SCAR-H seen in Afghanistan
This photo, which is purported to be real, shows a Ranger using the 7.62x51mm FN SCAR-H ( MK 17 Mod 0 ).
The photo is said to have been taken by Spc. Walter Reeves.
The semi-automatic civilian model is called the FN SCAR 17S and will be on sale early next year.
SCAR-H on display at Tactical Evolution Expo and Conference '09. Photo by Dominique
Thanks to jdun1911 and SaysUncle for the link.
Hat Tip: AR-15.com
it is well that our troops get a weapon more suited to the environment than the previous system.
Do you know if the 17S will be sold in canada ?
So we could import it in europe (You know the place where comes FN Herstal…)
Nooky, is the 16S sold in Canada?
Hey Candanian,
At least you can buy the Tavor.
I’d rather have the Tavor, personally.
You know, I just have to say, the picture looks an awful lot like a it would be a still from a movie, the grain quality, the light quality, and then, I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but I’ve never seen US army rangers wearing multi-cam and he is definately wearing the crye field pants. My instincts point me towards calling shenanigans
Only one unit of Rangers use the SCAR. Its not getting super reviews by th Spec Ops community. Im not surprised by a few solders trying this pcie of junk out. Any 308 win wepon is more suited to aftghnistain but a more relighable M-14 is far more used than this plastic junk.
Lance,
What’s the source for SOCOM complaints? I’d be interested in reading them.
The camo design immediately had me calling “waitasec,” not to mention this being a supposed action shot.
Those are NOT ACUs that Rangers whear nore are they muticam that spec ops use either I think FN stages some pics shots.
Lance,
Again, would you provide the source for SOCOM reports that you described on 11/28? Hopefully you’re not just referring to a thread begun in May by one “fluwoebers” at arfcom, before the SCAR was deployed in numbers.
Yes several posts Lester. I know you love you FN so much. But the facts are from this Blog and from army sources that Alost of units didnt rally like the weapon and the Picture here is doctered the man isnt even in a Army uniform.
If you love the gun so much you place your hand on the rail after dumping a few mags out of one and burn your hand pal.
Lets keep it friendly.
Lance,
whoever said I “love FN so much?” I own one FN product, a pistol with nothing to do with the subject at hand. Do I love it? Nope. I like it but I could never be truly attached to a plastic firearm. Given the right offer and my personal FNP would be gone tomorrow.
Now getting back to the subject at hand. Would you PLEASE provide the reports to substantiate your claim that SOCOM is less than happy with the SCAR? I’m not trying to be argumentative, I’m interested in hearing what has been said about the Army’s newest rifles. If there are reports from reliable sources, not friend of a cousin of a Ranger stuff, I think everyone who frequents this blog would be in your debt by your simple act of posting sources. That’s all I’m asking.
I should also add that I’ve handled a civilian SCAR-16S and didn’t like it much at all. I personally think the stock is somewhat awkward and doesn’t look to be particularly strong. After just a few minutes handling the weapon, a SCAR isn’t for me. So like all other FN products beyond the FNP I already own, I have no desire to add any of that firm’s products to my personal collection. Well, maybe an M2 but I doubt it’ll happen.
But that has nothing to do with my dual concerns for the American fighting man’s safety and effectiveness in battle. I want him to have a reliable rifle that will kill our enemies with aplomb. I’m also desirous of all verifiable information on the SCAR as a taxpayer. If the weapon doesn’t deliver, I want my Congressman and Senators to raise holy hell over its acquisition. If the SCAR works as advertised, I want every infantryman in the Army and Marine Corps to carry it.
The SCAR is for SOCOM only and WILL NOT be standerd issue for Marines and so on. The reports where on the Army times and several blogs a few months ago on this site. The only good things printed about the FN is from FN itself.
I confess I don’t care for plastic in guns, but I am an old fogy. I would like to see test results of how the plastic lower receiver held up during tests. The SCAR looks awkward to me. The design appears to be very deep from top to bottom. The plastic stock looks like it would shatter with one horizontal butt stroke. I am not used to separate pistol grips. I grew up on M-1 Garands and M-14s.
