Comments on: Are the French dumping the FAMAS? http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/26/are-the-french-dumping-the-famas/ Firearms not Politics Fri, 10 Feb 2012 22:19:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: gunner http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/26/are-the-french-dumping-the-famas/comment-page-1/#comment-85687 gunner Wed, 01 Feb 2012 02:28:23 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9607#comment-85687 @ mack, actually not all the mas36 rifles were destroyed or scrapped, i owned one here in the u.s. back in the 1970s and it was in good, serviceable condition, though 7.5mm french ammunition was hard to find here at the time. the mas36 was no object d' art, but it was a solid sensible rifle for the purpose ir was made for @ mack,
actually not all the mas36 rifles were destroyed or scrapped, i owned one here in the u.s. back in the 1970s and it was in good, serviceable condition, though 7.5mm french ammunition was hard to find here at the time. the mas36 was no object d’ art, but it was a solid sensible rifle for the purpose ir was made for

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]]> By: John http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/26/are-the-french-dumping-the-famas/comment-page-1/#comment-42245 John Wed, 08 Sep 2010 04:29:07 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9607#comment-42245 THey should have kept the MAS 49/56, upgraded it to 308 on a large scale,for NATO, said no to the mousegun, and cartridge, and kicked A-S where every they went. The MAS 49/56 is the finest battle rifle ever made. Simple,rugged,fool proof, and accurate. Twice the practical range of the AK47, and the 5.56. Always remember 30 cal holes, make invisible Souls. Every time. If they want to remachine the MAS 49/56, and reissue it, I am sure the boys on the battlefield would thank them. THey should have kept the MAS 49/56, upgraded it to 308 on a large scale,for NATO, said no to the mousegun, and cartridge, and kicked A-S where every they went.
The MAS 49/56 is the finest battle rifle ever made. Simple,rugged,fool proof, and accurate. Twice the practical range of the AK47, and the 5.56. Always remember 30 cal holes, make invisible Souls. Every time.
If they want to remachine the MAS 49/56, and reissue it, I am sure the boys on the battlefield would thank them.

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]]> By: JJ http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/26/are-the-french-dumping-the-famas/comment-page-1/#comment-40612 JJ Sun, 15 Aug 2010 21:00:54 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9607#comment-40612 The Famas is too old and showing its age. French military and government need to own up and admit that it's a rifle that is now past it's age of usefulness. However, given the current economic climate in Europe (shrinking budgets), French gov. is not likely to invest in any costly replacement program anytime soon. French infantry will have to make due with a sub-performing weapon (especially compared with newer models available) which is unreliable (ie, sands of Afghanistan) and largely ineffective. The Famas is too old and showing its age. French military and government need to own up and admit that it’s a rifle that is now past it’s age of usefulness. However, given the current economic climate in Europe (shrinking budgets), French gov. is not likely to invest in any costly replacement program anytime soon. French infantry will have to make due with a sub-performing weapon (especially compared with newer models available) which is unreliable (ie, sands of Afghanistan) and largely ineffective.

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]]> By: Gustavo http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/26/are-the-french-dumping-the-famas/comment-page-1/#comment-28456 Gustavo Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:15:18 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9607#comment-28456 I remember using the SLR (FN), M16A1 and F88 in Aussie army. My mag change times were about the same for all.All you do is practice your drills.And practice and practice and time comes down, it becomes instinct.I found it was more of the case of where or how I wore my mag pouches or rig I loved the F88. I remember using the SLR (FN), M16A1 and F88 in Aussie army.
My mag change times were about the same for all.All you do is practice your drills.And practice and practice and time comes down, it becomes instinct.I found it was more of the case of where or how I wore my mag pouches or rig
I loved the F88.

