New FN Five-SeveN Standard model

The FN Five-SeveN Standard is a new model from FNH USA. The Standard has fixed three dot combat sights, while the other models feature an adjustable rear sight.

5.7 Sights

The MSRP is $1316.56, which I presume is less than the other models because of the cheaper sights. I have emailed the PR person to confirm this.

The FN Five-SeveN chambers the 5.7x28mm which is a round marketed at law enforcement who can use it with ballistic-vest penetrating ammunition that is not available to civilians.

UPDATE: These are actually better sights than the other models which have a $1237.50. Thanks to David for the info.



Steve Johnson

Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.


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  • Whatever

    I don’t get the appeal of the 5.7×28mm cartridge. It’s fine for what it is but why did they bother with it when a very similar (and more effective IMHO) cartridge already exists, the 7.62x25mm Tokarev. Both launch smaller diameter bullets at pretty high velocity for pistol rounds. Both can be made to punch holes in body armor if required. I guess it’s a lot harder to sell firearms as revolutionary and an advance over the current state of the art if they use a cartridge that’s more than fifty years old.

    An even better self defense round is the 30 Carbine, another fifty year old cartridge, though it’s much harder to make that one fit into an autoloading pistol while keeping decent ergonomics.

  • Whatever

    I almost forgot, if you want an even closer copy of the FN 5.7x28mm, there is the 22 WMR. Almost the same diameter bullet and almost the same velocity for a given bullet weight. I guess it would be hard to try to sell a firearm to the military or police and be taken seriously if it fired a rimfire cartridge.

  • Carl

    Kind of useless pistol for civilians if you aren’t allowed to buy the ammo the gun is designed for.
    Oh, and it’s ridiculously expensive as well.

    Grendel P30 30 round .22 WMR pistol:
    http://www.hk94.com/hk/topic/19607-tech-report-grendel-p30/

  • Kyle

    The only reason the ATF found the 5.7 cartridge to be “Vest Penetrating” is because they teflon coated the bullets to prevent wear on the barrel, suddenly coating a bullet in a nonstick material makes it a “Vest Penetrator” 9mm will go through police vests too, a lot of people wont beleive it but I’ve seen them shoot the vests they depend on with 9mm factory loads, not hollow point, not FMJ or anymixture of the too, just the factory target 9mm and it went through like a hot knife through butter. So if i coat my .22 with Pam, does that make it armor piercing?

  • Wolfwood

    It does seem kind of like a re-invention of the CZ-52. For the military, I can see the benefit of having 20 versus 8 rounds of smaller ammunition (plus a tac rail…oooohhh…). I’m not sure I really want the police to have that many rounds of armor-piercing ammunition; if they need it then they should have an AR-15. For the cost of one FiveseveN, you could have a short-barreled AR-15 with quality red-dot plus a CZ-52.

  • Matt Groom

    5.7×28 is a positively TERRIBLE cartridge design. The whole premise of the need to shoot through body armor as a priority is flawed and stupid. This is a blowback operated, plastic framed, .22 with a price tag that would make an Olympic grade target pistol blush. Oh! But now it has fixed sights, so it’s affordable!!! FN is run by a bunch of retards, and I mean that in the most insensitive and politically incorrect way imaginable. No wonder Winchester went out of business on their watch. This is what happens when you build guns for Socialist regimes who are not accountable to the taxpayers. A 400% mark up? What is this, a hospital? Do we have to pay for the 3 guns you AREN’T selling in addition to the one we’re buying? MORONS!

  • Rodolfo

    I agree. I really like the Tokarev. $1.3k gets me 3 of them, plus a lot of ammo and several magazines for each.

    (I was going to say “clip” just to see the nomenclature Nazis come out of the woodwork)

  • Squidpuppy

    C’mon guys, it’s a range toy; what’s so wrong about that? I get a real kick outa mine, and everyone at the range wants to play with it, so fine. I’m certainly not turning to this to put down goblins. Now, if I could have a real P90, maybe that’d be a different story… or maybe I’d just get a real MP5 or USC. Whatever.

    So who wants to talk about the 4.6x30mm? ^_^

  • Matt Groom

    Squidpuppy is right!

    The 4.6×30 is a MUCH WORSE design than the 5.7×28, and I think H&K knows that, which is why they won’t even attempt to sell it to civilians.

