Comments on: Magpul 7.62x51mm PMAG 20-LR http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/14/magpul-7-62x51mm-pmag-20-lr/ Firearms not Politics Fri, 10 Feb 2012 23:24:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Ty http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/14/magpul-7-62x51mm-pmag-20-lr/comment-page-1/#comment-82469 Ty Sun, 08 Jan 2012 15:59:35 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9913#comment-82469 Does anyone know if Magpul is going to create a 7.62x51mm (.308 Winchester) mag that holds 30 rounds? This is for a Masada/Bushmaster ACR. Thanks, Ty Does anyone know if Magpul is going to create a 7.62x51mm (.308 Winchester) mag that holds 30 rounds? This is for a Masada/Bushmaster ACR. Thanks, Ty

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]]> By: Chrontius http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/14/magpul-7-62x51mm-pmag-20-lr/comment-page-1/#comment-59019 Chrontius Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:56:26 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9913#comment-59019 I know the Kel-Tec RFB is supposed to be FAL compatible, but can anybody say definitively if these work with it? I know the Kel-Tec RFB is supposed to be FAL compatible, but can anybody say definitively if these work with it?

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]]> By: charles222 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/14/magpul-7-62x51mm-pmag-20-lr/comment-page-1/#comment-54219 charles222 Sat, 29 Jan 2011 04:42:14 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9913#comment-54219 I've seen a SCAR-H be shot on full-auto before, in 5-round bursts; it's very controllable. I’ve seen a SCAR-H be shot on full-auto before, in 5-round bursts; it’s very controllable.

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]]> By: Heath http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/14/magpul-7-62x51mm-pmag-20-lr/comment-page-1/#comment-35323 Heath Tue, 01 Jun 2010 16:22:08 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9913#comment-35323 Hey, does anyone know if they will offer this PMag in something a little smaller? I am limited here in my state to magazines which hold fewer than 11 rounds for hunting deer. Hey, does anyone know if they will offer this PMag in something a little smaller? I am limited here in my state to magazines which hold fewer than 11 rounds for hunting deer.

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/14/magpul-7-62x51mm-pmag-20-lr/comment-page-1/#comment-28304 Steve Mon, 08 Mar 2010 23:23:54 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9913#comment-28304 Thank God, where have these been? Never had a problem with my DPMS factory mags or my C-Products but these are awesome! hehe yippee! Thank God, where have these been? Never had a problem with my DPMS factory mags or my C-Products but these are awesome! hehe yippee!

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/14/magpul-7-62x51mm-pmag-20-lr/comment-page-1/#comment-28303 Steve Mon, 08 Mar 2010 23:21:58 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9913#comment-28303 20 round in my DPMS, Hooray! 20 round in my DPMS, Hooray!

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]]> By: Jesse http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/14/magpul-7-62x51mm-pmag-20-lr/comment-page-1/#comment-24505 Jesse Sun, 24 Jan 2010 00:19:03 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9913#comment-24505 I assume they are working on a 7.62 x 54 emag I assume they are working on a 7.62 x 54 emag

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]]> By: destroyer http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/14/magpul-7-62x51mm-pmag-20-lr/comment-page-1/#comment-23782 destroyer Sat, 16 Jan 2010 05:36:22 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9913#comment-23782 OMG! my hopes got raised too high! i thought somebody would actually produce good polymer magazines for the M1A!!!! OMG! my hopes got raised too high! i thought somebody would actually produce good polymer magazines for the M1A!!!!

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]]> By: Heath http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/14/magpul-7-62x51mm-pmag-20-lr/comment-page-1/#comment-23642 Heath Thu, 14 Jan 2010 04:10:15 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9913#comment-23642 I ordered one of these as a gift for my brother. I'll make it over to his house to play with it eventually. I ordered one of these as a gift for my brother. I’ll make it over to his house to play with it eventually.

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]]> By: TJL http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/14/magpul-7-62x51mm-pmag-20-lr/comment-page-1/#comment-23533 TJL Mon, 11 Jan 2010 23:44:13 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9913#comment-23533 Check Mate Industries *(CMI)* who are the current USGI M14 mag manufacturer makes a 25 round M14 mag also. Check Mate Industries *(CMI)* who are the current USGI M14 mag manufacturer makes a 25 round M14 mag also.

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]]> By: Daniel E. Watters http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/14/magpul-7-62x51mm-pmag-20-lr/comment-page-1/#comment-21799 Daniel E. Watters Thu, 17 Dec 2009 00:38:33 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9913#comment-21799 FWIW: There was a 25rd magazine for the 7.62x51mm Galil variant, and I understand that ArmaLite is now offering one for their current AR-10. Eventually, you'll run into the issue of the magazine becoming too long to comfortably go prone. For example, some users of the Stg44 complained of the same issue with their 30rd magazines. Note that the 7.92x33mm round has the same case head diameter as the 7.62mm NATO. Very few four-column magazines have been successful. The most prolific was the 50rd "coffin mag" for the Soumi SMG. FWIW: There was a 25rd magazine for the 7.62x51mm Galil variant, and I understand that ArmaLite is now offering one for their current AR-10. Eventually, you’ll run into the issue of the magazine becoming too long to comfortably go prone. For example, some users of the Stg44 complained of the same issue with their 30rd magazines. Note that the 7.92x33mm round has the same case head diameter as the 7.62mm NATO.

