Comments on: Interesting placement of M16 carry handle http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/07/06/interesting-placement-of-m16-carry-handle/ Firearms not Politics Fri, 10 Feb 2012 23:10:59 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: priest http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/07/06/interesting-placement-of-m16-carry-handle/comment-page-1/#comment-86458 priest Wed, 08 Feb 2012 22:03:03 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6997#comment-86458 you gotta check this out, then...... the first picture is TOTALLY staged, but that guy has a 22 inch upper and a bushnell 9 power mildot scope on an M4 lower. http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p115/PriestFoxley/380942_10150401433677982_558122981_8588889_259218530_n.jpg the other one is the same dude, with a ten inch short barrel, with a nordic muzzle brake on it. http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p115/PriestFoxley/400242_10150474635422982_558122981_8869418_1896707573_n.jpg Guess someone figured it out. you gotta check this out, then…… the first picture is TOTALLY staged, but that guy has a 22 inch upper and a bushnell 9 power mildot scope on an M4 lower.
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p115/PriestFoxley/380942_10150401433677982_558122981_8588889_259218530_n.jpg

the other one is the same dude, with a ten inch short barrel, with a nordic muzzle brake on it.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p115/PriestFoxley/400242_10150474635422982_558122981_8869418_1896707573_n.jpg

Guess someone figured it out.

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]]> By: Ben http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/07/06/interesting-placement-of-m16-carry-handle/comment-page-1/#comment-86297 Ben Tue, 07 Feb 2012 20:58:00 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6997#comment-86297 Its terrible that uncle sam puts that burden on our already burden troops for a 60$ item when he so happily blows 60-650$ a minute to run a F14D (that's simple fuel cost). Its too bad more units are not allowed to simply return their upper to the armory and replace it with one they bought on their own (within limits. No Model 1 uppers with UTG scopes). If I was going over I'd want a Noveske and the aimpoint/3x magnifier combo (I'd also say a LWRC upper but a piston system would require different parts then the parts system is likely to have so better stick to DI). I'm sure it would cause some logistics problems but we should be able to stomach that to give our guys better stuff. Personally I think we should do like the swiss and issue the guy a rifle and its his from that point forward, forever (he goes home with it). Sure it would be a MG but just loose the 86 MG idiocy and make a "free" stamp for solders taking their weapons home. Its terrible that uncle sam puts that burden on our already burden troops for a 60$ item when he so happily blows 60-650$ a minute to run a F14D (that’s simple fuel cost).

Its too bad more units are not allowed to simply return their upper to the armory and replace it with one they bought on their own (within limits. No Model 1 uppers with UTG scopes). If I was going over I’d want a Noveske and the aimpoint/3x magnifier combo (I’d also say a LWRC upper but a piston system would require different parts then the parts system is likely to have so better stick to DI). I’m sure it would cause some logistics problems but we should be able to stomach that to give our guys better stuff.

Personally I think we should do like the swiss and issue the guy a rifle and its his from that point forward, forever (he goes home with it). Sure it would be a MG but just loose the 86 MG idiocy and make a “free” stamp for solders taking their weapons home.

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]]> By: charles222 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/07/06/interesting-placement-of-m16-carry-handle/comment-page-1/#comment-85877 charles222 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 23:56:20 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6997#comment-85877 The A4 is exceptionally forward-heavy. The stock doesn't begin to balance out the rail system. The A4 is exceptionally forward-heavy. The stock doesn’t begin to balance out the rail system.

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]]> By: Jarrod http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/07/06/interesting-placement-of-m16-carry-handle/comment-page-1/#comment-52152 Jarrod Thu, 06 Jan 2011 20:12:27 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6997#comment-52152 I was an infantryman for 10 years and have served in both Afghanistan and Iraq. We started getting the BUIS on my 4th tour. Before that we were always required to carry our carrying handle with us. I think it was typically up to the commander. We at one point had a commander who required us to put our optics on the forward rail and keep the carrying handle in the normal place. Usually the carrying handle was just tied off in a butt-pack or somewhere. I was an infantryman for 10 years and have served in both Afghanistan and Iraq. We started getting the BUIS on my 4th tour. Before that we were always required to carry our carrying handle with us. I think it was typically up to the commander. We at one point had a commander who required us to put our optics on the forward rail and keep the carrying handle in the normal place. Usually the carrying handle was just tied off in a butt-pack or somewhere.