    I would probably buy a FN Five-Seven pistol if they were reasonably priced, but considering I can get a fully CNC machined, monolithic platformed AR-57 upper for LESS MONEY, I’ll go with the toy that is both better built, and cheaper.

  • Mu

    If you praise the Tokarev, you should give the credit where it’s due, the 7.63 Mauser. The Tokarev was a “renamed for political reasons” copy of the cartridge first developed for the Mauser C96, over a hundred years ago.
    As for the sense of the 5.7 over the 22.wmr, you get to the old debate between 22lfr against .25 auto. For a defense weapon, I’d always go with the robust centerfire cartridge for better feeding any day.

  • Carl

    Matt, why is shooting through body armor a bad idea? Isn’t body armor becoming more common on the battlefield?

    What about the terminal ballistics? Doesn’t the 5.7 tumble as I guess it is supposed to?

    .357 sig is another smallish bullet with high velocity. Available in Glocks and Sigs etc I believe.

  • Matt Groom

    Mu,
    The 7.63 Mauser was just an updated version of the 7.62 Borchardt! Credit where credit is due! I love that the Tokarev was originally an American design.

    Unfortunately Carl, the Belgians specifically developed the 5.7×28 NOT to tumble and NOT to fragment or expand, because the European sensibilities are such that if you shoot a bloke, he should be logical and proper enough to acquiesce to your argument, recognize the seriousness of his injuries, and seek proper medical attention before any such time as he would be so inclined as to return fire to wound and/or kill his opponent in mortal combat. It’s more ‘humane’ that way. That’s why it’s a stupid idea. It’s designed with ineffectiveness in mind.

    As for the use of body armor in combat, there was a suspicion that since the US and other NATO forces had been experimenting and in many cases implementing body armor on a large scale since WWII, that the Soviets would eventually wise up and do the same. It’s not like the Communists were inclined to send wave after wave of untrained and barely armed masses of conscripts over mine fields and into decimating machine gun fire in horrifically ineffective human wave attacks, now were they? The Soviets were smart enough not to waste money on equipment that would increase the soldier’s burden and discomfort, while offering him little more than piece of mind in return.

    They never adopted body armor on a large scale, and only well-heeled conventional armies do that anyway. The cold war has been over for about 17 years, and it seems silly to think that we’re going to see another conventional war, WWII style, within our lifetimes. Right now, we’re fighting people who don’t have shoes, much less body armor. The Belgians have spent the last two decades trying to convince the militaries of the world of the significance of their creation, and none of them have concurred with their assertions.

    .357 Sig is at least a 9mm bullet that’s going very fast. Even if it was an FMJ, the .357 Sig would make a much more effective choice than the 9x19mm. Personally, I have always agreed with the numerous commenters above that the best PDW cartridge is the 7.62 Borchardt/7.63 Mauser/7.62 Tokarev.

  • jdun1911

    The 7.62×25 is far far better then 5.7 round. Ballistic wise the 5.7 is in the general area of the .22 wmr. The running joke is it takes the entire 5.7 magazine to stop the bad guy. Not a good round to have for self defense, IMO.

    I’m sure the ATF knows that Teflon coated the bullets does not increase penetration.

  • Mu

    Matt,

    where do you get the Borchardt as an American design from? Hugo Borchardt, while active in the USA for some time, was a German, who in 1893 worked for a German company in Germany (Loewe, Berlin).

  • belgian

    The FN Five-seveN USG, the upgraded FN Five-seveN IOM “only” costs $1000

    and a correction, the 5.7x28mm is NOT designed to be ineffective, it tumbles quite fast after penetration, so it creates a bigger wound channel than a 9mm or even a .45 auto (both don’t tumble)
    despite this, it still has reasonable penetration depth (wound channel + penetration = large permanent cavity) so there’s a lot of chance you hit vital organs

    about the armor piercing capabilities, a Five-seveN shoots trough standerd NATO kevlar helmets from a distance you can’t even imagine with a 9mm (not to talk about that heavy 45), they shoot through Level IIIA armor, that normally stops 44 mags and 357 sigs, almost the same result as the 5.56x45mm (223 rem)!!

