Comments on: The Trans-Atlantic battle for Rigby’s name http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/08/15/the-trans-atlantic-battle-for-rigbys-name/ Firearms not Politics Fri, 10 Feb 2012 23:10:59 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Bob http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/08/15/the-trans-atlantic-battle-for-rigbys-name/comment-page-1/#comment-85265 Bob Fri, 27 Jan 2012 21:36:55 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7366#comment-85265 press release on this earlier today DALLAS, Jan 27, 2012 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- John Rigby & Co.(R) today announced the resolution of its trademark and intellectual property dispute against a London, UK-based entity that was operating under a confusingly similar name and trade dress. As a result of the settlement, "John Rigby & Co. (Gunmakers) Ltd." and affiliated entities have agreed, in part, to cease operations under any Rigby(TM)- related trade name; to permanently close their website; to change their corporate names; to discontinue application for, or any use of, registered trademarks held by the parent of John Rigby & Co. LLC; and to not infringe on the John Rigby & Co.(R), and related, trademarks in the future. London-based J. Roberts & Son is the authorized agent for John Rigby & Co. in the United Kingdom. press release on this earlier today

DALLAS, Jan 27, 2012 (BUSINESS WIRE) — John Rigby & Co.(R) today announced the resolution of its trademark and intellectual property dispute against a London, UK-based entity that was operating under a confusingly similar name and trade dress. As a result of the settlement, “John Rigby & Co. (Gunmakers) Ltd.” and affiliated entities have agreed, in part, to cease operations under any Rigby(TM)- related trade name; to permanently close their website; to change their corporate names; to discontinue application for, or any use of, registered trademarks held by the parent of John Rigby & Co. LLC; and to not infringe on the John Rigby & Co.(R), and related, trademarks in the future. London-based J. Roberts & Son is the authorized agent for John Rigby & Co. in the United Kingdom.

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]]> By: Rajaram http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/08/15/the-trans-atlantic-battle-for-rigbys-name/comment-page-1/#comment-55790 Rajaram Fri, 18 Feb 2011 14:18:16 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7366#comment-55790 This is a followup on my previous comment (September 14, 2010 above). It is no big deal for a great company like Rigby to move from one country as the did more than 150 years ago from Dublin to London. The bottom line is quality. Rigby's reputation as arguably the greatest rifle maker ever was made after the move to London. So there is hope for the California Rigby if they are uncompromising in their pursuit of quality as John Rigby was. I have never owned a Rigby double rifle but have handled and shot one (a pre-war .450) though not at game. I have not seen or handled a California made Rigby but will try to visit them when I next visit the area. I have seen examples of Lisa Tomlin's engraving. It is superlative. But there is more to a double rifle than engraving like balance, handling, crisp action, and, above all regulating the barrels. All I can say is I wish the best to both companies as long as they produce the best. Incidentally, I found my Browning shotguns to be more shootable than the Purdey I used in India. So there is no reason why U.S. gunmakers cannot match or surpass the best British guns. This is a followup on my previous comment (September 14, 2010 above).
It is no big deal for a great company like Rigby to move from one country as the did more than 150 years ago from Dublin to London.

The bottom line is quality. Rigby’s reputation as arguably the greatest rifle maker ever was made after the move to London. So there is hope for the California Rigby if they are uncompromising in their pursuit of quality as John Rigby was.

I have never owned a Rigby double rifle but have handled and shot one (a pre-war .450) though not at game. I have not seen or handled a California made Rigby but will try to visit them when I next visit the area.
I have seen examples of Lisa Tomlin’s engraving. It is superlative. But there is more to a double rifle than engraving like balance, handling, crisp action, and, above all regulating the barrels. All I can say is I wish the best to both companies as long as they produce the best.

Incidentally, I found my Browning shotguns to be more shootable than the Purdey I used in India. So there is no reason why U.S. gunmakers cannot match or surpass the best British guns.

