Comments on: 9mm NATO damages 9mm Luger pistol http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/01/9mm-nato-damages-9mm-luger-pistol/ Firearms not Politics Fri, 10 Feb 2012 22:19:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: wbblythe http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/01/9mm-nato-damages-9mm-luger-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-47873 wbblythe Thu, 25 Nov 2010 02:56:24 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6560#comment-47873 USAF inventory includes the Glock 19. NATO rounds work just fine. My personal G19 has consumed thousands without issue. A great practice round when carrying Gold Dot 124 LE for self defense. I have other guns, I acknowledge that Glock is not the last word in design, but let us be honest. The damned things work. I am more comfortable when I can carry my G19 (and I cannot always because, yes indeed, it is bulky) than any other gun I own. If you shoot a Glock, you can practice with NATO for a lot less money than +P. Air Force aircrews do. USAF inventory includes the Glock 19. NATO rounds work just fine.

My personal G19 has consumed thousands without issue. A great practice round when carrying Gold Dot 124 LE for self defense.

I have other guns, I acknowledge that Glock is not the last word in design, but let us be honest. The damned things work. I am more comfortable when I can carry my G19 (and I cannot always because, yes indeed, it is bulky) than any other gun I own.

If you shoot a Glock, you can practice with NATO for a lot less money than +P. Air Force aircrews do.

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]]> By: Swede http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/01/9mm-nato-damages-9mm-luger-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-44688 Swede Sun, 17 Oct 2010 14:05:52 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6560#comment-44688 This is a wellknown problem in Sweden. The army had to much 9 mm +p/nato/ or in swedish m/39b. The army gave or sold these rounds very cheap to ranges. And well, nobody wants this ammo so it's dirt cheap but in Sweden it's every shooters knowledge that you don't shoot this ammo out of anything else than glocks. Police had problems with m/39b in the Sig p226/p228/p229 so they switched to Fiocchi FMJ for training and gold speer hollow points for the field. This is a wellknown problem in Sweden. The army had to much 9 mm +p/nato/ or in swedish m/39b.

The army gave or sold these rounds very cheap to ranges. And well, nobody wants this ammo so it’s dirt cheap but in Sweden it’s every shooters knowledge that you don’t shoot this ammo out of anything else than glocks.

Police had problems with m/39b in the Sig p226/p228/p229 so they switched to Fiocchi FMJ for training and gold speer hollow points for the field.

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]]> By: Jerry in Detroit http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/01/9mm-nato-damages-9mm-luger-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-43273 Jerry in Detroit Wed, 22 Sep 2010 02:34:14 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6560#comment-43273 No doubt that NATO 9mm ammunition is loaded to higher pressures than SAAMI standards. SAAMI found it necessary to load to lower pressures as there were some WW2 pistols that will chamber the 9 X 19mm cartridge but will not stand up to full military pressure. As I recall there was an Italian Glisenti that was problematic as was the aluminum framed P-38. Another problem is that bore diameters vary wildly. 9mm bores range between .350 to .370. For instance, while the bore diameter in Browning Hi-Powers run .359/.360, a S & W Model 39 I once owned slugged at .352. High pressure loads I developed for the Hi-Power were totally unsafe in the Model 39. I had case blow out down the loading ramp and crack a grip. My recommendation is only use NATO 9mm ammunition in guns designed for military ammunition or older guns that would stand up to sub-machinegun loads. The Hi-Power is ok but watch for barrel cracks and keep fresh recoil springs in the gun. Some, like the Luger, will only function correctly with the high pressure ammunition. No doubt that NATO 9mm ammunition is loaded to higher pressures than SAAMI standards. SAAMI found it necessary to load to lower pressures as there were some WW2 pistols that will chamber the 9 X 19mm cartridge but will not stand up to full military pressure. As I recall there was an Italian Glisenti that was problematic as was the aluminum framed P-38.

Another problem is that bore diameters vary wildly. 9mm bores range between .350 to .370. For instance, while the bore diameter in Browning Hi-Powers run .359/.360, a S & W Model 39 I once owned slugged at .352. High pressure loads I developed for the Hi-Power were totally unsafe in the Model 39. I had case blow out down the loading ramp and crack a grip.

My recommendation is only use NATO 9mm ammunition in guns designed for military ammunition or older guns that would stand up to sub-machinegun loads. The Hi-Power is ok but watch for barrel cracks and keep fresh recoil springs in the gun. Some, like the Luger, will only function correctly with the high pressure ammunition.

