Comments on: AR-15 and AK Dust test http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/ Firearms not Politics Fri, 10 Feb 2012 22:12:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: subase http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/comment-page-1/#comment-31897 subase Fri, 30 Apr 2010 11:15:20 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-31897 These tests are bogus, unless they repeated it over one hundred times, it's not scientific in the least. Also the only way that could ever happen is if you dropped your rifle (your's supposed to be wearing a sling) and covered it with sand. (A specific as yet unknown type of sand, I might add) The only way to really perform a dust and dirt test is to construct a chamber that continually simulates blowing dust around, (as in realistic desert conditions) leave the rifle in there for around 10 hours and see if it works. The 'dust' can would be artificially made of different fineness of grains, with a specific ration. All the specs and materials should be easily available, not expensive and posted on the Internet, and then people would actually be able to replicate the test and see if it holds up. Not only would that be somewhat realistic, but it actually approaches the level of a scientific test, instead of this crappy promotional video. I can't wait until mythbusters tackles this. These tests are bogus, unless they repeated it over one hundred times, it’s not scientific in the least.

Also the only way that could ever happen is if you dropped your rifle (your’s supposed to be wearing a sling) and covered it with sand. (A specific as yet unknown type of sand, I might add)

The only way to really perform a dust and dirt test is to construct a chamber that continually simulates blowing dust around, (as in realistic desert conditions) leave the rifle in there for around 10 hours and see if it works. The ‘dust’ can would be artificially made of different fineness of grains, with a specific ration. All the specs and materials should be easily available, not expensive and posted on the Internet, and then people would actually be able to replicate the test and see if it holds up. Not only would that be somewhat realistic, but it actually approaches the level of a scientific test, instead of this crappy promotional video.

I can’t wait until mythbusters tackles this.

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]]> By: Mike N http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/comment-page-1/#comment-26177 Mike N Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:23:59 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-26177 Not to be a jerk, but why would you us a 5.56 AK for this test? They are known to be less reliable. Would this have prevented the failures? Probably not, but still. Not to be a jerk, but why would you us a 5.56 AK for this test? They are known to be less reliable. Would this have prevented the failures? Probably not, but still.

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]]> By: zach http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/comment-page-1/#comment-26067 zach Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:17:07 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-26067 @ uncle Sam SAR-3's I believe are Romanian @ uncle Sam SAR-3′s I believe are Romanian

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]]> By: fallout11 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/comment-page-1/#comment-21665 fallout11 Tue, 15 Dec 2009 15:56:54 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-21665 ....and with an aftermarket 922R compliant US-made trigger group as well, not even the original trigger group components. That said, the original AK trigger group was heavily inspired by the M1 Garand trigger group (per Kalishnikov himself). Quite a reliable and battle proven design, not to mention the decades of "legendary" AK reliability accumulated since. If the AR upper was opened and pebbles poured into the trigger group, the result would have been the same. The take away - It's an advertisement from an outfit that makes AR's, to sell you an AR. Treat it as such. ….and with an aftermarket 922R compliant US-made trigger group as well, not even the original trigger group components.
That said, the original AK trigger group was heavily inspired by the M1 Garand trigger group (per Kalishnikov himself). Quite a reliable and battle proven design, not to mention the decades of “legendary” AK reliability accumulated since. If the AR upper was opened and pebbles poured into the trigger group, the result would have been the same.

The take away – It’s an advertisement from an outfit that makes AR’s, to sell you an AR. Treat it as such.

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]]> By: uncle Sam http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/comment-page-1/#comment-17702 uncle Sam Fri, 06 Nov 2009 05:51:44 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-17702 Not real AK, only fake model made in US Not real AK, only fake model made in US

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]]> By: capitalpwnishment http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/comment-page-1/#comment-17671 capitalpwnishment Thu, 05 Nov 2009 17:56:03 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-17671 People are getting way too worked up about this. The modern AR/M16 platform is quite reliable if you aren't an illiterate mongoloid and (even though I'm more partial to the Stoner design) the AK platform is usually even moreso. This test was not to say that AKs are jamomatics and ARs are unstoppable murder machines but rather that ARs are not nearly as susceptible to dirt, or AKs impossible to stop, as every Counterstrike kiddie on Youtube claims. People are getting way too worked up about this. The modern AR/M16 platform is quite reliable if you aren’t an illiterate mongoloid and (even though I’m more partial to the Stoner design) the AK platform is usually even moreso. This test was not to say that AKs are jamomatics and ARs are unstoppable murder machines but rather that ARs are not nearly as susceptible to dirt, or AKs impossible to stop, as every Counterstrike kiddie on Youtube claims.

