Comments on: Remington entering the handgun market! [Big News!] http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/20/remington-entering-the-handgun-market-big-news/ Firearms not Politics Fri, 10 Feb 2012 22:19:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: John Callahan http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/20/remington-entering-the-handgun-market-big-news/comment-page-1/#comment-19565 John Callahan Thu, 26 Nov 2009 13:38:34 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9379#comment-19565 cool - ive always wondered why remington had never entered the handgun market cool – ive always wondered why remington had never entered the handgun market

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/20/remington-entering-the-handgun-market-big-news/comment-page-1/#comment-19150 Steve Tue, 24 Nov 2009 03:17:47 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9379#comment-19150 Phil, you make a good point regarding not being patented. I had not thought of that. Phil, you make a good point regarding not being patented. I had not thought of that.

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]]> By: Phil Wong http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/20/remington-entering-the-handgun-market-big-news/comment-page-1/#comment-19149 Phil Wong Tue, 24 Nov 2009 03:16:44 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9379#comment-19149 Why is Remington producing (again, as pointed out earlier) a 1911? IMO, because the 1911 design is the only handgun design on the current market that is both marketable AND is no longer under patent protection. Sure, the Glock, SIG, S&W, FN, XD, Kahr, H&K, et al. sell well, but Remington cannot produce and sell one of these designs without either paying licensing fees or running the risk of being sued for patent/copyright/trade dress violations. A totally new, proprietary Remington-designed handgun would require lots of R&D and T&E man-hours and $$$, and an intensive marketing campaign...and it would still face an uphill battle against the more established brand names for market share. With the 1911, Remington can produce a handgun whose design is pretty much public-domain, which is a known quantity with regard to dimensional tolerances and production methods, AND which is still popular, marketable and profitable. Sure, every 1911-manufacturer has their own little trademark quirks as far as sights, grips, serration patterns, extractors, barrels, feed ramps, etc. but the basic design is still basically the same...and people still buy 1911's every time Jeff Cooper's name is mentioned in print or on the Internet...see, someone just bought another 1911. ;^) What other popular, public-domain handgun design IS there that Remington could produce and sell profitably? The Hi-Power? Sure, but the only ones that seem to sell in the US market are the down-market clones from KBI, FEG and Charles Daly. The PPK? S&W already has that market staked out - besides, .380 ammo is still in short supply. The P-08 Luger or the Mauser Broomhandle? Puh-leese - only collectors would be interested. Nope - it's gotta be another 1911 clone... Why is Remington producing (again, as pointed out earlier) a 1911? IMO, because the 1911 design is the only handgun design on the current market that is both marketable AND is no longer under patent protection. Sure, the Glock, SIG, S&W, FN, XD, Kahr, H&K, et al. sell well, but Remington cannot produce and sell one of these designs without either paying licensing fees or running the risk of being sued for patent/copyright/trade dress violations. A totally new, proprietary Remington-designed handgun would require lots of R&D and T&E man-hours and $$$, and an intensive marketing campaign…and it would still face an uphill battle against the more established brand names for market share.

With the 1911, Remington can produce a handgun whose design is pretty much public-domain, which is a known quantity with regard to dimensional tolerances and production methods, AND which is still popular, marketable and profitable. Sure, every 1911-manufacturer has their own little trademark quirks as far as sights, grips, serration patterns, extractors, barrels, feed ramps, etc. but the basic design is still basically the same…and people still buy 1911′s every time Jeff Cooper’s name is mentioned in print or on the Internet…see, someone just bought another 1911. ;^)

What other popular, public-domain handgun design IS there that Remington could produce and sell profitably? The Hi-Power? Sure, but the only ones that seem to sell in the US market are the down-market clones from KBI, FEG and Charles Daly. The PPK? S&W already has that market staked out – besides, .380 ammo is still in short supply. The P-08 Luger or the Mauser Broomhandle? Puh-leese – only collectors would be interested. Nope – it’s gotta be another 1911 clone…

