Glock Gen4 Unveiled!
Ed's Public Safety, a dealer that which calls itself "Georgia's #1 GLOCK Dealer and GLOCK Law Enforcement Distributor", has published photos of the Glock 22 Gen4. I am sure Glock's PR people are pretty annoyed right about now!
Glock 22 Gen4
Gen4 Dual Recoil Spring. Note magazine has two cut-outs to accommodate swappable mag release.
How the backstrap attaches. Tool provided with gun. Backstraps are marked "M" (medium) and "L" (large).
The new RTF3 texture
Gen4 frame (Top) and 3rd Gen Frame (Bottom)
So just to summarize all the point about the Glock Gen4 ...
- Initially Glock 17 (9mm) and Glock 22 (.40 S&W) will be available. Compact models will follow later in 2010.
- Features duel recoil spring which should increase reliability.
- Features Swappable backstraps.
- Magazine release swappable between left and right.
- Old magazines still work, but only when mag release is on left side.
- Gen4 slide is clearly marked as "Gen4".
- Retail price for G17 and G22 Gen4 is about $700 (actual prices will be lower than this).
- Glock will cease sales of the 3rd Generation and RTF models.
[Hat Tip: Pistol Training]
Ho hum. Maybe now all the Glock fanboys that criticize the “improvements” that other polymer lines (XD, M&P, etc.) introduced will settle down.
I (a Glock fanboy) still wont buy one for anything close to that kind of premium. I would be willing to go up to around $550, but why should I pay a $100-$200 premium to fix a flaw in the original Glock design. I love Glocks, but if they want to sell more pistols then they need to introduce these improved models at a much more realistic price point. There is no value added if they are asking consumers to fork out an additional $200. I will also wait for atleast a good year or so to see if there are any bugs that need to be worked out with the functional changes that they have made.
now, they need to add a grip safety..
I hope Glock continues to offer their OD (“pea soup”) Green frame as an option.
I like it. I’ll keep my Gen 3 as a collecters item, like my Gen 2 and 1. I’ll buy a new one for sure though. As my go to pistol.
Perhaps I missed other it in other discussions, but when do they plan on releasing the full sized models? As a left handed shooter I like the new ambi feature on the Gen 4 !
I am looking forward to the replaceable backstraps. I loved them on the HK P2000 that I had (but sold it due to the trigger).
Just one comment: on the last picture, isn’t the gen 3 frame on the left?
Jeff, you may be right. They remvoed the photo and uploaded a new one. I have updated with the new photo.
Hi All,
This is mine first time here and let me start by wishing everyone a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
I’m a Glock owner but it’s not my favorite weapon by any stretch of the imagination. I’m sure the real “Glockies” know it but most of the wannabes keep telling me Glock doesn’t make a .45 Cal. Mine’s a Model 21, double-stack-14 rd. magazine, .45. I think what throws everyone is that it was a law enforcement only weapon. It is extremely accurate, and has never failed with approximately 7,000 rds. or so fired. It’s just so damned ugly and I don’t like not having a safety. I’m also not really into DA only pistols. I own probably somewhere between 35 and 40 .45′s, all different, but I keep going back to my Para-Ordinance P-14 or the P-14 for concealed carry.
We are currently selling them in the store, so I don’t know why Glock’s PR folks would be annoyed. If we didn’t post pictures and promote them you can bet the folks that are buying them would be and will be posting their own pictures.
This is a great design by Glock. I have relatively small hands and this grip fits me perfect. The texture is also a home run. It gives a very positive grip but isn’t abrasive.
Don Anderson
Ed’s Public Safety
Don, not your fault for photographing it! Their fault for shipping it before the big SHOT Show launch
When it comes to internal parts is the only change the recoil spring?
Still want to handle one before I pass judgment. Until then I’ll remain unconvinced that the backstraps will fix my issues with the glock grip…
I was really worried on what they would do but it seems they didn’t dissapoint, the changes seem right, anything else would be a different gun, what they have done does make me want it. I just hope there’s no internal lock or anything like that. And I’m still rooting for a merge of compact with subcompact into one, that would make models 19, 23, 29, 30, 32 and 38 all have a 3.75 in barrel and a grip somewhere between compact and subcompact, say 13 rounds on the 19. of course that would get rid of the subcompacts.
