Comments on: Worst. Sling. Design. Ever! http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/08/worst-sling-design-ever/ Firearms not Politics Fri, 10 Feb 2012 22:19:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: zaprod http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/08/worst-sling-design-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-63627 zaprod Wed, 25 May 2011 06:34:14 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7674#comment-63627 Bill, agreed that most of the militants in north-east use the weapons that you mentioned but let me give you a list of weapons captured in the last few years from states like manipur and assam. These include RPGs, M-16/AR-15 with UBGLs, RPDs, M79 gren launchers and even PK UMGs. Even claymore mines are rampant. these weapons generally reach the militants through there camps in Burma, Nepal or Bangladesh, through a porous border. For the past few years infiltration has reduced due to intensive operations by security forces in these states. In my view these are North Eastern Militants, most likely Assamese insurgents, but surely not training in India. most likely they must be in a camp in one of the neighboring countries. INSAS is not the best weapon in the world agreed. but a few things stand out - it is damn accurate, light weight for its size and quite easy to clean. the transparent mag is a boon, especially while operating. the open sight is very easy to adjust too. but a more recent weapon would def b a welcome change. Bill, agreed that most of the militants in north-east use the weapons that you mentioned but let me give you a list of weapons captured in the last few years from states like manipur and assam. These include RPGs, M-16/AR-15 with UBGLs, RPDs, M79 gren launchers and even PK UMGs. Even claymore mines are rampant. these weapons generally reach the militants through there camps in Burma, Nepal or Bangladesh, through a porous border. For the past few years infiltration has reduced due to intensive operations by security forces in these states. In my view these are North Eastern Militants, most likely Assamese insurgents, but surely not training in India. most likely they must be in a camp in one of the neighboring countries.
INSAS is not the best weapon in the world agreed. but a few things stand out – it is damn accurate, light weight for its size and quite easy to clean. the transparent mag is a boon, especially while operating. the open sight is very easy to adjust too. but a more recent weapon would def b a welcome change.

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]]> By: bill http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/08/worst-sling-design-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-58802 bill Sat, 26 Mar 2011 21:20:07 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7674#comment-58802 Some of you Indians are quite sure that these ladies are insurgents from North-East India but i doubt it. I'm from the North-East Indian state of Mizoram. Yes that's where CIJWS is. I have never seen a military personnel or an insurgent with an M16 in India except for foreign militaries in and around CIJWS. The insurgents mostly use double barrel shotgun, Lee-Enfield, AK47, FAL (LMG) and captured INSAS and Sterling carbine. @Armoured Strike, how many times have you been to North-East India and see the separatists. INSAS is not a perfect firearm but improvements do come along. It performed satisfactorily here in CIJWS according to the reports. Some of you Indians are quite sure that these ladies are insurgents from North-East India but i doubt it.
I’m from the North-East Indian state of Mizoram. Yes that’s where CIJWS is.
I have never seen a military personnel or an insurgent with an M16 in India except for foreign militaries in and around CIJWS. The insurgents mostly use double barrel shotgun, Lee-Enfield, AK47, FAL (LMG) and captured INSAS and Sterling carbine.
@Armoured Strike, how many times have you been to North-East India and see the separatists.
INSAS is not a perfect firearm but improvements do come along. It performed satisfactorily here in CIJWS according to the reports.

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]]> By: Armoured Strike http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/08/worst-sling-design-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-40662 Armoured Strike Mon, 16 Aug 2010 12:07:48 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7674#comment-40662 Hi, Those women in the photo are not form the Indian armed Forces or paramilitary forces. They are from some North-Eastern Indian separatist group most probably Nagas. These outfits arm themselves with weapons bought from black market (M16-A2 in the picture) or by the weapon captured from security personnel during an encounter. Indian ArmedForces does not have M16 as standard issue type especially with 203 UBGL. Hi,
Those women in the photo are not form the Indian armed Forces or paramilitary forces. They are from some North-Eastern Indian separatist group most probably Nagas. These outfits arm themselves with weapons bought from black market (M16-A2 in the picture) or by the weapon captured from security personnel during an encounter. Indian ArmedForces does not have M16 as standard issue type especially with 203 UBGL.

