiling point for those already boiling over with the mere drawing of cartoons (anything will and has been used as an excuse by these historically murderous cultures that are stuck in 640AD). Could you imagine this “rule” being around when George Washington said these words to the Native-Americans: “You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are.” If as Marine said that to a Muslim, he would be court marshaled. But alas, the ships that stopped the international slave trade years ago by the Brits and as they caught up to the Arab slave trade ships trying to go faster by losing weight and evidence by clubbing their African captives over the head and then throwing them overboard to their death… I am sure there would be a PC crew scouring these British ships for any tell-tale signs of proselytizing, it’s a no-win situation.

    I want to leave the reader with this thought by Robert Hume. In his book, The World’s Living Religions, he comments that there are three features of Christian faith that “cannot be paralleled anywhere among the religions of the world” [I can add here, the cults either]. These include the character of God as a loving Heavenly Father, the character of the founder of Christianity as the Son of God, and the work of the Holy Spirit. Further, he says:

    “All of the nine founders of religion, with the exception of Jesus Christ, are reported in their respective sacred scriptures as having passed through a preliminary period of uncertainty, or of searching for religious light. All the founders of the non-Christian religions evinced inconsistencies in their personal character; some of them altered their practical policies under change of circumstances. Jesus Christ alone is reported as having had a consistent God-consciousness, a consistent character himself, and a consistent program for his religion” (p.285-286).

    Peace.

  • Norris Hall

    The US has tried to bend over backwards framing this war as a war against terrorism…and not against Muslims.
    The terrorist would like nothing better than to frame Afghanistan as an Christian Crusade to defeat Islam.

    Trijicon plays right into the hands of the Jihadist.

    If you are a Jihadist recruiting suicide bombers and wanted to make the point that this is a Christian vs Muslim war and that all Muslims have an obligation to defend Islam against the Crusaders, all you have to do is point to religious verses on American manufactured gun sites as proof that these aren’t soldiers hunting terrorists…but Crusaders bent on destroying Islam.

    Absolutely irresponsible.

    A soldier who contacted MRFF said in his email: “Everyone is worried that if they were captured in combat that the enemy would use the Bible quotes against them in captivity or some other form of propaganda

  • Lance

    Ohh Norris Hall your feabling thinking Muslim Nazi think like we do. They dont they already have milions thinking none muslims are crusaders w/o a Acog scope. This is the same as in 1944 we baned Jewish people from working for Winchester and Springfield, because it plays into Nazi propaganda.

    Obserd!!!!!

    The enemy dosnt care what is on our rifles like the Jappanese in WW2 they think there false god gives them the right to inslave and take over the world. And they will do no matter if they think were christian, jewish or athist. They will stop at nothing to take over the world. And the USA is there to stop them.

  • Lance

    I ment by the WW2 example is totlaly hypothetical and dose not mean anything but anexample of what this liberal histeria thinks of.

  • Lance, great short post. These extremists can recruit people for Danish cartoons.

    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/01/19/trijicon-bible-verse-controversy/#comment-24165

    Lets call a spade a spade, whether there is some non-religious serial number on a Soviet rifle from WWII (? apparently denoting atheism ?) to verses on a scope… these people will continue to fester until somebody in history stops them. That being said, we will not win this war unless something changes (and I say this as a conservitarian), I isolated a video of Prof Ken Jowitt speaking on this subject. It made a lot of sense to me. (I came across Ken years ago tearing up three progressives/Marxists on a very left-leaning channel, he is truly a fighter from the right… which is why I respect his input on this matter.):

    http://videorow.blogspot.com/2009/12/ken-jowitt-discusses-reason-we-will.html

    Again, great input Lance.

    Squidpuppy. I wish to add to your statement a bit about crosses and broad swords:

    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/01/19/trijicon-bible-verse-controversy/#comment-24121

    These people are not “historically aware,” as some here are not either. Much like America stepping in and stopping country after country becoming Communist and being taken over by some form of Soviet influence; so too did the only organized people during the Muslim onslaught of their day do their best with what they had. I will post here for better understanding of what the Crusades were about, even if some portions of it were wrongly handled. (Taken from a philosophy 101 paper I did when I took this class with my oldest son at the local college… he [my son] is now in boot camp at Pendleton):

    ======================
    Robert Spencer talks a bit about the lead up to Christendom finally responding — rightly at first, woefully latter.