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]]> By: mr73 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/26/are-the-french-dumping-the-famas/comment-page-1/#comment-25148 mr73 Tue, 02 Feb 2010 01:13:19 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9607#comment-25148 Having been an agent for MMD and one of my best friend the technology transfer director,I have some insight. The SIG 5xx series were made because of the Swiss laws regarding export of defense goods. This series made by Manurhin was made for the export market. The French armed forces refused this well made rifle. We tried to have them rebadged as a semi auto for the NA market but BATF refused. The Beretta 92 was made by Manurhin which discovered during testing and after issuing, a slight problem with NATO 9mm rounds, the modifications to the slide were performed before Beretta did the same after some navy SEAL got injured. It was similar to a problem discovered by Manurhin when they made the SIG226 under license. An additional rib was added to the slide. The MR73 was used by the GIGN as a sniper pistol with success! I can personaly attest to 35 mm 5 shot outside diameter groups at 150 meters with hanloads. The MR38 Match will give 6 shot 25 mm groups at 25 meters with factory ammunition. The GIAT was sold off in parcels as the then gov decided to divest itself from the defence industry. At one point, the GIAT was one of the largest land based defence contractor in the world. Having been an agent for MMD and one of my best friend the technology transfer director,I have some insight. The SIG 5xx series were made because of the Swiss laws regarding export of defense goods. This series made by Manurhin was made for the export market. The French armed forces refused this well made rifle. We tried to have them rebadged as a semi auto for the NA market but BATF refused. The Beretta 92 was made by Manurhin which discovered during testing and after issuing, a slight problem with NATO 9mm rounds, the modifications to the slide were performed before Beretta did the same after some navy SEAL got injured. It was similar to a problem discovered by Manurhin when they made the SIG226 under license. An additional rib was added to the slide. The MR73 was used by the GIGN as a sniper pistol with success! I can personaly attest to 35 mm 5 shot outside diameter groups at 150 meters with hanloads. The MR38 Match will give 6 shot 25 mm groups at 25 meters with factory ammunition.

The GIAT was sold off in parcels as the then gov decided to divest itself from the defence industry. At one point, the GIAT was one of the largest land based defence contractor in the world.

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]]> By: Destroyer http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/26/are-the-french-dumping-the-famas/comment-page-1/#comment-24656 Destroyer Thu, 28 Jan 2010 01:54:56 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9607#comment-24656 Proof that bullpups are a nationalistic charade (meaning they look cool but are ineffective at their primary purpose). I wouldnt be surprised if France dumped the FAMAS. Don't agree? well consider the elite units of the French military that use anything but the famas. Proof that bullpups are a nationalistic charade (meaning they look cool but are ineffective at their primary purpose). I wouldnt be surprised if France dumped the FAMAS. Don’t agree? well consider the elite units of the French military that use anything but the famas.

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]]> By: snmp http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/26/are-the-french-dumping-the-famas/comment-page-1/#comment-23432 snmp Sat, 09 Jan 2010 00:17:03 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9607#comment-23432 All French SF have : * HK416 (G36KE for Commando Marine)=> Relacement of Colt M16Ax/M4Ax/CAR15 ...... & Sig 55X * HK417 For DMR => Replacement of SR25/AR10/HK G3 & FRF2 & FRG2 * SAKO TRG 42 300W (folding) for Mid and Long Range No replacement of FAMAS G1 but FELIN Upgrade, that many year that German dream to replace whit their expensive and crappy (not enough ruged for Regular Trooper) wepaon All French SF have :
* HK416 (G36KE for Commando Marine)=> Relacement of Colt M16Ax/M4Ax/CAR15 …… & Sig 55X
* HK417 For DMR => Replacement of SR25/AR10/HK G3 & FRF2 & FRG2
* SAKO TRG 42 300W (folding) for Mid and Long Range

No replacement of FAMAS G1 but FELIN Upgrade, that many year that German dream to replace whit their expensive and crappy (not enough ruged for Regular Trooper) wepaon

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/26/are-the-french-dumping-the-famas/comment-page-1/#comment-23367 Steve Wed, 06 Jan 2010 22:23:56 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9607#comment-23367 Aurelien, thanks for the update! Aurelien, thanks for the update!

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]]> By: Aurelien http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/26/are-the-french-dumping-the-famas/comment-page-1/#comment-23347 Aurelien Wed, 06 Jan 2010 10:32:37 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9607#comment-23347 Latest news say they are several competitors on the replacement of the FAMAS, whos more and more looking like its being phased out. HK416 and SCAR-L are being field tested. Sig516 is being looked into, Sig already having building deals with french manufacturers for the SP 2022. Seems like they are looking into the ACR too, but who doesn't ? Latest news say they are several competitors on the replacement of the FAMAS, whos more and more looking like its being phased out.

HK416 and SCAR-L are being field tested. Sig516 is being looked into, Sig already having building deals with french manufacturers for the SP 2022.

Seems like they are looking into the ACR too, but who doesn’t ?