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]]> By: charles222 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/08/worst-sling-design-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-40363 charles222 Tue, 10 Aug 2010 17:18:48 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7674#comment-40363 ...Is that a sling, or a piece of rope? lol And loss of zero after cleaning? roflcopters! …Is that a sling, or a piece of rope? lol

And loss of zero after cleaning? roflcopters!

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]]> By: Destroyer http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/08/worst-sling-design-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-27214 Destroyer Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:14:31 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7674#comment-27214 Nothing worse than a bad service rifle. There were initial minor issues with the Tavor but the latest reports are that it is a accurate, reliable, satisfactory rifle (that requires additional training because of its different bullpup ergonomics). The British L85 was a nightmare that was inexcusable by both the British and superb Enfield (even the A2 version is still questionable when compared to the M4/M16). Not surprising that many units use the Canadian copy of the M16 and M4 and why india uses the AK-series and FALs. Like the L85, the INSAS looks like a decent weapon (a copy of the AK47 and FAL) though it obviously has significant issues that need to be dealt with. This is further reasoning why India imports significant numbers of military equipment (like Russian T90 tanks because of the significant issues that arose from the domestic Arjun design). Jody, LOL!!!! your comment reminds me of those pictures in liberia during the battle of monrovia. http://img467.imageshack.us/i/84mz.jpg/ - Life Jacket Body armor http://img467.imageshack.us/i/63lk.jpg/ - Homie G RPG stance http://img467.imageshack.us/i/105ws.jpg/ - Bounding Overwatch http://img464.imageshack.us/i/131xg.jpg/ - remedial action for the AK47 (look at the magazine LOL) http://img464.imageshack.us/i/173jo.jpg/ - superior marksmanship http://img467.imageshack.us/i/36yc.jpg/ - You know you are badass when you have a one hand AK47 stance Yes, involving people with 3rd grade educations and modern military weapons are questionable scenarios to say the least. Nothing worse than a bad service rifle. There were initial minor issues with the Tavor but the latest reports are that it is a accurate, reliable, satisfactory rifle (that requires additional training because of its different bullpup ergonomics). The British L85 was a nightmare that was inexcusable by both the British and superb Enfield (even the A2 version is still questionable when compared to the M4/M16). Not surprising that many units use the Canadian copy of the M16 and M4 and why india uses the AK-series and FALs. Like the L85, the INSAS looks like a decent weapon (a copy of the AK47 and FAL) though it obviously has significant issues that need to be dealt with. This is further reasoning why India imports significant numbers of military equipment (like Russian T90 tanks because of the significant issues that arose from the domestic Arjun design).

Jody, LOL!!!! your comment reminds me of those pictures in liberia during the battle of monrovia.

http://img467.imageshack.us/i/84mz.jpg/ – Life Jacket Body armor
http://img467.imageshack.us/i/63lk.jpg/ – Homie G RPG stance
http://img467.imageshack.us/i/105ws.jpg/ – Bounding Overwatch
http://img464.imageshack.us/i/131xg.jpg/ – remedial action for the AK47 (look at the magazine LOL)
http://img464.imageshack.us/i/173jo.jpg/ – superior marksmanship
http://img467.imageshack.us/i/36yc.jpg/ – You know you are badass when you have a one hand AK47 stance

Yes, involving people with 3rd grade educations and modern military weapons are questionable scenarios to say the least.

