Winchester PDX1 Self Defense Shotshell ammo

pdx1_410pack_shells-tfb

Next year Winchester Ammunition will introduce a line of self defense shotshell ammunition called Supreme Elite PDX1.

.410 Gauge Bonded PDX1

The PDX1 2.5″ .410 gauge round is optimized for use with the Taurus Judge revolver. The reduced recoil round is loaded with three 000 Buckshot sized discs backed by 12 BB sized pellets.

A buckshot / slug combo is utilized in the 2.75″ PDX1 12 gauge round. A 1 oz. Targeting Ranger Slug is pushed at 1200 fps and is backed by three 00 buckshot pellets. It too uses a reduced recoil load.

The .410 and 12 gauge rounds will be available in February and March respectively.

It is good to see more self defense specific shotgun ammunition being developed. I wonder if the ammunition being developed in response to more Americans choosing shotguns for defense, or is being developed in the hope that people will see the ammunition and buy a shotgun to use it … a chicken and egg problem.

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Steve Johnson

Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.


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  • Bill Lester

    Steve wrote: “I wonder if the ammunition being developed in response to more Americans choosing shotguns for defense, or is being developed in the hope that people will see the ammunition and buy a shotgun to use it … a chicken and egg problem.”

    It’s almost certainly in reaction to the surprising popularity of the Taurus Judge. There aren’t many .410 shotguns out there and beyond the Saigas, most of that small number are aimed at the small bore hunting/clays market. I’d bet there are several Judges sold for every Saiga.

  • Matt Groom

    It’s .410 Bore. It’s actually about 67.5 Gauge.

    • http://www.thefirearmblog.com Steve

      Matt, its .410 caliber. Bore is what the Brits call Gauge. But because most people think its gauge and the industry markets it as “.410 gauge” I just go with that.

  • Lance

    Sweet metal buckshot. It be nice to Law Enforement and Security.

  • Kurgen99

    Wow, “exotic” ammo made by a major manufacturer. I’ve done some research over the years about the “right” home defense shotgun ammo, and rounds such as these have usually been dismissed as gimmicky.

    Reduced recoil 00 Buck is the current favorite with the “experts.”

  • http://www.predatorwild.com Heath

    No doubt Taurus Judge owners will be tickled with the release of this ammunition!

  • CMathews

    I’d be curious to see a high speed camera shot of these “discs” in flight. They look like they would be quite unstable.

  • Don

    I am a revolver guy. I don’t like the judge. I don’t understand what the allure is. It would actually be a shotgun pistol if it was at least 20ga or something like that. The lady next door over uses a .410 over/under to keep rodents out of her garden. She’s got the right idea. The .410 also makes clays a bit more fun.

    In the woods, or just about anywhere I’d rather have more barrel in the OAL and a 250gr good-old-fashioned hunk of lead than a freakishly long bit of cylinder and some UFOs backed by little beads.

    -D

  • Don

    The new Extreme Supreme Elite PDXXX will be plated in gold, endorsed by Vin Diesel and the UFOs will be embossed with little skull-and-crossbones to enhance penetration from short barreled revolvers. The CA version of this exciting new self-defense ammo will be limited to two UFOs only one of which may have either a skull OR a crossbones, but not both.

    I heard this in… in a magazine… or somewhere.

    -D

    • Terry Gilliam

      Maybe you are one of those crack shots that will always rise to the threat with great skill and heroism Don, and know you would never need anything to up your odds of hitting an intruder under conditions 99 percent of us ” in my opinion ” may not calmly place that first round on target every time as you know you will. That being said i think most people see this gun and load as a way of having a simple to use revolver that is likely to shoot,[ even with a limp wrist ] and put some early painful or maybe even lethal shots on target even if in a high stress situation where our trigger control may not be at its best before our 5 or six shots are gone forever. I have seen trained police empty high capacity mags from short range without a hit on vidio more than once. If i knew i would not miss i would rather have a 230 grain long colt hp in all 6 holes and not every other one also. So im not one who is misled in thinking pdx1s are so devestating anywhere inside a house. I am one who is willing to trade off some some stopping power for much higher odds of making his target not nearly as easy and worthwhile as he may have thought before those first 3 or 4 pellets and 5 or six bbs that may only penetrate as little as 2 and 6 inches respectivly need attetion. I do recomend 6 inch barrel if you agree with some of the reasons stated here but think three inch can be effective. The judge or raging judge is not for everyone but we cant all be stupid for thinking it has some benefits inside a house.

