Comments on: Wooden AR-15 stock patented! http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/16/wooden-ar-15-stock-patented/ Firearms not Politics Fri, 10 Feb 2012 23:24:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Dave K http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/16/wooden-ar-15-stock-patented/comment-page-1/#comment-11891 Dave K Fri, 10 Jul 2009 21:14:25 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6746#comment-11891 The USPTO doesn't check this stuff, they only search their own system and then issue, if it goes to court it will be shot down. It's only meant to scare people into not doing it. The USPTO doesn’t check this stuff, they only search their own system and then issue, if it goes to court it will be shot down. It’s only meant to scare people into not doing it.

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]]> By: Daniel E. Watters http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/16/wooden-ar-15-stock-patented/comment-page-1/#comment-11135 Daniel E. Watters Sat, 20 Jun 2009 23:41:45 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6746#comment-11135 Yes, this is a patent application, not an issued patent. Regarding OA vs. ZM/ParaOrd: Robert and Brian Schuetz's patented operating system is different from the Allan Zitta design. The Zitta design uses an extended carrier key mated to a short gas tube. The recoil spring surrounds the portion of the carrier key forward of the upper receiver. Judging from Patent #5,448,940, Schuetz's design appears to use a conventional AR-15 carrier key and gas tube. The big tube above the handguard is not part of the gas system. Instead, it only contains the recoil spring and its guide rod. Yes, this is a patent application, not an issued patent.

Regarding OA vs. ZM/ParaOrd: Robert and Brian Schuetz’s patented operating system is different from the Allan Zitta design. The Zitta design uses an extended carrier key mated to a short gas tube. The recoil spring surrounds the portion of the carrier key forward of the upper receiver. Judging from Patent #5,448,940, Schuetz’s design appears to use a conventional AR-15 carrier key and gas tube. The big tube above the handguard is not part of the gas system. Instead, it only contains the recoil spring and its guide rod.

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]]> By: mmathers http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/16/wooden-ar-15-stock-patented/comment-page-1/#comment-11002 mmathers Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:35:47 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6746#comment-11002 I wonder how this patent application will fare since the Grant Early has been peddling his U-15 stock for YEARS now... http://www.californiarifles.com/ I wonder how this patent application will fare since the Grant Early has been peddling his U-15 stock for YEARS now…
http://www.californiarifles.com/

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]]> By: Roughedge http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/16/wooden-ar-15-stock-patented/comment-page-1/#comment-10968 Roughedge Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:14:27 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6746#comment-10968 They made at least one rifle, the OA-93 Carbine. http://www.impactguns.com/store/OLY-OA93CARB.html http://www.quarterbore.com/ar15m16/oa93.htm They made at least one rifle, the OA-93 Carbine.
http://www.impactguns.com/store/OLY-OA93CARB.html
http://www.quarterbore.com/ar15m16/oa93.htm

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]]> By: tg http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/16/wooden-ar-15-stock-patented/comment-page-1/#comment-10955 tg Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:19:48 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6746#comment-10955 I believe the first "spring forward" system was back in the 80's and was called the RHINO. Don't think it generated much interest back then. TG I believe the first “spring forward” system was back in the 80′s and was called the RHINO. Don’t think it generated much interest back then. TG

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]]> By: Veeshir http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/16/wooden-ar-15-stock-patented/comment-page-1/#comment-10942 Veeshir Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:03:46 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6746#comment-10942 That's not a patent, that's a patent application. That’s not a patent, that’s a patent application.

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/16/wooden-ar-15-stock-patented/comment-page-1/#comment-10920 Steve Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:57:04 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6746#comment-10920 Overload, it is a term I have only seen applied to AR-15 rifles. I suppose any rifle with a main spring forward of the bolt carrier could be called a forward recoil system. Overload, it is a term I have only seen applied to AR-15 rifles. I suppose any rifle with a main spring forward of the bolt carrier could be called a forward recoil system.

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]]> By: Overload http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/16/wooden-ar-15-stock-patented/comment-page-1/#comment-10919 Overload Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:54:15 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6746#comment-10919 The Sig556 Classic, and other models, have a folding stock. Does that mean it also has a forward recoil system? What about the FN SCAR? It has a folding stock also. The Sig556 Classic, and other models, have a folding stock. Does that mean it also has a forward recoil system? What about the FN SCAR? It has a folding stock also.

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/16/wooden-ar-15-stock-patented/comment-page-1/#comment-10918 Steve Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:42:17 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6746#comment-10918 Roughedge, interesting, I did not know that. I did not see any rifles listed that use the forward recoil system, do they exist? Roughedge, interesting, I did not know that. I did not see any rifles listed that use the forward recoil system, do they exist?

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]]> By: Roughedge http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/16/wooden-ar-15-stock-patented/comment-page-1/#comment-10917 Roughedge Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:39:03 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6746#comment-10917 Olympic Arms has had a forward recoil system for the AR platform for at least 15 years. http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=37&category_id=8&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37 Neither Para or Yankee Hill/ZM came up with anything new here. Olympic Arms has had a forward recoil system for the AR platform for at least 15 years.

http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=37&category_id=8&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37

Neither Para or Yankee Hill/ZM came up with anything new here.