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]]> By: Rajaram http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/08/15/the-trans-atlantic-battle-for-rigbys-name/comment-page-1/#comment-42674 Rajaram Mon, 13 Sep 2010 14:22:54 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7366#comment-42674 Long ago, 50 years and more, I used to shoot my father's pre-war Rigby .416. I now live in the U.S. and have owned several U.S. made bolt actions. None of them can match my old Rigby for appearance, handling or shootability. I have also used a Manton double .470 made by Manton of Calcutta. It was superb. So, best quality weapons can be made in the 'colonies' but you need knowledgeable users and customers, which I don't find to the same degree in the U.S. today as in India before 1960. Like art conoisseures you need conoisseures to get the best quality. Otherwise you get moneyed people who buy by brand name because they can afford it. By the way, Hollands and Purdeys coming out today are not as good as their pre-war versions. N.S. Rajaram Long ago, 50 years and more, I used to shoot my father’s pre-war Rigby .416. I now live in the U.S. and have owned several U.S. made bolt actions. None of them can match my old Rigby for appearance, handling or shootability.

I have also used a Manton double .470 made by Manton of Calcutta. It was superb. So, best quality weapons can be made in the ‘colonies’ but you need knowledgeable users and customers, which I don’t find to the same degree in the U.S. today as in India before 1960. Like art conoisseures you need conoisseures to get the best quality. Otherwise you get moneyed people who buy by brand name because they can afford it.

By the way, Hollands and Purdeys coming out today are not as good as their pre-war versions.

N.S. Rajaram

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]]> By: John http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/08/15/the-trans-atlantic-battle-for-rigbys-name/comment-page-1/#comment-39766 John Mon, 02 Aug 2010 15:20:58 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7366#comment-39766 I think it is important to note that Geoff Miller does not and has not ever owned any of the Rigby companies. He puts the Rigby name on guns with permission of the real owner(s). Maybe he will enlighten us as to who the real owner(s) is. This is a complicated matter. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. I think it is important to note that Geoff Miller does not and has not ever owned any of the Rigby companies. He puts the Rigby name on guns with permission of the real owner(s). Maybe he will enlighten us as to who the real owner(s) is.
This is a complicated matter. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

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]]> By: Ashok http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/08/15/the-trans-atlantic-battle-for-rigbys-name/comment-page-1/#comment-21573 Ashok Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:41:34 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7366#comment-21573 I am from New Zealand and born in India - so I feel I can be quite objective. Firstly, the London firm has registered a company with a name that was abandoned in the UK. I own a business with brand, trademark & logo registered. If I abandon it, I should not whine if someone else takes it over. Secondly, the quality of the guns is critical. The Cali Merkel is not equal to a best quality London gun. To make that claim is blatant falsehood. It is an insult to the intelligence & character of the public to make such a claim. We are not dumb to accept a Merkel as equal to a Best London Gun. So what if Bush or Putin own Cali Merkels - that just shows their lack of taste and understanding of a true Best London gun or even a best Birmingham trade gun or even a best Schul guild gun. The German Merkel is a good working gun of standard quality & Merkel do not claim anything more. The Cali company has assembled this action and finished the gun in a typically American taste for the US market. To claim "Best in the World" is hot air & stale fa*t. "World series Super bowl" is fine as no one else plays the game anywhere else in the world. But to claim John Rigby with a Merkel action as "best gun" is offensive. That is like claiming a tarted up Dodge to be a Rolls Royce or even a refinished VW to be a Rolls Royce. Thirdly, I love American rifles such as the Winchester Mod 70 and scopes like Leupold. I love visiting the US & hunting there too and I have many friends there. Please do not lay claim to others' glory. Merry Christmas. I am from New Zealand and born in India – so I feel I can be quite objective. Firstly, the London firm has registered a company with a name that was abandoned in the UK. I own a business with brand, trademark & logo registered. If I abandon it, I should not whine if someone else takes it over. Secondly, the quality of the guns is critical. The Cali Merkel is not equal to a best quality London gun. To make that claim is blatant falsehood. It is an insult to the intelligence & character of the public to make such a claim. We are not dumb to accept a Merkel as equal to a Best London Gun. So what if Bush or Putin own Cali Merkels – that just shows their lack of taste and understanding of a true Best London gun or even a best Birmingham trade gun or even a best Schul guild gun. The German Merkel is a good working gun of standard quality & Merkel do not claim anything more. The Cali company has assembled this action and finished the gun in a typically American taste for the US market. To claim “Best in the World” is hot air & stale fa*t. “World series Super bowl” is fine as no one else plays the game anywhere else in the world. But to claim John Rigby with a Merkel action as “best gun” is offensive. That is like claiming a tarted up Dodge to be a Rolls Royce or even a refinished VW to be a Rolls Royce. Thirdly, I love American rifles such as the Winchester Mod 70 and scopes like Leupold. I love visiting the US & hunting there too and I have many friends there. Please do not lay claim to others’ glory. Merry Christmas.