  • Matt Groom

    Let’s look at this technically, Steve:

    The “Bore” is the part of the barrel that’s drilled before being rifled. When the barrel is rifled, the top of the rifling is the lands and the valleys are the grooves, therefore, on a rifled barrel, the bore diameter is the distance between the lands across the diameter of the bore’s diameter. The caliber, on the other hand, is the size of the projectile which should fill the grooves of a rifled barrel. Most older cartridge designations (often egregiously referred to as “caliber”) are actually of the bore diameter, and not the caliber, which is the diameter of the projectile. For example, .270 Winchester is actually .277 caliber. .270 is the bore diameter according to SAAMI. .30-06 is nominally .308″ Groove, and approximately .300″ bore, etc.

    Caliber is the projectile, not the cartridge, and bore is not caliber. Since a .410″ shell’s slug is approximately .452″, .410″ Shell is actually the cartridge’s name, since .410″ does not represent its bore, caliber, or gauge. So technically, we’re both wrong.

  • http://www.red-alerts.com Rob Taylor

    I have a .410/.45 survivor that I’d like to run these through. The 410 gets a bad rap, light enough for my non-gun nut spouse to handle effectively and when I’m woodsloafing or camping I can carry a lot more ammon for tree rats, killer tin cans and with all the .410 buck out there now the occasional feral dog.

  • Bill Lester

    CMathews,

    They’ll probably be quite stable at ranges typical for defensive shootings. Essentially they’re lightweight wadcutters. Multiple wadcutter loads are nothing new, they’ve been used by revolver experimenters for many decades. IIRC there was even a factory loaded .455 Webley circa WWI that featured two wadcutters per cartridge. The downside is that these kinds of loads lose energy and velocity quickly due to limited mass and poor ballistic coefficient.

    Don,

    I agree, after shooting a Judge shortly after they appeared on the market I don’t see the appeal. But sell it has and I suppose it’s good ammo manufacturers are trying to make it somewhat more effective.

  • http://www.kaliber.hu gvass

    I actually think it is a good idea. The old civil war buck-and-ball load replicated.

    I want to see gelatin tests, but I suppose, that within 3 yards (CQB), the tissue destruction of this new round will outclass conventional handgun hollowpoints.

  • seeker_two

    I find this new ammo interesting…esp. for something like a Bond Arms derringer. But I wonder why Winchester didn’t just load it with 4-5 discs and leave the shot out…..

  • http://www.kaliber.hu gvass

    “But I wonder why Winchester didn’t just load it with 4-5 discs and leave the shot out…..

    Too much recoil.

  • http://[email protected] Harry

    I think I’ve bought about 20 boxes of the “FEDERAL PERSONAL DEFENSE”
    with the 4 000 buck – It”s AWESOME!!!! from my 6.5 Judge. The Winchester PDX1 load is an interesting concept, you know…with the
    3 000 disks and 12 bbs. LET THE HEAT BE ON FOR WHICH IS BETTER!!

    Can’t help but wonder if other firearm manufacturers are developing
    their version of THE JUDGE.

  • Phil, Judge owner

    I have read a lot of negative reviews on the Judge and the ammo. I have yet to read a review from someone who has been shot with one. I keep a Judge loaded with PD rounds in my bedside drawer for night home defense. Coming out of a dead sleep to face one or more intruders is seconds in the dark. I know I’m going to get them with the Judge. My daughters rooms are across from ours, there is a lot to consider when selecting a firearm for night home defense. Also my non gun fan wife can point and shot easily due to the mild trigger pull. This ammo will give me a edge. We all need to remember why we have firearms, it is for that 2-3 second period that we decide we must shot to defend our selves.

    ” From my cold dead hands”

    Phil

  • Colin

    Hey Phil… I am also a Judge owner. I too am looking forward to this new ammo as we have a common use for our guns. In response to your comment on finding someone who was shot with one… Recently an Orlando man shot and killed an intruder at his front door with THE JUDGE. The shooter was actually in a wheelchair. When his doorbell rang a man who claimed he had car trouble forced himself in to “use his phone”. The wheelchair bound man reached for his judge and killed him. Haven’t been able to find out what load he used though. Bottom line… When your at point blank range this new load is sure to work. I’m sure you can google the story to get more details.

    “keep it loaded”

    Colin

  • Colin

    Anyone find the new winchester PDX1 in .410 or 45 LC yet? Where?!?!

  • Phil, Judge owner

    Hey Colin: I read that story somewhere about that guy, did not catch he was armed with a Judge. I just had a trigger job done on mine and had some Crimson laser grips applied, really is smooth and sweet to fire. I’m very happy with it, my wife does not like the heaviness and the kick, she prefers the S&W .38 snubby. I’m on the lookout for the new PDXI rounds too, please let me know if you find it online.