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]]> By: Priest http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/07/06/interesting-placement-of-m16-carry-handle/comment-page-1/#comment-27775 Priest Mon, 01 Mar 2010 02:38:35 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6997#comment-27775 I am a 21B with 3/1 STB, out of fort bliss. For a while, we had standard carry handles, and we were required to keep them with the weapon at all times. an easy way to mount issued optics and keep the rail on hand was to use the setup you see. further instructions included requirements like paracording optics, accessories, and any serialed items to the weapon, in case they fell off. this is not an example of anything cool. it is an example of silly ass rules making a soldiers life a touch harder. Happily, they go away after a month or two of deployment, when 1SGs and CPTs see how hard it is to operate an M4 festooned with extra useless crap. I am a 21B with 3/1 STB, out of fort bliss. For a while, we had standard carry handles, and we were required to keep them with the weapon at all times.

an easy way to mount issued optics and keep the rail on hand was to use the setup you see.

further instructions included requirements like paracording optics, accessories, and any serialed items to the weapon, in case they fell off.

this is not an example of anything cool. it is an example of silly ass rules making a soldiers life a touch harder. Happily, they go away after a month or two of deployment, when 1SGs and CPTs see how hard it is to operate an M4 festooned with extra useless crap.

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]]> By: Mark http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/07/06/interesting-placement-of-m16-carry-handle/comment-page-1/#comment-22830 Mark Tue, 29 Dec 2009 13:39:13 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6997#comment-22830 Here's another way of doing it: http://denverpost.slideshowpro.com/albums/001/496/album-75450/cache/guttenfelder44.sJPG_920_590_0_95_1_50_50.sJPG?1256922711 Same idea, I presume, but less unbalancing, I'd say. Here’s another way of doing it: http://denverpost.slideshowpro.com/albums/001/496/album-75450/cache/guttenfelder44.sJPG_920_590_0_95_1_50_50.sJPG?1256922711 Same idea, I presume, but less unbalancing, I’d say.

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]]> By: Texas_Dave http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/07/06/interesting-placement-of-m16-carry-handle/comment-page-1/#comment-21705 Texas_Dave Wed, 16 Dec 2009 01:40:57 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6997#comment-21705 hmmmmmmmm....looks to me like with an inexpensive picantinny plate screwed into the top of the handle as if to mount a scope, it would make a great side-mounted flashlight or laser holder . Since it already comes with the rifle, it mounts tightly in two places, it's proven by history to be tougher than $#!T, and it can also serve as a backup sight if the primary goes down....why the heck not use it to mount some Tommy-tacticool stuff to further weigh-down your M-4gery. hmmmmmmmm….looks to me like with an inexpensive picantinny plate screwed into the top of the handle as if to mount a scope, it would make a great side-mounted flashlight or laser holder .

Since it already comes with the rifle, it mounts tightly in two places, it’s proven by history to be tougher than $#!T, and it can also serve as a backup sight if the primary goes down….why the heck not use it to mount some Tommy-tacticool stuff to further weigh-down your M-4gery.

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]]> By: MacK Smith http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/07/06/interesting-placement-of-m16-carry-handle/comment-page-1/#comment-21636 MacK Smith Tue, 15 Dec 2009 07:12:11 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6997#comment-21636 We also did the same thing with our M4's while in Iraq... we were responsible for the Carry handle on our A3's, and if you lost that SOB... Though I did have my guys use it as a dirty CQB aiming device if their M68 failed (attached to the strong side of the rail system) as others had mentioned. We also did the same thing with our M4′s while in Iraq… we were responsible for the Carry handle on our A3′s, and if you lost that SOB…

Though I did have my guys use it as a dirty CQB aiming device if their M68 failed (attached to the strong side of the rail system) as others had mentioned.

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]]> By: Tyler http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/07/06/interesting-placement-of-m16-carry-handle/comment-page-1/#comment-15662 Tyler Tue, 06 Oct 2009 01:22:42 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6997#comment-15662 That's what I did in Iraq 3 years ago... just had it there so i wouldn't lose it <a href="http://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a361/DasBeck/?action=view&current=BECK.jpg" rel="nofollow"></a> That’s what I did in Iraq 3 years ago… just had it there so i wouldn’t lose it

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]]> By: Bill http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/07/06/interesting-placement-of-m16-carry-handle/comment-page-1/#comment-12844 Bill Tue, 04 Aug 2009 00:21:17 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6997#comment-12844 Too tired to read above comments, speaking as a motor T marine tho, I will say that's the most practical thing you can do as not every marine is given a catalog inventory of components to slap on their rifles such as back up irons; you get an m16a4 or an m4 (if you are not still getting an A2 due to your MOS) and that is it. And when infantry or another combat oriented MOS unit is out in the field for long periods of time not conveniently located near a computer to order a new Trijicon, because we all know the armory will not be replacing your ACOG anytime soon, yes, you tend to come up with some stupidly simple things to make sure you will still have iron sights when everything goes to hell like it usually does. And I will be damned if I'm buyin my own flip sights. Just sayin. Too tired to read above comments, speaking as a motor T marine tho, I will say that’s the most practical thing you can do as not every marine is given a catalog inventory of components to slap on their rifles such as back up irons; you get an m16a4 or an m4 (if you are not still getting an A2 due to your MOS) and that is it.