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]]> By: Jack B. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/01/9mm-nato-damages-9mm-luger-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-35598 Jack B. Mon, 07 Jun 2010 00:41:30 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6560#comment-35598 Alex, I have recently picked up a p5 compact. I found the DA to be long but very smooth. Maybe not the best choice in a target pistol, in a carry piece it's about perfect. The SA is lovely. From all accounts that I have found the safeties are reliable, and I have been unable to find any documentation to the contrary. From the light range experience I've had, the P5 has been an absolutely splendid piece. Everything from the machining, to the fit and finish, to the performance of this weapon has been, in my experience, top shelf. I am not not one of these testosterone ridden "I'm in love with my gun and will defend it blindly" jackasses that are so common to these forums. I would truly appreciate specific links to negative info about my new piece. The comment about broken HP's, forgive my ignorance, what is an "HP"? In any event, so far this has been a fine pistol but would like to know what others have to say about it. Thanks much, cheers! Alex, I have recently picked up a p5 compact. I found the DA to be long but very smooth. Maybe not the best choice in a target pistol, in a carry piece it’s about perfect. The SA is lovely. From all accounts that I have found the safeties are reliable, and I have been unable to find any documentation to the contrary. From the light range experience I’ve had, the P5 has been an absolutely splendid piece. Everything from the machining, to the fit and finish, to the performance of this weapon has been, in my experience, top shelf. I am not not one of these testosterone ridden “I’m in love with my gun and will defend it blindly” jackasses that are so common to these forums. I would truly appreciate specific links to negative info about my new piece. The comment about broken HP’s, forgive my ignorance, what is an “HP”? In any event, so far this has been a fine pistol but would like to know what others have to say about it. Thanks much, cheers!

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]]> By: Army Surplus http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/01/9mm-nato-damages-9mm-luger-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-33810 Army Surplus Sat, 15 May 2010 10:58:51 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6560#comment-33810 Very impressive Very impressive

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]]> By: GG Young http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/01/9mm-nato-damages-9mm-luger-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-31186 GG Young Tue, 20 Apr 2010 23:23:06 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6560#comment-31186 I have fired a 9mm's from civilian to army surplus and used p plus and not. I have not had a problem with any ammo. But I will be more careful from now on. I have fired a 9mm’s from civilian to army surplus and used p plus and not. I have not had a problem with any ammo. But I will be more careful from now on.

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]]> By: magnus http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/01/9mm-nato-damages-9mm-luger-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-30985 magnus Sun, 18 Apr 2010 22:53:27 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6560#comment-30985 CZ 75 or CZ 85b. with my CZ85b i have shoot over 1000 rounds, maybe 1500 with swedish army 9mm. Doubt that Nato 9 are nastyer than this ammo.my brothers Glock have shoot maybe 10.000 swe 9mm. both of thoose pistol are perfect for +p 9. And for the next generation CZ,they all shoot this ammo well. just put a stronger recoil spring in the cz, the glock have a very strong spring orginal. CZ 75 or CZ 85b. with my CZ85b i have shoot over 1000 rounds, maybe 1500 with swedish army 9mm. Doubt that Nato 9 are nastyer than this ammo.my brothers Glock have shoot maybe 10.000 swe 9mm.

both of thoose pistol are perfect for +p 9. And for the next generation CZ,they all shoot this ammo well. just put a stronger recoil spring in the cz, the glock have a very strong spring orginal.

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]]> By: JT http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/01/9mm-nato-damages-9mm-luger-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-19138 JT Tue, 24 Nov 2009 02:36:15 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6560#comment-19138 Robert while I concur that the CZ will shoot +P all day long, last I looked they are all made in the Czech Republic not the US. Robert while I concur that the CZ will shoot +P all day long, last I looked they are all made in the Czech Republic not the US.

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]]> By: robert http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/01/9mm-nato-damages-9mm-luger-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-19108 robert Tue, 24 Nov 2009 01:08:22 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6560#comment-19108 CZ-75 SP01 hndles +P+ all day long. If you want American made. CZ-75 SP01 hndles +P+ all day long. If you want American made.

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]]> By: Ty http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/01/9mm-nato-damages-9mm-luger-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-15883 Ty Fri, 09 Oct 2009 05:11:08 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6560#comment-15883 Hirtenberger used a Glock 17 to test fire hot 9mm loads. This one was retired after 348,210 rounds. I would feel safe shooting any 9mm out of a Glock. http://www.cybershooters.org/IWA2000/Glock17.JPG Hirtenberger used a Glock 17 to test fire hot 9mm loads. This one was retired after 348,210 rounds. I would feel safe shooting any 9mm out of a Glock.

http://www.cybershooters.org/IWA2000/Glock17.JPG

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]]> By: Lance http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/01/9mm-nato-damages-9mm-luger-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-15791 Lance Wed, 07 Oct 2009 19:52:38 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6560#comment-15791 Glocks arnt supposed to use 9mm NATO ammo either. The only pistol made to shoot US NATO ammo is the Beretta 92F and M-92FS models. Glocks arnt supposed to use 9mm NATO ammo either. The only pistol made to shoot US NATO ammo is the Beretta 92F and M-92FS models.

