When you say that 5.45×39 AP can’t penetrated ceramic armour, are you talking about the 7N10, 7N22, or 7N24? 7N24 has a tungsten core like the M995. M995 can penetrate most Lv4 armour. Although there is very little data on the 5.45mm 7N24, due to having a similar core to M995 and if its velocity is high like that of M995, then it may be possible for 7N24 to penetrate Lv4 armour.

You can’t compare steel core to lead core bullets. Steel core bullets will penetrate better then lead bullets. That is a given. A fair comparison would be steel core for both cartridge.

The 5.56 does come in steel core, m855 (green tip)/ss-109.

A bigger guy being hit means that the tumbling has greater effect. The tumbling isn’t instant, so it does often begin too late (deep) as to do much damage to a skinny guy.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4d6_1191058315

As for AK74, it will make the taliban able to carry more ammo, probably increase their accuracy and increase their speed for followup shots. All of which is bad news for our soldiers.

I also have no doubt they are outfitting themselvs with quality optic binoculars and longer range communication equipment. Increasing their effectiveness greatly.

Michael

The USA did not sign off.

My understanding that Stinger missiles can’t target Nato vehicles with friends or foe device.

The 7.62×54R is a very good round. It’s over 100 years old and still in use. It is an accurate and hard hitting round. It is the prefer round for non-western marksmen going back to its inception. It has proven itself as an outstanding caliber.

In capable hands the Dragunov can score hits at 600+ yards. Don’t discount it.

The 5.45×39 AP or 7.62×54R AP will not penetrate US ceramic body armor. Not in the first hit anyway. The 5.45×39 is an accurate round compare to 7.62×39.

NORINCO makes good AK and 1911.

Dragunov 7.62×54R AP round Vs. Pfc. Stephen Tschiderer’s ceramic body armor, Iraq.
http://rpginn.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=521&Itemid=39

A photojournalist’s experience in Afghanistan being embedded with the British forces. I found it very interesting.

The 5.45mm round when first used in Afghanistan used a bullet that may have been illegal with regard to the Hague Conventions and is no longer used. It was designed to tumble when it hit its target. From what I’ve heard, the Afghan fighters back then feared that round for the damage it would do, maybe the memory of that round is why they want AKs chambered in 5.45×39mm.

Just curious.

“Early ballistics tests done demonstrated a pronounced tumbling effect with high speed cameras.[2] Some Western authorities believed this bullet was designed to tumble in flesh to increase wounding potential. At the time, it was believed that yawing and cavitation of projectiles was primarily responsible for tissue damage. Martin Fackler conducted a study using live pigs and ballistic gelatin demonstrating that the 5.45 mm round does not reliably fragment or cause unusual amounts of tissue disruption. [3] Most organs and tissue were too flexible to be severely damaged by the temporary cavity effect caused by yaw and cavitation of a projectile. With the 5.45 mm bullet, tumbling produced a temporary cavity twice, at depths of 100 and 400 mm. This is comparable to modern 7.62×39mm ammunition and to (non-fragmenting) 5.56 mm ammunition. The average width of a human torso is 400 mm.”

So, if the 5.56mm lacks “stopping power” against the Talibans in those long distances of Afghanistan, the russian equivalent will be even worse against big healthy americans with body armor.

As for AK-74 clones and AP ammo, it’s probably being manufactured from scratch within Pakistan itself. You’d be amazed at the ‘cloning’ that goes on with weaponary and ammuntion in that part of the world.

The Taliban are earning major bucks from the international drugs trade, so could easily pay over the odds for AP rounds from any number of breakaway old Soviet republics. If not, they could easily afford to set up their own arms factories within Pakistan.

Even if what I’ve stated above turns out to be some sort of fantasy meandering, the real fact of the matter is that the Taliban are changing weaponry for a reason. And my bet is that has more to do with battlefield practicality then with mere rumour that the AK-74 is superior to an AK-47 in armor penetration.

In short, we should be suspicious of this change and assess the new threat rather then dismiss it out of hand as ‘those wacky Taliban and their crazy gun fads’.

AP ammo is a niche round and expensive. It would be produced in limited quantities by a maybe one or a very small number of factories. Some of the US AP rounds are still classified.

All of the Coalition Forces are wearing body armor, so it would stand to reason after 5+ years of heavy conflict, even the ‘backwards’ Taliban would cotton on to buying some AP rounds. It doesn’t take a huge stretch of the imagination to believe they are getting their hands on such ammunition.

After all, the previous Mujahadeen were toting state of the art Stinger Missile systems and they cost a lot more and were harder to get hold off then a few thousand AP rounds.

Nonetheless, however they upgrade on a squad level, it doesn’t overally worry me. The continuing threat from IEDs is still the biggest killer of our troops over there.

I just wish our boys and girls weren’t over there propping up a corrupt government. But that is a different argument altogether.

A switch in assault rifle choice could still mean an improvement even though the basic design isn’t much of an improvement.