Comments on: Double feed in SKS kills operator: A warning to all of us http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/08/double-feed-in-sks-kills-operator-a-warning-to-all-of-us/ Firearms not Politics Fri, 10 Feb 2012 23:24:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Paladin http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/08/double-feed-in-sks-kills-operator-a-warning-to-all-of-us/comment-page-1/#comment-67336 Paladin Wed, 13 Jul 2011 22:38:53 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6642#comment-67336 I wasn’t going to add my 2 cents to this discussion since this thread is so old, but, after reading through the comments it seemed to me that many of the writers were either WAY overthinking the issue or did not have much real world world experience with the SKS rifle. I first became familiar with the SKS in the 80′s when I came across a catalog from Navy Arms, which offered them as the “Cowboy Companion” scabbard rifle. It was an SKS “Paratrooper” short barreled version with the bayonet lug removed. Since I had my FFL I ordered one, and a few days later UPS delivered it to my front door. Sweet looking rifle. I bought a few boxes of surplus 7.62 ammo, went out to the range, and I was hooked. I looked up several companies that were importing them and bought a couple for my collection. Being an avid customizer, I was interested to see how this little rifle could be modded and, after looking through a few more catalogs, I ordered up the full range of goodies available then for the SKS. At that time you could easily find a whole array of custon SKS parts. You could even order 75-100 round drum magazines! Soon I had a custom shooter with a bedded folding stock, detachable 30 round mag, extended mag release, fully adjustable rear peep sight, fiber optic front sight, see through scope mount w/variable scope and a combo muzzle brake/flash supressor. Back out the range and it was a tack driver out to 100 yards. The only weak link was the magazines. The were steel with the extended “duckbill” front and they would fail to feed every 15 or 20 rounds, usually with the round jamming into the backside of the chamber. After ordering and trying several magazines from different manufacturers I discoverd that COBRAY had developed detachable zytel mags in 20, 30 and 40 round capacities that actually worked very well. In testing them I put so many rounds through the weapon (with nary a misfeed or jam) that when I set it on the shooting bench to change targets, it caught the bench rest on fire. The Rangemaster didn’t appreciate that too much, but he commented that I had one of the best modded SKS’s he had ever seen. I actually built this same setup for several people who had seen and shot mine and wanted one for themselves. Then Patrick Purdy went on his little rampage, and as politicians are want to do, they decided to blame the gun and not the nutcase, and the “assault weapon” gun ban made owning these fine weapons a crime when simularly modded out. All that being said, I completely believe that the fatal malfunction mentioned not only could, but probably did occur as described. Imported steel cased 7.62×39 rounds have been known to misfire and even break in the chamber. They even make a broken/jammed shell extractor specifically for the SKS because this has occured often enough to create a need for it. The deceased shooter may have had had a misfire due to a jammed firing pin. Some SKS’s have an un-sprung “floating” firing pin which can jam when dirty. If it jams while recessed you can have misfires. If it jams while extended you will experience an SKS on full auto until the magazine is empty or the firing pin un-jams itself. For whatever reason, he had a misfire with a live round in the chamber which may or may not have been stuck. In order to investigate the cause, and IMHO being unfamiliar with the weapon, resting the weapon on his hip, he pulled the bolt fully back, (possibly thinking it would lock) but the bolt slipped from his grasp causing it to (properly) try to chamber another round, which in this case being 7.62×39 meant it had a pointed FMC bullet which doubles nicely as a firing pin. But ooops, there was already a live round in the chamber. Once struck, the steel case round which was unsupported because the bolt was driving another one forward, either fractured, and/or the chamber pressure blew the round or its remnants out of the receiver at a high enough velocity to pierce his abdomen and up into his chest killing him. Freak accident yes… but more due to user error than manufacturer error. If you have a misfire on a STOCK SKS, the proper procedure would be to engage the safety, then POINTING THE MUZZLE IN A SAFE DIRECTION, set it down and wait a few minutes in case the round cooks off. Then, STILL KEEPING THE MUZZLE POINTED IN A SAFE DIRECTION, release the magazine catch to open the mag and dump all the rounds. Then you would close the mag and pull the bolt all the way back, which the bolt catch would now lock open. You can then extract the misfired round. This is not as easily done with a loaded 20, 30, or 40 round detachable magazine as it is locked in place and cannot be removed with the bolt fully forward, BUT IT IS DOABLE with a little knowledge and practice. If you are familiar with the weapon, you know you can pull the bolt fully rearward, then pull up the internal bolt stop with you finger. This will hold the bolt open and the magazine can be removed. But, if the bolt did happen to slip or the catch didn’t engage, you would risk chambering another round. After trial and error, the way that I accomplish this, which only works if you have an extended magazine release installed, (see second COBRAY link below) is to 1: Engage the safety. 2: Grip the weapon by the magazine with your left hand, placing the side/back of your pinky finger against the extended mag release. 3: Resting the buttstock of the weapon against your leg or the bench while pointing the muzzle in a SAFE direction, SLOWLY begin pulling the bolt back with your other hand while simultaneously pushing the mag release rearward and rotating the the magazine down and forward. When the bolt is about halfway back, the magazine will release and you can remove it (and all the rounds) from the weapon. You can then either release the bolt, or pull it all the way back and flip up the internal bolt catch with you finger. It sounds more complicated that it actually is, but like anything else, with practice it becomes second nature. Also, as a side thought, when using the COBRAY type zytel mags, which have a slot machined in the side for a cartridge assist button to help pull the follower and spring down as you load it, (pictured in the 2nd link when you scroll down) and you want to put a full mag into you SKS without jacking one into the chamber, you can proceed as follows. 1: Pull and lock the bolt back as described above. 2: Engage the safety. 3: Insert and lock the magazine into the receiver. 4: Insert the assist button into the cutout slot a few rounds from the top. 5: Pointing the muzzle in a safe direction, grip the weapon by the magazine, placing your thumb on the top of the assist button. 6: SLOWLY pull the button down with your thumb while observing the rounds in through the receiver, which will start to drop. 7: Gripping the bolt firmly, pull it back slightly to release the catch and SLOWLY slide it forward, holding pressure on the mag button and making sure a round is not extracted from the magazine till the bolt is fully closed. 8: POINTING THE MUZZLE IN A SAFE DIRECTION, disengage the safety and release the hammer with the trigger. Anyway, those are my thought’s on the matter, simply my opinion. I hope it has added some insight to the issue. Iv’e included some links below for those who are interested: COBRAY 30RND SKS Magazine: http://www.keepshooting.com/sks-magazine-30rd-detachable.html COBRAY Non front Tab Mag conversion Kit photo showing “assist button and extended magazine release: http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=77127.15 GUNBROKER.COM SKS Parts Auction Board featuring an SKS drum magazine: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Browse.aspx?Cat=3042&PurgedItem=true I wasn’t going to add my 2 cents to this discussion since this thread is so old, but, after reading through the comments it seemed to me that many of the writers were either WAY overthinking the issue or did not have much real world world experience with the SKS rifle.