    Strength & Honor

    Phil

  • Deja vu

    I have been looking for the 410 ammo for my Judge, according to the web page it was said to be out last month but I cant find any where that sells it on the web or in local stores…

  • Phil, Judge owner

    I was told by my ammo man, that the PDX1 rounds had been ordered, he was not sure when they would arrive. I’ll stock up when it come in.

    Phil

  • Colin

    Still no luck for the PDX1 rounds for me. Been checking Wal Mart (since they are a big Winchester carrier) and Bass Pro mostly. Anyone out there finding them yet?

  • Raw Man

    I don’t think they are really out, I think they got delayed and Winchester has not updated there web page yet.

  • Deja vu

    wow still no sign of the new ammo. I recently finished searching the web for any sign of the PXD1 410 ammo, I found lots of news and comments but still no one selling it.

  • Sparky

    Just got the Judge with the 3″ barrel and 3″ cylinder. Before buying, the dealer was kind enough to let me fire his Judge with the 3″ barrel and 2.5″ cylinder with both the #4 shot with its wider pattern and the buck shot with three projectiles in a triangular pattern as well as the colt .45. What I like is the much wider pattern that makes hitting the target (bad guy) a bit easier. At about 10 feet, the pattern with the #4 shot was about 18″ in diameter. With the buck shot, the diameter from about 10′ was 6″ to 8″.

    My Judge with the three inch cylinder and 3″ shells had a bit more recoil, but also throws 11/16 oz of lead instead of 7/16 oz. I will target shoot with the 2.5″ shells, but keep it loaded with 3″ shells otherwise. Will also use it to pick off some pesky squirrels.

    The recoil with the 2.5″ shells was about the same as my .32 revolver with a 2.5″ barrel. The 3″ shells recoil a bit more than the .32 revolver. I think it will be an awsome home defense/car jack preventer weapon and easier to manuever than my 12 ga pump.

    Another thing that appeals to me about the Judge, is that if you get close on a head shot, surely the bad guy will not be able to see to shot.

  • The Skipper
  • Jack

    On Sunday’s episode of the national call-in radio show, Guntalk, Tom Gresham interviewed Taurus President Bob Morrison, who said Winchester developed the PDX1 410 specifically for the Judge once Taurus shared sales figures of the Judge with Winchester. It’s unusual for an ammunition company to develop a round for a particular gun from one manufacturer, but that’s how well the Judge is selling. Morrison also aluded to a “Raging Judge” coming out later this year, chambered for .410, .45 Colt and .454 Casull. It’ll be a bear stopper!

    In the third hour of the show, Tom interviewed Winchester’s Dick Hemmett. A very good show. Listen to the podcast at: http://guntalk.libsyn.com/

  • Jack

    Adding to my previous comment, Winchester’s Hemmett says that the PDX1 410 is just starting production this month and will be shipping soon.

  • http://www.predatorwild.com Heath

    Jack,

    If you search you’ll find Steve has a blog entry for the 454 version you’ve mentioned complete with a picture or two. I want to say it was called the Magnum or something.

  • Deja vu

    any one seen a place to buy this yet… if I remember correctly it should of been available to buy in February (the 410 any way)

  • Sparky

    Bass Pro Shop has the 45 caliber long Colt as of about March 20, 2010. Wal Mart has handgun .410 shells.

  • Cards

    Your Wall-Mart has the PDX-1 410? I wish mine did.

  • http://www.red-alerts.com Rob Taylor

    Looks like I’m going to Wal-mart!

  • Colin

    OK, WTF… The only two places I’ve been checking (weekly) have been Wal-Mart and Bass Pro and I haven’t seen either.

  • Colin

    Nothing at all the wal marts by my house?!?!

  • Deja vu

    I think he was talking about the federal because I still haven’t seen the 410 or the 12 any where… not even on the web

  • San Juan

    I run a Wal-Mart store and spoke with our ammunition buyer at our home office and no wal-mart in the usa has the 410 pdx1 shells yet. I can’t find anywhere else yet either.

  • http://www.greenvilledragnet.com Rob Taylor

    I went to the Academy sports in Greenville because they have the PDX pistol ammo (in 9mm I think) but no .410

  • WW

    saw it on cabelas, said it was in stock

  • Phil, Judge owner

    I just placed a order for 3 boxes, it’s finally making to us. Thanks WW for the tip. http://www.cabelas.com has the rounds, sold out right now. Mine will arrive in mid May via UPS. The price is really good, 11.99 a box. You have to call 1-800-237-4444 to place a order, you must place it over the phone. We have waited this long, a few more weeks will be easy. This will be easier then looking all over town, it will be dropped off to me.