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]]> By: geoff miller http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/08/15/the-trans-atlantic-battle-for-rigbys-name/comment-page-1/#comment-20382 geoff miller Thu, 03 Dec 2009 21:16:13 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7366#comment-20382 Mr. Bradshaw has never engraved one of our guns, although he solicited work from us we felt he was not up to our standards....sour grapes.... We use the finest engravers in the world...I would refer you to the newest DOUBLE GUN JOURNAL which has an article on our superstar engraver LISA TOMLIN who we feel is perhaps the best engraver that ever lived...our clients think so too..some of her Rigby guns have sold for over $150,000.. She is back-ordered for over two years and has done guns for President GHW Bush, General Chuck Yeager, General H Norman Schwartzkopf and will soon be working on guns for George Bush and Vladimer Putin... In addition we use Gil Rudolf, Charles Lee (20 years at Purdey's) Cecile Flohmont ( Holland and Purdey's) and we will have some Guns done by the GRAND MASTER OF ALLs' Daughter Francessca Fraccasi Mr. Bradshaw has never engraved one of our guns, although he solicited work from us we felt he was not up to our standards….sour grapes….

We use the finest engravers in the world…I would refer you to the newest DOUBLE GUN JOURNAL which has an article on our superstar engraver LISA TOMLIN who we feel is perhaps the best engraver that ever lived…our clients think so too..some of her Rigby guns have sold for over $150,000..
She is back-ordered for over two years and has done guns for President GHW Bush, General Chuck Yeager, General H Norman Schwartzkopf and will soon be working on guns for George Bush and Vladimer Putin…

In addition we use Gil Rudolf, Charles Lee (20 years at Purdey’s) Cecile Flohmont ( Holland and Purdey’s) and we will have some Guns done by the GRAND MASTER OF ALLs’ Daughter Francessca Fraccasi

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]]> By: Francis http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/08/15/the-trans-atlantic-battle-for-rigbys-name/comment-page-1/#comment-15139 Francis Sun, 27 Sep 2009 08:59:27 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7366#comment-15139 By his own admission Carl Erikson in a recentl article in the Gun trade News admitted that he has imported a pair of shotguns bearing the name John Rigby & Co made ny Le Beau Courally. The guns shown on other forums definitely are not made in England, so what is the hope for an English made double rifle By his own admission Carl Erikson in a recentl article in the Gun trade News admitted that he has imported a pair of shotguns bearing the name John Rigby & Co made ny Le Beau Courally. The guns shown on other forums definitely are not made in England, so what is the hope for an English made double rifle

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]]> By: Steven http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/08/15/the-trans-atlantic-battle-for-rigbys-name/comment-page-1/#comment-15082 Steven Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:41:10 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7366#comment-15082 I can see a very easy fix to this hole problem. Let the California Co. use the name; John Rigby&Co.(Gunmakers) Ltd and the London Co. use; Jon. Rigby&Co. (Gunmakers) Ltd. The public could then tell them apart. It has been a dream of mine to own a Rigby double rifle for most of my life (at least the last 30-35 years). When the firm opened in California and I was able to look at their offerings I felt that the dream of a new Rigby was over. They did not come close to the Rigby in my dreams. With the London Co. the dream is alive again. I can see a very easy fix to this hole problem. Let the California Co. use the name; John Rigby&Co.(Gunmakers) Ltd and the London Co. use; Jon. Rigby&Co. (Gunmakers) Ltd. The public could then tell them apart. It has been a dream of mine to own a Rigby double rifle for most of my life (at least the last 30-35 years). When the firm opened in California and I was able to look at their offerings I felt that the dream of a new Rigby was over. They did not come close to the Rigby in my dreams. With the London Co. the dream is alive again.

