Chinese CQ M4 being sold in Canada
Canadian gun dealers are importing the civilian version of the Norinco CQ 5.56mm Type A, a clone of the Colt M4. It pretty much a straight clone of the M4A1, complete with 14.5″ barrel, the biggest difference being that the civilian version that is being imported is semi-automatic only.
Click to expand the photos (photo from LeverArms.com)
The rifle seems to be well received by Canadian shooters, although the finish is said be be poor. Of the Norinco manufactured firearms I have seen, they tend to be poorly finished. The badly scratched finish can be seen in this photo:
This video shows the firearm being used (iron sights and Magpul stock has been installed):
LeverArms.com are selling it for C$899.00, which seems like a good price for a M4 clone, although I am not sure what M4 AR-15s normally sell for in Canada. Canada is likely the only country where it is being sold to civilians.
Thanks to Dennis for information about the rifle.
Well, clearly a cold weather gun!
I think $900/CA sounds pretty cheap to me – small market, plenty-o-taxes, lots of import hurdles for firearms, etc. Heck, that would be cheap in the US.
I am resisting making a comment about the Chinese (!!) selling M-4 style rifles back into a NATO (if barely) country.
-OT
No, thanks. I don’t want guns built in Canada, much less China. The receiver looks like a straight casting, and not a very good one at that. I shudder to think what kind of steel they’re using in the barrel, but knowing the Chi-Coms, it’s almost certainly chrome-lined, which is a real plus. $899 Canadian is $744 US, minus 25% for approximate dealer price is $558 American, so there’s no complaining about the price!
“The operator enjoy a better annihilating firepower within 460 meters”
“Semi-automatic rifle for infantry to kill individuals or group active objects”
I’d like to read the rest of the manual. That’s some funny stuff.
Matt… I don’t think that’s a fair statement. Canada has the ability to put out some pretty nice guns. For example… Para-Ordnance? Canadian. and they make some pretty nice handguns, nice enough to sponsor Todd Jarrett. Please don’t make it to be like Canada is not adequate enough to produce guns here. Thank you
Thank you Steve for starting up this forum. I just recieved my M4 from Frontier Arms a couple of weeks ago and have been enjoying it very much. The big advantage is the ability to use any AR type magazine and the fact that ( in Canada ) I can use the LAR15 magazine that holds 10 rounds. Too bad this rifle is restricted ( 14.5″ barrel ) but I am a range shooter anyway. The fit, finish and action on the M4 are just fine. Scratches and scuff marks are a fact of rifle life, otherwise, the finish was good right out of the box. I am in the process of installing a forend rail, strobe/laser and a reflex scope. I get really good groups at 75 yards with the iron sights. ( my eyesight sucks though ) and for me that’s pretty good. I will get a short T-dot scope for the 100 yard targets. The manual ( as pointed out in the clip and by Olav ) is just a riot but still readable and well layed out.
Matt Groom and OT: Let’s keep politics and country bashing out of this forum please. I happen to be Canadian and admit that we don’t have our own firearms manufacturers, just branch factories ( in Ontario ) like Colt, Savage, Para Ordinance and a couple of others based in the States. These factories export to Europe and yes, back to the U.S. Our firearms laws are severe to say the least. All AR type ( and other military type ) rifles are usually classed as restricted and you need a special license to purchase and use these firearms. (RPAL) Our rifle magazines must be pinned to only accept 5 rounds with the exception of the LAR15 magazine which is a pistol magazine and can therefore hold 10 rounds. I know it’s weird but that’s the way it is here. Canada is a member of NATO and we fight along side of the U.S. and British troops. We have lost 127 soldiers in Afghanistan, the latest being a 21 year old young female soldier blown up by an IED. I respect our troops and those participating in the NATO effort in Afghanistan and elswhere. Sorry. Couldn’t resist.
Please don’t buy stuff from china. Thanks.
I dunno about you, Olav, but I’ve been in the market for an object to take care of all these group active objects running around on the ranch here. After all, sometimes the only thing that can take care of an object is another object.
Notice his manual says 2006 on it? I wonder if these have been sold over there for a while or they’re coming out of stockpiles now that the Obama rush is on. If Canadians have been using them since 2006, there ought to be someone who’s put a few thousand rounds through one.
Stupid question I know, but does anyone know what kind of legal barriers would be in the way of importation?