    “The Third Crusade (1188-1192). This crusade was proclaimed by Pope Gregory VIII in the wake of Saladin’s capture of Jerusalem and destruction of the Crusader forces of Hattin in 1187. This venture failed to retake Jerusalem, but it did strengthen Outremer, the crusader state that stretched along the coast of the Levant.”

    Robert Spencer, The Politically Correct Guide to Islam and the Crusades (Washington, DC: Regnery Publishing, 2005), pp. 147-148.

    The almost Political Correct myth is that the crusades were an unprovoked attack by Europe against the Islamic world (p. 122). …. Continuing:

    “The conquest of Jerusalem in 638 stood as the beginning of centuries of Muslim aggression, and Christians in the Holy Land faced an escalating spiral of persecution. A few examples: Early in the eighth century, sixty Christian pilgrims from Amorium were crucified; around the same time, the Muslim governor of Caesarea seized a group of pilgrims from Iconium and had them all executed as spies – except for a small number who converted to Islam; and Muslims demanded money from pilgrims, threatening to ransack the Church of the Resurrection if they didn’t pay. Later in the eighth century, a Muslim ruler banned displays of the cross in Jerusalem. He also increased the anti-religious tax (jizya) that Christians had to pay and forbade Christians to engage in religious instruction to others, even their own children. Brutal subordinations and violence became the rules of the day for Christians in the Holy Land. In 772, the caliph al-Mansur ordered the hands of Christians and Jews in Jerusalem to be stamped with a distinctive symbol. Conversions to Christianity were dealt with particularly harshly. In 789, Muslims beheaded a monk who had converted from Islam and plundered the Bethlehem monastery of Saint Theodosius, killing many more monks. Other monasteries in the region suffered the same fate. Early in the ninth century, the persecutions grew so severe that large numbers of Christians fled to Constantinople and other Christians cities. More persecutions in 923 saw additional churches destroyed, and in 937, Muslims went on a Palm Sunday rampage in Jerusalem, plundering and destroying the Church of Calvary and the Church of the Resurrection.” (pp. 122-123)

    One person (my pastor) said to paint a picture of the crusaders in a single year in history is like showing photos and video of Hitler hugging children and receiving flowers from them and then showing photos and video of the Allies attacking the German army. It completely forgets what Hitler and Germany had done prior.
    ======================

    This post isn’t to undermine or challenge you in anyway Squidpuppy, it is just to add to make your point clear that historically speaking, the Muslim world misconstrues this time in history as do others with political agendas here in the West.

    Peace

  • Jim

    The only proof necessary to show that the people who think this is a good thing or a minor issue is how enraged they would be if they found out that a U.S. scope manufacturer for the military was putting quotes from the Quran on their parts. Instead of “Hooah, this is what our troops need!” it would be “AHA! I knew that black Muslim was trying to poison our nation and change America! Kill him!”.

    It’s called inconsistency.

  • Y-man

    Well, from where I stand: it reeks of a certain kind of “crusader” arrogance”. Now, when some “militant” is killed by the “evil Christian occupier rifle”; you think his burial is not going to become a celebration of a matyr? Then you have a large bunch of aspiring matyrs ready to go and die facing the “Great Satan”. What does that mean: Afghanistan continues for the next 20 years, Iraq degenerates again…

    Americans should realise it is not a war: us against them: it is a global battle against terrorists and terrorism. Even Muslim countries want this war to succeed: but then the arrogance of a totally unneccessary inscription on rifles and rifle sights spoils it all. I am aware: from countrymen of mine who served in the US military in Iraq and Afghanistan, that many US (And even British) servicemen went in there with the attitude that it is us, the good, clean, all-American boys, against all the “ragheads”, and ALL the “Ay-rabs” are “Ragheads” and “Hajjis”. Well, its a whole world out there, and every one should realise that theirs is but a small corner of the world.

    Firearms, not politics (Or Religion…) in my opinion…

  • Marshall Mathers

    First In-N-Out burgers and now rifle sights.
    What’s next, urinal cakes? Here’s a suggestion: 1 Corinthians 3:6

  • Mad World

    This is actually the most pathetic issue I have heard of lately, I mean as I see it the manufacturer can put whatever they so wish on their products without having some kind of state intervention seems more of a communist thing to do than a free American one.
    Just my 2 cents.