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]]> By: bruce http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/08/15/the-trans-atlantic-battle-for-rigbys-name/comment-page-1/#comment-14017 bruce Fri, 04 Sep 2009 12:05:58 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7366#comment-14017 To expect a firm from the colonies who put tomato catchup on everything, to make a proper fitting gun is a bit like pi***** in the wind. Lets call a spade a spade you may buy the name but you cannot put workmanship into it if you only have money and no history. This idea of asking the price as well when you walked into the old King street shop in Covent garden is also rather an indiscretion, engravers and fitters must care and not work for less for a California firm or you won't get the quality. It's like not appreciating steak and kidney pie or soggy vineger soaked chips wrapped in newspaper. It is just not done and not expected from the "bargain hunter" no pun intended. No offense but they may have part of the name but it's not a Rigby gun. To expect a firm from the colonies who put tomato catchup on everything, to make a proper fitting gun is a bit like pi***** in the wind. Lets call a spade a spade you may buy the name but you cannot put workmanship into it if you only have money and no history. This idea of asking the price as well when you walked into the old King street shop in Covent garden is also rather an indiscretion, engravers and fitters must care and not work for less for a California firm or you won’t get the quality. It’s like not appreciating steak and kidney pie or soggy vineger soaked chips wrapped in newspaper. It is just not done and not expected from the “bargain hunter” no pun intended. No offense but they may have part of the name but it’s not a Rigby gun.

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]]> By: bruce bradshaw http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/08/15/the-trans-atlantic-battle-for-rigbys-name/comment-page-1/#comment-14015 bruce bradshaw Fri, 04 Sep 2009 11:30:47 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7366#comment-14015 As a former engraver on Rigby's I have seen the quality. The cali firm is lacking somewhat in it's mechanical approach (nasa style cad. lathe machines) and the fit is definately not as tight. Their engraving has suffered as the search for a cheaper way, cheaper engravers (of which there are, you get what you pay for) was sought. The UK firm and workers undoubtably make a better product. And....if you have to ask the cost you probably can't afford it. The original name is distinct and clearly different than Rigby's California, which leaves a bad cup of tea taste with me. Thanks Bruce As a former engraver on Rigby’s I have seen the quality. The cali firm is lacking somewhat in it’s mechanical approach (nasa style cad. lathe machines) and the fit is definately not as tight. Their engraving has suffered as the search for a cheaper way, cheaper engravers (of which there are, you get what you pay for) was sought. The UK firm and workers undoubtably make a better product. And….if you have to ask the cost you probably can’t afford it. The original name is distinct and clearly different than Rigby’s California, which leaves a bad cup of tea taste with me. Thanks Bruce

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]]> By: Dave http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/08/15/the-trans-atlantic-battle-for-rigbys-name/comment-page-1/#comment-13697 Dave Fri, 28 Aug 2009 03:51:11 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7366#comment-13697 The "London made shotgun" for 10k£ ? There's one born every minute eh? The “London made shotgun” for 10k£ ?
There’s one born every minute eh?

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]]> By: Reed http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/08/15/the-trans-atlantic-battle-for-rigbys-name/comment-page-1/#comment-13269 Reed Sun, 16 Aug 2009 01:19:59 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7366#comment-13269 I agree with Freiheit, a hunt-off is obviously the way to settle this dispute. I agree with Freiheit, a hunt-off is obviously the way to settle this dispute.

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/08/15/the-trans-atlantic-battle-for-rigbys-name/comment-page-1/#comment-13266 Steve Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:44:15 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7366#comment-13266 Matt, they *start* at $10,000! That gets you the most basic gun. $100,000 gets you the top of the line. Matt, they *start* at $10,000! That gets you the most basic gun. $100,000 gets you the top of the line.