    quick summary of the advantages: it’s very light: (750 gram loaded), 20 round mags, armor piercing (up to level IIIA), good range (50 meters), very fast shooting (test it yourselves!), quick tumbling after penetration(big permanent cavity) and little recoil (half a 9mm para)
    bad points: less penetration than the 9mm para FMJ (due to tumbling effect), very loud (supersonic crack)

    but it is true that it doesn’t fragment, as this is prohibited bij the Genève conventions

  • Matt Groom

    Mu,

    Hugo Borchardt was German born, but moved to the US when he was 14. Living his teenage and early adulthood in the US during the war between the states and the industrial revolution may have had an influence on his thinking. The first firearms company he worked for was the Pioneer Breech-Loading Arms Company, which gave him a technical background in firearms design. He went on to work for Winchester, and later the Sharpes Rifle Company. Were these European companies? I get them confused sometimes.

    He invented his pistol in the US, but couldn’t find any buyers for it here, so he decided to try to sell it to the frequently warring states of Europe.

    Belgian,

    You’re right. I was using a bit of hyperbole when I said it was ‘designed’ to be ineffective when in actuality, its ineffectiveness is a coincidence of its design.

    9mm and .45 WILL tumble in FMJ form if the base of the bullet is heavier than the nose. That’s physics. However, tumbling is a laughably ineffective mechanism for wounding.

    You will note the number of complaints lodged against the AR-15/M-16 over the years concerning wounding. This is especially true of personnel using the M-4 carbine firing the M855/SS109 round. Why? Because the reduced velocity that comes with the shortened barrel reduces terminal effectiveness dramatically because at velocities of below 2800 FPS, the SS109 projectile does not fragment. But it does tumble.

    So, what you have is a bullet of the same diameter, weighing nearly twice as much, being launched from a larger, higher pressure cartridge, from a longer barrel, and producing dramatically more energy failing to stop hostile combatants frequently enough that it has become an unsavory reputation of the entire weapons system, but the 5.7×28 is certainly effective enough, right?

    You also forgot to mention two other distinct disadvantages of the 5.7×28: It’s expensive as hell (weapons and ammo) and the most effective ammunition is not available for sale to civilians who are practically it’s only market.

    Also, my point about shooting through body armor wasn’t that the 5.7×28 couldn’t do it, it was that shooting through body armor is almost entirely unnecessary, since almost nobody wears it who isn’t required to by their chain of command.

  • belgian

    yeah, the 5.56mm is not the best RIFLE cartridge, but mostly it’s used at longer ranges.

    Imagine you a situation where officers face terrorists or criminals wearing body armour (not too difficult to obtain in ex-Warschau Pact countries). The only chance of survival would be a carefully aimed head shot, something most officers are uncapable of doing in stressful situations. Even level IIA armour stops a 9mm, and certainly a 45 auto, level IIIA (most common protection) stops a 44 mag, so the officer wouldn’t stand a chance when he shoots at center mass (standard procedure), bullets just don’t have “knocking-down power”.

    If he would be shooting the 5.7mm round, the bullet would go straight trough (even from 150 meters) and would than start to tumble (as it is a very unstable bullet), having nearly the same chance as an 45 auto to hit vital organs. The 45 or 9mm wouldn’t have done any damage (except for some bruises) in this case. If the officer would place a headshot, it wouldn’t matter which round he would use, they would all kill him.

    I don’t know how many criminals have armour in the US (here it’s sometimes used in bank robberies) but in a modern battlefield it’s not uncommon (look to footage of the war in Georgia, all Russians had body armour). A soldier facing an armored opponent when not able to use his rifle could be saved by this weapon.

  • J.A. James

    A couple of things here.

    What’s the overall length of the projectile? The overall length, minus elastic rebound of penetrated tissue, minus a metric buttload of calculus to derive the actual amount of tissue displaced by the particular shape of the projectile at a particular part of it’s ‘tumble’ in a particular type of tissue, etc. Figure that all out and you get the dimensions of the actual perforation caused by the bullet.

    Remember that you don’t get to count any ‘tumbling’ that takes place between organs, inside of organs, between skin and subcutaneuous fat, between fat and fascia and in clothing before you get to the body at all.