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]]> By: wicked panda http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/01/9mm-nato-damages-9mm-luger-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-12755 wicked panda Sat, 01 Aug 2009 11:26:51 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6560#comment-12755 What about the Walther P1?? i guess it can handle +P ammo, i know for sure it can t handle hollow poit but FMJ in 115 gr seems OK. i bougth a box of 124Gr. FMJ last month but i haven t tried yet, i t ll be usure?? What about the Walther P1?? i guess it can handle +P ammo, i know for sure it can t handle hollow poit but FMJ in 115 gr seems OK. i bougth a box of 124Gr. FMJ last month but i haven t tried yet, i t ll be usure??

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]]> By: Alex http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/01/9mm-nato-damages-9mm-luger-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-11853 Alex Thu, 09 Jul 2009 20:29:10 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6560#comment-11853 The Walther P5 is a piece of **** anyway: horrible trigger, may discharge if dropped. Massad Ayoob talks about seeing baskets full of broken HPs as a result of firing 9 mm NATO ammo in one of his books. The Walther P5 is a piece of **** anyway: horrible trigger, may discharge if dropped. Massad Ayoob talks about seeing baskets full of broken HPs as a result of firing 9 mm NATO ammo in one of his books.

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]]> By: Griffin http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/01/9mm-nato-damages-9mm-luger-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-10282 Griffin Wed, 03 Jun 2009 08:44:00 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6560#comment-10282 Would a Sig P250 be considered a Service Pistol? Would a Sig P250 be considered a Service Pistol?

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]]> By: B Woodman http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/01/9mm-nato-damages-9mm-luger-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-10206 B Woodman Tue, 02 Jun 2009 14:00:51 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6560#comment-10206 What about the Ruger P85? I've heard it's robust. What about the Ruger P85? I’ve heard it’s robust.

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]]> By: cyle http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/01/9mm-nato-damages-9mm-luger-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-10180 cyle Mon, 01 Jun 2009 18:32:56 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6560#comment-10180 NATO is +P. Make sure your gun is rated before firing. NATO is +P. Make sure your gun is rated before firing.

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]]> By: Brian Parker http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/01/9mm-nato-damages-9mm-luger-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-10178 Brian Parker Mon, 01 Jun 2009 17:33:53 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6560#comment-10178 From page 13 of the owner's manual for my Ruger SR9: "No 9mm Parabellum ammunition manufactured in accordance with NATO, U.S., SAAMI, or CIP standards is known to be beyond the design limits or known not to function in these pistols." Kinda makes me glad I bought it instead of other well known 9mm's. From page 13 of the owner’s manual for my Ruger SR9:
“No 9mm Parabellum ammunition manufactured in accordance with NATO, U.S., SAAMI, or CIP standards is known to be beyond the design limits or known not to function in these pistols.”

Kinda makes me glad I bought it instead of other well known 9mm’s.

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]]> By: SQ http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/01/9mm-nato-damages-9mm-luger-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-10175 SQ Mon, 01 Jun 2009 16:23:53 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6560#comment-10175 From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walther_P5): P5C: Approx 3,000 examples of this pistol were adopted in the 1980s by the British Army as Pistol L102A1 (NATO Stock Number 1005-99-978-4952) for issue to the Royal Irish Regiment (Home Service) as a Personal Protection Weapon. From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walther_P5):

P5C:
Approx 3,000 examples of this pistol were adopted in the 1980s by the British Army as Pistol L102A1 (NATO Stock Number 1005-99-978-4952) for issue to the Royal Irish Regiment (Home Service) as a Personal Protection Weapon.

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]]> By: Wynboniface http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/01/9mm-nato-damages-9mm-luger-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-10170 Wynboniface Mon, 01 Jun 2009 15:25:39 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6560#comment-10170 Hugh, nope German police contract pistol. http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg86-e.htm Hugh, nope German police contract pistol.

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg86-e.htm

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]]> By: Hugh http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/01/9mm-nato-damages-9mm-luger-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-10161 Hugh Mon, 01 Jun 2009 13:53:54 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=6560#comment-10161 Isn't the Walther P5 a NATO service pistol? I believe at one time it was used by the SAS Isn’t the Walther P5 a NATO service pistol? I believe at one time it was used by the SAS

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