Dom, the full auto military version has been in production since 2006. They appear to ship the same manual with the civilian version.
Matt, i have a savage in .17HMR that shoots so tight its scary. I would buy any Canadian made product. Some Chinese made stuff is good too.
Part of the reason for the success of this rifle is the increasingly onerous export restrictions on US made ARs and AR variants. It’s increasingly easier to buy guns made in Europe and Asia than US made guns due to US State Department restrictions. I’m sure if we had fewer hurdles up here and pricing was closer (after the exchange rate conversion) the Norcs wouldn’t have the same market. Right now it makes more sense to buy one of these and get it Parkerized locally than to deal with the aforementioned hurdles around US made guns.
On my comments made earlier, I did not mean to imply that Canada is comparable to China, and I would much rather live in Canada than a communist country like China or NYC.
It’s just that I have a general rule that I don’t buy new guns from countries that don’t trust their own people with guns. I know, I know… gun ownership is permitted in Canada, just like it’s permitted in Chicago. Get it? Permitted? Sorry.
So, in conclusion, I apologize for offending our English speaking brothers and sisters to the north. But not Quebec, ’cause they suck.
KIDDING! Jeez!
You can make the AR15 lower from any material that can hold the trigger assembly and extension tube. It’s stress free.
The upper have to be metal. Casting is fine and will last forever as long as it is taken care of. The majority of the stress is in the barrel and bolt. Most bolt will last between 5k-15k depending how well it is made or how lucky you are.
There have been rumors in the past that the Chinese is thinking about switching to the AR.
I’m a capitalist and I hate how the US government export laws makes US companies uncompetitive in the world market.
This clone’s finish is pretty scratch prone – doesn’t hold up to much wear and tear but it is cheap n’ cheerful for the price point I guess. This Canadian doesn’t buy anything from China when possible, which is hard to do
There are some nice high end makers of long range rifles though in Canada. Prairie Gun Works is one I can think of. The coyote isn’t the prettiest gun but shoots nicely from what I hear.
My favorite gun store in Canada is in Calgary, Alberta. They carry the Coyote.
http://www.theshootingedge.com/cmgallery/
Thanks for the blog.
Denn.. I believe Para-Ord isn’t a “branch”. It’s headquarters is in Canada. I believe thats where Para-Ord started.
Matt… Again, there’s nothing wrong with the guns manufactured here. I actually know a couple guys in the US army who have shot and used Norinco rifles and like them a lot. And it’s not that we’re not trusted with the guns. Please do not start spurting off things you don’t know much about. I love this blog because it’s not focused around politics and certainly don’t want this to turn into such. Just because we have stricter rules to prevent crazies from getting their hands on these kinds of weapons doesn’t mean that our country doesn’t trust us. If you know anything about Canadian politics, you’ll know that there’s such tight rules because of ONE former Prime Minister who put the current laws into effect.
Like I said. Let’s start talking about the M4, not who made it or why we shouldn’t buy from China or whatever. I can get all that kind of c**p from Canadian Gunnutz and I thought this forum was above that. Back to the topic. I just finished installing my goodies on the M4 and I will post a few links to the pictures. Thanks.
Here are some links to photos of my M4:
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/Denn0001/DSCF1033.jpg?t=1239852333
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/Denn0001/DSCF1036.jpg?t=1239852443
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/Denn0001/DSCF1040.jpg?t=1239852517
Shame on Canada for buying from China when we have plenty of folks making AR’s here in the US.
@Heath… Canada (the country) isn’t buying Chinese guns… individual Canadian private citizens are doing that in small quanties. I belong to several gun clubs and don’t know anyone with a chinese gun.
I think Lever Arms is a private gun store that buys chinese guns due to demands of the local chinese population in Vancouver that wants to buy them for whatever reason…
@Denn – nice pictures! I like your efforts to get us back on topic.
gentleman, back on topic
The weather is a bit on the cool side and I have a cold so I can’t get out to the range to try out my little Docter reflex sight, but I am itching for the chance. The strobe/laser doesn’t fit tightly on the handguard rail. I noticed that the rail seems a bit thinner than the one on the handle so I am assuming that is the cause. I thought all the rails met the same specs but I guess not. Oh well, it’s just for the light mainly. I’ll see if there is a way to tighten it as it has a quick release mechanism.