    Now remember your first year college physics and all of those lectures, papers and other documentation put out by everyone from Fackler to modern medical examiners looking to make a name. Remember all of that? Remember how the bullet is documented to rotate roughly 180 degrees and finish it’s penetration tail first. This is a summersault, not a ‘tumble’. It’s half a rotation. That’s all you get from rounds with double and triple the energy of the 5.7 and it’s all you can possibly get from the 5.7 itself.

    It might be a fun range toy. If I had a giant pile money, I’d love to have a suppressed P90 and a chin high pile of ammo to blow off at the range. If I want to have any chance at all of stopping an attacker; be it human, pissed off bobcat or annoyed pit bull; I want to poke a bigger hole in it than you can ever get from a 5.7 projectile no matter what length.

    Now comes my opinion, humble or not, it’s my opinion. The whole P90/5.7/whatever else was a badly thought out solution designed for a problem that has never existed. Yippee, it can shoot through a STANAG armor sample. I can poke a letter opener through a STANAG armor sample if I push hard enough. If I sharpen the letter opener, I can just slash the bejeezus out of the fabric carrier for the rigid components of the STANAG sample and then the notional body behind it.

    For those of us raised in an era when boredom was something to be avoided at all costs, remember back to those times when you solved your boredom by going out into the boonies and shooting your ratty old .22lr? Remember how amazed you were when the rifle went, “PLAT”, and the sound of the bullet hitting the beaten-to-death tailgate from the mid-60s pickup you were using as a target was louder than the sound of the rifle? Remember being weirded out the first time you noticed your .22lr was going through both sides of the tailgate while all of the TV cops and soldiers were safely hiding behind the MUCH thinner metal of the doors on their cop cars and jeeps? Those two layers of steel in that ratty old tailgate offer up just about 200% the resistance to penetration as the single layer of Titanium in the STANAG (CRISAT) test target. (No, I’m not going to ‘show my work’ and write down the math to prove this… that much calculus makes my brain hurt and I don’t make my brain hurt when I can just go to the range and shoot another hole in the ratty tailgate… empiricism uber alles)

    If that .22lr will poke a hole through a more penetration resistant target than the standard used to judge the, “new, better, gotta-have-it, used-in-really-cool-lookin’-guns, pistol/carbine/submachinegun/none-of-the-above”, round, why not go get a .22 WMR, save about $900 of the cost of your 5.7N and just send me the money left over. You’ll get larger holes in your target and eventually I’ll have my big pile of money. Then we can all go to the range and shoot my P90. It’s a win:win if ever there was one.

  • belgian

    remember it’s still a pistol/submachine gun, of course an assault rifle is a better choice, but i don’t know a single pistol that defeats the Five-seveN overall (the chinese QSZ-92 5.8mm and the Glock 17 are imho it’s closest competors)

    Not to speak of the P-90 (only the MP-7 and MP-5 are worth to be compared with it)

    But quality comes with a price (altough a 1911 can cost as much, and it’s no match)

    proper shot placement and penetration will do the trick ALWAYS, bullet diameter SOMETIMES

    so the 5-7 is accurate and penetrates deep, what else do you want?

  • Matt Groom

    Oh, it’s on now, Belgian.

    You think the 1911, which is still built the same way it was 98 years ago, out of steel billet, is no match for a plastic injection molded, delayed blowback pistol with a stamped slide thats covered in cheesy looking plastic? $1000 will get you a world class 1911 which will be the match in accuracy of any FN pistol. Also, the 5.7×28 generates about 268 ft/lbs of muzzle energy with the SS197SR round, vs. 230 grain Hardball which generates 400 ft/lbs of energy, and is a somewhat anemic .45 ACP load by modern standards. Corbon loads a 165 grn hollowpoint that generates 573 ft/lbs of muzzle energy, for example.

    How do I know this? I just chrono’d one today. 1708 FPS out of the Five Seven pistol, average over two, 10-shot strings.

    The way the Five Seven is built, it’s worth MAYBE $400, which leaves me wondering where the other $600 went. I could build that pistol for less money than the magazine sells for, but I wouldn’t then try to sell it for $1000 and then have the audacity to compare it to the “Yankee Fist” which has been on the winning side of at least two dozen wars. It’s also literally the progenitor of nearly every successful pistol design made on Earth since it’s introduction with very few notable exceptions.