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]]> By: snmp http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/26/are-the-french-dumping-the-famas/comment-page-1/#comment-23207 snmp Tue, 05 Jan 2010 00:15:02 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9607#comment-23207 Many G3 Rifle in service with French Army are from German army (50€ per Unit). the G3 is good rifle but not support longtime used like French army love. The Sig 55X are in phase out, with an replacement by G36KE (and hybrid version betewen G36E & G36KE) with B&T handguard. Commando Marine refuse the HK416 (the other French SF from Army & Air Force have HK416 ) in favor of the G36 system. Many G3 Rifle in service with French Army are from German army (50€ per Unit). the G3 is good rifle but not support longtime used like French army love.

The Sig 55X are in phase out, with an replacement by G36KE (and hybrid version betewen G36E & G36KE) with B&T handguard. Commando Marine refuse the HK416 (the other French SF from Army & Air Force have HK416 ) in favor of the G36 system.

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]]> By: Aurélien http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/26/are-the-french-dumping-the-famas/comment-page-1/#comment-23131 Aurélien Mon, 04 Jan 2010 07:43:05 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9607#comment-23131 "BTW : the Root of the G3 : STG45 => MAS => CEAM Modèle 1950 => CETME Model A & Model B (Germany bouth Licence and give the production to HK & Mauser-Rheinmetall" I was speaking about the G3A3 and G3A4s currently used by the french army. They were license-built by MAS in the 80s and 90s. BTW, the Navy has Sig 55X for their commandos. “BTW : the Root of the G3 : STG45 => MAS => CEAM Modèle 1950 => CETME Model A & Model B (Germany bouth Licence and give the production to HK & Mauser-Rheinmetall”

I was speaking about the G3A3 and G3A4s currently used by the french army. They were license-built by MAS in the 80s and 90s.

BTW, the Navy has Sig 55X for their commandos.

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/26/are-the-french-dumping-the-famas/comment-page-1/#comment-23121 Steve Mon, 04 Jan 2010 05:19:51 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9607#comment-23121 snmp, thanks for the overview. snmp, thanks for the overview.

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]]> By: snmp http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/26/are-the-french-dumping-the-famas/comment-page-1/#comment-23115 snmp Mon, 04 Jan 2010 02:52:40 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9607#comment-23115 For Gendarmerie : HK UMP in 9x19mm SMG ( http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/8539/08121102303867662860862.jpg & http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/aHva7YZlFs6kIbBEOy9pDw ) & FN Browning 1200/1300 Shotgun BTW : the Garand M1 Rifle have one part of it system base on SA Rifles RSC 1917/1918 & Pistol Lefrançais in 1913 the Firt DAO pistol ( http://site.voila.fr/collectionarme/francaisarmee.htm ) In fact for the amunition the FAMAS G1 (infantry) have an hybrid rifling between M193 & SS109. In plus FN Minimi have barel who could eat M193 & SS109. The G1 & G2 have not the same polymer frame : for the G1 is Fiberglass with an Organic polymer / For the G2 that an PA.6.6. For Gendarmerie : HK UMP in 9x19mm SMG ( http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/8539/08121102303867662860862.jpg & http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/aHva7YZlFs6kIbBEOy9pDw ) & FN Browning 1200/1300 Shotgun

BTW : the Garand M1 Rifle have one part of it system base on SA Rifles RSC 1917/1918 & Pistol Lefrançais in 1913 the Firt DAO pistol ( http://site.voila.fr/collectionarme/francaisarmee.htm )

In fact for the amunition the FAMAS G1 (infantry) have an hybrid rifling between M193 & SS109. In plus FN Minimi have barel who could eat M193 & SS109.

The G1 & G2 have not the same polymer frame : for the G1 is Fiberglass with an Organic polymer / For the G2 that an PA.6.6.

