Comments on: The Italian Garand: Beretta BM59 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/04/11/the-italian-garand-beretta-bm59/ Firearms not Politics Fri, 10 Feb 2012 23:24:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Claudio Santoro http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/04/11/the-italian-garand-beretta-bm59/comment-page-1/#comment-57719 Claudio Santoro Sat, 12 Mar 2011 13:05:10 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5942#comment-57719 Want to comment MICA's of march 9th, in the war we lost with the USA (thanks God), the official Italian side gun was the Beretta Mod. 34 in .380 ACP and it was considered adequate because the purpose of a pistol in the military was (and is) self defense. After the war the Garand was adopted but the Beretta was mantained until the 80s when was replaced by the Beretta 92 in 9mm Nato. During the war some hangun in 9mm was produced by FNA for special troops but the round it fired was the Fiocchi M38 dimensionaly identical to the 9 Luger, but about 20% more powerful because it was intended to be fired by the MAB 38 Machinegun (MAB=Moschetto Automatico Beretta), the FNA interchangeable magazine held 21 rounds and did not have a spring because it's functioning was similar to a noria (chain of buchets). In 1891, when it was adopted the Carcano was not worse than a lot of contemporary long arms (including the Krag Jorgensen adopted by the US which was inferior on every respect). The outbreack of war in 1939 (1940 for Italy) cancelled the production of the semiatomatic Armaguerra 39 end the caliber change for the Carcano to the more modern 7.35x52 (very similar to 7.62 Nato) with it's spitzel bullet (with internal alluminum tip and lead nucleus). Want to comment MICA’s of march 9th, in the war we lost with the USA (thanks God), the official Italian side gun was the Beretta Mod. 34 in .380 ACP and it was considered adequate because the purpose of a pistol in the military was (and is) self defense. After the war the Garand was adopted but the Beretta was mantained until the 80s when was replaced by the Beretta 92 in 9mm Nato. During the war some hangun in 9mm was produced by FNA for special troops but the round it fired was the Fiocchi M38 dimensionaly identical to the 9 Luger, but about 20% more powerful because it was intended to be fired by the MAB 38 Machinegun (MAB=Moschetto Automatico Beretta), the FNA interchangeable magazine held 21 rounds and did not have a spring because it’s functioning was similar to a noria (chain of buchets). In 1891, when it was adopted the Carcano was not worse than a lot of contemporary long arms (including the Krag Jorgensen adopted by the US which was inferior on every respect). The outbreack of war in 1939 (1940 for Italy) cancelled the production of the semiatomatic Armaguerra 39 end the caliber change for the Carcano to the more modern 7.35×52 (very similar to 7.62 Nato) with it’s spitzel bullet (with internal alluminum tip and lead nucleus).

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]]> By: Spiff http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/04/11/the-italian-garand-beretta-bm59/comment-page-1/#comment-57664 Spiff Fri, 11 Mar 2011 17:21:56 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5942#comment-57664 As a point of interest, there was a Master gunsmith in Columbus, GA, many, many years ago who converted the M-1 Garand to accept BAR magazines. He also converted a great many M-1's to .308WIN and rigged them up with NM accessories - won a lot of matches...I think he was called The Garand Man, something like that. Spiff As a point of interest, there was a Master gunsmith in Columbus, GA, many, many years ago who converted the M-1 Garand to accept BAR magazines. He also converted a great many M-1′s to .308WIN and rigged them up with NM accessories – won a lot of matches…I think he was called The Garand Man, something like that.
Spiff

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]]> By: james http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/04/11/the-italian-garand-beretta-bm59/comment-page-1/#comment-57363 james Wed, 09 Mar 2011 03:44:42 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5942#comment-57363 Mr. Myers please send me the name of the gunshop.... I just missed the auction and I want to buy it! my email is jhughes20042000@yahoo.com thanks Mr. Myers please send me the name of the gunshop…. I just missed the auction and I want to buy it! my email is jhughes20042000@yahoo.com thanks

