Comments on: DSEi 09: PMP Neopup 20mm Personal Area Weapon http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/18/dsei-09-pmp-neopup-20mm-personal-area-weapon/ Firearms not Politics Fri, 10 Feb 2012 22:19:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: seryoga http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/18/dsei-09-pmp-neopup-20mm-personal-area-weapon/comment-page-1/#comment-22239 seryoga Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:35:56 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7929#comment-22239 Sven, regarding your scenarios: All your questions can equally apply to small bullets which don't go thru walls and stones. Suppressive machine gun fire is just the waste of your ammo to scare enemy ;-) Explosive hits next to the covering stone, to stems and ground behind.. all that is not perfect but it does work. 40 mm don't seem much more effective. They are loosely placed and are actually less dangerous than machine gun fire in open terrain. Watch the video. It's the answer to all your questions: pretty precise shots penetrating light cover. But (again) killing pro soldiers is a very hard job.. Sven, regarding your scenarios:
All your questions can equally apply to small bullets which don’t go thru walls and stones. Suppressive machine gun fire is just the waste of your ammo to scare enemy ;-)
Explosive hits next to the covering stone, to stems and ground behind.. all that is not perfect but it does work. 40 mm don’t seem much more effective. They are loosely placed and are actually less dangerous than machine gun fire in open terrain.

Watch the video. It’s the answer to all your questions: pretty precise shots penetrating light cover. But (again) killing pro soldiers is a very hard job..

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]]> By: hanz http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/18/dsei-09-pmp-neopup-20mm-personal-area-weapon/comment-page-1/#comment-20767 hanz Mon, 07 Dec 2009 12:40:30 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7929#comment-20767 thank u Sven Ortmann yes , the word is LAVISH no lavish fire here do you think that a fully automatic version and a 30 round drum will do the job (despie the added weight)? thank u Sven Ortmann
yes , the word is LAVISH
no lavish fire here
do you think that a fully automatic version and a 30 round drum will do the job (despie the added weight)?

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]]> By: viper5552 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/18/dsei-09-pmp-neopup-20mm-personal-area-weapon/comment-page-1/#comment-14817 viper5552 Mon, 21 Sep 2009 02:14:22 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7929#comment-14817 after review of the brochure i conclude they intend to market this as a potential replacement for 40mm systems like the M203, in this role it has a greater effective range, but the effects on target is insufficient in my opinion and against infantry in the open a rifle is better. as for the suppression question it is not, in my opinion, better than any dedicated 40mm system on the market today. after review of the brochure i conclude they intend to market this as a potential replacement for 40mm systems like the M203, in this role it has a greater effective range, but the effects on target is insufficient in my opinion and against infantry in the open a rifle is better. as for the suppression question it is not, in my opinion, better than any dedicated 40mm system on the market today.

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]]> By: mettandt http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/18/dsei-09-pmp-neopup-20mm-personal-area-weapon/comment-page-1/#comment-14798 mettandt Sun, 20 Sep 2009 14:31:58 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7929#comment-14798 There's 20mm OICW type weapon available in market. South Korean XK-11. Bolt action rifle which is using 20mm airburst round. They say that its round is little longer than XM-29's so it makes more fragment enough to neutralize enemy. Its fielding will begin late 09. weight 6.1kg, someone who have seen this weapon said it well balanced so dosen't feel heavy as it seen. problem. it's not combat proven. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtGpWnLi45U There’s 20mm OICW type weapon available in market.

South Korean XK-11.

Bolt action rifle which is using 20mm airburst round.

They say that its round is little longer than XM-29′s so it makes more fragment enough to neutralize enemy.

Its fielding will begin late 09.

weight 6.1kg, someone who have seen this weapon said it well balanced so dosen’t feel heavy as it seen.

problem. it’s not combat proven.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtGpWnLi45U

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]]> By: jody http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/18/dsei-09-pmp-neopup-20mm-personal-area-weapon/comment-page-1/#comment-14794 jody Sun, 20 Sep 2009 07:24:07 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7929#comment-14794 i fully and completely understand what denel is trying to do with this weapon. the point is that the idea is bad. that is why no other force fields an infantry device like this. the US just literally shut down a 10 year project to develop the same idea. the US weapons were better than the denel weapons, and they still did not do anything that you would want. i fully and completely understand what denel is trying to do with this weapon. the point is that the idea is bad. that is why no other force fields an infantry device like this.

the US just literally shut down a 10 year project to develop the same idea. the US weapons were better than the denel weapons, and they still did not do anything that you would want.