    The very notion that the 5.7×28 has better wounding potential than even a 200 grain Truncated cone FMJ .45 auto round seems naive. Just the MEPLAT of a 200 grn TC round would have a larger diameter than ANY .224 bullet, and the fact that it yaws and flips over ONCE during a split second of it’s travel is NOT enough to convince me that the 5.7 is anything but an overpriced and over-hyped TOY.

    Energy is the ability to do work, and the 9×19, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP ALL generate around TWICE THE ENERGY of a 5.7×28 round. The Springfield XDM, which has a better trigger than any Glock I’ve handled, holds 19 rounds in the magazine. The Five Seven holds 20. If we examine the total fire power of the 9mm XDM to the Five Seven, we get 8740 ft/lbs for the XDM using US M882 and 5200 ft/lbs for the Five Seven with one mag. Energy wise, getting hit with one 9×19 is like getting hit by TWO 5.7x28s.

    Oh! But it produces less recoil! Probably because the bullet has less Mass. As much as one tenth the Mass, in fact, but it isn’t recoil-less. No matter how lightly a gun kicks, an untrained person will still flinch when they pull the trigger. They close their eyes, jerk the trigger, and miss. This is only overcome by training. Recoil does not affect accuracy, it effects the shooter. The bullet goes where the gun was pointed when the trigger is pulled. That big muzzle flash isn’t going to help a lousy shooter make that all important shot.

    Follow up shots? That’s really important if you’re firing a bullet that is suitable for raccoons and small dogs, but totally inadequate for the average adult human male. When you fire a big bullet, over 150 grains, that’s been killing humans for over 100 years, then it is less important. The margin for error goes down as the caliber goes up. But you’re right, shot placement is key. You can kill someone with a .177 caliber air rifle if you know what you’re doing, but it’s generally easier for a poor shooter or one that’s under stress to use a cartridge that doesn’t require precise shots or full auto fire to hit vital organs.

    Realistically, a .38 Snub nose produces about as much energy as a 5.7×28, so I’m sure that the amount of energy generated, while not ideal, is adequate. But a .38 Snub nose Revolver is also a damn sight SMALLER than the Five Seven pistol, and oh yeah, about 2.5 times CHEAPER.

    I understand that you have a lot of patriotic loyalty to the product of your homeland, maybe you even had a hand in creating it, but the Five Seven is at best a niche item and more likely a boutique item for people who already own a 1911, Glock, Sig, or Beretta and have no intention of carrying it into harm’s way if they have a choice. The number of police officers who go through their entire career without having to fire or even draw their weapon in the line of duty is surprisingly large, and of the small number of officers who are forced to engage an assailant, the percentage who will need a round which penetrates body armor is painfully small. There is no chance the 5.7 will replace the 9mm, the .40, or the .45… ever.

    So, you’re right. The 5.7×28 is no match to the 1911.

  • J.A. James

    What are the overall dimensions of the 5.7×28 versus those of the .30 carbine? With modern expanding bullets, the 30 carbine is a pretty decent home defense carbine. It might actually make the 57N and P90 envelopes a bit less gadgety.

  • Carl

    I bet the XDM with 19 rounds is bigger than a glock 17. I know the slide and upper part of the frame looks a lot fatter than a Glock for sure. If size is no object you can get a 30 round factory magazine for any 9mm Glock.

    The wounding potential of the 5.7 seems like it would be best measured empirically. Someone call Mythbusters!

    Having armor piercing capability is clearly an advantage. But given that the pistol is a defensive last-ditch weapon, perhaps a non-AP round will still keep people’s heads down long enough to enable you to retreat and live to fight another day…

    It is still utter crap for civilians of course, since they cannot use AP ammo.

  • Matt Groom

    5.7×28 appears to be based on the .30 Carbine, or very close. They have nearly the same base diameter, but the 30 Carbine’s is very slightly bigger (.313″ vs .357″). They have nearly the same overall length, but the .30 is longer (1.59″ vs. 1.68″). The first 5.7×28 cases I ever saw were based on .30 carbine cases which had been turned to size in a lathe. But you can’t chamber a 5.7 pistol in .30 carbine because it wouldn’t work as a blowback. People have always complained about the muzzle blast of the .30 carbine out of various pistols over the years, and it’s loaded to around 38500 psi (PMax is 46412), whereas the 5.7 is loaded to 50038 psi.