    ” From my cold dead hands ”

    Phil

  • Zip

    Just returned from Bass Pro Shop in Atlanta and they still haven’t gotten any in. Thanks for letting us know that Cabelas is taking orders.

  • Zip

    Just ordered from Cabelas.

  • Deja vu

    how many are in a box and has any one actually recieved them yet?

  • Colin

    I placed an order with Cabela’s too. Should be here in mid May. I did get a few boxes of the PDX1 .45LC at Bass Pro. 20 in a box and I think they were right around $23/box.

  • jeff moore

    Aint ever thought much of them .410 pistols but i think im gonna have to get one now,just to keep in the truck,grocery shopping and such. I think that ammo is just wicked. I agree w that one ol boy that wants to see what it would do to ballistic gel.,

    • Jefferson

      Jeff, go see my comments and the one that mentions the HOG may answer any questions

  • http://www.greenvilledragnet.com Rob Taylor

    Was just at the Bass Pro near Charlotte NC and saw they only had three boxes left, but were going for $12 for ten. I just had Federal .410 buckshot shipped to me for $16 for boxes of 20 so in the end couldn’t justify buying these budget busting rounds.

  • Phil, Judge owner

    Saw where my Visa was charged by Cabelas, that means my PDX1 rounds are on the way. This has saved me a lot of running around. I called earlier this week, they said the rounds are back ordered, very popular. Best bet is just to place a order then wait. Keep it between the ditches.

    Phil

  • Colin

    Yep, Cabellas just sent mine too!!

  • Jim Judge Owner

    Got mine from cabellas Today!! Fired a couple at 12 ft. Wow! great pattern. Would not want to be on the receiving end of that load!!

  • Phil, Judge owner

    Just got home form work to find my box, glad to have them finally. Good to know the pattern is great, I’ll be loading my Judge shortly. These rounds will definitely ruin someones day.
    The Judge has really taken off in popularity, glad to own one. These rounds are perfect for it.

  • Colin

    Just got mine from Cabela’s too. All loaded up!!! Got the first three rounds of PDX1 .410′s followed by two rounds of PDX1 45 LC. Thanks Winchester!!! How are you guys loading yours?

  • Deja vu

    I bought 2 boxes from my local gun dealer… which was all they had.

  • http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com Robert Farago

    Given that the discs are designed for the rifling in the Judge’s barrel, what would the ammo do in a Mossberg HS 410?

  • JimB

    The industry needs to develop better firarms that are more accurate. A shotgun pistol is great for defense if you are not in an area with other people however the current rounds on the market leave much to be desired and will leave wounded personnel other than the criminal if used in a crowded area. A person that cannot shot a needs a shotgun pistol should not have one for use in a public are and rely on a real gun in a back up holster so the have less chance of shooting a half dozen innocent people with the first shot. Regardless of what you carry take realist pistol combat training classes you can find them many sponsored be local police and you should practice until you sick and tired of it. The one mistake most people make is they do not practice drawing thier weapon. You can do it with you EMPTY weapon and have a ballistic pad on the wall to point at. The PDX1 410. looks like a good close quartes round for people alone or in a area away from people to use however I dont see a 12 gauge slug a a home defense round as it will pass through two car doors with out stopping generally. In your home number 4 buckshot works greak in a 12 guage 3″ round you have 41, 24. cal pellets and in the 2.75 round you have 27 of the pellets thats enogh to take the biggest badest drug crazed criminal down and the ballists on #4 buckshot for 12 guage shotguns out perform the #00 buck in ballist gel for close range like involved in houses.

  • http://www.greenvilledragnet.com Rob Taylor

    Jim – I’ve seen 20ga slugs hit a deer and not go through. I also worry about over penetration but you have to balance that with effectiveness. I doubt a .410 round in any loading causes significantly more danger to unintended targets than a 9mm, .38 Auto, .40, or my .45 LC coming out of a carbine.

  • Courtland Cottrell

    I have dozens of firearms, including numerous handguns. I am a new owner of a 3″ stainless steel JUDGE. I have taken it to an indoor range and an outdoor mountain site twice in the past 2 weeks and have the following opinions:

    1- The 3″ JUDGE looks strange, but functions very well. Its heaviness actually aids in limiting recoil and muzzle-lift.

    2- I have no need for the .45 Long Colt option, since I already have that caliber covered, however, the act of loading one of these rounds along-side several shot shells really adds to the versatility of this weapon.

    3- Don’t believe any rumors you may have heard about .410 shells lacking the ability to penetrate. Two days ago, I loaded up 5 shells of 2-1/2″ 000 Buck Shot and easily blew holes in a new piece of 1/2″ plywood at 75 feet and 110 feet respectively.