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]]> By: Redchrome http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/comment-page-1/#comment-17260 Redchrome Wed, 28 Oct 2009 22:56:22 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-17260 Interesting! One of the better sets of videos I've seen. Usually when people dust-test AKs they close the safety to cover up that opening. It's worth seeing what happens when that isn't done. Impressive that the AR still functioned with the cover open. (Also that the plastic bits didn't break). It does point out that any gun will fail if you put too much crap in between the fine-tolerance parts. The AK has fewer fine-tolerance parts, but the question then becomes 'will crap get in there'. The direct-impingement ARs blow crap into the action by design. The AKs have big openings for crap to get in (or conversely, to get out). Both suck in their own way. No one has yet built an assault rifle with all the best-known technological features. The SIG 550, XCR, ACR, and RFB are some of the best designs, but none is yet perfect. :) (In fact, the necessary compromises for one goal or another preclude perfection). Interesting!
One of the better sets of videos I’ve seen. Usually when people dust-test AKs they close the safety to cover up that opening. It’s worth seeing what happens when that isn’t done. Impressive that the AR still functioned with the cover open. (Also that the plastic bits didn’t break).

It does point out that any gun will fail if you put too much crap in between the fine-tolerance parts. The AK has fewer fine-tolerance parts, but the question then becomes ‘will crap get in there’.

The direct-impingement ARs blow crap into the action by design. The AKs have big openings for crap to get in (or conversely, to get out). Both suck in their own way.

No one has yet built an assault rifle with all the best-known technological features. The SIG 550, XCR, ACR, and RFB are some of the best designs, but none is yet perfect. :) (In fact, the necessary compromises for one goal or another preclude perfection).

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]]> By: Phil http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/comment-page-1/#comment-17002 Phil Fri, 23 Oct 2009 20:32:41 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-17002 "Cavalry Arms’ " That's curious. “Cavalry Arms’ “

That’s curious.

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/comment-page-1/#comment-16894 Steve Thu, 22 Oct 2009 04:53:47 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16894 Lance, I think everything can fail. On the other hand it shows that a few dirt particles are not enough to mess with an AR-15, contra to what many say. Lance, I think everything can fail. On the other hand it shows that a few dirt particles are not enough to mess with an AR-15, contra to what many say.

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]]> By: Lance http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/comment-page-1/#comment-16892 Lance Thu, 22 Oct 2009 04:47:53 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16892 I dont really care if the test was the hardest test they dirted up a AR and it fired fine. It prov the people who say AR-15/M-16s fail too ealiy wrong. What do you think Steve. I dont really care if the test was the hardest test they dirted up a AR and it fired fine. It prov the people who say AR-15/M-16s fail too ealiy wrong.

What do you think Steve.

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]]> By: TommyLiGrant http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/comment-page-1/#comment-16791 TommyLiGrant Wed, 21 Oct 2009 14:19:39 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16791 But it's not a AK. It's Saiga. But it’s not a AK. It’s Saiga.

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]]> By: Spook45 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/comment-page-1/#comment-16789 Spook45 Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:56:46 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16789 I have always known that the AR platform was hartier than a lot of people give it credit for, but the test was flawed. I had a friend that served 3 tours in Vietnam on a MAC-SOG team and he said his weapon worked great, he also said he cleaned it regularly during down times and when it got wet he simply pored the water out. What genius is that! The Ak is a very reliabel platform and the fact that these gents did not know how to operate an AK(IE leaving the safety off as it is part of the dust cover) flaws the test and also this is just one type of environment, in my experiance the AR is weaker in a wet environment, they dont deal well with moisture, I have studied this argument for years and came to a very simple and cost evective solution......BOTH. Both platforms have thier respective pros and cons and both are great weapons. Given the inexpensive nature of the AK I will probably always keep one. Given the accuracy and versatility of the AR I love mine , I own two that I built and set them up just the way I wanted I wouldnt trade them for anything. All in all, the test is a waste of video but it was intertaining to say the least. I have always known that the AR platform was hartier than a lot of people give it credit for, but the test was flawed. I had a friend that served 3 tours in Vietnam on a MAC-SOG team and he said his weapon worked great, he also said he cleaned it regularly during down times and when it got wet he simply pored the water out. What genius is that! The Ak is a very reliabel platform and the fact that these gents did not know how to operate an AK(IE leaving the safety off as it is part of the dust cover) flaws the test and also this is just one type of environment, in my experiance the AR is weaker in a wet environment, they dont deal well with moisture, I have studied this argument for years and came to a very simple and cost evective solution……BOTH. Both platforms have thier respective pros and cons and both are great weapons. Given the inexpensive nature of the AK I will probably always keep one. Given the accuracy and versatility of the AR I love mine , I own two that I built and set them up just the way I wanted I wouldnt trade them for anything. All in all, the test is a waste of video but it was intertaining to say the least.