I have never liked the M-16/M-4 series. I don’t like dumping dirt and heat into the bolt and chamber area. I don’t like a steel bolt carrier sliding back and forth in an aluminum receiver. I don’t like the lack of primary extraction in the gun. I also feel the standard M198 .223 load is too light. The M282 (?) 77 gr. load looks a lot better.
I do recognize that the M-16 is here to stay, at least for a while, so the ability to use the ammo and mags is a big plus. I recently got a SIG 556 Classic for myself. Piston driven, AK-47 type action, primary extraction, nice things like that, and uses the M-16 mags and ammo.
Tom made a good point.
I took this photo, it was not staged and the scar sucks
This photo wa taken by a combat camera photographer in afghanistan by Spc, Matthew Mitten.
Army Rangers are not in Afghanistan at the moment.
Army Rangers are not presently wearing Crye Multicam.
This is not a picture of a Ranger unit.
Please check your sources
I don’t know much about the subject matter, but to me the pic looks like a clip from a video game.
We have sons in the CIA and the Marines (3/3), both headed to Afghanistan in ~May (our Marine just returned from Iraq in ~Oct). We’re proud of them. Iin the Afghan venue both said they’d opt for M14 variants (“SOCOM”?) over the 5.56. The older boy said the .308 is ‘short for the distances’ and that ‘the HS-LD folks use a .300 WinMag where they’d normally employ .308.’ Something about the velocity expanding the round at distance. He may be prejudiced: it’s what he shoots wild boar with.
Thank you for a great site.
There are no US Army units wearing Crye…PERIOD. This photo shows two SCARS deployed in an obvious kinetic op. yet niether one of the “soldiers” appears to even be wearing plate armor???
I am waving the B.S. flag on this one guys.
I have to call “BS” on this being an action shot. Work with some Spec-Ops guys and this is not a uniform that Rangers wear.
I’d like to hear the stories of the SCAR in combat too. No sense in replacing a ‘reliability liability’ with another one. I personally would like to see improvement of or downsize of the M14 action to take something like the 6.8 or 6.5G. A round that weighs less but still brings on a lot more heat than the 5.56. And FWIW, I have a carbine set up like an M4. And while mk262 mod 0/1 is better than the M193/M885 rounds, it certainly isn’t a great alternative with the short barrel.
Also, in a scaled down version of the M1/1A (M14) action you could load a scaled down long range round better than the AR15 platform. That’s been my suggestion for over 25 years since I’ve known about rumblings of things to replaced the AR15/M16 platform.
rangers do wear multicams
No every pic ive seen is ACU and or new imporved desert ACUs which arnt multicam.
This video shows rangers wearing multi-cam:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47809Gx1GKw
Yeah but no deployed Rangers have been given Multicam. Some have been given improved ACUs which have more earthy colors.
Read the story
http://www.army.mil/-images/2009/10/30/54559/
Lance, I had not seen that new camo. Thanks for the link.
Still, while I do not know if this photo is “real” or not, nobody can say with 100% certainty that no rangers in Afghanistan are using multicam (except maybe a ranger currently in Afghanistan)
Heres some more links one with a awsome M-14 pic.
http://www.army.mil/-news/2009/10/30/29626-army-testing-acu-camouflage-patterns-in-afghanistan/
the other is a new Civilan uniform for over seas.
http://www.army.mil/-news/2008/07/03/10586-amc-civilians-to-test-new-uniforms-in-combat-zones/
again, rangers do wear multicam while deployed and improved acus are garbage all they did was add some coyote tan but left the blue gray crap in
rangers are in afghanistan, they do wear multicam while deployed just because you haven’t seen pictures of them or it hasn’t been broadcast to the rest of the world doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.
Lance, urrgggh, what civilian uniform is aweful
So happy to work for the Coast Guard I just wear Black BDUs…lol
Jesus, is this thread from Retardistan?
FIRST… YES, the M1 Garand and M14 are nice rifles with reliability and plenty of power but they were replaced 40 freakin years ago… GET OVER IT!!! The Garand will NEVER come back into service! Go have a good cry and compete in a DCM match will ya?
SECOND… the CRYE Multicam IS used by USASOC and SOF units. What, you think a unit with half a brain and twice that in budget would wear I-SEE-YOU’s in an area where they don’t blend in? Oh yea, the Crye Combat uniform is 50x that of the REMF-friendly ACU’s! To “82nd AIR”… really? Ever been out past Latham DZ to that “off limits” area and seen troops wearing Crye? Funny, it’s been issued to SOF for several years now… I call BS on YOUR assessment and apparently uninformed opinion. The Crye uniform has been in use for several years now in theater… snopes it, whatever.