Very few four-column magazines have been successful. The most prolific was the 50rd “coffin mag” for the Soumi SMG.

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]]> By: Carl http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/14/magpul-7-62x51mm-pmag-20-lr/comment-page-1/#comment-21758 Carl Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:01:21 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9913#comment-21758 Also, someone should look into four-column magazines, like in the 9x19 Spectre M4: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectre_M4 Also, someone should look into four-column magazines, like in the 9×19 Spectre M4:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectre_M4

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]]> By: Carl http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/14/magpul-7-62x51mm-pmag-20-lr/comment-page-1/#comment-21755 Carl Wed, 16 Dec 2009 15:57:10 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9913#comment-21755 jdun1911, spring elasticity... so effectively in the end it depends on the spring being able to handle the weight and/or the inertia of the cartridges? I guess you also can't have too much spring force or it'll overcome the feed lips. I've been by told an engineer though that as long as you run springs within their design limits they should last more or less forever. And that it is only when you exceed the limits they lose strength. I don't know if that's true or not though. I think a wider magwell probably could help a lot with designing new high-capacity polymer magazine systems. That'll give you room to make thicker and stiffer feed lips and sides on the magazine, thus enabling a higher spring force and more rounds. jdun1911, spring elasticity… so effectively in the end it depends on the spring being able to handle the weight and/or the inertia of the cartridges?

I guess you also can’t have too much spring force or it’ll overcome the feed lips.

I’ve been by told an engineer though that as long as you run springs within their design limits they should last more or less forever. And that it is only when you exceed the limits they lose strength. I don’t know if that’s true or not though.

I think a wider magwell probably could help a lot with designing new high-capacity polymer magazine systems. That’ll give you room to make thicker and stiffer feed lips and sides on the magazine, thus enabling a higher spring force and more rounds.

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]]> By: AurĂ©lien http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/14/magpul-7-62x51mm-pmag-20-lr/comment-page-1/#comment-21740 AurĂ©lien Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:34:49 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9913#comment-21740 "I wondering if they reduce the powder on the cartridge to get that control. Clearly they did something if not reduce the powder charge, maybe a very good muzzle break or maybe he is just very good/experience at controlling it. Firing full auto is pretty much useless in 7.62 battle rifle like the FAL." Well with an awful lot of live fire drills and training you can get to that result. Keep in mind that the guy balances himself forward too, and its something you dont have to do when tou shoot weaker calibres in full auto. Anyhow, battle rifles are not made for full-auto combat use. Then are semi-auto rifle that are able to fire full-auto in case of emergency. In the late 40s the 20rds mag was pretty much double or quadruple what a standard rifle could store, and in semi-auto fire you can pretty much drop 15 to 20 people with that when trained. On the other hand, the russian went the other (german) way : they developped weak munitions and rifle made for full-auto fire with a 30 to 40rds mag, made to be used by untrained people. The semi auto mode was not to be used unless you were really out of ammo. And that's the assault rifle concept. Efficiency vs volume of fire. And the SCAR Mag is a FAL mag modified. Got my hands and both. They are the same, the only difference is how they lock in the gun. “I wondering if they reduce the powder on the cartridge to get that control. Clearly they did something if not reduce the powder charge, maybe a very good muzzle break or maybe he is just very good/experience at controlling it. Firing full auto is pretty much useless in 7.62 battle rifle like the FAL.”

Well with an awful lot of live fire drills and training you can get to that result. Keep in mind that the guy balances himself forward too, and its something you dont have to do when tou shoot weaker calibres in full auto.

Anyhow, battle rifles are not made for full-auto combat use. Then are semi-auto rifle that are able to fire full-auto in case of emergency. In the late 40s the 20rds mag was pretty much double or quadruple what a standard rifle could store, and in semi-auto fire you can pretty much drop 15 to 20 people with that when trained.
On the other hand, the russian went the other (german) way : they developped weak munitions and rifle made for full-auto fire with a 30 to 40rds mag, made to be used by untrained people. The semi auto mode was not to be used unless you were really out of ammo. And that’s the assault rifle concept.
Efficiency vs volume of fire.

And the SCAR Mag is a FAL mag modified. Got my hands and both. They are the same, the only difference is how they lock in the gun.