I first became familiar with the SKS in the 80′s when I came across a catalog from Navy Arms, which offered them as the “Cowboy Companion” scabbard rifle. It was an SKS “Paratrooper” short barreled version with the bayonet lug removed. Since I had my FFL I ordered one, and a few days later UPS delivered it to my front door. Sweet looking rifle. I bought a few boxes of surplus 7.62 ammo, went out to the range, and I was hooked.

I looked up several companies that were importing them and bought a couple for my collection. Being an avid customizer, I was interested to see how this little rifle could be modded and, after looking through a few more catalogs, I ordered up the full range of goodies available then for the SKS. At that time you could easily find a whole array of custon SKS parts. You could even order 75-100 round drum magazines! Soon I had a custom shooter with a bedded folding stock, detachable 30 round mag, extended mag release, fully adjustable rear peep sight, fiber optic front sight, see through scope mount w/variable scope and a combo muzzle brake/flash supressor. Back out the range and it was a tack driver out to 100 yards. The only weak link was the magazines. The were steel with the extended “duckbill” front and they would fail to feed every 15 or 20 rounds, usually with the round jamming into the backside of the chamber.

After ordering and trying several magazines from different manufacturers I discoverd that COBRAY had developed detachable zytel mags in 20, 30 and 40 round capacities that actually worked very well. In testing them I put so many rounds through the weapon (with nary a misfeed or jam) that when I set it on the shooting bench to change targets, it caught the bench rest on fire. The Rangemaster didn’t appreciate that too much, but he commented that I had one of the best modded SKS’s he had ever seen. I actually built this same setup for several people who had seen and shot mine and wanted one for themselves.

Then Patrick Purdy went on his little rampage, and as politicians are want to do, they decided to blame the gun and not the nutcase, and the “assault weapon” gun ban made owning these fine weapons a crime when simularly modded out.

All that being said, I completely believe that the fatal malfunction mentioned not only could, but probably did occur as described. Imported steel cased 7.62×39 rounds have been known to misfire and even break in the chamber. They even make a broken/jammed shell extractor specifically for the SKS because this has occured often enough to create a need for it. The deceased shooter may have had had a misfire due to a jammed firing pin. Some SKS’s have an un-sprung “floating” firing pin which can jam when dirty. If it jams while recessed you can have misfires. If it jams while extended you will experience an SKS on full auto until the magazine is empty or the firing pin un-jams itself. For whatever reason, he had a misfire with a live round in the chamber which may or may not have been stuck. In order to investigate the cause, and IMHO being unfamiliar with the weapon, resting the weapon on his hip, he pulled the bolt fully back, (possibly thinking it would lock) but the bolt slipped from his grasp causing it to (properly) try to chamber another round, which in this case being 7.62×39 meant it had a pointed FMC bullet which doubles nicely as a firing pin. But ooops, there was already a live round in the chamber.

Once struck, the steel case round which was unsupported because the bolt was driving another one forward, either fractured, and/or the chamber pressure blew the round or its remnants out of the receiver at a high enough velocity to pierce his abdomen and up into his chest killing him. Freak accident yes… but more due to user error than manufacturer error.

If you have a misfire on a STOCK SKS, the proper procedure would be to engage the safety, then POINTING THE MUZZLE IN A SAFE DIRECTION, set it down and wait a few minutes in case the round cooks off. Then, STILL KEEPING THE MUZZLE POINTED IN A SAFE DIRECTION, release the magazine catch to open the mag and dump all the rounds. Then you would close the mag and pull the bolt all the way back, which the bolt catch would now lock open. You can then extract the misfired round. This is not as easily done with a loaded 20, 30, or 40 round detachable magazine as it is locked in place and cannot be removed with the bolt fully forward, BUT IT IS DOABLE with a little knowledge and practice.