THIRD… The SCAR-L/H was designed for and with the assistance of USASOC… naturally you will see SOF units using them… the only surprising thing about this article is that it’s taken this long for a pic of the Mk17 to get out… this rifle has been fielded way before this… surprised it took this long.
Seriously people, some of you need to either do some fact checking or know what the hell your talking about before spouting idiocies. SOCOM/SOF ain’t big army, we get what we need!
thank you eric x for calling out the BS. There are three patterns being evaluated in afghanistan, UCP-D (ACU UCP with coyote brown), Multicam (which has been worn by SOCOM), and Bulldog Mirage (which is the best in my opinion). Source: army times. I still don’t know how Multicam lost to UCP in the competition…
Yes, the SCAR has been in use by the 75th Ranger Regiment, though im not sure for how long (like they’ll tell us anyways) and special forces. It is a new weapons system with new features, though it is day and night better than a M4 in battlefield conditions. I personally prefer Remington’s ACR
Seriously, people need to do some research before they spout on about BS. I obtain my information from the army times, which is more credible in my opinion than any airsofter’s. I seriously get irritated when people post things that they know nothing about.
As for the SCAR-H, it is the first military-used “battle rifle” design to come out since the M14, FAL, and G3. I wish i could fire one. They may look ugly but the SCAR 16S (civilian semi-automatic) is a fine weapon that takes getting used to.
“Army Rangers are not in Afghanistan at the moment.”
please think before you post!!!
Theres nothing new about it its a regerataed FNC with plastic outside and a cheap plastic butt stock, and rails all over it. Ive read some not too happy reviews both civilan and military about its durability.
Actually Lance, the gas systems between the FNC and FN SCAR are similar but that’s about it.
The SCAR uses a monolithic upper receiver with a polymer lower and the bolt is drastically different. The buttstock is polymer as well and is one of the better features (folds to side, extends LOP and has adjustable cheek riser).
The problems USASOC was having with them was due mostly to bad polymer and a few other manufacturers errors.
Once the bugs are worked out, it’ll be a fine rifle.
Personally, I’d prefer the Bushmaster/Remington/Magpul ACR (aka Masada)… it’s a much better thought out design based on ergonomics and actual operator input.
Aside from the easy caliber conversion (or barrel type change) the buttstock is better designed (same features as the SCAR but more streamlined and even has battery storage for optics/lights/LAM’s), grip has storage as well (uses MIAD cores which hold 3 types of batteries, spare bolt/pins or boresnake)…
Better design and features.
Anyway, the SCAR is a step up from the M14 in a tactical sense (reloading time, ergonomics, adaptability, shootability) and not too far off in accuracy and if Haji is looking to take you with him on his way to his 72 virgins, having that 7.62 firepower is a godsend.
Oh yea, Magpul has a 7.62 version of the ACR/Masada called the Massoud… google it.
“Theres nothing new about it its a regerataed FNC with plastic outside and a cheap plastic butt stock, and rails all over it. Ive read some not too happy reviews both civilan and military about its durability.”
So what? the FNC is a fine rifle. The lower receiver and buttstock is polymer, which is different than plastic (just like bakelite is different than plastic…they are all in the polymer family). My opinion is to try a SCAR for yourself before counting on the opinion of other bloggers, COD4 ninjas, and airsofters. Sorry to say, but polymer is just as durable as aluminum or alloys (look in the case of the PMAGs).
The only complaints I’ve heard are the rear sights…thats it! the FN SCAR was also proven to be second in reliability to the outstanding XM8 (in comparison to the M4, HK 416, & XM8)
In an essence, all weapons are regurgitated AK47′s or M1 garands with their gas piston operations, rotating bolt design, and trigger mechanisms. John Browning completely revolutionized firearms designs as we know today.
note: will the chairsofters, gamers, and SF wannabes (who have a friend who’s sister’s father’s friend’s cousin was a Navy SEAL or Delta Operator) think before they post? It will save you the embarrassment.