  • Belgian

    believe me, I am NOT patriotic at all!!

    but FBI stated that things as “knocking down power” and “stopping power” are a myth! A person only gets stopped by a bullet in the central nervous system. Shots at the center-mass can be lethal, but will only stop the attacker if his spinal cord is hit. Therefor you need penetration.

    The 45 has more kinetic energy, so what? penetration is in relation with kinetic energy, the shape and the area of the bullet. both rounds (45 and 5.7) will get the 13 inches required, the 5-7 with tumbling effect and 45 FMJ. second factor is the permanent cavity, here the 45 scores slightly better. Penetration of clothing and armour is definatly won by the 5-7.

    Mag capacity is important on the battlefield when engaging multiple targets in fast changing situations.
    I visited the FN Herstal factory once, and I’m sure that if those guns resist the torture test there (no mather if they are synthetic or not) they won’t jam in almost ANY condition.

    but you’re right, what would I take for self-defence: definately a Glock or a Sig 9mm. Civilians have nothing to do with this gun, without the ss190 round it is like a pub without beer (as we would say in Belgium 😉 )
    it IS a military weapon, as FNH is a military fabrique.

    so if you aren’t authorized to buy ss190 rounds, you should only buy it if you are an expert marksman, otherwise, I would take a 9mm Sig if you have that much money to spend, Glock 17 is also fine.

  • Matt Groom

    Very well, Belgian. I can accept that it might be a decent choice for military purposes, especially considering the generally inferior design of most military FMJ pistol bullets in any caliber. Cost is not an issue for government, as fiscal responsibility is a totally alien concept when spending other peoples money. This is especially true of the US Government under the current administration and often the DOD under any administration.

    I recently spoke with a Florida Highway Patrolman who chose the .45 for Concealed Carry, but was issued a .40 for service. While he personally favored the .45, he greatly preferred the 9mm for service work since it held more rounds in the magazine, which he considered more important than potential lethality. He absolutely HATED the .40 S&W cartridge, as he considered the loss of magazine capacity a greater threat to officer safety than slightly reduced muzzle energy.

    9mm with modern JHP rounds is no slouch in the muzzle energy department, and I personally consider the 9mm with JHP to be perfectly adequate for self-defense, but I prefer revolvers for their accuracy, ease of fired case collection (for reloading), and their total reliability with bullets of almost any design (for bullet casting). That being said, while I would prefer a revolver for 98% of shooting scenarios, combat is an area where I would greatly prefer a premium on capacity over potential accuracy or even stopping power. A wounded enemy is better than a healthy enemy, and even something that doesn’t kill you will make you keep your head down if launched in your direction.

    Pistols are defensive tools exclusively, and if you were in combat, and fortune had dealt you a pistol as your only means of defense, then I would want as many bullets in the magazine as I could get, no matter what caliber they were. Escape and evasion is the goal of a soldier who is issued a pistol who finds themselves over run, and that means that range and capacity are very important considerations.

  • Brandon

    The 197sr is a anemic varmint round. People are getting over 2100 fps when they reload their own rounds with the 28 grain bullet from the 195lf round, and even the 40 grain round from the 197sr. To take advantage of this gun and use it to its potential you need to reload your own ammo for it. There is ammo on the market that shoots 2600 fps out of this gun available to civilians.

  • Matt

    LOL I like people who compare the 5.7x28mm to the .22WMR. Any velocities stated for .22WMR are from 24-26″ barrels. The only advertised velocity i found for .22WMR out of a short barrel was 1400 fps from a 6.5″ Barrel for a .40gr load. for those who like to argue energy and what not, that’s 174 ft lbs.. the anemic ss197 from a 5″ barrel produces 100 ft lbs more..

  • Gargamelord

    I dunno, I really like this gun. I’ve seen what it does to a phone book and other things. As far as self defense, 20 fast rounds that don’t kick too much seems pretty good for defense to me. And that high velocity is geat for long range accuracy, sure you could do the same thing with an AR-15 but can it fit in your pants?
    As for stopping power, has anyone tried to use a round such as the “varmint grenade” for self defense? I really wonder what kind of damage that puppy puts on a human sized target.