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]]> By: snmp http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/26/are-the-french-dumping-the-famas/comment-page-1/#comment-23110 snmp Mon, 04 Jan 2010 02:26:18 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9607#comment-23110 French have in Armory (in short) * Navy : with Naval infentry & 5 Commando Marine (Assault diver) - FAMAS G2 (FAMAS G1 for SF when they need to look like Army force) / SIG 55X / HK G36KE (and hybrid version) - HK USP compact & Glock 17 Mariner, MR73 in .357 - FRF2, FR 12,7 (PGM Précision), HK G3 MSG1 and G3 hybrid version - R870, Benneli Super 90 M3 & M4, Franchi SPA15, MP5 & MP5SD * Army - FAMAS G1/ SIG 55X (for underwater mission) / HK416 (SF) (in replacement of Colt M4/M16) - R870, Mossberg 50X, FN Winchester 1200/1300, Benneli Super 90 M3 & M4 MP5 & MP5SD (MAT49 for training) - FR1F2, FR 12,7 (PGM Précision & 338LM), SAKO TRG42 folding stock 300WM, MAS49/56 for training purpose, HK G3 (from German army for discount price of 50€/unit for save it form the scrap), SR25 & AR10 (with story of poor reliability) with an replacement with HK417 * Pistol MAS 50 & PAMAS G1 (92GS : S for sécurité after modification of slide after somme trooper have take it in mouth), HK USP * FN Minimi 5.56, AA52 7,62x51 & the new FN Minimi 7,62 for test in A.stan * Air Force - FAMAS G1 / HK416 (SF) - Maverik 88 Slug, MP5 & MP5SD (MAT49 for training) - FR1G2 (Buil base on MA36 action with Barel & funiture from FRF2), FR 12,7 (PGM Précision & 338LM), SAKO TRG42 folding stock 300WM, MAS49/56 for training purpose (and upgrade version) version, HK G3 (from German army for discount price of 50€/unit for save it form the scrap) * Pistol MAS 50 & PAMAS G1 (92GS : S for sécurité after modification of slide after somme trooper have take it in mouth) Gendarmerie (Military police Force) - FAMAS G1/ G36KE (External Opération in A.stan) - MAT49 for training - FRF1 in 308, Tikka T3 Tactical .308, MAS49/56 MSE (in .308) for training purpose version, HK G3 (from German army for discount price of 50€/unit for save it form the scrap) * Pistol MAC 50 & SIG2022 (PAMAS G1/Berreta 92GS are phase ou and tranfert to army) * FAMAS could have Rail (RIS -RAS) Handel Call PIRAT (PGMP) in upper ( http://www.sturmgewehr.com/bhinton/FAMAS/FAMAS_PGMP.Mount.jpg ) in lower part you could have ISAA (Interface Standard Arme Assaut : http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/1745/albumpicphppicid33619oo8.jpg ) * Ruger AC 556 (Ruger Mini 14) are for Correctionnel Officers & "C.R.S" Anti Riot Force of the Civilan Police (Police National). BTW : the Root of the G3 : STG45 => MAS => CEAM Modèle 1950 => CETME Model A & Model B (Germany bouth Licence and give the production to HK & Mauser-Rheinmetall French have in Armory (in short)

* Navy : with Naval infentry & 5 Commando Marine (Assault diver)
- FAMAS G2 (FAMAS G1 for SF when they need to look like Army force) / SIG 55X / HK G36KE (and hybrid version)
- HK USP compact & Glock 17 Mariner, MR73 in .357
- FRF2, FR 12,7 (PGM Précision), HK G3 MSG1 and G3 hybrid version
- R870, Benneli Super 90 M3 & M4, Franchi SPA15, MP5 & MP5SD

* Army
- FAMAS G1/ SIG 55X (for underwater mission) / HK416 (SF) (in replacement of Colt M4/M16)
- R870, Mossberg 50X, FN Winchester 1200/1300, Benneli Super 90 M3 & M4 MP5 & MP5SD (MAT49 for training)
- FR1F2, FR 12,7 (PGM Précision & 338LM), SAKO TRG42 folding stock 300WM, MAS49/56 for training purpose, HK G3 (from German army for discount price of 50€/unit for save it form the scrap), SR25 & AR10 (with story of poor reliability) with an replacement with HK417
* Pistol MAS 50 & PAMAS G1 (92GS : S for sécurité after modification of slide after somme trooper have take it in mouth), HK USP
* FN Minimi 5.56, AA52 7,62×51 & the new FN Minimi 7,62 for test in A.stan

* Air Force
- FAMAS G1 / HK416 (SF)
- Maverik 88 Slug, MP5 & MP5SD (MAT49 for training)
- FR1G2 (Buil base on MA36 action with Barel & funiture from FRF2), FR 12,7 (PGM Précision & 338LM), SAKO TRG42 folding stock 300WM, MAS49/56 for training purpose (and upgrade version) version, HK G3 (from German army for discount price of 50€/unit for save it form the scrap)
* Pistol MAS 50 & PAMAS G1 (92GS : S for sécurité after modification of slide after somme trooper have take it in mouth)

Gendarmerie (Military police Force)
- FAMAS G1/ G36KE (External Opération in A.stan)
- MAT49 for training
- FRF1 in 308, Tikka T3 Tactical .308, MAS49/56 MSE (in .308) for training purpose
version, HK G3 (from German army for discount price of 50€/unit for save it form the scrap)
* Pistol MAC 50 & SIG2022 (PAMAS G1/Berreta 92GS are phase ou and tranfert to army)

* FAMAS could have Rail (RIS -RAS) Handel Call PIRAT (PGMP) in upper ( http://www.sturmgewehr.com/bhinton/FAMAS/FAMAS_PGMP.Mount.jpg ) in lower part you could have ISAA (Interface Standard Arme Assaut : http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/1745/albumpicphppicid33619oo8.jpg )

* Ruger AC 556 (Ruger Mini 14) are for Correctionnel Officers & “C.R.S” Anti Riot Force of the Civilan Police (Police National).