Steve,
I really enjoy reading your blog, and it is in the spirit gratitude, public service, Christmas, and taking your blog to the next level that I post this:
The difference between duel:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/duel
–noun
1. a prearranged combat between two persons, fought with deadly weapons according to an accepted code of procedure, esp. to settle a private quarrel.
and dual:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dual
–adjective
1. of, pertaining to, or noting two.
You always write “duel” when you mean “dual.”
Mike, thanks, I do always foget that
Merging compact and subcompact would in fact be a great idea because it would allow models 29, 30 and 36 to have a more appropriate frame length.
So it would be models 17, 22, 20, 21, 31 and 37 full size, and then Gen4 compact models would be 19, 23, 29, 30, 32, 38 and 36 all with a 3.75 in. barrels and a frame somwhere between the compacts and the subcompacts, that would allow for the interchangeable backstraps, say for example 13 rounds on the new Gen4 model 19. This would of course get rid of the subcompacts.
i guess i am not in the loop on these interchangeable backstraps. Th problem with the standard Glock frame is simply this: When the arm is extended with the wrist naturally straight, the barrel points qute high and it is necessary to cant one’s wrist down to bring the muzzle on target. Will these musical backstraps alleviate this problem or are we merely dealing with the large and smaller versions of the basic problem?
hey guys,
happy christmas to all of you!
one question about the 4th gen: does the dual-spring system feature a steel guide rod? or is it still plastic?
best regards from germany,
max
I love my 7 Glocks and see them for what they are; a tremdously
durable and reliable pistol at a great price. Having said that,
does anyone know how, or if, Crimson Trace laser grips will
be affected by the new Gen4 grips?
I now have 3 S&W M&P pistols and CT did a great job on that
platform, and I hope Glock can emmulate.
I see no problem with Gen. 3 Glocks. All of mine work fine. That includes Glocks 26, 27, 19, 23, 32, and 17.
Increase reliablity? What is there to increase?
The backstrap is ok, but no biggie. Mine are fine.
Extra $200. Hahahaha. Sure. Go ahead and try to charge it, all you will do is get a big run on Gen. 3 guns!
Derek, the large angle of the Glock grip is not a problem, it’s a feature: Canting your wrist down lowers the bore axis towards your lower arm axis thus reducing torque from recoil and muzzle flip, permitting faster aimed shooting.
I fully agree that a grip angle such as the 1911 is more naturally comfortable than the Glock. But a pistol is not a tool for achieving maximum comfort. Shoot more and chances are you’ll get used to it.
Why should one want to get used to a pistol that points up in the air when you naturally extend your arm…Anyone can adapt to compensate for design flaws but in a defensive weapon the disastrous hump that Glock is so fond of could cost your life. Why not just tweak the design ever so little to correct the flaw?.. The luger frame could serve as an example of the same basic style of frame yet one that points immediately where it should with a straight (natural) wrist.
What Derek said. You can force yourself to get used to anything. Why put effort in that, when you could chose an ergonomically correct grip and spend your efforts on something productive?
I was expecting Glock would wise up and have the elimination of that extreme grip angle hump (which also makes the grip too large for many shooters) as an optional back-strap when they finally got around to the modern era – but apparently his ego would not allow that. I see little difference between the offered backstraps – why even bother?
It is my belief that 98% of gun owners don’t know the proper way to hold a firearm. That’s why they complain about Glock and other similar gun with that kind of grip angle.
You can’t fix bad technique with better engineer guns. The mental scars will built on top of each other and thus never improving, just more whining.
Hopefully, when someone gets their hands on one, we can get a circumference measurement of the different grip sizes.
FWIW, I have moved from SIGs to Glocks and really like the Glock grip angle. For me, it feels like I’m pointing more naturally. Just my 2 cents.
Well, lets not confuse the issues. I agree that the hump on the bottom of the grip is weird and wouldn’t mind seeing it go. But the grip/wrist angle is a good thing that probably makes the pistol more effective.
Why put effort into training? Why force yourself to get used to something that will make you more effective?
The answers to these questions are self-evident, gentlemen.
There are things that are more comfortable than shooting a pistol. But they won’t do the job that a pistol will. By shooting a pistol you are already sacrificing being comfortable for achieveing some sort of effect.
The bottom line is: Glocks simply point high unless you bend your wrist at an unnatural angle. Other pistols don’t. Glock should fix it…they won’t, hence the vast cottage industry of grip cobblers, some good some atrocious…A true pistolero wants his gun to be an extension of his arm. Jeff Cooper would agree were he still around…Enuf said.