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/18/dsei-09-pmp-neopup-20mm-personal-area-weapon/comment-page-1/#comment-14785 Steve Sun, 20 Sep 2009 02:48:03 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7929#comment-14785 Martin, actually they do make explosive 12 gauge ammunition! I saw a future weapons episode where they fired them full auto, it is probably on youtube if you search. Martin, actually they do make explosive 12 gauge ammunition! I saw a future weapons episode where they fired them full auto, it is probably on youtube if you search.

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]]> By: Martin http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/18/dsei-09-pmp-neopup-20mm-personal-area-weapon/comment-page-1/#comment-14784 Martin Sun, 20 Sep 2009 02:37:40 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7929#comment-14784 Steve, you're right about it being compact compared to other semi-auto grenade launchers. However, I have to agree with the others that find the NeoPup's purpose to be a bit elusive. Sure, it's a grenade launcher, but it's tiny, relatively speaking. Honestly, how much explosive power can you pack into such a tiny warhead? Enough to cause an irritating flesh wound? Wouldn't making explosive shells for a 3" magnum 12ga be a better, more functional, and cheaper solution? Steve, you’re right about it being compact compared to other semi-auto grenade launchers.

However, I have to agree with the others that find the NeoPup’s purpose to be a bit elusive. Sure, it’s a grenade launcher, but it’s tiny, relatively speaking. Honestly, how much explosive power can you pack into such a tiny warhead? Enough to cause an irritating flesh wound? Wouldn’t making explosive shells for a 3″ magnum 12ga be a better, more functional, and cheaper solution?

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/18/dsei-09-pmp-neopup-20mm-personal-area-weapon/comment-page-1/#comment-14782 Steve Sat, 19 Sep 2009 23:43:08 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7929#comment-14782 noname, it sure did. noname, it sure did.

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]]> By: Clodboy http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/18/dsei-09-pmp-neopup-20mm-personal-area-weapon/comment-page-1/#comment-14780 Clodboy Sat, 19 Sep 2009 21:28:35 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7929#comment-14780 I think what jody is getting at is that this gun may be the answer to a question nobody asked. When people hear "grenade launcher", the first question they ask is how big an explosion it will produce, not how long it takes for the projectile to reach its target. Of course, from what I gather from the brochure, the weapon is basically proposing to fill a niche of its own: Long-range suppression. While a 20mm shell might not cause that much destruction, it sends a very clear psychological message. People in a combat zone may soon get desensitized to machine gun fire being sprayed in their general direction, but even a small explosion in front of their faces is bound to get their attention every time. So yeah, maybe we'll at some point be eating crow like the Russian brass who scoffed at Fedorov's invention of the modern battle rifle, or we'll see it get chucked onto the trash heap of failed OICW-clones. I think what jody is getting at is that this gun may be the answer to a question nobody asked.

When people hear “grenade launcher”, the first question they ask is how big an explosion it will produce, not how long it takes for the projectile to reach its target.

Of course, from what I gather from the brochure, the weapon is basically proposing to fill a niche of its own: Long-range suppression. While a 20mm shell might not cause that much destruction, it sends a very clear psychological message. People in a combat zone may soon get desensitized to machine gun fire being sprayed in their general direction, but even a small explosion in front of their faces is bound to get their attention every time.

So yeah, maybe we’ll at some point be eating crow like the Russian brass who scoffed at Fedorov’s invention of the modern battle rifle, or we’ll see it get chucked onto the trash heap of failed OICW-clones.

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]]> By: noname http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/18/dsei-09-pmp-neopup-20mm-personal-area-weapon/comment-page-1/#comment-14775 noname Sat, 19 Sep 2009 13:54:11 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7929#comment-14775 Steve, I have not seen Lord of War. Sounds like it featured inappropriate Booth Babes. Steve, I have not seen Lord of War.
Sounds like it featured inappropriate Booth Babes.

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/18/dsei-09-pmp-neopup-20mm-personal-area-weapon/comment-page-1/#comment-14765 Steve Sat, 19 Sep 2009 06:08:09 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7929#comment-14765 jody, it is a grenade launcher not a rifle. It delivers chemical energy to the target (high explosives), not kinetic energy (a bullet). speed and kinetic energy of the projectile do not matter. jody, it is a grenade launcher not a rifle. It delivers chemical energy to the target (high explosives), not kinetic energy (a bullet). speed and kinetic energy of the projectile do not matter.

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]]> By: jody http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/18/dsei-09-pmp-neopup-20mm-personal-area-weapon/comment-page-1/#comment-14764 jody Sat, 19 Sep 2009 06:06:11 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7929#comment-14764 what is the point of this thing. it sends a 20x42mm shell flying at 300 meters per second. that is a nearly useless combination of size and speed. there is a reason why no other military fields an infantry weapon like this. what is the point of this thing. it sends a 20x42mm shell flying at 300 meters per second. that is a nearly useless combination of size and speed. there is a reason why no other military fields an infantry weapon like this.