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]]> By: mica http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/04/11/the-italian-garand-beretta-bm59/comment-page-1/#comment-57311 mica Tue, 08 Mar 2011 16:24:28 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5942#comment-57311 good thing we told the italien govement ok the bald shithead is dead hear,s your new rifle in trade we willl take the carcano bolt action pos and your underpowerd useless copy of the lugar and hand you boy,s some colt 45,s so what happne,s now our milatary is carying 9 mm bearetta,s you know it,s perty sad when the us milatary can,t do it,s wepon,s in conus ie in the us of a and now thay want to scrap the m 16 for a h&k futuer wepon a two fer with a 20 mm under hide and seek round and a 5.65 on top bullpup give me a miny 14 and a colt 45 slabside,s work,s and ya can,t killl it good thing we told the italien govement ok the bald shithead is dead hear,s your new rifle in trade we willl take the carcano bolt action pos and your underpowerd useless copy of the lugar and hand you boy,s some colt 45,s so what happne,s now our milatary is carying 9 mm bearetta,s you know it,s perty sad when the us milatary can,t do it,s wepon,s in conus ie in the us of a and now thay want to scrap the m 16 for a h&k futuer wepon a two fer with a 20 mm under hide and seek round and a 5.65 on top bullpup give me a miny 14 and a colt 45 slabside,s work,s and ya can,t killl it

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]]> By: Claudio Santoro http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/04/11/the-italian-garand-beretta-bm59/comment-page-1/#comment-47784 Claudio Santoro Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:57:25 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5942#comment-47784 I carried one BM59 TA (folding stock, fixed tricompensator) during my military service back in 1973-74. If You look at the magazine You will see two machined slots at the upper front they have the purpose of better guiding the cartridges in the chamber, BM59 magazines are sturdy and reliable almost impossible to accidentally bend the magazine lips, also very easy to reload bot when in the rifle or with the stripper clip loader (id. M14s one) that functions better on the BM59 mags. When in production its price to the IT Army was just 30 % more of that of a Garand in 7,62 Nato and many parts were still interchangeable; it was conceived to convert the vast inventory of M1 in Europe to a more modern battle rifle with a reasonable expense. You should also consider that Beretta approach to Garand conversion to 7,62 N was less costly than producing a new rifle as the M14 (that in his first years was not so reliable) whose development alone had a cost in 50s US $ of more than 30 Millions, Beretta spent a tenth to organize production+development. I carried one BM59 TA (folding stock, fixed tricompensator) during my military service back in 1973-74. If You look at the magazine You will see two machined slots at the upper front they have the purpose of better guiding the cartridges in the chamber, BM59 magazines are sturdy and reliable almost impossible to accidentally bend the magazine lips, also very easy to reload bot when in the rifle or with the stripper clip loader (id. M14s one) that functions better on the BM59 mags.
When in production its price to the IT Army was just 30 % more of that of a Garand in 7,62 Nato and many parts were still interchangeable; it was conceived to convert the vast inventory of M1 in Europe to a more modern battle rifle with a reasonable expense.
You should also consider that Beretta approach to Garand conversion to 7,62 N was less costly than producing a new rifle as the M14 (that in his first years was not so reliable) whose development alone had a cost in 50s US $ of more than 30 Millions, Beretta spent a tenth to organize production+development.