BTW : the Root of the G3 : STG45 => MAS => CEAM Modèle 1950 => CETME Model A & Model B (Germany bouth Licence and give the production to HK & Mauser-Rheinmetall

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]]> By: Aurélien http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/26/are-the-french-dumping-the-famas/comment-page-1/#comment-23035 Aurélien Sun, 03 Jan 2010 13:43:42 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9607#comment-23035 And i stand corrected, the G3 were built by the MAS. Manurhin built the Sig 54X series for the french army in the 80's. And i stand corrected, the G3 were built by the MAS. Manurhin built the Sig 54X series for the french army in the 80′s.

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]]> By: Aurélien http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/26/are-the-french-dumping-the-famas/comment-page-1/#comment-23034 Aurélien Sun, 03 Jan 2010 13:28:05 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9607#comment-23034 Well either its a move toward a change, or a sign showing that Gendarmerie will not be issued military-contract rifle anymore, and be issued the same weapons as the Police Nationale, whos getting a shitload of G36s to replace their aging PM12S. After all there are plans to make one single police force with the 2 of them. Well either its a move toward a change, or a sign showing that Gendarmerie will not be issued military-contract rifle anymore, and be issued the same weapons as the Police Nationale, whos getting a shitload of G36s to replace their aging PM12S.

After all there are plans to make one single police force with the 2 of them.

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/26/are-the-french-dumping-the-famas/comment-page-1/#comment-23031 Steve Sun, 03 Jan 2010 13:23:00 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9607#comment-23031 Aurélien, very interesting! No love for the FAMAS, eh? Aurélien, very interesting! No love for the FAMAS, eh?

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]]> By: Aurélien http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/26/are-the-french-dumping-the-famas/comment-page-1/#comment-23029 Aurélien Sun, 03 Jan 2010 13:20:55 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9607#comment-23029 Little heads up : the french Gendarmerie has been deployed in Afghanistan, and they have not been issued FAMAS (even if its supposed to be the Gendarmeries main automatic rifle). Instead they got G36C and Ks (with Specter and M4S optics), G3A3 Rifles from HK/Manurhin and in the near future HK416 (with S&D Short Dot optics). And they Minimi 762. All the rifles seem to be brand-new (the G3s are not the same as those used by GIGN). Little heads up : the french Gendarmerie has been deployed in Afghanistan, and they have not been issued FAMAS (even if its supposed to be the Gendarmeries main automatic rifle).
Instead they got G36C and Ks (with Specter and M4S optics), G3A3 Rifles from HK/Manurhin and in the near future HK416 (with S&D Short Dot optics). And they Minimi 762.

All the rifles seem to be brand-new (the G3s are not the same as those used by GIGN).

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]]> By: Nizzle http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/26/are-the-french-dumping-the-famas/comment-page-1/#comment-21070 Nizzle Thu, 10 Dec 2009 04:11:35 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9607#comment-21070 I personally have never had an issue using the FAMAS and as for the Tavor a friend in the Israeli military says its one hell of a weapon. I personally have never had an issue using the FAMAS and as for the Tavor a friend in the Israeli military says its one hell of a weapon.

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]]> By: XxleoxX http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/26/are-the-french-dumping-the-famas/comment-page-1/#comment-20181 XxleoxX Wed, 02 Dec 2009 02:44:16 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9607#comment-20181 The solution is obvious,the french need to adopt a new weapon! The bullpup AK lol,well i've seen the RFB and it looks like a solid gun,i dont know much about internals,but that Forward-ejection system looks extremely unreliable,as for the tavor,iv'e heard its great.Maybe it is time for the French to let go. The solution is obvious,the french need to adopt a new weapon! The bullpup AK lol,well i’ve seen the RFB and it looks like a solid gun,i dont know much about internals,but that Forward-ejection system looks extremely unreliable,as for the tavor,iv’e heard its great.Maybe it is time for the French to let go.

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