If you are familiar with the weapon, you know you can pull the bolt fully rearward, then pull up the internal bolt stop with you finger. This will hold the bolt open and the magazine can be removed. But, if the bolt did happen to slip or the catch didn’t engage, you would risk chambering another round. After trial and error, the way that I accomplish this, which only works if you have an extended magazine release installed, (see second COBRAY link below) is to 1: Engage the safety. 2: Grip the weapon by the magazine with your left hand, placing the side/back of your pinky finger against the extended mag release. 3: Resting the buttstock of the weapon against your leg or the bench while pointing the muzzle in a SAFE direction, SLOWLY begin pulling the bolt back with your other hand while simultaneously pushing the mag release rearward and rotating the the magazine down and forward. When the bolt is about halfway back, the magazine will release and you can remove it (and all the rounds) from the weapon. You can then either release the bolt, or pull it all the way back and flip up the internal bolt catch with you finger. It sounds more complicated that it actually is, but like anything else, with practice it becomes second nature.

Also, as a side thought, when using the COBRAY type zytel mags, which have a slot machined in the side for a cartridge assist button to help pull the follower and spring down as you load it, (pictured in the 2nd link when you scroll down) and you want to put a full mag into you SKS without jacking one into the chamber, you can proceed as follows. 1: Pull and lock the bolt back as described above. 2: Engage the safety. 3: Insert and lock the magazine into the receiver. 4: Insert the assist button into the cutout slot a few rounds from the top. 5: Pointing the muzzle in a safe direction, grip the weapon by the magazine, placing your thumb on the top of the assist button. 6: SLOWLY pull the button down with your thumb while observing the rounds in through the receiver, which will start to drop. 7: Gripping the bolt firmly, pull it back slightly to release the catch and SLOWLY slide it forward, holding pressure on the mag button and making sure a round is not extracted from the magazine till the bolt is fully closed. 8: POINTING THE MUZZLE IN A SAFE DIRECTION, disengage the safety and release the hammer with the trigger.

Anyway, those are my thought’s on the matter, simply my opinion. I hope it has added some insight to the issue. Iv’e included some links below for those who are interested:

COBRAY 30RND SKS Magazine:

http://www.keepshooting.com/sks-magazine-30rd-detachable.html

COBRAY Non front Tab Mag conversion Kit photo showing “assist button and extended magazine release:

http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=77127.15

GUNBROKER.COM SKS Parts Auction Board featuring an SKS drum magazine:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Browse.aspx?Cat=3042&PurgedItem=true

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]]> By: Paladin http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/08/double-feed-in-sks-kills-operator-a-warning-to-all-of-us/comment-page-1/#comment-67334 Paladin Wed, 13 Jul 2011 22:29:33 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6642#comment-67334 Webmaster... When you moderate this in the paragraph containing the instructions on how to change out a removable magazine after a misfire, please change "thumb" to "pinky finger". It was late and I was a pit punchy when I wrote that. Thanks!!! Webmaster… When you moderate this in the paragraph containing the instructions on how to change out a removable magazine after a misfire, please change “thumb” to “pinky finger”. It was late and I was a pit punchy when I wrote that.

Thanks!!!

