Comments on: AR-15 and AK Dust test http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/ Firearms not Politics Sat, 20 Mar 2010 03:17:02 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Mike N http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/#comment-26177 Mike N Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:23:59 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-26177 Not to be a jerk, but why would you us a 5.56 AK for this test? They are known to be less reliable. Would this have prevented the failures? Probably not, but still. Not to be a jerk, but why would you us a 5.56 AK for this test? They are known to be less reliable. Would this have prevented the failures? Probably not, but still.

]]> By: zach http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/#comment-26067 zach Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:17:07 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-26067 @ uncle Sam SAR-3's I believe are Romanian @ uncle Sam SAR-3’s I believe are Romanian

]]> By: fallout11 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/#comment-21665 fallout11 Tue, 15 Dec 2009 15:56:54 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-21665 ....and with an aftermarket 922R compliant US-made trigger group as well, not even the original trigger group components. That said, the original AK trigger group was heavily inspired by the M1 Garand trigger group (per Kalishnikov himself). Quite a reliable and battle proven design, not to mention the decades of "legendary" AK reliability accumulated since. If the AR upper was opened and pebbles poured into the trigger group, the result would have been the same. The take away - It's an advertisement from an outfit that makes AR's, to sell you an AR. Treat it as such. ….and with an aftermarket 922R compliant US-made trigger group as well, not even the original trigger group components.
That said, the original AK trigger group was heavily inspired by the M1 Garand trigger group (per Kalishnikov himself). Quite a reliable and battle proven design, not to mention the decades of “legendary” AK reliability accumulated since. If the AR upper was opened and pebbles poured into the trigger group, the result would have been the same.

The take away – It’s an advertisement from an outfit that makes AR’s, to sell you an AR. Treat it as such.

]]> By: uncle Sam http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/#comment-17702 uncle Sam Fri, 06 Nov 2009 05:51:44 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-17702 Not real AK, only fake model made in US Not real AK, only fake model made in US

]]> By: capitalpwnishment http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/#comment-17671 capitalpwnishment Thu, 05 Nov 2009 17:56:03 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-17671 People are getting way too worked up about this. The modern AR/M16 platform is quite reliable if you aren't an illiterate mongoloid and (even though I'm more partial to the Stoner design) the AK platform is usually even moreso. This test was not to say that AKs are jamomatics and ARs are unstoppable murder machines but rather that ARs are not nearly as susceptible to dirt, or AKs impossible to stop, as every Counterstrike kiddie on Youtube claims. People are getting way too worked up about this. The modern AR/M16 platform is quite reliable if you aren’t an illiterate mongoloid and (even though I’m more partial to the Stoner design) the AK platform is usually even moreso. This test was not to say that AKs are jamomatics and ARs are unstoppable murder machines but rather that ARs are not nearly as susceptible to dirt, or AKs impossible to stop, as every Counterstrike kiddie on Youtube claims.

]]> By: Redchrome http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/#comment-17260 Redchrome Wed, 28 Oct 2009 22:56:22 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-17260 Interesting! One of the better sets of videos I've seen. Usually when people dust-test AKs they close the safety to cover up that opening. It's worth seeing what happens when that isn't done. Impressive that the AR still functioned with the cover open. (Also that the plastic bits didn't break). It does point out that any gun will fail if you put too much crap in between the fine-tolerance parts. The AK has fewer fine-tolerance parts, but the question then becomes 'will crap get in there'. The direct-impingement ARs blow crap into the action by design. The AKs have big openings for crap to get in (or conversely, to get out). Both suck in their own way. No one has yet built an assault rifle with all the best-known technological features. The SIG 550, XCR, ACR, and RFB are some of the best designs, but none is yet perfect. :) (In fact, the necessary compromises for one goal or another preclude perfection). Interesting!
One of the better sets of videos I’ve seen. Usually when people dust-test AKs they close the safety to cover up that opening. It’s worth seeing what happens when that isn’t done. Impressive that the AR still functioned with the cover open. (Also that the plastic bits didn’t break).