And when infantry or another combat oriented MOS unit is out in the field for long periods of time not conveniently located near a computer to order a new Trijicon, because we all know the armory will not be replacing your ACOG anytime soon, yes, you tend to come up with some stupidly simple things to make sure you will still have iron sights when everything goes to hell like it usually does. And I will be damned if I’m buyin my own flip sights.

Just sayin.

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]]> By: Jules http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/07/06/interesting-placement-of-m16-carry-handle/comment-page-1/#comment-11968 Jules Tue, 14 Jul 2009 03:35:31 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6997#comment-11968 The Marine Corps does issue BUIS, though not to all units, until supply catches up; there are after all standards relating to the issue of the newer M4's and M16A4's that have flat top receivers. However, not all BUIS available are issued or used when issued; as said, proper eye relief of the Trijicon ACOG\RCO inhibits proper mounting of the BUIS. The carry handle is not mounted on the rails as a sidesaddle back up sight, and would be useless as one for several reasons. Some units, for example ETT's managed by MEF following training at the FATG\FATC, issue both an RCO and M68 CCO to each individual, as well as MATECH BUIS; the individual configuration and use of each is up to the individual or unit SOP. As others have said, attaching the carry handle to the RAS is primarily for accountability\positive control. A few use it to augment a VFG. The rollup\rollout kit that carries rail covers and such has a space for the VFG in the more recent versions. Attempting to fire one's weapons in an accurate manner following a greater then 45 degree angle, even with sidesaddle sights, is not a viable option. The Marine Corps does issue BUIS, though not to all units, until supply catches up; there are after all standards relating to the issue of the newer M4′s and M16A4′s that have flat top receivers.

However, not all BUIS available are issued or used when issued; as said, proper eye relief of the Trijicon ACOG\RCO inhibits proper mounting of the BUIS.

The carry handle is not mounted on the rails as a sidesaddle back up sight, and would be useless as one for several reasons.

Some units, for example ETT’s managed by MEF following training at the FATG\FATC, issue both an RCO and M68 CCO to each individual, as well as MATECH BUIS; the individual configuration and use of each is up to the individual or unit SOP.

As others have said, attaching the carry handle to the RAS is primarily for accountability\positive control. A few use it to augment a VFG. The rollup\rollout kit that carries rail covers and such has a space for the VFG in the more recent versions.

Attempting to fire one’s weapons in an accurate manner following a greater then 45 degree angle, even with sidesaddle sights, is not a viable option.

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]]> By: Tyler http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/07/06/interesting-placement-of-m16-carry-handle/comment-page-1/#comment-11930 Tyler Sun, 12 Jul 2009 03:53:07 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6997#comment-11930 The Marine Corps does not issue back up iron sights other then the carrying handle. I really dont see a reason why they should it would just be something more to lose and they would not fit behind the Acog or any atvantages over the carrying handle. The Marine Corps does not issue back up iron sights other then the carrying handle. I really dont see a reason why they should it would just be something more to lose and they would not fit behind the Acog or any atvantages over the carrying handle.

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]]> By: ChuckMK23 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/07/06/interesting-placement-of-m16-carry-handle/comment-page-1/#comment-11861 ChuckMK23 Fri, 10 Jul 2009 01:14:55 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6997#comment-11861 The photo show's a Marine with a 20" barrel M16A4. Attaching the carry handle to the side rail of the RAS is actually SOP in many units in the Marine Corps for Marines that carry a 20" full size rifle with ACOG mounted to the flat top. Also if the picture was more detailed, you would see that it's paracorded to the rifle as well. The photo show’s a Marine with a 20″ barrel M16A4. Attaching the carry handle to the side rail of the RAS is actually SOP in many units in the Marine Corps for Marines that carry a 20″ full size rifle with ACOG mounted to the flat top.

Also if the picture was more detailed, you would see that it’s paracorded to the rifle as well.

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]]> By: Fiftycal http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/07/06/interesting-placement-of-m16-carry-handle/comment-page-1/#comment-11796 Fiftycal Wed, 08 Jul 2009 21:16:05 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6997#comment-11796 I thought it was so he could turn the rifle on the side, "gangsta style" and still have a chance of hitting something. I thought it was so he could turn the rifle on the side, “gangsta style” and still have a chance of hitting something.