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]]> By: Paladin http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/08/double-feed-in-sks-kills-operator-a-warning-to-all-of-us/comment-page-1/#comment-67261 Paladin Wed, 13 Jul 2011 08:54:03 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6642#comment-67261 I wasn't going to add my 2 cents to this discussion since this thread is so old, but, after reading through the comments it seemed to me that many of the writers were either WAY overthinking the issue or did not have much real world world experience with the SKS rifle. I first became familiar with the SKS in the 80's when I came across a catalog from Navy Arms, which offered them as the "Cowboy Companion" scabbard rifle. It was an SKS "Paratrooper" short barreled version with the bayonet lug removed. Since I had my FFL I ordered one, and a few days later UPS delivered it to my front door. Sweet looking rifle. I bought a few boxes of surplus 7.62 ammo, went out to the range, and I was hooked. I looked up several companies that were importing them and bought a couple for my collection. Being an avid customizer, I was interested to see how this little rifle could be modded and, after looking through a few more catalogs, I ordered up the full range of goodies available then for the SKS. At that time you could easily find a whole array of custon SKS parts. You could even order 75-100 round drum magazines! Soon I had a custom shooter with a bedded folding stock, detachable 30 round mag, extended mag release, fully adjustable rear peep sight, fiber optic front sight, see through scope mount w/variable scope and a combo muzzle brake/flash supressor. Back out the range and it was a tack driver out to 100 yards. The only weak link was the magazines. The were steel with the extended "duckbill" front and they would fail to feed every 15 or 20 rounds, usually with the round jamming into the backside of the chamber. After ordering and trying several magazines from different manufacturers I discoverd that COBRAY had developed detachable zytel mags in 20, 30 and 40 round capacities that actually worked very well. In testing them I put so many rounds through the weapon (with nary a missfeed or jam) that when I set it on the shooting bench to change targets, it caught the bench rest on fire. The Rangemaster didn't appreciate that too much, but he commented that I had one of the best modded SKS's he had ever seen. I actually built this same setup for several people who had seen and shot mine and wanted one for themselves. Then Patrick Purdy went on his little rampage, and as politicians are want to do, they decided to blame the gun and not the nutcase, and the "assault weapon" gun ban made owning these fine weapons a crime when simularly modded out. All that being said, I completely believe that the fatal malfunction mentioned not only could, but probably did occur as described. Imported steel cased 7.62x39 rounds have been known to misfire and even break in the chamber. They even make a broken/jammed shell extractor specifically for the SKS because this has occured often enough to create a need for it. The deceased shooter may have had had a misfire due to a jammed firing pin. Some SKS's have an un-sprung "floating" firing pin which can jam when dirty. If it jams while recessed you can have misfires. If it jams while extended you will experience an SKS on full auto until the magazine is empty or the firing pin un-jams itself. For whatever reason, he had a misfire with a live round in the chamber which may or may not have been stuck. In order to investigate the cause, and IMHO being unfamiliar with the weapon, resting the weapon on his hip, he pulled the bolt fully back, (possibly thinking it would lock) but the bolt slipped from his grasp causing it to (properly) try to chamber another round, which in this case being 7.62x39 meant it had a pointed FMC bullet which doubles nicely as a firing pin. But ooops, there was already a live round in the chamber. Once struck, the steel case round which was unsupported because the bolt was driving another one forward, either fractured, and/or the chamber pressure blew the round or its remnants out of the receiver at a high enough velocity to pierce his abdomen and up into his chest killing him. Freak accident yes... but more due to user error than manufacturer error. If you have a misfire on a STOCK SKS, the proper procedure would be to engage the safety, then POINTING THE MUZZLE IN A SAFE DIRECTION, set it down and wait a few minutes in case the round cooks off. Then, STILL KEEPING THE MUZZLE POINTED IN A SAFE DIRECTION, release the magazine catch to open the mag and dump all the rounds. Then you would close the mag and pull the bolt all the way back, which the bolt catch would now lock open. You can then extract the misfired round. This is not as easily done with a loaded 20, 30, or 40 round detachable magazine as it is locked in place and cannot be removed with the bolt fully forward, BUT IT IS DOABLE with a little knowledge and practice. If you are familiar with the weapon, you know you can pull the bolt fully rearward, then pull up the internal bolt stop with you finger. This will hold the bolt open and the magazine can be removed. But, if the bolt did happen to slip or the catch didn't engage, you would risk chambering another round. After trial and error the way that I accomplish this, which only works if you have an extended magazine release installed, (see second COBRAY link below) is to 1: Engage the safety. 2: Grip the weapon by the magazine with your left hand, placing the side/back of your thumb against the extended mag release. 3: Resting the buttstock of the weapon against your leg or the bench while pointing the muzzle in a SAFE direction, SLOWLY begin pulling the bolt back while simultaneously pushing the mag release rearward and rotating the the magazine down and forward. When the bolt is about halfway back, the magazine will release and you can remove it (and all the rounds) from the weapon. You can then either release the bolt, or pull it all the way back and flip up the internal bolt catch with you finger. It sounds more complicated that it actually is, but like anything else, with practice it becomes second nature. Also, as a side thought, when using the COBRAY type zytel mags, which have a slot machined in the side for a cartridge assist button to help pull the follower and spring down as you load it, (pictured in the 2nd link when you scroll down) and you want to put a full mag into you SKS without jacking one into the chamber, you can proceed as follows. 1: Pull and lock the bolt back as described above. 2: Engage the safety. 3: Insert and lock the magazine into the receiver. 4: Insert the assist button into the cutout slot a few rounds from the top. 5: Pointing the muzzle in a safe direction, grip the weapon by the magazine, placing your thumb on the top of the assist button. 6: SLOWLY pull the button down with your thumb while observing the rounds in through the receiver, which will start to drop. 7: Gripping the bolt firmly, pull it back slightly to release the catch and SLOWLY slide it forward, holding pressure on the mag button and making sure a round is not extracted from the magazine till the bolt is fully closed. 8: POINTING THE MUZZLE IN A SAFE DIRECTION, disengage the safety and release the hammer with the trigger. Anyway, those are my thought's on the matter, simply my opinion. I hope it has added some insight to the issue. Iv'e included some links below for those who are interested: COBRAY 30RND SKS Magazine: http://www.keepshooting.com/sks-magazine-30rd-detachable.html COBRAY Non front Tab Mag conversion Kit photo showing "assist button and extended magazine release: http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=77127.15 GUNBROKER.COM SKS Parts Auction Board featuring an SKS drum magazine: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Browse.aspx?Cat=3042&PurgedItem=true I wasn’t going to add my 2 cents to this discussion since this thread is so old, but, after reading through the comments it seemed to me that many of the writers were either WAY overthinking the issue or did not have much real world world experience with the SKS rifle.

I first became familiar with the SKS in the 80′s when I came across a catalog from Navy Arms, which offered them as the “Cowboy Companion” scabbard rifle. It was an SKS “Paratrooper” short barreled version with the bayonet lug removed. Since I had my FFL I ordered one, and a few days later UPS delivered it to my front door. Sweet looking rifle. I bought a few boxes of surplus 7.62 ammo, went out to the range, and I was hooked.

I looked up several companies that were importing them and bought a couple for my collection. Being an avid customizer, I was interested to see how this little rifle could be modded and, after looking through a few more catalogs, I ordered up the full range of goodies available then for the SKS. At that time you could easily find a whole array of custon SKS parts. You could even order 75-100 round drum magazines! Soon I had a custom shooter with a bedded folding stock, detachable 30 round mag, extended mag release, fully adjustable rear peep sight, fiber optic front sight, see through scope mount w/variable scope and a combo muzzle brake/flash supressor. Back out the range and it was a tack driver out to 100 yards. The only weak link was the magazines. The were steel with the extended “duckbill” front and they would fail to feed every 15 or 20 rounds, usually with the round jamming into the backside of the chamber.

After ordering and trying several magazines from different manufacturers I discoverd that COBRAY had developed detachable zytel mags in 20, 30 and 40 round capacities that actually worked very well. In testing them I put so many rounds through the weapon (with nary a missfeed or jam) that when I set it on the shooting bench to change targets, it caught the bench rest on fire. The Rangemaster didn’t appreciate that too much, but he commented that I had one of the best modded SKS’s he had ever seen. I actually built this same setup for several people who had seen and shot mine and wanted one for themselves.

Then Patrick Purdy went on his little rampage, and as politicians are want to do, they decided to blame the gun and not the nutcase, and the “assault weapon” gun ban made owning these fine weapons a crime when simularly modded out.