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]]> By: jdun1911 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/14/magpul-7-62x51mm-pmag-20-lr/comment-page-1/#comment-21698 jdun1911 Wed, 16 Dec 2009 00:12:02 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9913#comment-21698 Carl, I would assume it would be the spring elastic limit. A 30 round 7.62 x 51 NATO magazine will reach its elastic limit much much faster then a 20 round magazine. Everytime you compress and decompress the spring elasticity degrade a little bit. The spring strength must be able to keep up with fire rate of the firearm. If it couldn't, failure to feed happen. Some of you probably wonder if you keep it the magazine loaded will it degrade the spring elasticity. Unless the elasticity limit have been already reached the answer is no. It will not degrade the spring. Only compressing and decompressing does the spring eventually wear out. Heath, Looks like it. Carl,

I would assume it would be the spring elastic limit. A 30 round 7.62 x 51 NATO magazine will reach its elastic limit much much faster then a 20 round magazine.

Everytime you compress and decompress the spring elasticity degrade a little bit. The spring strength must be able to keep up with fire rate of the firearm. If it couldn’t, failure to feed happen.

Some of you probably wonder if you keep it the magazine loaded will it degrade the spring elasticity. Unless the elasticity limit have been already reached the answer is no. It will not degrade the spring. Only compressing and decompressing does the spring eventually wear out.

Heath,

Looks like it.

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]]> By: Heath http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/14/magpul-7-62x51mm-pmag-20-lr/comment-page-1/#comment-21681 Heath Tue, 15 Dec 2009 20:56:59 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9913#comment-21681 Is this one and the same? http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=838956 Is this one and the same?

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=838956

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]]> By: Carl http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/14/magpul-7-62x51mm-pmag-20-lr/comment-page-1/#comment-21669 Carl Tue, 15 Dec 2009 16:31:04 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9913#comment-21669 By the way, what is the reason for using 20 rounds? It seems like you could probably get like 25 or so without ending up with an overly long magazine, and I think there are 30 rounders for the FAL. Not sure if they're reliable though. By the way, what is the reason for using 20 rounds? It seems like you could probably get like 25 or so without ending up with an overly long magazine, and I think there are 30 rounders for the FAL. Not sure if they’re reliable though.

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]]> By: Carl http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/14/magpul-7-62x51mm-pmag-20-lr/comment-page-1/#comment-21668 Carl Tue, 15 Dec 2009 16:26:39 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9913#comment-21668 So on 10 mags you save what, $300 vs steel mags? Not really a fortune compared to the rest of your kit and ammo it seems like. But if they're just as good it's obviously a no-brainer. I wasn't suggesting that full auto 7.62 nato is actually a practical option in general. I've tried it with the G3 with less than stellar results. But I bet you could learn to do it reasonably well with a lot of training. And being big and strong probably helps. But then there is the limited magazine capacity of course... so probably not very useful even if you could hit what you were aiming at. So on 10 mags you save what, $300 vs steel mags? Not really a fortune compared to the rest of your kit and ammo it seems like. But if they’re just as good it’s obviously a no-brainer.

I wasn’t suggesting that full auto 7.62 nato is actually a practical option in general. I’ve tried it with the G3 with less than stellar results.
But I bet you could learn to do it reasonably well with a lot of training. And being big and strong probably helps. But then there is the limited magazine capacity of course… so probably not very useful even if you could hit what you were aiming at.

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]]> By: Daniel E. Watters http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/14/magpul-7-62x51mm-pmag-20-lr/comment-page-1/#comment-21661 Daniel E. Watters Tue, 15 Dec 2009 15:34:18 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9913#comment-21661 I have not seen any detailed specifications on the SCAR-H magazine. This is just a market survey to determine what is commercially available. As for the current AR-10 magazine, you have to remember that Mark Westrom designed the rifle during the high capacity magazine ban. He went for the modified M14 magazine as these were more available than the original AR-10 magazines. I have not seen any detailed specifications on the SCAR-H magazine. This is just a market survey to determine what is commercially available.

As for the current AR-10 magazine, you have to remember that Mark Westrom designed the rifle during the high capacity magazine ban. He went for the modified M14 magazine as these were more available than the original AR-10 magazines.

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]]> By: Matt Groom http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/14/magpul-7-62x51mm-pmag-20-lr/comment-page-1/#comment-21658 Matt Groom Tue, 15 Dec 2009 14:34:33 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9913#comment-21658 Jdun1911, It happens in any magazine where the lips are thicker than the original material used. Glass reinforced polymers are very tough because they stretch and flex and eventually the material will become brittle as if by work hardening and break. Granted, this may take 20 years, but it will happen. What Magpul said and what I've said are practically identical. I think Pmags are superior to nearly everything out there, but I'm not gonna get rid of all my Aluminum GI mags any time soon. Jdun1911,

It happens in any magazine where the lips are thicker than the original material used. Glass reinforced polymers are very tough because they stretch and flex and eventually the material will become brittle as if by work hardening and break. Granted, this may take 20 years, but it will happen. What Magpul said and what I’ve said are practically identical. I think Pmags are superior to nearly everything out there, but I’m not gonna get rid of all my Aluminum GI mags any time soon.

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