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]]> By: aNYU http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/08/worst-sling-design-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-22954 aNYU Fri, 01 Jan 2010 17:49:28 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7674#comment-22954 Those women soldiers are from Nepalese army or probably the maoist rebels in nepal. AK 47s arent only used from the ones collected by captured terrorists but indian counter insurgency and counter terrorist forces specifically use AK 47s as well which have been procured. Those women soldiers are from Nepalese army or probably the maoist rebels in nepal.
AK 47s arent only used from the ones collected by captured terrorists but indian counter insurgency and counter terrorist forces specifically use AK 47s as well which have been procured.

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]]> By: thirtycal http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/08/worst-sling-design-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-18194 thirtycal Mon, 16 Nov 2009 04:05:24 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7674#comment-18194 NIT, can you please contact thirtycal@comcast.net directly concerning the introduction of modern AK-100 series to IA. thanks thirtycal NIT, can you please contact thirtycal@comcast.net directly concerning the introduction of modern AK-100 series to IA.

thanks
thirtycal

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]]> By: Nit http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/08/worst-sling-design-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-18182 Nit Sun, 15 Nov 2009 21:01:50 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7674#comment-18182 To Mehul Kamdar, If Jane's Magazine is your reference about "how bad/good" the Insas rifle is,then I wish you good luck. Are you commenting, based on your experience with actual being a operator of Insas? as in a former/current IA trooper? Insas was developed and introduced in the late 90's.Hence it would "abnormal" if it did not face issues initially. And if it so bad ,IA would not that stupid to introduce close to a million rifles to it's forces, given that IA has the option to import any firearm and license produce it locally. Even the "best thing after sliced bread" Tavour had it's introduction delayed because it failed to perform satisfactorily in Indian conditions. Please note: Indian conditions. Insas works in Indian conditions. Add to this, can you please tell which other rifle has been planned to be introduced/mass produced to replace the "faulty Insas"? If you are answer is AK series / M series, then you are totally wrong. Nit To Mehul Kamdar,

If Jane’s Magazine is your reference about “how bad/good” the Insas rifle is,then I wish you good luck. Are you commenting, based on your experience with actual being a operator of Insas? as in a former/current IA trooper?

Insas was developed and introduced in the late 90′s.Hence it would “abnormal” if it did not face issues initially. And if it so bad ,IA would not that stupid to introduce close to a million rifles to it’s forces, given that IA has the option to import any firearm and license produce it locally.

Even the “best thing after sliced bread” Tavour had it’s introduction delayed because it failed to perform satisfactorily in Indian conditions.

Please note: Indian conditions. Insas works in Indian conditions.

Add to this, can you please tell which other rifle has been planned to be introduced/mass produced to replace the “faulty Insas”? If you are answer is AK series / M series, then you are totally wrong.

Nit

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]]> By: Koti http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/08/worst-sling-design-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-18172 Koti Sun, 15 Nov 2009 18:02:00 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7674#comment-18172 The info you gentlemen got is very inaccurate I say. Almost all of the problems of the Insas rifle stated are very true at some point in time. But, after the 1999 Kargil conflict(when the induction of the rifle gained momentum) most of these problems have been sorted out. The oil spilling was addressed so was the magazine cracking. You can see that most of of the regular troops are now issued Insas if you put a little effort into it. I could not find a single case when a soldier would require to fire a weapon while it was slung and he has to aim through the sights too!!! Look at the design of the sling, it wouldn't obstruct if the rifle is lifted to aim. The pic most definitely is not of Indian military of paramilitary personnel. It could be Maiosts of Nepal or the militants of north east India. The info you gentlemen got is very inaccurate I say. Almost all of the problems of the Insas rifle stated are very true at some point in time. But, after the 1999 Kargil conflict(when the induction of the rifle gained momentum) most of these problems have been sorted out.
The oil spilling was addressed so was the magazine cracking. You can see that most of of the regular troops are now issued Insas if you put a little effort into it.
I could not find a single case when a soldier would require to fire a weapon while it was slung and he has to aim through the sights too!!! Look at the design of the sling, it wouldn’t obstruct if the rifle is lifted to aim.
The pic most definitely is not of Indian military of paramilitary personnel. It could be Maiosts of Nepal or the militants of north east India.