All that being said, I completely believe that the fatal malfunction mentioned not only could, but probably did occur as described. Imported steel cased 7.62×39 rounds have been known to misfire and even break in the chamber. They even make a broken/jammed shell extractor specifically for the SKS because this has occured often enough to create a need for it. The deceased shooter may have had had a misfire due to a jammed firing pin. Some SKS’s have an un-sprung “floating” firing pin which can jam when dirty. If it jams while recessed you can have misfires. If it jams while extended you will experience an SKS on full auto until the magazine is empty or the firing pin un-jams itself. For whatever reason, he had a misfire with a live round in the chamber which may or may not have been stuck. In order to investigate the cause, and IMHO being unfamiliar with the weapon, resting the weapon on his hip, he pulled the bolt fully back, (possibly thinking it would lock) but the bolt slipped from his grasp causing it to (properly) try to chamber another round, which in this case being 7.62×39 meant it had a pointed FMC bullet which doubles nicely as a firing pin. But ooops, there was already a live round in the chamber.

Once struck, the steel case round which was unsupported because the bolt was driving another one forward, either fractured, and/or the chamber pressure blew the round or its remnants out of the receiver at a high enough velocity to pierce his abdomen and up into his chest killing him. Freak accident yes… but more due to user error than manufacturer error.

If you have a misfire on a STOCK SKS, the proper procedure would be to engage the safety, then POINTING THE MUZZLE IN A SAFE DIRECTION, set it down and wait a few minutes in case the round cooks off. Then, STILL KEEPING THE MUZZLE POINTED IN A SAFE DIRECTION, release the magazine catch to open the mag and dump all the rounds. Then you would close the mag and pull the bolt all the way back, which the bolt catch would now lock open. You can then extract the misfired round. This is not as easily done with a loaded 20, 30, or 40 round detachable magazine as it is locked in place and cannot be removed with the bolt fully forward, BUT IT IS DOABLE with a little knowledge and practice.

If you are familiar with the weapon, you know you can pull the bolt fully rearward, then pull up the internal bolt stop with you finger. This will hold the bolt open and the magazine can be removed. But, if the bolt did happen to slip or the catch didn’t engage, you would risk chambering another round. After trial and error the way that I accomplish this, which only works if you have an extended magazine release installed, (see second COBRAY link below) is to 1: Engage the safety. 2: Grip the weapon by the magazine with your left hand, placing the side/back of your thumb against the extended mag release. 3: Resting the buttstock of the weapon against your leg or the bench while pointing the muzzle in a SAFE direction, SLOWLY begin pulling the bolt back while simultaneously pushing the mag release rearward and rotating the the magazine down and forward. When the bolt is about halfway back, the magazine will release and you can remove it (and all the rounds) from the weapon. You can then either release the bolt, or pull it all the way back and flip up the internal bolt catch with you finger. It sounds more complicated that it actually is, but like anything else, with practice it becomes second nature.

Also, as a side thought, when using the COBRAY type zytel mags, which have a slot machined in the side for a cartridge assist button to help pull the follower and spring down as you load it, (pictured in the 2nd link when you scroll down) and you want to put a full mag into you SKS without jacking one into the chamber, you can proceed as follows. 1: Pull and lock the bolt back as described above. 2: Engage the safety. 3: Insert and lock the magazine into the receiver. 4: Insert the assist button into the cutout slot a few rounds from the top. 5: Pointing the muzzle in a safe direction, grip the weapon by the magazine, placing your thumb on the top of the assist button. 6: SLOWLY pull the button down with your thumb while observing the rounds in through the receiver, which will start to drop. 7: Gripping the bolt firmly, pull it back slightly to release the catch and SLOWLY slide it forward, holding pressure on the mag button and making sure a round is not extracted from the magazine till the bolt is fully closed. 8: POINTING THE MUZZLE IN A SAFE DIRECTION, disengage the safety and release the hammer with the trigger.

Anyway, those are my thought’s on the matter, simply my opinion. I hope it has added some insight to the issue. Iv’e included some links below for those who are interested:

COBRAY 30RND SKS Magazine:

http://www.keepshooting.com/sks-magazine-30rd-detachable.html

COBRAY Non front Tab Mag conversion Kit photo showing “assist button and extended magazine release:

http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=77127.15

GUNBROKER.COM SKS Parts Auction Board featuring an SKS drum magazine:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Browse.aspx?Cat=3042&PurgedItem=true

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]]> By: Jeff http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/08/double-feed-in-sks-kills-operator-a-warning-to-all-of-us/comment-page-1/#comment-64856 Jeff Sat, 11 Jun 2011 06:04:16 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6642#comment-64856 The fact that the SKS uses both detachable magazines and clips, and the fact that people keep interchanging them is getting confusing The fact that the SKS uses both detachable magazines and clips, and the fact that people keep interchanging them is getting confusing

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]]> By: gabeisfat http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/08/double-feed-in-sks-kills-operator-a-warning-to-all-of-us/comment-page-1/#comment-62070 gabeisfat Thu, 05 May 2011 17:45:54 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6642#comment-62070 Any update or source to this story? I remember this guy posting on THR and ARFcom and just about every major gun forum. You can usually tell its a troll/fake when a one-post-wonder registers that day and simply disappears the next without ever replying. Honestly, what kind of self-respecting 'lawyer' goes onto messageboards to get advice from random strangers on the internet? And I have a hardtime believe a piece of steel casing or even a whole steel casing would kill you. Not saying it hasn't happened, but this whole story just screams fake to me. Any update or source to this story?

I remember this guy posting on THR and ARFcom and just about every major gun forum. You can usually tell its a troll/fake when a one-post-wonder registers that day and simply disappears the next without ever replying.