    4- The real fun started when I loaded the new 2-1/2″ Winchester self-defense rounds, that contain 3 disks and 12 BBs. WOW is all I can say !!! Not only did they blow three well-grouped large holes with gaping exit wounds, but sprayed BBs in a manner making it hard to totally miss your target. I have pictures to show the extensive damage rendered, which I can’t imagine any human surviving, since the three holes had a grouping of less than 4″ at 100 feet. At 50 feet, the grouping was less than 3″. The BBs covered a diameter of about 24″ – 36″ at this range.

    5- Self defense generally occurs at 10 -15 feet, and once again, the Winchester self-defense rounds were impressive. The 3 hole grouping was less than 2″ and the BBs sprayed a diameter of about 16″. The surprise continued when I found that the BBs were also penetrating the 1/2″ plywood at ranges of up to 30 feet.

    6- Now that I have witnessed the destructive force of this weapon, I must say that I hope Winchester (or a competitor) make a similar round in 3″ magnum, since my JUDGE is already capable of handling it.

    7- One thing really was a disappointment to me as I test-fired the JUDGE, but actually has nothing to do with the handgun itself. I purchased several boxes of #4, #6, #7, and #9 shot shells, and found them to be totally inadequate. The #4 shot is the absolute smallest shot that I can recommend for use, and I would much rather use BBs instead. This size of shot is so small that you really need the huge capacity of a 12 guage or 10 guage shell to see results.

    8- In my opinion, the ammunition suppliers would do well to start offering several options of 3″ magnum shot shells for the .410 handguns. That extra 1/2″ of shell can pack a lot of extra energy, especially if extra powder and long brass is part of the recipe. If you are considering the purchase of a JUDGE, I think the 3″ magnum offers the potential for new and impressive ammunition in the near future.

    I have 2 gun safes full of firearms, but the most fun and usefulness I have seen in a handgun goes to this new 3″ JUDGE. I had to wait a few months on a waiting list in order to get one, but I can’t explain how much fun it is to have bird shot, 00 Buck Shot, self-defense disks, and .45 slugs all loaded in the same weapon at the same time. Well done Taurus.

    • Terry Gilliam

      I agree with all of your points but one. And me dissagreeing dont make you wrong but compared to a single 9 mm plus p of say 124 grain that gives considerably more weight and velocity per projectile than the 410 000 buck would go through much more than .5 inches of plywood at those distances. I think it would go through at least four of those peices of plywood. But that may be comparing apples to oranges. I agree with you enough that i have a raging judge i use the pdx1 and federal in 3 of the chambers with 45 long colt dpx plus p in the other 3. I can live with 3 or 4 000 buck at 8 inches of penetration if some are right and thats all they have versus the 9 mm going 12 inches and not raising my hit percentage and making one hole. Aiso at 15 feet or closer a pdx1 or a federal 4 pellet 000 buck are probably as potent as you could get. Out of my gun they act like one very big 280 grain bullet.

  • Phil, Judge owner

    Thanks Courtland for such a detailed report. My Judge is still loaded with PDX1 rounds at my bedside. I’m amazed at how it’s popularity has taken off. Some hardcores just don’t like it. Well, that’s OK, this is America. I’m glad to have one loaded with great ammo. Hopefully I will never have shoot anyone with it, but in the mindset of self preservation I’m ready.

    Strength & Honor.

    Phil.

  • rjp

    I recently purchased the Judge Personal Defender with a 2.5 inch barrel and tried the Winchester PDX1 .410 load, the Federal Personal Defense load, and Winchester PDX1 .45 Colt load in it. At 7 yards, the Winchester discs had about a 2 inch spread dead center. The BB’s had a random spread covering at least 18 inches. At 10 yards, I used the Federal load, which contains 4 000 Buck pellets. These landed in a 3-4 inch pattern at point of aim. I then shot several 225 grain PDX1 .45 Colt rounds at ranges from 10 to 20 yards. They were amazingly accurate and again landed right at point of aim. I was very pleased with all of the ammo in my Judge. Recoil was about like shooting a .357 with the .410 loads and about like a .45 ACP with the Colt loads. I have my Judge loaded with one .410 PDX1, 2 Federal 000, and two .45 Colt. That is 12 BB’s, 3 discs, 8 000 buck, and 2 225 JHP in 5 trigger pulls. I’m not sure how anyone would not feel well protected with that.

  • DriftnBob

    I would love to own a Judge. I ran acroos this PDX1 .410 ammo yesterday and picked up a couple boxes knowing that I will eventually buy one. I just don’t know what is a good price for one. Seems like they are really marked up. Can someone suggest a fair price I could offer a dealer for one?