  • 54Bravo

    Note that I never said the Gov’t added the verses, I’m just saying they were just irresponsible for not noticing it and demanding the removal, there of.

    So once again I ask, are “666”, Koran quotes, Scientology, or some weird cult quotes OK too on U.S. military equipment? No big deal, private company, trivial issue, “just numbers”, religious freedom, etc. Is that what many of you are REALLY saying, not matter what??

    Come on now, you KNOW you would be going nuts with rage, if that were the case. You think it’s no big deal because it’s Christian quotes and you wouldn’t accept proselytizing from ANY other religion and you know it.

    It’s totally unnecessary, alienates many non-Christian U.S. soldiers, and provides ideal propaganda to the enemy. What’s next, crosses below the “U.S.” on all of our gear? Why not just call the wars “Operation Crusader” and go all out?

    FIREARMS NOT POLITICS

  • Jim

    Mad World that logic is so full of holes you could use it to strain pasta.

    The government has certain rules set out regarding the separation of church and state (see: Article 1, Bill of Rights). The government purchases doodads from private companies at will, and is not obligated to buy anything from any private company. If a private company is breaching contract with the government, the government has every right to terminate that contract.

    Your position only holds if the government is telling a private company what it can or cannot put on its products that are being sold to private markets. That isn’t the case here.

  • steve

    Ummmm hello the words “in God is our Trust” are in the Star Spangled Banner. Will this be the next issue?

    The western world was formed on the basis of Christian beliefs and values. And let’s not forget that everything the muslims do is done in the name of alah. So I see nothing wrong with this – in fact I think it’s quite fitting.

    Of course our politically correct leaders will bow to the pressure of the minority that are slowing taking away our freedoms.

    Easter is coming, no doubt someone will find easter eggs in the shops offensive.

  • B

    Funny, all these folks complaining about this have no problem accepting dollars with “In God We Trust”…

  • Lance

    Strange I never meet a cop or Solder who hated there ACOG over a serial number. Christian and none.

  • Jim

    “Ummmm hello the words “in God is our Trust” are in the Star Spangled Banner. Will this be the next issue?”

    Yeah, in the long version no one sings.

    “The western world was formed on the basis of Christian beliefs and values. And let’s not forget that everything the muslims do is done in the name of alah. So I see nothing wrong with this – in fact I think it’s quite fitting.”

    Except for all the Muslim, atheist, Jewish, etc soldiers who have fought and died under the American banner. We are not, nor have we ever been a Christian nation. That is our strength. We are a diverse lot united by a love for freedom and tolerance. To permit this sort of invasion of religion into politics is to attack the very ideals that this nation was founded on. If you want to live in a Christian country move to Europe.

    “Of course our politically correct leaders will bow to the pressure of the minority that are slowing taking away our freedoms.”

    If the phrases on the scopes were from the Koran you would be complaining that your freedom of religion was being trampled. You find no issue with this only because it doesn’t negatively affect you. Can you not see that stomping on the rights of others permits and even calls them to stomp on yours? Treat everyone as you would like to be treated. Did not Christ say that?

    “Funny, all these folks complaining about this have no problem accepting dollars with “In God We Trust”…”

    I have a problem with it. Not to mention it wasn’t there until 1956.

  • Bill Lester

    The PC crowd has won. Trijicon is pulling the verse notations.

    http://www.trijicon.com/whats_new.cfm?whats_newID=170#170

    I’m sure the Hajis will feel so much better when they’re shot with the new scopes.

  • Bill Lester

    On another front, future military collectors can look forward to the rare Trijicon scopes that mysteriously retained the verses. I’m sure they’ll be more valuable than the PC versions.

  • Lance

    And the Jihadist win again as long as we bend over backwards to make badguys happy we will never win a war.

  • Jeff

    I’ll add my voice to those, like Jim, who are able to think this through a bit and not simply end their analysis at, “I’m a Christian, so this is fine with me.” As noted numerous times here, “In God We Trust” did not appear on our currency until the mid 1950’s, so it has nothing to do with the founding fathers, who BTW were NOT all Christians (see, e.g., Jefferson, Wythe, and even Washington [read up on his spiritual beliefs]). The real issue is that the U.S. government has no business issuing weapons with religious inscriptions on them.