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]]> By: justbill http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/comment-page-1/#comment-16765 justbill Wed, 21 Oct 2009 09:49:19 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16765 Shocking news! An AR-15 manufacturer claims that their design is "more reliable" than an AK derivative they don't sell. Who would've thought they'd come to that conclusion?! If anyone thinks these videos are anything but carefully crafted sales pitches for Cavalry Arms' wares, I have a beautiful bridge over the San Francisco bay I'll sell you. You'll get a great deal, I promise. ;-) Shocking news! An AR-15 manufacturer claims that their design is “more reliable” than an AK derivative they don’t sell. Who would’ve thought they’d come to that conclusion?!

If anyone thinks these videos are anything but carefully crafted sales pitches for Cavalry Arms’ wares, I have a beautiful bridge over the San Francisco bay I’ll sell you. You’ll get a great deal, I promise. ;-)

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]]> By: TommyLiGrant http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/comment-page-1/#comment-16764 TommyLiGrant Wed, 21 Oct 2009 09:39:22 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16764 It's very intresting videos Where it was? It’s very intresting videos
Where it was?

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]]> By: Lance http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/comment-page-1/#comment-16749 Lance Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:35:08 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16749 Sosent matter on how they done the test they got dirt into the gun and the AR still fired fine. Sosent matter on how they done the test they got dirt into the gun and the AR still fired fine.

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]]> By: ArcMAge http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/comment-page-1/#comment-16747 ArcMAge Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:13:25 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16747 Blackwater: After the first AR test, they got complaints that they ran the AR test with the cover closed, so they ran a new test with the dust cover open. Then for comparison, they ran the same test on an AK, under the same conditions: dust cover open. Blackwater: After the first AR test, they got complaints that they ran the AR test with the cover closed, so they ran a new test with the dust cover open.

Then for comparison, they ran the same test on an AK, under the same conditions: dust cover open.

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]]> By: Blackwater http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/comment-page-1/#comment-16745 Blackwater Wed, 21 Oct 2009 02:36:21 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16745 They left the safety off which also serves as the dust cover to be fair to the AK. That allowed all kinds of rocks and crap to get in. It's not a fair comparison. They left the safety off which also serves as the dust cover to be fair to the AK. That allowed all kinds of rocks and crap to get in. It’s not a fair comparison.

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]]> By: jdun1911 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/comment-page-1/#comment-16733 jdun1911 Tue, 20 Oct 2009 23:50:48 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16733 There is a big difference between rusted gun and foreign debris getting into the firing control. There is also a difference between carbon built up and foreign debris getting into the gun. No gun will work; AK, AR, etc if there are foreign debris inside the gun. The AR handle foreign debris very well compare to other firearms like the AK. Will putting the AK into safety help? It might but there still ways for debris getting into the fire control. It will stop some but not all. By flipping the switch the AR can easily go from safety to fire and back without any effort. This isn't the case for AK and he pointed it out on the Youtube comments. If a jeep ran over an AK the AK will get pancaked. I don't believe 1mm thin sheet metal will hold up to that kind of pressure. There was a lot of morons on AR15 saying the first dust test wasn't realistic. So they did the jeep test to please those morons. Like some people mentioned how often does rifles get run over in the field? http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=464962&page=1 There is a big difference between rusted gun and foreign debris getting into the firing control. There is also a difference between carbon built up and foreign debris getting into the gun. No gun will work; AK, AR, etc if there are foreign debris inside the gun. The AR handle foreign debris very well compare to other firearms like the AK.

Will putting the AK into safety help? It might but there still ways for debris getting into the fire control. It will stop some but not all.

By flipping the switch the AR can easily go from safety to fire and back without any effort. This isn’t the case for AK and he pointed it out on the Youtube comments.

If a jeep ran over an AK the AK will get pancaked. I don’t believe 1mm thin sheet metal will hold up to that kind of pressure.

There was a lot of morons on AR15 saying the first dust test wasn’t realistic. So they did the jeep test to please those morons. Like some people mentioned how often does rifles get run over in the field?

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=464962&page=1

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/comment-page-1/#comment-16723 Steve Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:51:02 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16723 Chris, off the top of my head there is a post recently showing a 20 or 30 year old rusted AK pulled out of a arms cache, motor oil is poured on it and then it performs perfectly. Chris, off the top of my head there is a post recently showing a 20 or 30 year old rusted AK pulled out of a arms cache, motor oil is poured on it and then it performs perfectly.

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/10/20/ar-15-and-ak-dust-test/comment-page-1/#comment-16722 Steve Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:49:34 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=8687#comment-16722 Crabula, good point about those kits Crabula, good point about those kits

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