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/18/dsei-09-pmp-neopup-20mm-personal-area-weapon/comment-page-1/#comment-14760 Steve Sat, 19 Sep 2009 02:10:21 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7929#comment-14760 noname, haha, you seen Lord of War? noname, haha, you seen Lord of War?

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]]> By: noname http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/18/dsei-09-pmp-neopup-20mm-personal-area-weapon/comment-page-1/#comment-14759 noname Sat, 19 Sep 2009 01:45:24 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7929#comment-14759 Not real appropriate for these shows but more Booth Babes. Not real appropriate for these shows but more Booth Babes.

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]]> By: Fiftycal http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/18/dsei-09-pmp-neopup-20mm-personal-area-weapon/comment-page-1/#comment-14756 Fiftycal Fri, 18 Sep 2009 23:47:53 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7929#comment-14756 YEAH! 20 mm isn't BIG enough, let's go 25mm. Well, I say let's go 50 MM!! That'll show the bastards! YEAH! 20 mm isn’t BIG enough, let’s go 25mm. Well, I say let’s go 50 MM!! That’ll show the bastards!

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/18/dsei-09-pmp-neopup-20mm-personal-area-weapon/comment-page-1/#comment-14753 Steve Fri, 18 Sep 2009 23:03:43 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7929#comment-14753 Martin, it is compact compared to other semi-automatic grenade launchers. Remember, it is not a rifle. Martin, it is compact compared to other semi-automatic grenade launchers. Remember, it is not a rifle.

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/18/dsei-09-pmp-neopup-20mm-personal-area-weapon/comment-page-1/#comment-14752 Steve Fri, 18 Sep 2009 23:01:23 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7929#comment-14752 Emptormaven, I don't think so. Emptormaven, I don’t think so.

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]]> By: Overload in CO http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/18/dsei-09-pmp-neopup-20mm-personal-area-weapon/comment-page-1/#comment-14747 Overload in CO Fri, 18 Sep 2009 21:45:48 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7929#comment-14747 Doesn't look very lefty friendly Doesn’t look very lefty friendly

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]]> By: Sven Ortmann http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/18/dsei-09-pmp-neopup-20mm-personal-area-weapon/comment-page-1/#comment-14743 Sven Ortmann Fri, 18 Sep 2009 21:05:09 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7929#comment-14743 I know this thing and that it's not air burst. The lack of air burst actually decreases the likeliness to hit anything even though it leads to a smaller/cheaper fuze and therefore potentially larger warhead. Scenario: combat in forest What do you shoot at to set off the fuze close tot he enemy? The tree stems? Scenario: Urban combat, enemy in a room in house on other side of street. What do you shoot at? Does it penetrate the wall? Hitting the room's back wall through the window won't help at that warhead size. Scenario: Combat in open field. Again, what to shoot at? Scenario: Fighting uphill. What to shoot at? Attempt to hit the ground next to the stone where an enemy took cover? Scenario: Enemy behind wall at 150m. An chance to punch through the wall? There's nothing else to aim at. I know this thing and that it’s not air burst. The lack of air burst actually decreases the likeliness to hit anything even though it leads to a smaller/cheaper fuze and therefore potentially larger warhead.

Scenario: combat in forest
What do you shoot at to set off the fuze close tot he enemy? The tree stems?

Scenario: Urban combat, enemy in a room in house on other side of street.
What do you shoot at? Does it penetrate the wall? Hitting the room’s back wall through the window won’t help at that warhead size.

Scenario: Combat in open field.
Again, what to shoot at?

Scenario: Fighting uphill.
What to shoot at? Attempt to hit the ground next to the stone where an enemy took cover?

Scenario: Enemy behind wall at 150m.
An chance to punch through the wall? There’s nothing else to aim at.

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]]> By: Clodboy http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/18/dsei-09-pmp-neopup-20mm-personal-area-weapon/comment-page-1/#comment-14735 Clodboy Fri, 18 Sep 2009 19:27:49 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7929#comment-14735 They should probably extend that list of possible applications with: "Riot scenarios involving extraterrestrial 10-foot-tall bipedal fighting vehicles" :D Seriously though, there is a promotional video of it on Youtube, showing the effects of the different ammo types and perhaps giving a better impression of the unconventional "offset pistolgrip"-ergonomics. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu87AxzBf3Y They should probably extend that list of possible applications with:
“Riot scenarios involving extraterrestrial 10-foot-tall bipedal fighting vehicles” :D

Seriously though, there is a promotional video of it on Youtube, showing the effects of the different ammo types and perhaps giving a better impression of the unconventional “offset pistolgrip”-ergonomics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu87AxzBf3Y

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