I’m not an operator nor do I pretend to be. I’m a guy that puts a lot of lead down range for fun. I’ve owned two Colts, a Bushmaster, and a Wilson flat top. The Colts were Colts, the Bushmaster was fine and the Wilson was awesome. I now own a Scar 16S and aside from the cool factor it is an awesome weapon as well. The trigger needs immediate attention but it is amazingly accurate for a battle rifle. It’s refreshing to shoot without the AR style spring rattling the stock against your ear.
I suspect that if the Scar was priced around $1,500 the criticism would be minimal. I don’t intend to drive an Abrahams over it so the polymer lower will work for me.
SM no one complained about it as a cilvilan shooter. Its military maodle is whats debateable.
Lance, I understand the issue. I just think that any change in the cultural norm brings about speculation and unsupported criticism. The use of polymer in replacing metal firearm components has been undeniably effective over the years. If the civilian market was flooded with the SCAR 16S, firearms enthusiasts would be able to touch and feel one rather than evaluating it by looking at photographs. I don’t think anyone would suggest that the polymer stock on the M-4 or the frame on the ubiquitous Glock, is any more sturdy than the components on the SCAR. Hopefully the SCAR will never need a forward bolt assist. I guess time will tell.
SM, my point exactly! the supposed criticisms of the SCAR are inevitable when any new rifle is introduced. God only knows the M16/M4 have had their initiation of growing pains. All weapons have them. Just try something new and if it works, move on. People need to stop being so conservative with the firearms approach and if something works to better suit the military, then let it happen. I honestly could care less what rifle the military seeks to replace the M4/M16; even if it is another AR15 gas piston upper or a direct impingement design that is enchanted by elves to be cleaner and more reliable under battlefield conditions. It makes no difference to me as long as our boys on the ground have a reliable, dependable, effective rifle.
A piston upper is what the Army wants.
As an x Army Ranger of 3 and a half yrs 2/75th .. I will tell you that the scar-h was not my favorite to use. No I never used it in combat, only on the range for testing. There were many reasons, my biggest and it sounds silly but after firing it for a ferw hrs on the range. My cheek started to hurt like hell from that little NUB on the cheek piece. the stock just sits into your shoulder all outta place. Also it just feels so plastic I’m worried the sights get broke off, we are hard on stuff. I bang my shit around nonstop, I use my butt stock for support & other things! That little hinge is gonna snap off!!! Just not a winner in my book!! Many other reasons as well… I suggest you go fire one for a few hrs and see for yourself. On the other hand we also fired the Magpul Masada aka ACR.. Same kinda deal there as well ( plastic) BUT. This just felt better in my hands & it just melted into my shoulder, the trans for swapping was better & faster. So people are aware, SCOM has been trying out new types of BDU different types patterns. This is fact and this has always been the way it is. Always adapting to the type of combat. So the pic could be real. You can’t say that the use of multi cam is a reason to discount it. I never used it, but we did use many others in training.
Man I love the passion on this site!! Guys … we used to learn how to disassemble M16/14s in the dark because… the damn things fail!! Pistons might be better. I have to admit I can’t take my FN apart in the dark, but I’m not crawling through jerkistan either. I don’t care who wears what ACU’s in what pattern. The 300 win mag and now the 338 Lapua are rounding out the long shooters bag of tricks. I wish I had todays choices 20 years ago, but in fine government fashion I always fear getting issued a piece of crap. If the men in the field don’t like issued gear they’ll pry the AK’s away and shoot the “insurgents” with their own damn ammo!! At home I’ll stick with the Kimber thank you.
— I was left confused by this discussion…
I know there is a whole lot of love in America for the venerable Garand/M14 rifles, but to call the SCAR a ‘plastic’ piece of rubbish, and then not provide empirical data to support this contention seems harsh…
Wasn’t the Armalite a ‘plastic’ piece of rubbish according to many who first used it (and many who still do)? Yet likewise many swear by it.
…I don’t mean any disrespect to anyone that holds a negative view about the SCAR, but like others in this post I just want to know what collaborative evidence there is out there about it’s actual field performance.
Look at priveious posts millgeek
The M4 will never go away as the US military’s rifle of choice as long as retired military generals are working for manufactures like Colt Defense. It has nothing to do with performance or reliability. It’s politics and money.