Honestly, what kind of self-respecting ‘lawyer’ goes onto messageboards to get advice from random strangers on the internet? And I have a hardtime believe a piece of steel casing or even a whole steel casing would kill you. Not saying it hasn’t happened, but this whole story just screams fake to me.

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]]> By: Greg http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/08/double-feed-in-sks-kills-operator-a-warning-to-all-of-us/comment-page-1/#comment-59490 Greg Tue, 05 Apr 2011 05:45:53 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6642#comment-59490 My sks is to good and it's a ak47, it shoots a 223 so it has not enough power to kill, that guy should have got an sks 223 ak like me, delete this message u peice of shot, if the bullet exploded and all the gas went into the air how was there any pressure behind the bullet to send it down range? I read the first three comments before angrily scrolling down to call bs. or the bullet is still in the barrel and the next person to shot is gonna be a lol on YouTube, again my ak 223 sks is the best handgun ever made pwned!! My sks is to good and it’s a ak47, it shoots a 223 so it has not enough power to kill, that guy should have got an sks 223 ak like me, delete this message u peice of shot, if the bullet exploded and all the gas went into the air how was there any pressure behind the bullet to send it down range? I read the first three comments before angrily scrolling down to call bs. or the bullet is still in the barrel and the next person to shot is gonna be a lol on YouTube, again my ak 223 sks is the best handgun ever made pwned!!

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]]> By: possum http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/08/double-feed-in-sks-kills-operator-a-warning-to-all-of-us/comment-page-1/#comment-47799 possum Wed, 24 Nov 2010 13:28:05 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6642#comment-47799 the manual that shows the factory produced 30 rnd detachable mag rifle, also known as an "SKK", explains no bolt hold open catch & safety unload instructions & the direction that the manual should "be transferred with it upon change of ownership" is at: http://www.scribd.com/doc/21564844/China-Sports-Incorporated-instruction-Manual-for-China-Sports-Sks-Semi-Automatic-Sporting-Rifle I realise this is an old post but there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding here both with the rifle type & commonsense, safety & that shit happens.... the manual that shows the factory produced 30 rnd detachable mag rifle, also known as an “SKK”, explains no bolt hold open catch & safety unload instructions & the direction that the manual should “be transferred with it upon change of ownership” is at:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/21564844/China-Sports-Incorporated-instruction-Manual-for-China-Sports-Sks-Semi-Automatic-Sporting-Rifle

I realise this is an old post but there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding here both with the rifle type & commonsense, safety & that shit happens….

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]]> By: gyrfalcon http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/08/double-feed-in-sks-kills-operator-a-warning-to-all-of-us/comment-page-1/#comment-41528 gyrfalcon Fri, 27 Aug 2010 15:48:10 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6642#comment-41528 If anyone wants to get rid of their defective SKS's I'll send you a bolt action Chinese T-53 Mosin Nagant as a replacement. It has "slight wear". :) If anyone wants to get rid of their defective SKS’s I’ll send you a bolt action Chinese T-53 Mosin Nagant as a replacement. It has “slight wear”. :)

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]]> By: Caseless http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/08/double-feed-in-sks-kills-operator-a-warning-to-all-of-us/comment-page-1/#comment-41124 Caseless Mon, 23 Aug 2010 23:03:00 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6642#comment-41124 The plaintiff lawyer should refer to Steven's post above before proceeding with the case. If it is not a SKS-D or SKS-M model, manufacturer is then fully off the hook. The same thing always applies to modified cars when claiming warranty work. The plaintiff lawyer should refer to Steven’s post above before proceeding with the case. If it is not a SKS-D or SKS-M model, manufacturer is then fully off the hook. The same thing always applies to modified cars when claiming warranty work.

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]]> By: Brad http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/08/double-feed-in-sks-kills-operator-a-warning-to-all-of-us/comment-page-1/#comment-40826 Brad Wed, 18 Aug 2010 11:06:09 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6642#comment-40826 Mr. Blah makes the point which I tried to make in my earlier long-winded post. The after-market magazine could not be removed with the bolt closed! Because of that, it was impossible for the operator to use ordinary safe gun handling practices; which is to remove the magazine first. Mr. Blah makes the point which I tried to make in my earlier long-winded post.

The after-market magazine could not be removed with the bolt closed! Because of that, it was impossible for the operator to use ordinary safe gun handling practices; which is to remove the magazine first.

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]]> By: Josh http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/08/double-feed-in-sks-kills-operator-a-warning-to-all-of-us/comment-page-1/#comment-40736 Josh Tue, 17 Aug 2010 12:57:04 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6642#comment-40736 I have read the basic synopsis of the event and I am left with a question: how did the third round go down range? Was it a slam fire or was the shooter on the trigger? I have read the basic synopsis of the event and I am left with a question: how did the third round go down range? Was it a slam fire or was the shooter on the trigger?