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]]> By: Matt Groom http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/08/15/the-trans-atlantic-battle-for-rigbys-name/comment-page-1/#comment-13263 Matt Groom Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:45:42 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7366#comment-13263 I think the London company should lose their shirts for this, and believe me, I have no sympathy for California. But $10,000? Seriously? Do people really pay that much for nostalgia? There was a time when a serious double rifle was extremely difficult to produce and state of the art technology combined with high art, but now, even if they're made in the old way, that's just ridiculous. There's no conceivable reason why a double rifle should cost more than a motorcycle. I think the London company should lose their shirts for this, and believe me, I have no sympathy for California.

But $10,000? Seriously? Do people really pay that much for nostalgia? There was a time when a serious double rifle was extremely difficult to produce and state of the art technology combined with high art, but now, even if they’re made in the old way, that’s just ridiculous. There’s no conceivable reason why a double rifle should cost more than a motorcycle.

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]]> By: Simon_The_Brit http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/08/15/the-trans-atlantic-battle-for-rigbys-name/comment-page-1/#comment-13259 Simon_The_Brit Sat, 15 Aug 2009 15:36:25 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7366#comment-13259 Naturally I side with the UK firm ;) The very idea that a bunch of colonials are using the Rigby name is enough to put one off one's Vension Pie, the bounders will be wanting independance next :) Naturally I side with the UK firm ;) The very idea that a bunch of colonials are using the Rigby name is enough to put one off one’s Vension Pie, the bounders will be wanting independance next :)

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/08/15/the-trans-atlantic-battle-for-rigbys-name/comment-page-1/#comment-13248 Steve Sat, 15 Aug 2009 02:10:28 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7366#comment-13248 SPQR, I meant in regards to enforcement and recognition. There are no treaties that I am aware of that will allow the holder of a USPTO registered trademark and enforce it in the UK. SPQR, I meant in regards to enforcement and recognition. There are no treaties that I am aware of that will allow the holder of a USPTO registered trademark and enforce it in the UK.

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]]> By: SPQR http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/08/15/the-trans-atlantic-battle-for-rigbys-name/comment-page-1/#comment-13247 SPQR Sat, 15 Aug 2009 01:33:45 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7366#comment-13247 There are in fact international treaties regarding trademarks, but they mainly are oriented around ways to get one's trademarks registered. See the Madrid Protocol. There are in fact international treaties regarding trademarks, but they mainly are oriented around ways to get one’s trademarks registered. See the Madrid Protocol.

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/08/15/the-trans-atlantic-battle-for-rigbys-name/comment-page-1/#comment-13244 Steve Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:10:55 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7366#comment-13244 georgeh, ah, thanks makes sense! georgeh, ah, thanks makes sense!

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]]> By: georgeh http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/08/15/the-trans-atlantic-battle-for-rigbys-name/comment-page-1/#comment-13238 georgeh Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:18:39 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7366#comment-13238 Re: Jno. Rigby. Jno. was a common abbreviation of Jonathon for hundreds of years. Jonathon may have been the original Mr. Rigby's legal name, as John is a diminutive of Jonathon. Re: Jno. Rigby.

Jno. was a common abbreviation of Jonathon for hundreds of years. Jonathon may have been the original Mr. Rigby’s legal name, as John is a diminutive of Jonathon.

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]]> By: Erik http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/08/15/the-trans-atlantic-battle-for-rigbys-name/comment-page-1/#comment-13237 Erik Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:16:34 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=7366#comment-13237 As mentioned who knows about the ultimate legal result, but seems pretty clear the UK group is infringing on the US company's name/trademark. Since it is an international legal matter common sense will have little to do with it. How big is the market for these guns, anyway? I know doubles have made a come-back, but I am curious how many $10,000+ rifles are sold in a given year. As mentioned who knows about the ultimate legal result, but seems pretty clear the UK group is infringing on the US company’s name/trademark. Since it is an international legal matter common sense will have little to do with it.

How big is the market for these guns, anyway? I know doubles have made a come-back, but I am curious how many $10,000+ rifles are sold in a given year.

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