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]]> By: Raj http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/08/worst-sling-design-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-15974 Raj Mon, 12 Oct 2009 13:39:43 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7674#comment-15974 The women on the photographs are not Indian probably they are Nepalese The women on the photographs are not Indian probably they are Nepalese

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]]> By: Richard http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/08/worst-sling-design-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-14799 Richard Sun, 20 Sep 2009 14:41:52 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7674#comment-14799 Its not just the procurement system for rifles which is bad its just about procurement of any kind of equipment for the military and internal security forces. Eevn with 26/11 we have failed to take any of the threats facing us seriously enough. With rampant corruption and state ministers building memorials of themselves is it any wonder why we are where we are???????????? Its not just the procurement system for rifles which is bad its just about procurement of any kind of equipment for the military and internal security forces. Eevn with 26/11 we have failed to take any of the threats facing us seriously enough. With rampant corruption and state ministers building memorials of themselves is it any wonder why we are where we are????????????

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/08/worst-sling-design-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-14692 Steve Fri, 18 Sep 2009 04:31:24 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7674#comment-14692 Here is the article about woman being used on the border patrol force: http://www.hindustantimes.com/All-women-BSF-battalion-to-man-India-Pak-border/H1-Article1-452876.aspx Here is the article about woman being used on the border patrol force:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/All-women-BSF-battalion-to-man-India-Pak-border/H1-Article1-452876.aspx

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/08/worst-sling-design-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-14557 Steve Wed, 16 Sep 2009 06:01:31 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7674#comment-14557 it won't be the first small arms failure. The British L85 is another example. I remember hearing a saying "the difference between the L85 and the L85A2 is that the L85A2 actually works!". It seems to me that any country wanting a fairly modern assault rifle with greater emphasis on reliability than accuracy, they can hardly go wrong with the R4, which Mehul mentioned, or if they want to use 5.45 ammo then then the AK-74. it won’t be the first small arms failure. The British L85 is another example. I remember hearing a saying “the difference between the L85 and the L85A2 is that the L85A2 actually works!”.

It seems to me that any country wanting a fairly modern assault rifle with greater emphasis on reliability than accuracy, they can hardly go wrong with the R4, which Mehul mentioned, or if they want to use 5.45 ammo then then the AK-74.

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]]> By: R.A.W. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/08/worst-sling-design-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-14555 R.A.W. Wed, 16 Sep 2009 05:07:44 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7674#comment-14555 Mehul Kamdar, "R.A.W." is a coincidence; those letters are my initials. That is indeed an impressive list of failings. I take it Indian-made FALs aren't so hot either? So if they can't domestically produce their weapons effectively, how do they intend to arm troops? It would be rather expensive to obtain them all internationally. Mehul Kamdar, “R.A.W.” is a coincidence; those letters are my initials.

That is indeed an impressive list of failings. I take it Indian-made FALs aren’t so hot either?

So if they can’t domestically produce their weapons effectively, how do they intend to arm troops? It would be rather expensive to obtain them all internationally.

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]]> By: Mehul Kamdar http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/08/worst-sling-design-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-14501 Mehul Kamdar Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:20:16 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7674#comment-14501 R.A.W. Interesting ID to troll with! I seriously wonder what an intelligence arm of the Indian Foreign Ministry has to do with firearms, but troll names are usually little more than funny concoctions. I have shot the Indian made FALs and I see the Lee Enfields that the IOF made sold here as wall hangers for under $ 100 all the time at gun shows. I have also shot the 315 rifle based on the Lee Enfield that is still made in India as well as the 32 revolver - I wouldn't use any of the long arms made in India as fence posts or handguns as paperweights. As far as the INSAS is concerned, any Indian library would have Jane's Defense Review's listings of the failures that have been cataloged since 1999 including premature barrel wear (sometimes in as little as 2000 rounds) jamming at Himalayan temperatures as well as in the Rajasthan desert and of carrying handles breaking off. To think that someone could make a complete mess of a design based on the AK 47 with design aspects copied from the Galil / R-4 would be incredible to say the least, but considering how the IOF routinely messes designs that have done beautifully in other countries, I am not surprised at the mess that they have made in the INSAS. Finally, if this is such a great firearm, why is the Indian MoD out to buy tens of thousands of new service rifles now? The IOF has to come up with unusual new stuff like its completely redundant 5.56x30 round only to justify its miserable existence. R.A.W.