It does point out that any gun will fail if you put too much crap in between the fine-tolerance parts. The AK has fewer fine-tolerance parts, but the question then becomes ‘will crap get in there’.

The direct-impingement ARs blow crap into the action by design. The AKs have big openings for crap to get in (or conversely, to get out). Both suck in their own way.

No one has yet built an assault rifle with all the best-known technological features. The SIG 550, XCR, ACR, and RFB are some of the best designs, but none is yet perfect. :) (In fact, the necessary compromises for one goal or another preclude perfection).

]]> By: Phil http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/#comment-17002 Phil Fri, 23 Oct 2009 20:32:41 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-17002 "Cavalry Arms’ " That's curious. “Cavalry Arms’ “

That’s curious.

]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/#comment-16894 Steve Thu, 22 Oct 2009 04:53:47 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16894 Lance, I think everything can fail. On the other hand it shows that a few dirt particles are not enough to mess with an AR-15, contra to what many say. Lance, I think everything can fail. On the other hand it shows that a few dirt particles are not enough to mess with an AR-15, contra to what many say.

]]> By: Lance http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/#comment-16892 Lance Thu, 22 Oct 2009 04:47:53 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16892 I dont really care if the test was the hardest test they dirted up a AR and it fired fine. It prov the people who say AR-15/M-16s fail too ealiy wrong. What do you think Steve. I dont really care if the test was the hardest test they dirted up a AR and it fired fine. It prov the people who say AR-15/M-16s fail too ealiy wrong.

What do you think Steve.

]]> By: TommyLiGrant http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/#comment-16791 TommyLiGrant Wed, 21 Oct 2009 14:19:39 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16791 But it's not a AK. It's Saiga. But it’s not a AK. It’s Saiga.

]]> By: Spook45 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/#comment-16789 Spook45 Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:56:46 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16789 I have always known that the AR platform was hartier than a lot of people give it credit for, but the test was flawed. I had a friend that served 3 tours in Vietnam on a MAC-SOG team and he said his weapon worked great, he also said he cleaned it regularly during down times and when it got wet he simply pored the water out. What genius is that! The Ak is a very reliabel platform and the fact that these gents did not know how to operate an AK(IE leaving the safety off as it is part of the dust cover) flaws the test and also this is just one type of environment, in my experiance the AR is weaker in a wet environment, they dont deal well with moisture, I have studied this argument for years and came to a very simple and cost evective solution......BOTH. Both platforms have thier respective pros and cons and both are great weapons. Given the inexpensive nature of the AK I will probably always keep one. Given the accuracy and versatility of the AR I love mine , I own two that I built and set them up just the way I wanted I wouldnt trade them for anything. All in all, the test is a waste of video but it was intertaining to say the least. I have always known that the AR platform was hartier than a lot of people give it credit for, but the test was flawed. I had a friend that served 3 tours in Vietnam on a MAC-SOG team and he said his weapon worked great, he also said he cleaned it regularly during down times and when it got wet he simply pored the water out. What genius is that! The Ak is a very reliabel platform and the fact that these gents did not know how to operate an AK(IE leaving the safety off as it is part of the dust cover) flaws the test and also this is just one type of environment, in my experiance the AR is weaker in a wet environment, they dont deal well with moisture, I have studied this argument for years and came to a very simple and cost evective solution……BOTH. Both platforms have thier respective pros and cons and both are great weapons. Given the inexpensive nature of the AK I will probably always keep one. Given the accuracy and versatility of the AR I love mine , I own two that I built and set them up just the way I wanted I wouldnt trade them for anything. All in all, the test is a waste of video but it was intertaining to say the least.