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/20/remington-entering-the-handgun-market-big-news/comment-page-1/#comment-18879 Steve Mon, 23 Nov 2009 02:23:39 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9379#comment-18879 Michael, that would not be a bad acquisition. I thought they would buy Wilson, which would also put them in the high-end AR-15 business. How long till they buy Zel Custom? ;) Michael, that would not be a bad acquisition. I thought they would buy Wilson, which would also put them in the high-end AR-15 business. How long till they buy Zel Custom? ;)

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]]> By: Michael B. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/20/remington-entering-the-handgun-market-big-news/comment-page-1/#comment-18878 Michael B. Mon, 23 Nov 2009 02:21:28 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9379#comment-18878 I figured this was coming, but thought the Freedom Group would enter the handgun market through acquisition. Specifically, I figured they'd buy Kimber and get a two-fer. I figured this was coming, but thought the Freedom Group would enter the handgun market through acquisition. Specifically, I figured they’d buy Kimber and get a two-fer.

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]]> By: Matt Groom http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/20/remington-entering-the-handgun-market-big-news/comment-page-1/#comment-18748 Matt Groom Sat, 21 Nov 2009 22:57:13 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9379#comment-18748 At least they came out with something original and didn't do something stupid like jump into a market that was already over saturated with dozens and dozens of manufacturers producing the exact same thing at every price point and quality level. Dumbasses. It occurs to me that Freedom Group hasn't bought any companies that are known as handgun producers. Long arms exclusively for these companies, at least these days. Maybe they have one of the 1911 producers in mind for there next acquisition so that they can give that company's products to the one company in their portfolio who is LEAST associated with the production of that product, like Remington. At least they came out with something original and didn’t do something stupid like jump into a market that was already over saturated with dozens and dozens of manufacturers producing the exact same thing at every price point and quality level. Dumbasses.

It occurs to me that Freedom Group hasn’t bought any companies that are known as handgun producers. Long arms exclusively for these companies, at least these days. Maybe they have one of the 1911 producers in mind for there next acquisition so that they can give that company’s products to the one company in their portfolio who is LEAST associated with the production of that product, like Remington.

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]]> By: Lance http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/20/remington-entering-the-handgun-market-big-news/comment-page-1/#comment-18678 Lance Fri, 20 Nov 2009 20:46:24 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9379#comment-18678 2 points Steve. 1 the regular military IS NOT going to .45 AUTO! WHile the Marine Corps Sec Ops and Navy SEALs went to the Mk-23 (Navy) and the new M-45 (USMC). The regular military is buying thousands of new M-9 Berettas. I believe that last year Beretta won a contract for around 500,000 pistols from all branches for the Military. So I think like S&W they just want a pice of the civilan 1911 pie. And the Sec Ops and SWAT/Tact teams use 1911s like LAPD SWAT, FBI HRT. 2. the Glock is not going away Almost 80% of Police in the US use Glocks as there standerd side arm. Whils some have gone to XDs due to extra safety devices. Most PDs dont have that requriment. After Glocks Berettas get about half of other pistols use in PDs, S&Ws are about 3rd place. the XD and the SIG are tied for 4th. All pistol programs in the military are canceled, the last was the JSPP. Even know some hate Berettas the M-9 is here to stay for quite a while. 2 points Steve.

1 the regular military IS NOT going to .45 AUTO! WHile the Marine Corps Sec Ops and Navy SEALs went to the Mk-23 (Navy) and the new M-45 (USMC). The regular military is buying thousands of new M-9 Berettas. I believe that last year Beretta won a contract for around 500,000 pistols from all branches for the Military. So I think like S&W they just want a pice of the civilan 1911 pie. And the Sec Ops and SWAT/Tact teams use 1911s like LAPD SWAT, FBI HRT.