Nice little evolutions, especially the texturing. The back strap swap outs will allow for a greater appeal to folks with larger or smaller hands, again offering a better market penetration. I’m wondering if we’ll be able to upgrade the Gen2 and 3 pistols to the new recoil spring system without issue and if so when can we get them!
I might snag one of the 17′s or 26′s when they roll that out later this year. But then again, ha ha ha ha, maybe the Gen 3 prices will drop some more as folks “upgrade” 
Derek, my question to you would be, if the Glock grip angle doesn’t work for you, why not go towards something like the XD/XDM? With the more 1911-ish ergonomics that would seem to be a more appropriate choice for your grip. I know I didn’t and don’t shoot well with the 21/22 or 30 because of the grip girth, but snagged a 19 on a whim and it’s supplanted my other carry gun simply because it is a more nature pointing weapon for me. I attribute that to my thumbs forward grip but I’ve never noticed the upwards cant that you’ve been taking issue with. Then again, my .45 poly gun is an XD specifically because of the grip ergonomics and trigger. Just sayin’
Carl,
I agree with you. The lack of investing in training by the vast majority of gun owners is unbelievable. They actually want their guns to shot for them.
When I watch youtube videos and go to a public range (very rare these days), I notice almost all the shooters don’t know the proper way to hold a firearms.
Jeff,
Glock has one of the best grip for handgun. The problem is that in order to take full advantage of it you need to understand how to hold a handgun properly. That only comes from training.
The two most use handguns in high level completion are 1911 and Glocks. These two handguns combine make over 70% of the field. The two handguns that contractors take with them to the sandbox are 1911 and Glocks. If Glock is that bad and you can’t hit anything with it then why are these people using it in high level completions and risking their lives in the sandbox?
One thing about backstrap. You won’t see them in the sandbox because it is another point of failure. Things break when you run gears hard. Backstrap are acceptable in the civilians world because gun owners don’t go to the range that much and they won’t exposed the guns to abuses.
I’ve been shooting Glocks for 20 years. Whenever I pick up a 1911, I can’t see the front sight … the muzzle points too low. Maybe 1911s should correct their grip angles?
The bottom line is: There is no such thing as “natural grip angle”, just what the individual has most time in training/shooting.
Jimon 25 Dec 2009 at 5:21 am
now, they need to add a grip safety..
why?
The grip angle of Glocks is wildly exaggerated.
There’s a difference compared to a 1911, yes, but it’s quite small in the end and far from “unnatural”. The wrist has quite a bit of natural movement and it easily covers all the angles from a Luger to an Uzi.
For someone who only ever shot a Glock, the 1911 grip angle will feel incorrect and they claim that the gun points down when they simply extend their arm. It’s just a matter of what you’re used to.
A “natural” grip angle does not exist, except in the minds of people who can’t be bothered to learn new things. (Goes for those Glock-jockeys too, who claim that the Glock grip angle is the only correct one.)
Sauli, you’re right to a point. There are “technically” better ergonomics involved in the angle of the 1911 and it’s successors. This concept is derived from the common angle the human wrist has when at rest and you can also see this angle when you are shaking hands. This is an age old debate, yet what it comes down to is shoot what works and feels best for you.
In my mind you should have primary weapons, especially if you carry a concealed pistol, that you train with on a consistent basis. While I encourage those I teach to shoot, shoot and then go buy more ammo and do it again, I also recommend that they not constrain themselves to just one platform for several reasons.
First being, you never know what’s going to be available when you need it. It helps to have at least a functional knowledge of as many types as you can. Second is that you never know what might leap out at you as “the” one for you.
The Glock is one of those that didn’t work for me for the longest time. I thought it was the grip angle for that same time. Then, out of the blue I shot a buddies G19 and the Angels sang and learning occurred. In the years it had been since I had last shot a Glock, my grip, stance and even my method of aiming had all evolved. Many of my preferences also changed and I pushed harder and harder in my practice and training. So now I find my G19 far preferable over my 1911 and even over my SIG’s or XD’s. While I’m still not a fan of wheel guns and ergonomics is one of the primary reasons.. I never turn down an opportunity to give one a try.
It all absolutely comes to a matter of preference, so I encourage folks to keep checking out different weapons when the opportunity arises! You never know when that Ah-Ha moment might strike… well that and you get to shoot and shoot some more!