  • Joe

    I can’t help but laugh at the guy that thinks you can get a quality short-barreled ar-15 with a good red dot for the price of a five seven. I am already $1300 into my SBR, and thats without BUIS, Optic, or the $200 ATF tax. I paid $950 for my Five-seveN, although I am in the middle of fitting a mini open-sight red dot to it, which takes some custom milling, a little bit of time, and some greebacks. But I plan to be well over the $2500 mark when my ar-15 SBR is complete, with optic, sights, lights, lasers, bells and whistles!

    As far as the penetrating capabilities of the 5.7×28, I have shot every kind of handgun ammunition (except maybe some obscure round thats not even made anymore) at level III balistic glass, and every round except the SS192 was stopped. The SS192 went right through in an identical path of a 5.56×45 (FMJ 115gr.) The SS197SR round penetrated further into the glass then any other round.

    And like my main man said, 20 fast, low recoil, penetrating rounds, all in a light, easy to wield package do pretty well in the self-defense department. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not partial to only the Five seveN for a sidearm. I’ve got my glock 20 and 29 (10mm) that I use for my main sidearm and backup that I love to death. But the Five seveN is one sweet handgun!

  • wwshooter

    Great discussion, but aren’t we overlooking a survivalist view? Now, there are lots of great & effective guns out there, and if you’re a reloader with ample supplies of cases, primers, powder and lead; you’ve got it made. But have you checked the availability of .380, 9mm, or .45 ammo lately? How about .223 or .308? Cost?

    So what’s a poor yuppie to do? I bought the Five-seveN because it takes the same rounds as my PS90 (w/Eotech, four 50 rd. mags, & 200 yd. “good enough” accuracy). The Five-seveN pistol is a relatively easy “carry” gun, and my wife & 11 year old daughter can both outshoot me with it, and me using my 30 year old Colt Commander that I qualified “expert” with (at the range, not shooting at each other, yet-haha!) . When Obamarama was nominated, I bought the PS90 with 5 cases of 2000 rounds at a gun show for under four grand. Plus I can currently order ammo for it all day long from several internet dealers for less than 30 cents a shot, and guess what; they have it IN STOCK!!!
    Not that the world is going to H in a handbasket or anything, but if I’m on the run with my loved ones, I’m taking my FN’s & ammo, and leaving the .308, .223, .45, 9mm, & .380 guns behind for the sake of simplicity. I’ll probably take a 12 gauge too, as I have been able to stock up on 12 g birdshot, 000, and slugs; and I’ll take the Mod 70 and what ammo I have left for killing food: but I ain’t buying no more guns that I can’t get ammo for. My favorite local gunshop has been doing $8-10K daily firearms sales for 9 months now, but they limit each customer to ONE box of cartridges until the ammo “shortage” is over. I’m bettin’ that within two years… if you ain’t got ’em already, you ain’t gettin’ any more bullets unless you makes ’em yoself.

  • Really, all you guys think 5.7×28 is the same (for ballistic purposes) as the 7.62×25mm Tok or .22 Mag? REALLY, It is so not. It is more efficient and much better at its job then the other two.

    Math, do some math, study the research on penetration, over penetration and learn a force calculation.

    Take ammo X, fire it at something. Measure the you can calculate the newtons of force that it hits the front of the target. Measure the speed it exits the target. Calculate the force that has. Subtract the two. That is how much force was transfered to the target. Ie; “stopping power”. Example, 44 Mag: files with the potential force of 8 Newtons (approx), hits your target, the round does not expand, and exits your target at 320 meter per second (approx). Thus only 1.6 Newtons were transferred to your target and the 44 Mag becomes no more effective against soft targets then the 5.7×28 round