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]]> By: david http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/07/06/interesting-placement-of-m16-carry-handle/comment-page-1/#comment-11771 david Wed, 08 Jul 2009 13:29:41 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6997#comment-11771 I'm currently active duty, and sure enough, he's probably doing it so he won't lose it. Most Marines in my unit are issued the M16A4 with the Matech BUIS & and ACOG, and the carry handle can be requested (but is not required, and they actually don't keep track of them.) In regards to using it as a back-up sight, it'd be incredibly difficult because of the length of the stock vs. the size of the aperture(s). And to be honest, not everyone thinks of having a backup sighting system, such as iron sights, because not everyone is a gun enthusiast. I’m currently active duty, and sure enough, he’s probably doing it so he won’t lose it. Most Marines in my unit are issued the M16A4 with the Matech BUIS & and ACOG, and the carry handle can be requested (but is not required, and they actually don’t keep track of them.) In regards to using it as a back-up sight, it’d be incredibly difficult because of the length of the stock vs. the size of the aperture(s). And to be honest, not everyone thinks of having a backup sighting system, such as iron sights, because not everyone is a gun enthusiast.

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]]> By: rob-sgttype http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/07/06/interesting-placement-of-m16-carry-handle/comment-page-1/#comment-11754 rob-sgttype Wed, 08 Jul 2009 07:18:18 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6997#comment-11754 I am pretty sure the carry handle is just there so it doesn't get lost (it's on backwards and would need a second point of reference for any type of aiming). There is no way to tell lefty or righty in this picture, that could be a transition to the left side to provide a slimmer profile for the cover available (or more likely for a more comfortable lean into those sandbags). It's a shit place to have your backup sights, but its one of those things where as soon as you don't have it available, your optics will stop working. I am pretty sure the carry handle is just there so it doesn’t get lost (it’s on backwards and would need a second point of reference for any type of aiming). There is no way to tell lefty or righty in this picture, that could be a transition to the left side to provide a slimmer profile for the cover available (or more likely for a more comfortable lean into those sandbags). It’s a shit place to have your backup sights, but its one of those things where as soon as you don’t have it available, your optics will stop working.

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]]> By: Bolter http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/07/06/interesting-placement-of-m16-carry-handle/comment-page-1/#comment-11750 Bolter Wed, 08 Jul 2009 04:19:08 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6997#comment-11750 There is a company selling BUIS that are intended to be mounted on one of the lateral rails, to allow you to turn the rifle 90 degrees and fire in a pinch. Just can't locate it right now. Seems I've seen it in Shotgun News or Small Arms Review...same idea here maybe? BTW the guy is a leftie and turning his rifle with mag facing away would make sense (if optics were down). Word from Marines and Soldiers who have BTDT appreciated... Bolter There is a company selling BUIS that are intended to be mounted on one of the lateral rails, to allow you to turn the rifle 90 degrees and fire in a pinch. Just can’t locate it right now. Seems I’ve seen it in Shotgun News or Small Arms Review…same idea here maybe? BTW the guy is a leftie and turning his rifle with mag facing away would make sense (if optics were down). Word from Marines and Soldiers who have BTDT appreciated…
Bolter

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]]> By: Larry http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/07/06/interesting-placement-of-m16-carry-handle/comment-page-1/#comment-11749 Larry Wed, 08 Jul 2009 04:06:11 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6997#comment-11749 Some optics are fairly large and don't leave much room for a BUIS (rear iron). For example the ACOG, the EOTECH with the magnifier flip attachment, the M145, and the Specter DR would all block or inhibit the rear iron from effectively being clipped on the upper reciever. We would use a paint pen to mark out the rail number that our optics would attach to, and another color paint pen to mark out where the BUIS would go. This Marine using a carrying handle on his rail could be as simple as not having enough flip sites on hand to issue. Some guys would put the carrying handle in a pouch. Some optics are fairly large and don’t leave much room for a BUIS (rear iron). For example the ACOG, the EOTECH with the magnifier flip attachment, the M145, and the Specter DR would all block or inhibit the rear iron from effectively being clipped on the upper reciever.

We would use a paint pen to mark out the rail number that our optics would attach to, and another color paint pen to mark out where the BUIS would go.

This Marine using a carrying handle on his rail could be as simple as not having enough flip sites on hand to issue.

Some guys would put the carrying handle in a pouch.

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]]> By: Carl http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/07/06/interesting-placement-of-m16-carry-handle/comment-page-1/#comment-11739 Carl Wed, 08 Jul 2009 00:11:27 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6997#comment-11739 KP, yes, but why bother carrying it around if you are not using it? Just turn it in to to the armory or wherever you got it. I'm sure the average soldier has enough gear to carry already without adding things he has no intention of ever using. More weight means earlier fatigue which will get you killed sooner, in the long run. KP, yes, but why bother carrying it around if you are not using it? Just turn it in to to the armory or wherever you got it.
I’m sure the average soldier has enough gear to carry already without adding things he has no intention of ever using. More weight means earlier fatigue which will get you killed sooner, in the long run.

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/07/06/interesting-placement-of-m16-carry-handle/comment-page-1/#comment-11731 Steve Tue, 07 Jul 2009 23:24:35 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6997#comment-11731 wow! I did not realize the A4 weighed so much more. wow! I did not realize the A4 weighed so much more.

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