Ill take my XD and my King Cobra thanks..
Are the internals the same?
Well I can tell you all this fellows. I have been working for Glock for over 26 years now and a lot the input we get off these forums is the blueprint for which we design our guns to. Don’t be to surprised when in the near future gen 5 comes out you will see some radical changes, we have incorporated some very cool stuff. Gen 5 will introduce the very first Glock with external hammer, interchangeable front and rear sights, quick release magazines, and my fav: inertia powered recoil management.
More to cum fellows, stay tuned.
GG Glock expert
I’m the biggest Glock fan ever but I do not see this as being a significant improvement. Changing backstraps and modifying a recoil spring are not significant upgrades. The only takers will likely be departments already carrying Glocks that are looking to replace existing weapons.
Glock makes great pistols but sadly has been out of the innovation business for many years.
I handled the Gen4 today at Ed’s and can’t say I was really blown away by this. It’s not like the 17 or 22 were ever that big and required grip reduction. I thought the two stage recoil spring system was a bit cheesy as they were stamped metal. Something exciting to me would be a tactical/practical length .45 with the SF frame and RTF stipling. Everytime I go to the armorers course I mention this and it falls on deaf Austrian ears…
The “generation upgrades” have never been “significant improvements”. More like fine tuning of and small additions to an already good design.
Adding “significant upgrades” just for the hell of it is not a good thing. If it aint broke, don’t fix it.
I would liked to have seen total ambidextrous controls though, including slide catch. Not just a reversible mag release.
Glock with external hammer; yes… good luck with that…
Pure genius. The complaint of the Glock being too big for smaller/female hands is addressed by ADDING a backstrap to the grip. Hey, Glock, all the other companies make removable backstraps so you can add a SMALLER backstrap to REDUCE the size of the grip.
Get an XD.
How in the heck is a removable backstrap going to get “run hard in the sandbox” to the point of failure? What a joke. What are you going to do, hammer nails with them? LOL! If the backstrap falls off, the gun runs just fine without one. Same goes for the M&P. Same goes for the XD (which isn’t a serious tactical pistol to begin with, though.)
Point of failure. Please. Get a grip.
No it doesn’t run find. The backstrap fell off. You don’t see many guns with backstraps in the sandbox. It isn’t my opinion it is just facts.
AR runs to the point of failure in Pat Roger civilians carbine class and many like it. Most carbine class last 2 to 3 days. It is no where near the level that you will see in the sandbox. There is a constant maintenance on all type of weapons and gears.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=360169
Here are AR15 in the sandbox. Some of them very abused very damaged.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=315432&page=1
Guns are tools.When it is heavily used, heavily abused it will fail. Like all tools they will wear out, it is not if it is when.
The vast majority of contractors use 1911 and Glocks. No XD, no S&W M&P, no backstrap.
They are adding *the feature* of changing the grip size. Not *adding to* the grip size. It goes without saying that the grip without backstraps will be smaller than it was on the previous version.
I’m not entirely convinced it’ll be a change for the better though. I guess we’ll know in a couple of years or so…
Why would the “operators in the sandbox” use 1911? It has grip sides that can fail just as much as a backstrap as far as I can tell. It also contains many more parts in general than a Glock.
to Glock Expert,
Any word if the Gen 4 will be CA approved?
I work in a gun store and every time one of the customers comes into the store and bad mouths a glock, all I have to say is name another gun manu. that passed all 5 tests.
ENOUGH SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In my humble opinion, Glock is the best pistol made bar none. 12 years of military and 8 years CA law enforcement, I have shot several brands of guns and I always go back to my Gen 1 Glock 22.
Why would Glock change perfection and go to a hammer.
Anthony,
Have they submitted the Gen 4 to the CA DOJ for approval?
Glock should have introduced all these features for the SAME price as the current Glocks. They already have significant penetration and were the initial innovator in this area which gives them a huge market advantage that will likely not be exhausted in my lifetime.
Get with it Gaston! Where is my Generation4 model 31??? The 357 Sig cartridge is not being neglected by Law Enforcement but civilians by comparision are in the dark.Everyone toting 40 cals should be using 357 Sigs instead. The 40 is a compromise round thar excels in neither high velocity nor big bore heavy bullet weight.The 40 was for the FBI agents who were made wimps by the 10mm auto cartridge.So where is the model 31 Gen4? Get one to Mahoney’s Johnson City TN,thanks Gaston. Jim