  • Stewart P

    So heres the poop guys, I own my own custom built(by me) 1911 tweaked GI sleeper, a STi LS9, KharP9, and the Five-seveN. Each has their purpose, and thats why I have all of them. Machines are purpose built, and a pistol or rifle is only a michine simply put. I enjoy each gun and love each for its inherent abilities. My $299 GI 45 is now a bulseye whore at 30-50 feet. Great for the usual daily gunfight. I couldnt miss if I tried for between the eyes and were bling my self. . SO what? Nice for showing off indoors at the range. MY nines are both as impressive at about the same distance out to 50 feet. But again so what? the .45 is tremendously heavy when loaded with its extended 10 round single stack mag. Horrible for carry. My nines while designed for carry and much lighter but just have a small capacity. So the issues are Weight, capacity, and size. Now I admit that the 57 is close in size to my 45 but it’s a feather evev when loaded. I have the normally included 3x20rd mags, but also purchased the ProMag 30rd mags x3 also. Over all I would take my 57 as the ultimate carry. My 57 will shoot very, very tight groups at so far as I ve tested, out to 55 yards while retaining almost all of the initial kinetic energy as it had left the muzzle. I promise all of you my 9’s and 45 cannot come slose to this as proven by bulled drop at that distance. The 57 is 21st century tech and my choice as the ultimate and best of both worlds. Punch and accuracy and distance with maintained stopping power. Conclusion, .45 in the nightstand, 9mm for carry and FN57 for everything else listed under SHTF. That goes for myAR57 11″ pistol also which holds a full 50 rounds on the top rail in a sweet p90 mag with bottom ejection. It too is flawless, accurate, and easily 110% on reliability. Definately a grab and go weapon of choice for me also.

    One last thought. Remember that Army guy who shot and killed all those folks on base, and wounded that lady cop before she took him out? Can any body guess at what very effective killing weapon he used to whack all those folks on base? Anyone? If you have to reload thats when you get your ticket punched out permanently. This guy on base never did reload once, he just kept shooting and shootin and shootin and shootin, with graveyard dead bodies falling everywhere. It was the Five-seveN pistol using only ss197 Blue tiped Vmax rounds. FN actually recomends the SS195 Hollowpoint, ( I have actuall spoken with Bob and Tim in the LE repairs office via phone regarding this) all for some newly added expansion and the usual cavity sommersault the round is well known for. This is a gut ripper, and a head exploder and either easily placed shot will do it in one. It is the very best siuted ammo for civilian use since 99.99% of all civilians dont use body armor. If in the military then its ss190 for you. Either way the weapons system designed by FNH is truly advanced and very well designed and executed. If you a nay sayer, I place decent odds youve never shot one. So untill you do stop reading this, and got to you local gunrange and rent yourself one!

  • FlyNCowboy

    All of the above aside, ATF, FBI HRT, and US Secret Service choose the FiveSeveN as their sidearm of choice. That says everything you need to know. And no they don’t carry with SS190 ammo.

  • Ian MacSloan

    Would the five-seven be effective for defense against 4-legged predators in the back country (cougars, black bears). I’ve been carrying a .40 XDm but am intrigued with the specs on the five-seven.
    Thanks for any tips/examples/experiences.
    RedHog

  • Josh B

    I love my five-seven. I have a 40 cal, 357, 9, 380, and others but this is the best one to actually shoot. I don’t “carry” it however, since I prefer my more compact 380. But it sure is the best gun to go shoot, in fact I’m going tomorrow. My Dad uses his scoped AR15 and I use this gun and we have similar target results. I just love it and can’t wait til tomorrow.

  • Gary50

    to all you critics of the five seven……shoot it before you knock it. Just because you cant afford a piece of remarkable technology doesn’t mean its not a great. Mine is fitted with a trijicon red dot and I can comfortably shoot it at 50 yds I have 11 other handguns and the only other one I can say that about is my scoped xframe 50 cal. Try it before you knock it

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  • With all due respect to the “ballistic experts” above, your looking at this cartridge all wrong! Think 5.56/.223, and go from there, this cartridge is dependent on velocity to do its job, not bullet weight. And I too enjoy the Tokarev round too.
    But I like st the 5.7 from a different angle, backyard varmint/vermin control! This round has great possibilities for taking out fox, groundhog, raccoon, skunk, hell even coyote! All without the problems of over penetration, are extremely loud muzzle blasts! The carbine could stretch out past 100yds. on the smaller critters and the handgun is just about perfect for nailing a vegetable garden raider!
    Can it be used for defense? Sure, it still launches a bullet and bullets DO HURT! But I think it is a better short range varminter for us civies…at least till one of the big three ammo makers get on board with this round and give us a decent bonded bullet for penetration AND expansion!
    Plus it’s just a plain nifty round too boot!