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/16/wooden-ar-15-stock-patented/comment-page-1/#comment-10912 Steve Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:19:28 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6746#comment-10912 Thomas, yes I think para bought the design. It is the same gun, just different manufacturer. Thomas, yes I think para bought the design. It is the same gun, just different manufacturer.

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]]> By: Thomas http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/16/wooden-ar-15-stock-patented/comment-page-1/#comment-10911 Thomas Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:17:49 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6746#comment-10911 Actually the Para Tactical Target Rifle is not the only AR pattern rifle to use a forward recoil system. True, para is one of the few that makes them but theres's also Z-M weapons who have made them long before Para. In fact, I've often wondered if para bought Z-M's design. And of course just about every dedicated .22lr upper or .22lr conversion would work with the stock also. Actually the Para Tactical Target Rifle is not the only AR pattern rifle to use a forward recoil system. True, para is one of the few that makes them but theres’s also Z-M weapons who have made them long before Para. In fact, I’ve often wondered if para bought Z-M’s design. And of course just about every dedicated .22lr upper or .22lr conversion would work with the stock also.

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]]> By: tg http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/16/wooden-ar-15-stock-patented/comment-page-1/#comment-10904 tg Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:35:15 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6746#comment-10904 go back about 20 years and you will find that Springfield Armory (Genesso) offered both wood stocks and handguards. go back about 20 years and you will find that Springfield Armory (Genesso) offered both wood stocks and handguards.

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]]> By: Erik http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/16/wooden-ar-15-stock-patented/comment-page-1/#comment-10902 Erik Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:27:17 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6746#comment-10902 That is excellent... especially for us out here in the PRK. Another option for us to use standard mag release configs instead of this BS bullet button stuff... That is excellent… especially for us out here in the PRK. Another option for us to use standard mag release configs instead of this BS bullet button stuff…

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]]> By: B Woodman http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/16/wooden-ar-15-stock-patented/comment-page-1/#comment-10901 B Woodman Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:30:21 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6746#comment-10901 Any idea how strong the setup is? It looks somewhat weak at the point where the grip/stock connects to the receiver behind the trigger guard. Any idea how strong the setup is? It looks somewhat weak at the point where the grip/stock connects to the receiver behind the trigger guard.

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]]> By: dogon1013 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/16/wooden-ar-15-stock-patented/comment-page-1/#comment-10900 dogon1013 Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:22:58 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6746#comment-10900 Is it a Design patent, or a Utility patent? (I could not tell by the patent description) You can get a design patent on anything....utility is harder and has to be something new. (that's the way it is supposed to be). I can see this being a design patent, to patent the design of the wooden stock and forearm. But maybe there is a utility patent on the way it mounts to the receiver. Is it a Design patent, or a Utility patent? (I could not tell by the patent description)

You can get a design patent on anything….utility is harder and has to be something new. (that’s the way it is supposed to be).

I can see this being a design patent, to patent the design of the wooden stock and forearm. But maybe there is a utility patent on the way it mounts to the receiver.

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]]> By: hsoi http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/16/wooden-ar-15-stock-patented/comment-page-1/#comment-10895 hsoi Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:52:43 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6746#comment-10895 I'm no patent lawer so I could well be wrong here but... The patent has nothing to do with a wood stock, although claim 7 says it COULD be fashioned from wood. The claim seems to be a specific way of modifying M-16/AR-15 style firearms, such that they have a way to remove the hand grip and then mount a system where the hand grip was (such that now you can't put the original hand grip back), and to that you can attach a modified shoulder stock. It's a rather specific thing that has been patented and just based on a cursory read doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the patent. I mean, some patents can be taking something that already exists and just making it a bit better or taking a novel twist to it. But of course, if you think it's a bad patent, seek a lawyer, seek prior art. I am not a lawyer, just some guy. I’m no patent lawer so I could well be wrong here but…

The patent has nothing to do with a wood stock, although claim 7 says it COULD be fashioned from wood.

The claim seems to be a specific way of modifying M-16/AR-15 style firearms, such that they have a way to remove the hand grip and then mount a system where the hand grip was (such that now you can’t put the original hand grip back), and to that you can attach a modified shoulder stock.

It’s a rather specific thing that has been patented and just based on a cursory read doesn’t seem to be anything wrong with the patent. I mean, some patents can be taking something that already exists and just making it a bit better or taking a novel twist to it. But of course, if you think it’s a bad patent, seek a lawyer, seek prior art. I am not a lawyer, just some guy.

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]]> By: Dom http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/16/wooden-ar-15-stock-patented/comment-page-1/#comment-10893 Dom Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:43:15 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6746#comment-10893 Does that remind anyone else of the Dragunov? I guess looks are not the point, this seems likely to be more about "scary features" - a concern anywhere, especially Commiefornia. Does that remind anyone else of the Dragunov? I guess looks are not the point, this seems likely to be more about “scary features” – a concern anywhere, especially Commiefornia.

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