People forget the dealers back in the 1980s (ish) dealing out in an irresponsible way then coming back to the public and saying stuff like “what I’m doing is technically legal”. Even when they were knowingly dealing heavily (not all but a significant number) with criminals or buyers that were reselling to criminals. Selling stuff like assault rifles to teenagers as their first gun (basically treating them like toys). Bulk straw buyers etc. In my opinion there is a moral aspect in the way you function in business. If you know or should know you shouldn’t be selling guns to certain people, just because its legal doesn’t make it ok. Especially during that time period. If you don’t want to be regulated or over-regulated moderate your own behavior in a responsible way ___community___.

The dealers ended up basically challenging the government and public to create laws restricting their actions. You ended up with the mess you have today. Once you get that train moving its not going to stop until it hits a wall (for example the law associated with this thread).

Its obviously more complicated but its also not so simple as saying stupid liberals. There’s plenty of blame and its not one sided.

Obviously people raise the issue of statistics. Everyone knows that’s a game. Living something and observing those around you in your community are more meaningful. Its never one thing criminal punishment is extremely harsh, the economy is better, etc etc.

I think people can overstate the lack of availability of guns in California. If you were a collector or interested in very specific configurations of a model it would suck. Some models are harder to get or modified to make them less desirable but they’re mostly still there.

Handguns are a different story. I honestly hope nobody fixes micro-stamping. It forces lawmakers and the public to rethink the direction they’ve been going. To readjust and back out the law.

Criminals and especially gang bangers have NO respect for the law. Passing laws which restrict firearms doesn’t affect criminals. They don’t care or respect our laws.

We have to choose an extreme side or we will loose all our rights. Say you have $100. You meet with those who wish to take all your money away and strike a deal. You give up $40. In 2 years “they” come back and want more. This time you give up $20. See where this is going? If you let them take anything they’ll slowly and methodically chisel away until you have nothing left.

As for your gun dealers making illegal sales to gang members, throw them under the bus and prosecute them to the FULL extent of the law. It is those dirt bags who give the anti’s power to take away our gun rights.

And as a side note, you’ve got to admit the news here in CA often will make a mountain out of a mole hill for anything pertaining to firearms.

Gun show restrictions… anyone in California remember how that got banned. Gun dealers at gun shows doing straw buys of sub machine guns and assault weapons to gang members. Actually straw buys to criminals in general were showing up on tv rather commonly. Should they ban the gun? Probably not but at the same time the people that protect the guns protect the dealers as well. Its easy for them to ban the gun that get the bad dealers.

The laws in California will never change for the better if everyone chooses an extreme side. You just end up with stupid results like the micro stamping.

I can explain how gun laws controlled drive by shootings. By banning weapons in the passenger areas of cars police could prevent and arrest individuals driving the streets with guns. Just because someone is a criminal does not mean that have been convicted. Who else but a criminal needs to have a submachine gun or assault rifle in the passenger compartment of their car. It was an extremely effective law, people that haven’t lived in CA shouldn’t comment on what they don’t know. You’re talking about a state with MASSIVE organized crime, gangs etc. After many many law changes I can testify the difference in crime is extremely dramatic. Many of these laws are out of date or foolish at this point, but many in their time help break the back of massive violent crime.

I don’t know what imaginary world people are from that California doesn’t elect REPUBLICAN governors, doesn’t elect some of the most conservative representatives in the country fairly regularly. My representative is probably one of the most conservative in the entire country. People confuse gun selection with pro-con gun support. Just because people don’t support $10 guns or assault weapons doesn’t make you anti-gun. It the single minded behavior that makes thing in California worse and worse from both sides.

B Woodman is right about the quote of course. Obama said he’d been in “…fifty…seven other states. One more to go.” He also said he wanted to visit Alaska and Hawaii, but his staff wouldn’t allow him to go. 57+1+Alaska+Hawaii= 60 states. Geez. I’m sure glad we finally have a president who isn’t and idiot.

As you might already know, the first gun control laws were enacted right after the Civil War, aimed at freed slaves in the South.

Explain to me, Jack, how Gun Laws stopped drive by shootings? Or how they stopped road rage, or armed robbery, or rape or any other crime?

“Don’t do it!”
“Oh! Okay. I was really gonna murder that ni**a, but since it’s illegal to use a gun, I guess I won’t!”