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]]> By: william http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/08/double-feed-in-sks-kills-operator-a-warning-to-all-of-us/comment-page-1/#comment-35134 william Fri, 28 May 2010 15:48:14 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6642#comment-35134 i have a bit of a law background although a tradgedy this is a lost cause the senerio discribed can happen with any pump,lever or bolt gun should a live round unfire in the chamber and fail to extract and the person operating it is in a big hurry for example it would be in human nature to rapidly try a follow up shot on a game animal should the gun not fire first try,the round stays in the chamber and the next slams into the primer ALL firearm companies give explicit instructions for a dead round all recommend a waiting period before trying to extract and all recommend removal of magazines,i hate to say this but this person made a mistake that cost him his life.....it happens,he was responsible for his own death,not the rifle or ammo i have a bit of a law background although a tradgedy this is a lost cause the senerio discribed can happen with any pump,lever or bolt gun should a live round unfire in the chamber and fail to extract and the person operating it is in a big hurry for example it would be in human nature to rapidly try a follow up shot on a game animal should the gun not fire first try,the round stays in the chamber and the next slams into the primer ALL firearm companies give explicit instructions for a dead round all recommend a waiting period before trying to extract and all recommend removal of magazines,i hate to say this but this person made a mistake that cost him his life…..it happens,he was responsible for his own death,not the rifle or ammo

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]]> By: blah http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/08/double-feed-in-sks-kills-operator-a-warning-to-all-of-us/comment-page-1/#comment-28507 blah Sat, 13 Mar 2010 11:01:55 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6642#comment-28507 you cannot remove an after market detachable clip from an sks rifle while the bolt is closed, unless if the lower bolt has been modified to prevent from being catch by the remove able clip, also Tapco USA makes an after market Bolt to prevent from having to open the bolt carrier to remove the clip while keeping the bolt carrier closed, how ever as said, in order to remove the clip the bolt and carrier have to be open, what your article is referring to is that he should have removed the clip prior to opening the bolt/carrier how ever that cannot be done with an sks that has been changed to use removable clips, I'm interested in what the out come was of the case ? did they mention what i have just mentioned ? you cannot remove an after market detachable clip from an sks rifle while the bolt is closed, unless if the lower bolt has been modified to prevent from being catch by the remove able clip, also Tapco USA makes an after market Bolt to prevent from having to open the bolt carrier to remove the clip while keeping the bolt carrier closed, how ever as said, in order to remove the clip the bolt and carrier have to be open, what your article is referring to is that he should have removed the clip prior to opening the bolt/carrier how ever that cannot be done with an sks that has been changed to use removable clips, I’m interested in what the out come was of the case ? did they mention what i have just mentioned ?

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]]> By: David Stanley http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/08/double-feed-in-sks-kills-operator-a-warning-to-all-of-us/comment-page-1/#comment-18216 David Stanley Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:09:10 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6642#comment-18216 I don't necessarily see it as a phony story cooked up by lawyers as much as a phony story cooked up by gun haters and the corporate control fanatics that are worried about the gun toteing out of work middle class pulling them out of their beds at night and settling the score for ruining the economy and flooding the country with Scareface wannabes. I don’t necessarily see it as a phony story cooked up by lawyers as much as a phony story cooked up by gun haters and the corporate control fanatics that are worried about the gun toteing out of work middle class pulling them out of their beds at night and settling the score for ruining the economy and flooding the country with Scareface wannabes.

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/08/double-feed-in-sks-kills-operator-a-warning-to-all-of-us/comment-page-1/#comment-18212 Steve Mon, 16 Nov 2009 12:41:34 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6642#comment-18212 I will be sure to let everyone know what is happening with the case when I hear anything. I will be sure to let everyone know what is happening with the case when I hear anything.

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]]> By: Hummer http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/08/double-feed-in-sks-kills-operator-a-warning-to-all-of-us/comment-page-1/#comment-18211 Hummer Mon, 16 Nov 2009 12:29:48 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6642#comment-18211 This is a hoot, I just tried to email Norinco in China to see what the status was and AOL can't send email there. I wonder how discovery came out hahahahahahaha This is a hoot, I just tried to email Norinco in China to see what the status was and AOL can’t send email there.
I wonder how discovery came out hahahahahahaha

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]]> By: Hummer http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/08/double-feed-in-sks-kills-operator-a-warning-to-all-of-us/comment-page-1/#comment-18209 Hummer Mon, 16 Nov 2009 11:54:08 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6642#comment-18209 Well where is this big terrible case being heard? It is November 2009 and the gun loving lawyer hasn't obtained any support from this website. We haven't heard any more from the gun loving lawyer either. If somebody hears anything let us "inquiring minds" know what happened. Well where is this big terrible case being heard? It is November 2009 and the gun loving lawyer hasn’t obtained any support from this website.
We haven’t heard any more from the gun loving lawyer either.
If somebody hears anything let us “inquiring minds” know what happened.

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]]> By: Hezekiah http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/08/double-feed-in-sks-kills-operator-a-warning-to-all-of-us/comment-page-1/#comment-18198 Hezekiah Mon, 16 Nov 2009 05:23:27 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6642#comment-18198 This is a PHONY story. Its been cooked up by a law firm in Texas that is trying to hit pay dirt by stirring the pot to see if people will come forward about Norinco's SKS misfiring. The goal is to gain "evidence", ie, enough witnesses to successfully threaten Norinco into settling a monetary compensation agreement based on the threat that that the law firm has evidence that Norinco's SKS caused damage to someone who had a run of the mill "Bubba" accident caused by his own inexperience with firearms. What the heck is up with people? Don't you realize this is a freaking BLOG?? Its all opinion and "here say." This is a PHONY story. Its been cooked up by a law firm in Texas that is trying to hit pay dirt by stirring the pot to see if people will come forward about Norinco’s SKS misfiring. The goal is to gain “evidence”, ie, enough witnesses to successfully threaten Norinco into settling a monetary compensation agreement based on the threat that that the law firm has evidence that Norinco’s SKS caused damage to someone who had a run of the mill “Bubba” accident caused by his own inexperience with firearms. What the heck is up with people? Don’t you realize this is a freaking BLOG?? Its all opinion and “here say.”