]]> By: justbill http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/#comment-16765 justbill Wed, 21 Oct 2009 09:49:19 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16765 Shocking news! An AR-15 manufacturer claims that their design is "more reliable" than an AK derivative they don't sell. Who would've thought they'd come to that conclusion?! If anyone thinks these videos are anything but carefully crafted sales pitches for Cavalry Arms' wares, I have a beautiful bridge over the San Francisco bay I'll sell you. You'll get a great deal, I promise. ;-) Shocking news! An AR-15 manufacturer claims that their design is “more reliable” than an AK derivative they don’t sell. Who would’ve thought they’d come to that conclusion?!

If anyone thinks these videos are anything but carefully crafted sales pitches for Cavalry Arms’ wares, I have a beautiful bridge over the San Francisco bay I’ll sell you. You’ll get a great deal, I promise. ;-)

]]> By: TommyLiGrant http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/#comment-16764 TommyLiGrant Wed, 21 Oct 2009 09:39:22 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16764 It's very intresting videos Where it was? It’s very intresting videos
Where it was?

]]> By: Lance http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/#comment-16749 Lance Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:35:08 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16749 Sosent matter on how they done the test they got dirt into the gun and the AR still fired fine. Sosent matter on how they done the test they got dirt into the gun and the AR still fired fine.

]]> By: ArcMAge http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/#comment-16747 ArcMAge Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:13:25 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16747 Blackwater: After the first AR test, they got complaints that they ran the AR test with the cover closed, so they ran a new test with the dust cover open. Then for comparison, they ran the same test on an AK, under the same conditions: dust cover open. Blackwater: After the first AR test, they got complaints that they ran the AR test with the cover closed, so they ran a new test with the dust cover open.

Then for comparison, they ran the same test on an AK, under the same conditions: dust cover open.

]]> By: Blackwater http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/#comment-16745 Blackwater Wed, 21 Oct 2009 02:36:21 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16745 They left the safety off which also serves as the dust cover to be fair to the AK. That allowed all kinds of rocks and crap to get in. It's not a fair comparison. They left the safety off which also serves as the dust cover to be fair to the AK. That allowed all kinds of rocks and crap to get in. It’s not a fair comparison.

]]> By: jdun1911 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/#comment-16733 jdun1911 Tue, 20 Oct 2009 23:50:48 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16733 There is a big difference between rusted gun and foreign debris getting into the firing control. There is also a difference between carbon built up and foreign debris getting into the gun. No gun will work; AK, AR, etc if there are foreign debris inside the gun. The AR handle foreign debris very well compare to other firearms like the AK. Will putting the AK into safety help? It might but there still ways for debris getting into the fire control. It will stop some but not all. By flipping the switch the AR can easily go from safety to fire and back without any effort. This isn't the case for AK and he pointed it out on the Youtube comments. If a jeep ran over an AK the AK will get pancaked. I don't believe 1mm thin sheet metal will hold up to that kind of pressure. There was a lot of morons on AR15 saying the first dust test wasn't realistic. So they did the jeep test to please those morons. Like some people mentioned how often does rifles get run over in the field? http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=464962&page=1 There is a big difference between rusted gun and foreign debris getting into the firing control. There is also a difference between carbon built up and foreign debris getting into the gun. No gun will work; AK, AR, etc if there are foreign debris inside the gun. The AR handle foreign debris very well compare to other firearms like the AK.

Will putting the AK into safety help? It might but there still ways for debris getting into the fire control. It will stop some but not all.

By flipping the switch the AR can easily go from safety to fire and back without any effort. This isn’t the case for AK and he pointed it out on the Youtube comments.

If a jeep ran over an AK the AK will get pancaked. I don’t believe 1mm thin sheet metal will hold up to that kind of pressure.

There was a lot of morons on AR15 saying the first dust test wasn’t realistic. So they did the jeep test to please those morons. Like some people mentioned how often does rifles get run over in the field?

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=464962&page=1

]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/#comment-16723 Steve Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:51:02 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16723 Chris, off the top of my head there is a post recently showing a 20 or 30 year old rusted AK pulled out of a arms cache, motor oil is poured on it and then it performs perfectly. Chris, off the top of my head there is a post recently showing a 20 or 30 year old rusted AK pulled out of a arms cache, motor oil is poured on it and then it performs perfectly.