  • Phil, Judge owner

    Paid 5 for mine, you will get what you pay for.

  • HarleyBob

    I just bought a News 3″ S/S Judge for $515.00 + tax
    @ a local gun shop! Got a box of 10 PDX1 for 12.95 + tax and a box of 20 . 45 Colt 225 Gr. HP longs for 22.95 + tax

  • Don R

    Had my Judge going on 3 years. Used it initally for varmints using No. 4 although No. 6 were very effective producing food to eat. For car I use No. 4′s so that I can get a lot of pellets out there. Plus one can shoot through the car or truck without striking the door. Hoping for more face and hand injuries to slow down the opponent so that I can fire the last shot if neccessary. I like the weapon since it adds a to the safety of the innocent that may be around. My .40 Sig is very effective if I want a cowboy shootout, however, the Judge provides personal protection. The new PP rounds appear to have the ability to neutralize anyone that comes into my bedroom at a range of 10-15 feet. Measure the distance from your door to where you sleep and pick the side to sleep on in order to protect ones mate. The placement of the bed so that the shot occurs away from sleeping family members. The nice thing about the Judge is that I don’t have to worry that much about wall penetration through the house. Now if I fire the .40 or .45LC, I have to worry about other bedrooms and outside of the house for bullet penetration. Seems to me that the Judge is an excellent choice. Excellent snake weapon if you live where I live.

  • GONESHOOTING

    I have the public defender and have shot the winchester and federal hands out of it. Very happy with both. As for the 3 disc, they have a tight group and very clean holes. Never have had any problems out of aprox 500 rounds of 45 colt and shotshells.

  • Doc Black

    The gauge number is the determined by the weight, in fractions of a pound, of a solid sphere of lead with a diameter equal to the inside diameter of the barrel. So a 10 gauge shotgun nominally should have an inside diameter equal to that of a sphere made from one-tenth of a pound of lead.

    • mike mend

      With all due respect, the 410 is a 410 BORE not a 410 gauge.

  • rev.ldm

    I tried my judge with PDX1 and 2.5 00 buck this weekend. I was impressed with the pattern and power of both rounds. I am not sure which is best but I saved 5 rounds of the PDX1 to keep loaded in the gun. I have to believe that this is one awsome home defense firearm. And it is a lot of fun to shoot.

    • Jefferson

      e my comments on my OWN experience with the PDX, that may answer any of your questions

  • v.w.

    hey, i just bought a judge, loaded it with 2- 2.5 410,3- 45 225gr. anyone want to break in to my house?

  • Ernie Martin

    In about 30 days you WILL be able to buy the Winchester PDX-1 in a

    > 3 < inch shell! it is in production right now and will be introduced at a gun show next month and after that we will be able to buy it. It will have 1 more
    for a total of 4 discs in it and more bb's

    carry all the time

  • Chief

    This is perfect ammo for California. Toothless!!!! Just like the liberal self defense stripping idiots in Sacramento.

  • JEFFERSON

    I have tried any and ALL 410 shells (birdshot, buck and slugs AND 45 ammo) This new PDX1 Defender 3″ is by far, in MY opinion, the best self fefense ammo on the market for personal defense, close range pisto-style weapons. It does have one major drawback. If you are not accustomed to high recoil ammo using a 410 revolver, GET READY. The recoil is gretarer than any of tyhe other loads i have fired. I tested my PDX1 3″ defender shell on a metal %5 gal drium at 15 ft (max, in most cases, SELF DEFENSE, range) and I could place 2 thumbs side-by-side in the entrance hole of the discs. The BB sized birdshot covered the ENTIRE width of the drum and went through one side o the same slug entrance point. I am VERY, very pleased and upbeat about this ammo. I then reloaded a 3″ buckshot shell with the ammo from a DEFERNDER shell, alternating disc, bb, disc bb, instead of disc, disc disc disc BBs. The result was even, if possible, MORE devastating. Disc was 1st, then BBs. Each disc deflected the BBs to such a degree, that IF this had been a crack-head, HUMAN attacker, he would NEVER rise, again, as there would not be ANYTHING i his torso cavity not SEVERELY impacted by this round. The BBs deflecting was the major cause of this. The factory Defender does quite the reqired jjob. I was jjust experimenting and was amazed at the even MUCH greater damage donee by my reloaded shell. Perhaps, Winchester might look into trying this load on the market????

  • Buddy

    I got my Judge about 2 hours ago but was already familar with it due to it belonging to my son.

    He had two versions (he said mine was a 4″ barrel so he kept the 2″) soI have the long version.

    Actually, being an old man who owned my first gun at the age of 8 yrs, I am an avid collector and love to shoot.