    Yes, Trijicon already had the inscriptions on the sights, but you can be damned sure that had they been told to do so, they would have altered the casting slightly for that 600+ million dollar government contract. And that’s exactly what should have happened and is belatedly happening now. This has nothing to do with political correctness; it is a matter of not willfully providing propaganda to Muslim extremists, with zero benefit to our own troops. And this is no infringement on Trijicon’s right to put biblical references on its products; they are free to do that all day long, if the market will bear it (apparently many here are happy to buy such sights). The pentagon should specify that it is ordering equipment that bears no religious markings and if Trijicon does not want the business they can say no. Naturally, they do want the massive contract and will make the necessary changes.

    Anyone who is saying that the “libs/dems/lefties” are in a lather about nothing are just not thinking seriously about this. How about a nice big “666” on everyone’s helmet? No one likes that idea, do they? It sends a message, doesn’t it? And most folks don’t like that message. These verses send a variety of messages too, and one of them is that the U.S. military is a Christian force. Regardless of how many soldiers/sailors/airman/marines are themselves Christians (and I know many are), our armed forces are still not a Christian organization; they represent this country, which is made up of people of all (or no) faiths. That is a fact that those who want everyone to believe as they do are going to have to accept. So removing these markings is not for the benefit of pleasing the PC crowd or “badguys,” as Lance suggests, but is for ensuring that our military is representing our country and not just some people’s faith.

    • Ok ok ok. Firearms not politics (or religion).

  • Bill Lester

    +1 Lance

  • Dlw

    ++++1 lance
    And the Jihadist win again as long as we bend over backwards to make badguys happy we will never win a war.

    Watched destination tokyo recently and there was a nice discussion about having to change the culture of the japanease who give thier kids a daggers rather than roller skates. The Islamist are even worse dressing kids as homicide bombers etc

    Until we change the Muslim death culture and profound perversion we can not win. They are at war with us and we are worried about their feelings???

    If we can not even defend a good Christian company who in essence wants to fight the spiritual battle all is lost.

  • .

    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/01/19/trijicon-bible-verse-controversy/#comment-24254

    I just wanted to point out to 54Bravo when he said “FIREARMS NOT POLITICS” (emphasis in the original), that everything he spoke about was not political, but religious… so he should have said, “FIREARMS NOT RELIGION.” So far, most of what I read has been an honest exchange of positions… pretty good for the topic I must say. FireArms Blog should throw a bone like this once-and-a-while. However, being a firearms blog, I would imagine the 2nd amendment would need to be addressed from time-to-time. Is 54Bravo going to state a bunch of positions on the 2nd and then try to quell posters after him by stating (emphatically I may add), “FIREARMS NOT CONSTITUTION.” Just a question thrown to the ether of the internet.

    .

  • Lance

    Now now now no name calling

  • Sergei

    IMHO, If you are a soldier, sailor, airman or marine and take offense at these references, go ahead, take a Sharpie, and SCRATCH THEM OUT. And I doubt any Haji’s would get the reference unless it was explained to them. If they could even read english. Only 25% of Afghans are even literate, for crying out loud!

  • Dan

    its people that complain about stuff like this that are ruining america. If you dont like it dont buy it.

  • archer86

    I’ve been following this since it first came to the journalists attention, and I must say I’m quite surprised. It seems that no one cares to mention that each scripture made a reference to light. Very fitting on an optic don’t you think?

  • Bobby

    You pose the point that we would lose our minds if Islamic verses were on our rifle sights.

    Personally I find religious scripts beautiful and regardless of the religion I would be happy to have it in scripted into my rifle sight. 🙂

    Islamic, Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Pagan, etc.

    Just to throw this out there I am no preference.

    I do not believe in Christianity and don’t mind it being on my sights.

    However I find it extremely unfitting that it be on GOVERNMENT sights. Not every American is Christian.

  • .