]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/#comment-16722 Steve Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:49:34 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16722 Crabula, good point about those kits Crabula, good point about those kits

]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/#comment-16721 Steve Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:47:04 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16721 Paul_In_Houston, they did not do a jeep test. Paul_In_Houston, they did not do a jeep test.

]]> By: Lance http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/#comment-16702 Lance Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:41:22 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16702 Cav arms AR-15 Prof to me that a AR can handel dusty situations just fine. AK can too but can also heavaly malfuntion too. Cav arms AR-15

Prof to me that a AR can handel dusty situations just fine. AK can too but can also heavaly malfuntion too.

]]> By: Matthew http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/#comment-16701 Matthew Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:25:25 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16701 Looks like one of their Polymer lowered offerings. Looks like one of their Polymer lowered offerings.

]]> By: Chris http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/#comment-16700 Chris Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:17:26 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16700 "I have posted videos on the blog showing AKs working under worse conditions." Link? All I found was an AK blowing up in a dudes face. “I have posted videos on the blog showing AKs working under worse conditions.”

Link? All I found was an AK blowing up in a dudes face.

]]> By: Bandito762 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/#comment-16698 Bandito762 Tue, 20 Oct 2009 18:47:13 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16698 I guess then it wouldn't be an open dust cover test though... but did you see how easy it was to get the AK going again. I guess then it wouldn’t be an open dust cover test though… but did you see how easy it was to get the AK going again.

]]> By: Bandito762 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/#comment-16697 Bandito762 Tue, 20 Oct 2009 18:43:52 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16697 if he had turned the safety on before burying it, it would have probably worked fine. if he had turned the safety on before burying it, it would have probably worked fine.

]]> By: Crabula http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/#comment-16695 Crabula Tue, 20 Oct 2009 18:30:40 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16695 When they did the test for the AK-47 they left the safety off. Part of the design of the safety is to cover the gap where the bolt handle slides between the dust cover and the reciever. I think that the test results might have been different if they had put the safety on before burying it or if they had buried it bolt handle down. To me, that is the big problem with the AK Lightning Bolt kits. They make the opening huge, and there is no way to block it. On a side note, the other unique feature of the safety is that, when engaged, the aforementioned opening is blocked but there is just enoung distance between the end of the safety and the bolt handle to allow the user to check if there is a round in the chamber. It allows you to pull it back just far enough to see the base of the round. I'm not really trying to defend one as being better than the other. Thats just what came to mind when I saw this video as to why the AK failed. When they did the test for the AK-47 they left the safety off. Part of the design of the safety is to cover the gap where the bolt handle slides between the dust cover and the reciever. I think that the test results might have been different if they had put the safety on before burying it or if they had buried it bolt handle down.

To me, that is the big problem with the AK Lightning Bolt kits. They make the opening huge, and there is no way to block it.

On a side note, the other unique feature of the safety is that, when engaged, the aforementioned opening is blocked but there is just enoung distance between the end of the safety and the bolt handle to allow the user to check if there is a round in the chamber. It allows you to pull it back just far enough to see the base of the round.

I’m not really trying to defend one as being better than the other. Thats just what came to mind when I saw this video as to why the AK failed.

]]> By: Paul_In_Houston http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/#comment-16688 Paul_In_Houston Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:20:46 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16688 Sorry if that's a dumb question already answered in the video. My computer and dial-up service make viewing videos fall into the "life's too short" catagory. - Sorry if that’s a dumb question already answered in the video. My computer and dial-up service make viewing videos fall into the “life’s too short” catagory.

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]]> By: Paul_In_Houston http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/#comment-16687 Paul_In_Houston Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:18:38 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16687 And how did the AK derivative perform on the "Jeep test"? - And how did the AK derivative perform on the “Jeep test”?
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]]> By: gun nuts from china http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/#comment-16668 gun nuts from china Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:46:27 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16668 what kind of AR they are using anyway? what kind of AR they are using anyway?

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