    My son went to the range to try these weapons and was very positive about the new PDx1 ammo, saying that anybody on the receiving end of them has just had a very bad day.

    Thankfully, my son provided me with the new ammo and I look forward to trying it out.

  • rbbud

    Hello,

    Here is a link to my .410 PDX gel test:

    http://forums.theboxotruth.com/showthread.php?3819-Taurus-Judge-.410-PDX-1&p=35782#post35782

    The block was 6″X6″X15.5″ I did attempt to calibrate the homade gel. I used a .17 cal. pellet 650 with a max penetration of 1.5″

    I know, not the standard NATO cal, but I’ve seen several different cal’s on the web and it was the best I could get in my garage.

  • Bo

    Any documented data on lethality of this load on “bad guys.?” Just curious. I know you can find compiled data like “one-shot stops” for 9mm, .40S&W, .45ACP, etc., but just how good is this personal defense load. It’s still in my eyes a .410 shotshell. Nothing I would want to engage varmint with, and bad guys on two-feet who can do me harm is another stretch. Any ideas??

    • Phil

      Hey Bo,

      I have not seen any data like the kind you speak of. I have a Judge loaded with PDX1 rounds in my bedside table, I will use it only for home defense at night, it’s perfect for that. Coming out of a dead sleep at 0300 will have me impaired. With the Judge, I know I’m going to get my target, or targets. With the spread, I’m going to nail my target, also don’t have to worry about the round getting to my neighbors house. I carry a .38 during the day. These rounds are perfect for night home defense. Since I got my Judge, S&W has come out with a really nice revolver, The Governor. Good luck.

      Phil

    • Jefferson

      Hi, Bo!!! Refer to my comment posted 12/23/2011 and see if that helps you understand what the PDX 3″ out of a 3″ barrel will do.

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  • Terry

    hi

    • Jefferson

      Hi, Terry,. Thanks forthe response. Hell with all the pig lovers. It was going to market to be processed, anyway. Killing a pig is killing a pig. I PROMISE, it did not suffer. It DROPPED like a dead pig. I, myself, hope the idiots shiow up on my doorstep. LOL Want to see some pig-lovers soil themselves???? (: (; I promise to post pics, if it happens, brown stains and all.
      I also keep, WITH one of my SEVERAL judges, an HK USP large frame 45acp with legal HE rounds. I am not partcullarly worried about ANYBODY that does no belong in my home Wild dogs need to eat, also, so I think that may take care of the legal issues that would NORMALLY arise. LOL

      Take care, Buddy!!! JAL

  • Terry

    I think i am a very good shot. Today i shot a 10 shot 1.4 inch group at a measured 25 yards offhand. I train quite a bit for fun and home invasion possibilities. everybody thinks they will calmly put a couple shots on target rest there finger back on the side of the gun and make sure threat is not a threat anymore. But people dont know how terrified they would be if that door is really kicked in and someone comes down the hall crazy on drugs with a gun. I think a 6.5″ raging judge with 3 corbon dpx 225 grain 45 colts and three 3″ pdx1s would make me feel about as good as possible because even though i think i am the best shot i know i may not be able to hit a 5 gallon jug from 25 feet when i am terrified and yes i would be terrified. I test ammo every way i can think of all the time and did have some concerns about penetration of the pdxis but with my 6.5″ barrel i think that probem is outweighed by more chance of getting some hits and those 45 colts may just go on target too But even if i shake like a leaf the intruder wont get out unscaved with that many chunks of lead. As far as calataral damage i dont plan on taking it to the supermarket.

  • Jefferson

    I have shot both 3″ 5-ball ooo buckshot and the 3″ PDX at a 14″ long watermelon from a distance of 14 ft. The buckshot did good…………………3&1/2 pattern straight through. Use your imagination about what it would have done to a human intruder. The watermelon EXPLODED into nothing when I used the PDX. Three weeks ago, a local man, confined to a wheelchair, was attacked in his home. He had a hide-out spot on his wheelchair and got to it, before he accrued TOO much personal damage. One (1) shot, later, the intruder still existed but the asshole was DEAD. ONE SHOT, ONE KILL. The benefit of carrying all PDX is that it won’t go throughh the assailant and injure another person. The Judge was basically designed for up close “personal defense”. With a 45 lc, if you are upset or under duress, one shot may not be enough for a crack-head. The PDX, in my opinion, is one of the best shells on the market for those interested in rapid take-down of an attacker. I used one of the PDX on a 350 lb hog, going to the processing plant. I shot from 18 feet, a good “maximum” self-defense distance, and there was not a single organ in the hog that was not damaged by either a disc or a bb. I was quite pleased. I hope this helps those of you with concerns about the lethality of the PDX round.