I was stationed in CA when I was a Marine, and I sure didn’t know any Pro-Gun Republican/Conservative/Libertarian/Independents who were actually FROM CA. I knew lots of guys like that from other places, but being stationed there doesn’t make it your home, and that means the legislature doesn’t give a shit what you think. Not like you can vote the bastards out, now is it?

For all of the rich, conservative, Republicans in this country, I can’t think of a single one who lives in CA who doesn’t have a radio show that I can name. Can you name any?

When the people don’t care, it means they tacitly support the actions of the legislature. If they cared, the legislature wouldn’t do these things, because they’d get voted out. The opposite of support is NOT apathy, it’s condemnation and action. This argument does not vindicate CA as the most Left leaning state on the Left coast. Reagan was the governor 1965-75. Wow. That was, like, BEFORE Disco.

As far as manufactures not selling in CA, let me just point out to you, in case you are not aware, that there are 49 other states. I know Obama said there was 58, but there’s only 50, I assure you. CA is only one state. As for stupidity leading to bankruptcy, the gun manufacturers who refuse to sell or service guns to CA are posting record sales figures and profits, and CA is issuing IOUs to State employees. Who’s stupid again?

People that haven’t living for a long time in California don’t remember or see the very obvious difference in things like drive by shooting, murder and random violence that ___some___ of the gun laws helped fix. Most of the modern guns laws like the one above are foolish and in many cases just plain stupid.

I welcome the stupidity of gun manufacturers not selling in California, if they are that stupid they aren’t qualified to be building __weapons__. How many years until they go bankrupt?

Did anyone see “Mr. Brooks”? He used a plastic news paper bag wrapped around his hand with a rubber band to catch the brass. I thought that was cleaver, but I doubt the writer of that film was the first to think of that. Criminals are a wily and ingenious bunch when they have to be. As they say, necessity is the mother of invention.

B Woodman is absolutely right. The firearms industry should stop selling to CA entirely, just cut them off of all new firearms. Police, State agencies, everyone, until they stop acting like shit heads. If I was selling in the state of CA, I would not sell any guns to LEOs that I could not sell to civilians, and I would charge them the same price. Would somebody else get the sale? Probably, but they’d also take the heat when a shady cop sold guns to a gang member who used it in a crime, too.

I wonder what happens if the firing pin breaks? Have to send it to a certified gunsmith or back to the manufacturer? Ring up the records department and register your firing pin?

With apologies to all gun manufacturers, wholesalers and retailers. And to all the good and lawful citizens, who would have to hide whatever arms and ammunition they already have, or hide them deeper, against unlawful seizure and confiscation.

ALL gun and ammunition manufacturers need to band together & agree to STOP selling weapons, parts, service & ammo to and within the People’s Republik of Kalifornication. Every “reasonable” gun law that’s passed becomes more and more UN-reasonable. The anti-gunners can never be made happy by your efforts, except to the extreme end of total gun ban, gun confiscation, and bankruptcy.

Show the Kalifornication politicos what a total gun ban would be like. Stop supplying the “Only Ones” with the tools of their trade. Police, security guards, prison guards, state-run National Guard; all without the quick and handy replacing of arms and ammo. When they become desperate enough for the need to replenish, what will they do? Where will they go? And considering Kalifornication’s state of bankruptcy, would any other state sell to them (other then for cold, hard cash, preferably gold)? How much would they be willing to spend? Or bend to make concessions? Or repeal certain laws that would allow Kalifornication to be more gun-friendly?

Gun and ammunition manufacturers, YOU HAVE POWER. You just need to use that power, flex your muscles, and get the bullies of Kalifornication off your back.

For example rather than manufacturers forcing things like loaded-chamber indicators and no-fire without magazine cutouts into designs, it is countered with a law requiring mandatory safety training to address the behaviours that lead to the “need” for those addons.

The effect is that the anti-gun crowd appears to be backing down, when in reality they’re getting a lot more than they had coming in.

The other detestable tactic are the organizations called “Blah Blah’s Against Gun Violence”. I’m against gun violence. I bet the NRA even has a statement about gun violence. The problem is these organizations are not stopping gun violence, they are attempting to stop guns.

Every time I read about this kind of crap I am reminded of why I got out of politics as well as why I got in.