    Bobby, I agree. Thankfully the sights sold to Gov. now do not have these verses. I also am a Christian and enjoy reading the writings of Confucius, Zarathustra, Mohammad, Siddhattha Gotama, Guru Nanak, Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russell, etc. I do read them often times for comparative religious reasons (using standards that I apply to both my faith and the faith I am dealing with), for instance, I would agree with Adler that,

    “I suspect that most of the individuals who have religious faith are content with blind faith. They feel no obligation to understand what they believe. They may even wish not to have their beliefs disturbed by thought. But if God in whom they believe created them with intellectual and rational powers that impose upon them the duty to try to understand the creed of their religion. Not to do so is to verge on superstition” (Morimer J. Adler, “A Philosopher’s Religious Faith,” in, Kelly James Clark, ed., Philosophers Who Believe: The Spiritual Journeys of 11 Leading Thinkers, p. 207)

    So I am one of the few that has an urge to “contend” for my faith with as much knowledge about it and others as I can. I apply the same tests to it [my faith] as I would apply to others, and reading and knowing their Scripture and culture is a large part of it. Professor Bush once wrote that:

    “A worldview is that basic set of assumptions that gives meaning to one’s thoughts. A worldview is the set of assumptions that someone has about the way things are, about what things are, about why things are…. … most people assume that something exists. There may be someone, perhaps, who believes that nothing exists, but who would that person be? How could he or she make such an affirmation? Sometimes in studying the history of philosophy, one may come to the conclusion that some of the viewpoints expressed actually lead to that conclusion, but no one ever consciously tries to defend the position that nothing exists. It would be a useless endeavor since there would be no one to convince. Even more significantly, it would be impossible to defend that position since, if it were true, there would be no one to make the defense. So to defend the position that nothing exists seems immediately to be absurd and self-contradictory” (L. Russ Bush, A Handbook for Christian Philosophy, p. 70).

    I hope your studies take you deeper into your faith as they did mine. Two good posts on my blog for you to continue your understanding is:

    http://religiopoliticaltalk.blogspot.com/2009/05/worldview-defined-and-explained.html

    and, http://religiopoliticaltalk.blogspot.com/2009/05/metaphysical-naturalism-or.html

    I do not often have time to write as much as I did (most of my topics are imported now), but I think you will enjoy those two insights above,

    Papa Giorgio

    .

  • Robert Biggs

    In as much as there is no other company that makes similar weapon sights as Trijicon, and they hold the patents on this technology, I would say Trijicon can do what they wish. They had the scripture verses inscribed before the purchase and did not sneak them onto the sights.

    If the government does not want to buy further scopes, that is their decision. If Trijicon wants to sell scopes in the future to the government and the government wants the scripture references off, then they (Trijicon) can make the decision of whether to sell these modified scopes or not. They may cost more as the process may have to change.

    Personally, I would not sell the government any more scopes to the government. Troops can buy their own or they can be bought for them and sent over, as I have done. I have sent Eotechs, Aimpoints, and Acogs as well as knives, bore snakes, knee and elbow pads, gloves, sun glasses, and weapons cleaning supplies as well as personal hygiene products. I have also offered to chip in on superior body armor for one individual currently killing terrorists at a wholesale rate.

    I suppose the family that owns Trijicon has plenty of bucks. Lay everyone off, file bankruptcy, let obama the oblamer figure out how to provide for these newly unemployed or sell the scopes to other folks around the world, which they already are. I find it interesting that muslim countries have probably been buying these scopes for years with not a peep.

    If the guys in the military want these advanced weapons systems for small arms, they will buy what is available, which means ACOGs.

    I agree with several posts, I don’t think I would like it if Koranic verses were on these scopes but that is not the issue. First of all the muslims could never come up with something like this. Secondly, why should we ever apologize for being a Christian nation. Sure many of the people these days are secular Christians rather than evangelical Christians, but our country is still based on the Judeo Christian concepts of right/wrong, private property, due process, and many liberties.

    Not to get into a religious debate here, but I do find it disturbing when people throw out claims that are not based on any fact whatsoever such as Jefferson and Washington not being Christians. This is an absolute lie and when a person makes this claim, it makes every bit of their previous and future arguments less than credible. Integrity and honesty are not characteristics to turn on and off to fit an argument. At least one previous post has made comments like this and I have to point out this fellow is of the lowest form and his opinion should be disregarded as he is either ignorant, or worse, he is a dishonest scoundrel. Then trying to throw some reference to read to bolster a weak lie is pathetic. You are seen through as the mental and moral midget that you are and you opinion should not be shared amongst real thinking honest adults. Hopefully you can not vote.