Interesting ID to troll with! I seriously wonder what an intelligence arm of the Indian Foreign Ministry has to do with firearms, but troll names are usually little more than funny concoctions.

I have shot the Indian made FALs and I see the Lee Enfields that the IOF made sold here as wall hangers for under $ 100 all the time at gun shows. I have also shot the 315 rifle based on the Lee Enfield that is still made in India as well as the 32 revolver – I wouldn’t use any of the long arms made in India as fence posts or handguns as paperweights.

As far as the INSAS is concerned, any Indian library would have Jane’s Defense Review’s listings of the failures that have been cataloged since 1999 including premature barrel wear (sometimes in as little as 2000 rounds) jamming at Himalayan temperatures as well as in the Rajasthan desert and of carrying handles breaking off. To think that someone could make a complete mess of a design based on the AK 47 with design aspects copied from the Galil / R-4 would be incredible to say the least, but considering how the IOF routinely messes designs that have done beautifully in other countries, I am not surprised at the mess that they have made in the INSAS.

Finally, if this is such a great firearm, why is the Indian MoD out to buy tens of thousands of new service rifles now? The IOF has to come up with unusual new stuff like its completely redundant 5.56×30 round only to justify its miserable existence.

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]]> By: R.A.W. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/08/worst-sling-design-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-14469 R.A.W. Tue, 15 Sep 2009 07:05:49 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7674#comment-14469 Mehul Kamdar, would you mind listing all the INSAS's shortcomings in one place? I've seen articles complaining about this and that, but I've never seen an exhaustive list of the rifle's flaws in one place. Also, are the mini INSAS and INSAS excalibur any better? Mehul Kamdar, would you mind listing all the INSAS’s shortcomings in one place? I’ve seen articles complaining about this and that, but I’ve never seen an exhaustive list of the rifle’s flaws in one place.

Also, are the mini INSAS and INSAS excalibur any better?

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]]> By: Mehul Kamdar http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/08/worst-sling-design-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-14468 Mehul Kamdar Tue, 15 Sep 2009 06:11:58 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7674#comment-14468 Steve, I have heard that the Indian Border Security Force, a paramilitary outfit, has now started recruiting women to its ranks and involving them in actual combat roles. That said, the unusual logos / stickers on the stocks of the assortment of rifles that these women are carrying, and the number of different firearms that they have in a single group, suggests to me that this may be some rebel outfit in the Indian Northeast and not Indian soldiers or Border Security Force personnel. The M 16 / M 203 combination, as far as I know, has never been used by Indian security personnel and this makes me think that these women are rebels fighting the Indian armed forces even more. That said, the INSAS is a pathetic piece of equipment, even worse than the Times of India's reporting, if such a thing is possible, and if this apples to automobiles comparison could be maintained. I don't think there is a worse service rifle in use anywhere in the world, and that, almost certainly, is the reason why the Indians plan to issue a global tender very shortly to buy a huge quantity of service rifles from overseas suppliers. As has been pointed out, small quantities of Tavors have been bought for use by VIP protection units in India, but, by and large, the average Indian soldier has to use INSAS junk. If you consider a soldier's role important, then no country does a worse job of equipping its men in uniform than India does in issuing junk like the INSAS. I hope that the Indians will select a betterservice rifle (it shouldn't be difficult at all considering the INSAS) soon and distribute it to their service men and women. Steve,