2. the Glock is not going away Almost 80% of Police in the US use Glocks as there standerd side arm. Whils some have gone to XDs due to extra safety devices. Most PDs dont have that requriment. After Glocks Berettas get about half of other pistols use in PDs, S&Ws are about 3rd place. the XD and the SIG are tied for 4th.

All pistol programs in the military are canceled, the last was the JSPP. Even know some hate Berettas the M-9 is here to stay for quite a while.

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]]> By: Karl http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/20/remington-entering-the-handgun-market-big-news/comment-page-1/#comment-18672 Karl Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:34:09 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9379#comment-18672 I'm sure this is gear up for the 1911's upcoming anniversary as well as looking for a piece of the LEO and Military action. It appears Magnum Research and Ruger may be throwing their hats in the ring too. Competition is good for the consumer. As for GI Remingtons that was Remington Rand. I gentleman named John Rand bought the Remington typewriter line and changed the name to Remington Rand. Holding on the the Remington name for notoriety... Remington Rand DID produce the most number of 1911A1 pistols per day, for less money, with higher quality. I’m sure this is gear up for the 1911′s upcoming anniversary as well as looking for a piece of the LEO and Military action. It appears Magnum Research and Ruger may be throwing their hats in the ring too.

Competition is good for the consumer.

As for GI Remingtons that was Remington Rand. I gentleman named John Rand bought the Remington typewriter line and changed the name to Remington Rand. Holding on the the Remington name for notoriety… Remington Rand DID produce the most number of 1911A1 pistols per day, for less money, with higher quality.

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]]> By: Wolfwood http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/20/remington-entering-the-handgun-market-big-news/comment-page-1/#comment-18669 Wolfwood Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:44:51 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9379#comment-18669 <b>Eric Wells</b> might be on to something. Finding the right price point for a 1911 lets Remington know what their name is worth when it comes to handguns. It also gives them an easy (and probably cheap) way to step into the market, as they can surely sell the machinery to someone else if the 1911 doesn't really work out for them. I'm no market expert, but if I were Remington I'd start by introducing a WWII GI-style version (maybe $600-700?), a "semi-custom" version (similar to Kimber), and a high-end version. Eric Wells might be on to something. Finding the right price point for a 1911 lets Remington know what their name is worth when it comes to handguns. It also gives them an easy (and probably cheap) way to step into the market, as they can surely sell the machinery to someone else if the 1911 doesn’t really work out for them.

I’m no market expert, but if I were Remington I’d start by introducing a WWII GI-style version (maybe $600-700?), a “semi-custom” version (similar to Kimber), and a high-end version.

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]]> By: Eric R. Shelton http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/20/remington-entering-the-handgun-market-big-news/comment-page-1/#comment-18665 Eric R. Shelton Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:27:22 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9379#comment-18665 I know some departments have adopted the M&P over the Glock, but I don't know of any dropping a Glock in favor of an XD. The only two departments I know of carrying XDs have 30 or fewer officers. I know some departments have adopted the M&P over the Glock, but I don’t know of any dropping a Glock in favor of an XD. The only two departments I know of carrying XDs have 30 or fewer officers.

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]]> By: Eric Wells http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/20/remington-entering-the-handgun-market-big-news/comment-page-1/#comment-18660 Eric Wells Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:20:42 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9379#comment-18660 I doubt this is the reason for the Remington is making the 1911, but the army is picking up the Air Force Modular Handgun System( or what ever its called), and that's suppose to be .45, as well as possibly others. I would not be surprised if this is just an entry to get into the market, and are working on a "modern" polymer framed handgun also, if they are planning on entering the competition I doubt this is the reason for the Remington is making the 1911, but the army is picking up the Air Force Modular Handgun System( or what ever its called), and that’s suppose to be .45, as well as possibly others. I would not be surprised if this is just an entry to get into the market, and are working on a “modern” polymer framed handgun also, if they are planning on entering the competition

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]]> By: War Wolf http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/20/remington-entering-the-handgun-market-big-news/comment-page-1/#comment-18636 War Wolf Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:36:00 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9379#comment-18636 That Freedom Group IPO is looking tastier every day. That Freedom Group IPO is looking tastier every day.