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]]> By: John http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/08/double-feed-in-sks-kills-operator-a-warning-to-all-of-us/comment-page-1/#comment-17799 John Sun, 08 Nov 2009 21:42:31 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6642#comment-17799 This story doesn‘t quite make sense. My question is; Why did the case explode? So what if the 'double feed round' ignited the primer of the chambered round? So let's get this straight; the bullet traveled out the barrel, the gasses push the piston backwards but they don't contact the Bolt Carrier (BC) which is at this time retracted, and so the case simply stays put having the 'double feed round' holding the rear, and the throat holding the front. I mean, casings don't explode when the chamber is closed, they fire the bullet then the piston cycles the BC and the extractor flings the intact casing out of the chamber. Cartridge casings are designed to have explosions happen inside of them without turning into shrapnel bombs; otherwise you'd fire one shot and the inside of the chamber would be destroyed by exploding casings. Also, I've never seen "tons of videos on YouTube about firearm malfunctions that cause explosion"; firearms just don't catastrophically malfunction that easily at all. However, if this is a confirmed case, then it’s very sad and simply a freak accident; but Norinco can't be held responsible since the operator used an aftermarket piece on his rifle. The aftermarket piece is the 30 round magazine being used. The SKS is built to use the 10 round attached internal magazine, not the junky aftermarket detachable magazines that companies sell. So using an untested and uncertified product on a firearm pretty much voids any fault that Norinco could be blamed with, for neglectful manufacturing or design. And finally, double feeds like the one explained here are common and happen from time to time with firearms, yet there's no history of bullet tips igniting primers and sending shrapnel into the user. There are many methods to clearing double feeds, and they include cycling the action and/or opening the chamber. This story doesn‘t quite make sense. My question is; Why did the case explode? So what if the ‘double feed round’ ignited the primer of the chambered round? So let’s get this straight; the bullet traveled out the barrel, the gasses push the piston backwards but they don’t contact the Bolt Carrier (BC) which is at this time retracted, and so the case simply stays put having the ‘double feed round’ holding the rear, and the throat holding the front. I mean, casings don’t explode when the chamber is closed, they fire the bullet then the piston cycles the BC and the extractor flings the intact casing out of the chamber. Cartridge casings are designed to have explosions happen inside of them without turning into shrapnel bombs; otherwise you’d fire one shot and the inside of the chamber would be destroyed by exploding casings. Also, I’ve never seen “tons of videos on YouTube about firearm malfunctions that cause explosion”; firearms just don’t catastrophically malfunction that easily at all. However, if this is a confirmed case, then it’s very sad and simply a freak accident; but Norinco can’t be held responsible since the operator used an aftermarket piece on his rifle. The aftermarket piece is the 30 round magazine being used. The SKS is built to use the 10 round attached internal magazine, not the junky aftermarket detachable magazines that companies sell. So using an untested and uncertified product on a firearm pretty much voids any fault that Norinco could be blamed with, for neglectful manufacturing or design. And finally, double feeds like the one explained here are common and happen from time to time with firearms, yet there’s no history of bullet tips igniting primers and sending shrapnel into the user. There are many methods to clearing double feeds, and they include cycling the action and/or opening the chamber.

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]]> By: KCW http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/08/double-feed-in-sks-kills-operator-a-warning-to-all-of-us/comment-page-1/#comment-15865 KCW Fri, 09 Oct 2009 00:31:30 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6642#comment-15865 It's been some time since I've owned an SKS but I've always considered it to be one of the most reliable weapons that I ever owned. I find it strange that a bolt, which had gone into proper "battery" postion on a properly chambered round ,both failed to fire and then eject the round when the bolt was pulled back manually. The odds against both things happening are rather large. That then begs the question, "Did the bolt in fact achieve "battery position" on the chambered round and if not, why not? The obvious theory would be that the "chambered" round was defective for some reason and did not fully enter the chamber (had this round maybe fallen on the ground and was then stepped on, thus bludging the case; picked up and placed in the magazine, the mishaped casing then not able to fully enter the chamber, etc.?") That would explain the failure to fire, and too the extractor may not have slipped over the rim of the mispositioned round for any number of reasons under such circumstances. It would appear that the operator pulled the bolt back manually but failed to first clear the loaded rounds from the magazine, as should be done. Unfortunately the bolt handle slipped from his grasp and bolt stripped the next round in the magazine. An alternative plot would be that a properly chamber round failed to fire for reasons unknown. The operator slowly pulled the bolt back and took control of the previously chambered round. After inspection he simply dropped it back into the chamber and then let the bolt fly forward, not thinking that the magazione was loaded. It’s been some time since I’ve owned an SKS but I’ve always considered it to be one of the most reliable weapons that I ever owned.
I find it strange that a bolt, which had gone into proper “battery” postion on a properly chambered round ,both failed to fire and then eject the round when the bolt was pulled back manually. The odds against both things happening are rather large.
That then begs the question, “Did the bolt in fact achieve “battery position” on the chambered round and if not, why not? The obvious theory would be that the “chambered” round was defective for some reason and did not fully enter the chamber (had this round maybe fallen on the ground and was then stepped on, thus bludging the case; picked up and placed in the magazine, the mishaped casing then not able to fully enter the chamber, etc.?”) That would explain the failure to fire, and too the extractor may not have slipped over the rim of the mispositioned round for any number of reasons under such circumstances.
It would appear that the operator pulled the bolt back manually but failed to first clear the loaded rounds from the magazine, as should be done. Unfortunately the bolt handle slipped from his grasp and bolt stripped the next round in the magazine.
An alternative plot would be that a properly chamber round failed to fire for reasons unknown. The operator slowly pulled the bolt back and took control of the previously chambered round. After inspection he simply dropped it back into the chamber and then let the bolt fly forward, not thinking that the magazione was loaded.

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