I have heard that the Indian Border Security Force, a paramilitary outfit, has now started recruiting women to its ranks and involving them in actual combat roles. That said, the unusual logos / stickers on the stocks of the assortment of rifles that these women are carrying, and the number of different firearms that they have in a single group, suggests to me that this may be some rebel outfit in the Indian Northeast and not Indian soldiers or Border Security Force personnel. The M 16 / M 203 combination, as far as I know, has never been used by Indian security personnel and this makes me think that these women are rebels fighting the Indian armed forces even more.

That said, the INSAS is a pathetic piece of equipment, even worse than the Times of India’s reporting, if such a thing is possible, and if this apples to automobiles comparison could be maintained. I don’t think there is a worse service rifle in use anywhere in the world, and that, almost certainly, is the reason why the Indians plan to issue a global tender very shortly to buy a huge quantity of service rifles from overseas suppliers. As has been pointed out, small quantities of Tavors have been bought for use by VIP protection units in India, but, by and large, the average Indian soldier has to use INSAS junk. If you consider a soldier’s role important, then no country does a worse job of equipping its men in uniform than India does in issuing junk like the INSAS. I hope that the Indians will select a betterservice rifle (it shouldn’t be difficult at all considering the INSAS) soon and distribute it to their service men and women.

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]]> By: jdun1911 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/08/worst-sling-design-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-14447 jdun1911 Mon, 14 Sep 2009 19:28:17 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7674#comment-14447 Singh, It not just in India, bad reporting is common everywhere. The sad thing about it is people believe them. pjs, I hate to be the Armorer for India if what you said is true. So many different type of firearms and all the parts are incomparable with each other. What a nightmare. Singh,

It not just in India, bad reporting is common everywhere. The sad thing about it is people believe them.

pjs,

I hate to be the Armorer for India if what you said is true. So many different type of firearms and all the parts are incomparable with each other. What a nightmare.

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]]> By: pjs http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/08/worst-sling-design-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-14246 pjs Wed, 09 Sep 2009 21:40:35 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7674#comment-14246 I was in the Bangalore airport recently and saw a guard with a Russian AKMMS (underfolder AK). Pretty beat up but definitely Russian. Couldn't tell if it was Tula or Izhmash, but likely Izhmash. At any rate, I asked some countrymen about it, and they said that the AK's in the country are not purchased - they confiscated or collected from incursions on the Pakistan boarder. These AK's are then integrated into the Indian military. Additionally, the AK-103 contract was never actually fulfilled. The contract was written for 70K units not for the Indian army, but in fact for the Railway Protection Ministry (essentially, the government's security forces that protect India's substantial passenger and cargo railway services). Izhmash never built those rifles though, and the supposed factory that was to be set up in India never happened. This information has been gathered from a variety of sources in Russian and India. The New Delhi times reported this as well. I was in the Bangalore airport recently and saw a guard with a Russian AKMMS (underfolder AK). Pretty beat up but definitely Russian. Couldn’t tell if it was Tula or Izhmash, but likely Izhmash.

At any rate, I asked some countrymen about it, and they said that the AK’s in the country are not purchased – they confiscated or collected from incursions on the Pakistan boarder. These AK’s are then integrated into the Indian military.

Additionally, the AK-103 contract was never actually fulfilled. The contract was written for 70K units not for the Indian army, but in fact for the Railway Protection Ministry (essentially, the government’s security forces that protect India’s substantial passenger and cargo railway services). Izhmash never built those rifles though, and the supposed factory that was to be set up in India never happened. This information has been gathered from a variety of sources in Russian and India. The New Delhi times reported this as well.

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/08/worst-sling-design-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-14222 Steve Wed, 09 Sep 2009 06:57:56 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7674#comment-14222 any idea what nationality those women are? any idea what nationality those women are?

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