    • Terry Gilliam

      WOW That thing with the pig is a real eye opener. From what i know This round is a very good home def. round and i keep them in 3 of 6 chambers in my raging judge. And real tests[ like the pig test] are good to know. I live in the country with only my wife and have the other 3 chambers loaded with 225 grain corbon dpx 45 colt at 1200 fps because i would hate to get caught with a wall between me and an intruder and have 9 mms coming through and be at a huge disadvantage. But i do get the reasoning some have to over penetration, but in my house i may just need to overpenetrate. That is where we all think a little different and whats right for me isnt right for everybody else. Hope the pig lovers stay of your case. LOL

      • Jefferson

        Hi, Terry,. Thanks forthe response. Hell with all the pig lovers. It was going to market to be processed, anyway. Killing a pig is killing a pig. I PROMISE, it did not suffer. It DROPPED like a dead pig. I, myself, hope the idiots shiow up on my doorstep. LOL Want to see some pig-lovers soil themselves???? (: (; I promise to post pics, if it happens, brown stains and all.
        I also keep, WITH one of my SEVERAL judges, an HK USP large frame 45acp with legal HE rounds. I am not partcullarly worried about ANYBODY that does no belong in my home Wild dogs need to eat, also, so I think that may take care of the legal issues that would NORMALLY arise. LOL

  • Jefferson

    I keep seeing inputs about tests done on 1/2″ pieces, using 2&1/2 or 3″ PDX shells. Penetration seems to be the issue in these tests. I have not heard/read TO many reports about people being attacked in their homes, in the middle of the night, by sheets of plywood. Keep in mind, here, folks, FLESH will and “does” give way to each and “all” of the BBs and discs, in these shells. See my “HOG” report, above. I will ask tihs from anyone that has done these “tests”……..PLEASE let us “all” know, as soon as lumber begins murdering sleepers in their beds. This is something in which I believe that the “world’ would show great interest, as we have enouigh CRACK-HEADs and violent attackers, already, and sheets of plywood coming through windows into bedrooms “may” move us into another area of Mulder and Scully investigations. Anything is possible, these days.

  • E.B.

    When will this Ammo be available in 20 gauge.

  • Kevin

    I have a H&R Model 88 3″ shotgun. Can I use the PDX1 shells.

    • Jefferson

      If it can ‘chamber’ the PDX, my experience AND Winchester’s own words say it can SHOOT the PDX. It is better than buck-shot for up-close work, as the discs do not goe straight through, but FRIZBEE off in all directions

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  • Jefferson

    I have and love FOUR Judges w/3″ chambers. I have learned by trial and error that you SHOULD NOT use a 2 & 1/2 PDX in a 3″ chamber. The chamber pressure is too great in a 3″ chamber and WILL affect the timing on a 410/45lc revolver w/a 3″ chamber. I had to send TWO of my Judges to Taurus Int to be repaired (free of charge). I am now looking for a Judge with a 2 & 1’2″ chamber, as I have a case of 2 & 1/2″ PDX rounds. I like the versatility of a Judge. If you want up close personal defense, this is, in my opinion, the best gun for the job, as a SHOTGUN has a long barrel that you must bring to bear and that CAN be taken from someone without the experience to KEEP it under THEIR own control. A SHOTGUN is just too long to be able to swing around in close quarters. See my post, above, about the HOG shooting. I, also, carry a 45 cal USP large frame for a back-up. I like carrying one of my Judges w/7 &1’2 shot in the woods during snaky seasons. That shell will disinigrate a snake at a range of 10 to 15 feet. As all of my Judges are equipped with Crimson-Trace grips, aiming at a snake is not a ‘needed’ option. “Place the red and shoot the head.” I carry a 22mag American Arms as a hideout, as I have several different holsters (shoulder–which can be worn inside a button-up shirt, an ankle holster and a clip holster, worn inside the pants or clipped to a short sleeve TEE shirt inside a long-sleeve, button-up. I experimented with my wife’s Judge (she is scared of the recoil she saw when I was shooting with my PDX). I used 5 ball buck on the 1st shot and a 3″ PDX on the 2nd shot. From 12 feet (self defense across a room[?]), I shot a 14″ by 8″ watermelon. The 5 ball buck did little damage, even though all rounds went straight through. (If it had been an attacker, with BONE and all in the torso, the results would have been much more severe. I have dropped a HUGE aggressive dog with the same round at 14′.) At the same distance from the watermelon that was used in my experiment, I used a 3″ PDX. The watermelon ‘ceased to exist’.

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  • blackthorn

    What, no 20 gauge?