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]]> By: Tim http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/20/remington-entering-the-handgun-market-big-news/comment-page-1/#comment-18635 Tim Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:19:58 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9379#comment-18635 You replied while I was correcting Steve. Yep, you are correct by WW II they were separate entities. You replied while I was correcting Steve. Yep, you are correct by WW II they were separate entities.

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]]> By: mike gunther http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/20/remington-entering-the-handgun-market-big-news/comment-page-1/#comment-18634 mike gunther Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:19:12 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9379#comment-18634 I think your comment about police depts going away from Glock are a bit premature. Glock is the new 21 st century version of the S&W 38 and although I am glad to see the S&W M&P line finally getting back the reputation the Sigma destroyed the Glock in Dept's in my part of the country reign supreme and for good reason. Keep up the great blog! I think your comment about police depts going away from Glock are a bit premature. Glock is the new 21 st century version of the S&W 38 and although I am glad to see the S&W M&P line finally getting back the reputation the Sigma destroyed the Glock in Dept’s in my part of the country reign supreme and for good reason. Keep up the great blog!

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]]> By: Tim http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/20/remington-entering-the-handgun-market-big-news/comment-page-1/#comment-18633 Tim Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:18:39 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9379#comment-18633 Heh, just fact checked myself after thinking about it a bit more and Remington Rand was a typewriter company in WW II although they were spun off from Remington proper initially. Heh, just fact checked myself after thinking about it a bit more and Remington Rand was a typewriter company in WW II although they were spun off from Remington proper initially.

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/20/remington-entering-the-handgun-market-big-news/comment-page-1/#comment-18632 Steve Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:17:38 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9379#comment-18632 I thought Remington Rand was completely separate from Remington Arms by WWII. I think it spun off from the original Remington decades before the war. I may be wrong about this. I thought Remington Rand was completely separate from Remington Arms by WWII. I think it spun off from the original Remington decades before the war. I may be wrong about this.

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]]> By: Tim http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/20/remington-entering-the-handgun-market-big-news/comment-page-1/#comment-18631 Tim Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:15:17 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9379#comment-18631 Remington used to be involved in the handgun market up until the 1930's (The old 1875 and 1890 single action revolvers, and later Model 51 automatic pistols spring to mind offhand), and they did make military contract 1911's during WW II under the Remington Rand label, so they do have some history with handguns and 1911's in particular. Remington used to be involved in the handgun market up until the 1930′s (The old 1875 and 1890 single action revolvers, and later Model 51 automatic pistols spring to mind offhand), and they did make military contract 1911′s during WW II under the Remington Rand label, so they do have some history with handguns and 1911′s in particular.

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]]> By: Vak http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/20/remington-entering-the-handgun-market-big-news/comment-page-1/#comment-18630 Vak Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:12:14 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=9379#comment-18630 Weren't the remington 1911s amongst the most seeked 1911s during WW2, because of their quality ? By the way, I don't really understand how anyone could perceive the 1911 as evil. First of, it killed a lot of nazis, and let's say that it's not really the kind of gun some thugs would carry. It's heavy, have a limited capacity, a safety design that is too complicated for their simple minds, can not be concealed easily. 1911s should be exempt of any kind of regulations ! Weren’t the remington 1911s amongst the most seeked 1911s during WW2, because of their quality ?

By the way, I don’t really understand how anyone could perceive the 1911 as evil. First of, it killed a lot of nazis, and let’s say that it’s not really the kind of gun some thugs would carry. It’s heavy, have a limited capacity, a safety design that is too complicated for their simple minds, can not be concealed easily.

1911s should be exempt of any kind of regulations !

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