Has anyone tried a .22cal. conversion kit on their M4? Would be good for practice. How well does it work?
Here is some info on the steel in Norinco´s 1911 handguns:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=4891822
In a nutshell, it is superior to Colt and most of the rest of the manufacturers.
Of course this may or may not apply to the barrel of this M4. But it seems plausible that it would.
I agree that the finish looks rather rough though.
An accuracy comparison would have been nice. Seeing that it goes “bang” when you pull the trigger is nice but not terribly informative IMHO.
It is rather fascinating that the Chinese still cannot write an instruction manual in proper english
. But perhaps that is part of why they manage to keep costs down. No unneccessary paychecks to translators…
The reason for the popularity of this rifle in Canada is that you cannot buy an American AR15 rifle with 14.5″ barrel, flash hider, and six position buttstock due to US export regulations.
SW M&P that I saw in a local gun store could only be had with a straight 16″ barrel with no threaded muzzle and fixed stock.
Some Americans are complaining that why Canadians do not buy from the US.People are buying Norinco becasue the US DOS refuse to export to Canadian citizens firearms.
Maybe you should ask your Congressmen why the US State Department make it so difficult, almost impossible, to apply for export permit for AR15 to Canada. It is impossible to get AR in quantity out of the US. No flash hidder, no collapsabls stock, no 5.56mm chamber, nothing under 16″. Anything that is “military” calibre (5.56, 7.62NATO, 7.62X39, 50BMG) is not allowed out of the US to Canada.
Canada fought hard in afghanistan as an ally of the US. And the US in terms cheat Canadian citizens like Mexicans. We fought in the GWOT, and this is how the US repays Canadians who vote for a US friendly Canadian government.
Having been in China myself, and having a few Chinese friends, I can tell you that translation between chinese and english is difficult in the extreme. Many of their words can have multiple meanings. It’s all in the way they are pronounced etc. The manual for the M4 is still very readable. I worked in a machine shop for years and we had some sophisticated CNC machine tools manufactured in Japan. The manuals were no better written. Please don’t judge the quality of craftsmanship or make fun of the people of other nations just because they don’t have a proficiency in our language. The M4 is a good quality rifle and I wouldn’t hesitate to tell someone to purchase one. Sure, we would like American AR rifles but they are expensive and difficult to get in the type that we want. The U.S. government has made it nearly impossible to get many firearms and parts. I can’t even order a tactical scope from the U.S. never mind a magazine or AR parts for the M4. I wish this cold I have would go away so I can get out to the range. Noe let’s get back on topic people.
I am finding the M4 to be very dependable and extemely fun to shoot. I just need to get better at mounting accesories. I have learned that Loctite is a good idea to use on threaded items. Now if I can just get the play out of the strobe/laser mount.
I have to echo the comment about never buying anything from China if at all possible. The money we send them funds their shenanigans, like their harrassment of our Navy’s ships in international waters. Buying their products also employs their citizens, not ours. We need to do everything possible to keep manufacturing here. China is probably our number one enemy in the world right now.
Ed is right.
https://shopquestar.com/shopping65/shopexd.asp?id=79&bc=no
However, the DOJ no longer grants export permits to Canadians for anything of military utility.
Dealers such as Questar and Eastern Arms have sold US ARs and parts (Rock River, Colt, DPMS, LMT and Stag), but not sure how easy to get these items in light of the current run on arms in the USA.
Steve, You might as well close this forum as it has turned into a political mess. For pete’s sake guys. It’s just a rifle not foriegn policy. Nuff. said…
I was going to ask if anyone has instructions for the Burris Fast Fire cause I lost mine and am having a difficult time ranging in the scope. Stay on the topic!!!
Well, I finally got my reflex sight roughly ranged in. I used my rifle workstation stand to hold the rifle tightly so I could adjust where the dot went. I put a ranging target on the wall in the basement so it was about 30 feet away. No, I didn’t actually shoot. Just used the iron sight which is right on,and then adjusted the red dot so it was just a bit lower than dead on. I then adjusted the laser to hit where the red dot was sitting on the target. I hope this method will get me on paper at the range.
Well, after looking at the pictures of this rifle………………….. no thanks. The finish on the rear sight adjustment knob is simply diabolical. I mean, really, just spend another 200 and get a Bushmaster. Not now though, because you can’t get them.
I was one of the first ones to buy a Norinco M4 from Armseast, I have put a little over 4000 rounds through it with exactly zero stopages. The finish could be a little better, but its not that bad. If this rifle was approved for sale in the US, thousands of people would buy it.
In Canada we do have several home grown AR manufactures Dlask, Alberta Tactical Rifle. We also have some businesses that are starting to produce short barrels, rails, flash hiders and so forth.
If I had my way I would buy all my gun parts from Canada, but unfortunately that’s not possible.
Thanks for the info Rick. I would sooner buy parts made in Canada anyway. Good to hear of someone who has cranked 4000 rounds through the M4. Really proves it’s reliability. Any signs of wear? As for the finish on the rifle, I don’t mind the finish at all. It’s a military type rifle and the finish isn’t that bad. Maybe it varies from rifle to rifle, but mine was just great. I was at a local military display and the C7 rifles were just scratched and dented but obviously worked just fine. Alittle touchup here and there helps if necessary but I wouldn’t go through the trouble just yet.
Well I finally ordered one today maybe before I can’t even get one.
I would buy an american or canadian M4 Type but they are on the average of 700 to a 1000 dollors Plus Tax more then this Norinco. If you can even get one. This is a large difference in Price. never Mind trying to buy the ammo.
I do have a Remington R15 VTR I bought myself last Christmas And My car is An GM and my wife’s is also a GM so I do contribute to our side. But it took a year of waiting before they let a few R 15’s through the border. No iron sites on it though. And then they went up $250 before I could buy it. This CQ .223 will be for my spouse or backup, its a bit shorter then the remington R15. But she has a small frame.
I was born and live in Canada , and am an Infantryman in the Regular Army with a tour overseas in Afghanistan.
The only AR15 clone I can affordably get here in Canada is Chinese made, I just bought one, and they shoot and operate just like the C8A2 Carbine I use at work. The finish has a lot to be desired, but so does the Smith and Wesson M&P AR15, and Bushmaster models that go for almost three times the price here up north. The American made AR’s also don’t have flash suppressors, bayonet lugs, or retractable stocks to complay with some BS export laws. The S&W has a 17″ barrel and the Bushmaster I have shot had a 16″, the Chinese CQ had a 14.5″ barrel, which is just like an M4, or the C8 in Canada.
For those who want the best bang for there buck here in Canada we buy Chinese because they can provide what they want for sometimes half to three times less then american made, they also work and shoot just as good, or better.
I own four guns from Norinco in China, I also own one Chech, one Russian, one Italian, and two American and they all function perfectly. When the USA firearms companies and policy makers decide to stop screwing us around in Canada, I will buy more American.
I bought my AR15(heavy barrel 1:7 twist rate) for 1425 CAN$( tax included). So this clone isn’t so attractive to me.
I have numerous Chinese guns, they’re all GREAT.
My favorite, the Norinco M-14S is in my opinion a superior product to the SAI M1A in every way; except the *consistency* of the barrels, which range from slightly better to slightly worse, the majority of the time they’re on-par or better.
Most of their pistols are pretty great too, I have a $399 nickel plated 1911A1 that shoots 7 round groups of 1″ at 15 yards, if you can (which I can’t, but I had it tested). I don’t think that’s the best pistol, but for a $399 glitzy .45 ACP it’s damn good.
Just got my Norinco CQ (M4 clone) from dealer in Alberta who shipped to Ontario. Took off the carry handle and added a weaver rail for more height with a Nikon Monarch Variable Size Red Dot scope. I boresighted with a Cabelas .223 ‘cartridge’ laser to line up the Nikon Red Dot at 25 yards then fine tuned at 50 yds where it consistently punched out a one inch circle in the bullseye. Going back tomorrow to work the 100 and 200 yd range. Finish is a little rough but the action is smooth and it shoots beautifully. Worst part is the magazines – not exactly precision made. They ‘unload’ fine but get the rounds in is not a slick process. Going to look for magazines from other manufacturers. Any suggestions welcome.
Hi guys,
Has anybody tried putting on a Magpul MOE handguard on this Norinco? Is the buffer tube mil-spec or commercial? I live in the Philippines and am soon to receive my Norinco CQ-A. It’s exactly like your rifles but it has full auto fire, we also have no restrictions on magazine capacity so ours come with the 30 rounder magazines.