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]]> By: jim mccoin http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/04/11/the-italian-garand-beretta-bm59/comment-page-1/#comment-29101 jim mccoin Mon, 22 Mar 2010 17:44:36 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5942#comment-29101 I bought one new in 1981, I have about 3000 rounds through it, military surplus and commercial. I'v had several 7.62 battle rifles, FN Fal's HK91"s and a 7.62 Galil, they are all gone and the M62 remains. I did have a problem on a freezing day at about 6000 feet in the snow, we decided to plink at some cans, and the M62 went full auto, it was a lot of fun at the time. I have heard from other owners who had the same expierance in the same conditions. The followers in my mags are stamped steel and hard chromed, all in all I think its a near perfect rifle with NM. quality sights. After firing mine a few times my brother found one for himself. I believe less than 2000 were imported by Berben, which was Beretta/Benelli before Beretta USA came along. Jim I bought one new in 1981, I have about 3000 rounds through it, military surplus and commercial. I’v had several 7.62 battle rifles, FN Fal’s HK91″s and a 7.62 Galil, they are all gone and the M62 remains.

I did have a problem on a freezing day at about 6000 feet in the snow, we decided to plink at some cans, and the M62 went full auto, it was a lot of fun at the time. I have heard from other owners who had the same expierance in the same conditions.

The followers in my mags are stamped steel and hard chromed, all in all I think its a near perfect rifle with NM. quality sights. After firing mine a few times my brother found one for himself.

I believe less than 2000 were imported by Berben, which was Beretta/Benelli before Beretta USA came along.

Jim

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]]> By: Jeff W http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/04/11/the-italian-garand-beretta-bm59/comment-page-1/#comment-27897 Jeff W Tue, 02 Mar 2010 16:00:45 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5942#comment-27897 I have one. Bought it from a guy at a Gun show nearly 20 years ago. It is a low number Beretta Receiver in Standard config. It also came with the sales literture and a wall poster for prospective buyers to show how few parts needed to be added to convert a Garand to a BM-59. It seems obvious in retrospect that would have been by far the cheapest way to quickly outfit NATO. The Magazines are a work of art. The follower is a machined aluminum billet. I did not know Cooper had one, but that is enough of a endorsement for me. I have one.
Bought it from a guy at a Gun show nearly 20 years ago.
It is a low number Beretta Receiver in Standard config.
It also came with the sales literture and a wall poster for prospective buyers to show how few parts needed to be added to convert a Garand to a BM-59.
It seems obvious in retrospect that would have been by far the cheapest way to quickly outfit NATO.
The Magazines are a work of art. The follower is a machined aluminum billet.
I did not know Cooper had one, but that is enough of a endorsement for me.

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]]> By: Lorenzo http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/04/11/the-italian-garand-beretta-bm59/comment-page-1/#comment-26024 Lorenzo Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:04:28 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5942#comment-26024 Very good article here http://gunsmagazine.com/bm59.html Very good article here

http://gunsmagazine.com/bm59.html

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]]> By: Lorenzo http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/04/11/the-italian-garand-beretta-bm59/comment-page-1/#comment-26023 Lorenzo Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:01:58 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5942#comment-26023 The BM59 has very little in common with the M14, only the base where it comes form, the Garand. The BM59 is in facts a modified Garand, this because its creation was in Beretta's intent (and in the final practical choice) the simpliest and cheapest way to substitute old Italian Army Garands with a more modern weapon. The BM59 has very little in common with the M14, only the base where it comes form, the Garand.
The BM59 is in facts a modified Garand, this because its creation was in Beretta’s intent (and in the final practical choice) the simpliest and cheapest way to substitute old Italian Army Garands with a more modern weapon.

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]]> By: John Myers http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/04/11/the-italian-garand-beretta-bm59/comment-page-1/#comment-24973 John Myers Sun, 31 Jan 2010 15:50:26 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5942#comment-24973 P.S. Also wrote about it on my blog and cited source here, of course. http://godgunsandgrits.blogspot.com/2010/01/no-it-aint-m1a-socom-its-italian-garand.html P.S. Also wrote about it on my blog and cited source here, of course.
http://godgunsandgrits.blogspot.com/2010/01/no-it-aint-m1a-socom-its-italian-garand.html

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]]> By: John Myers http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/04/11/the-italian-garand-beretta-bm59/comment-page-1/#comment-24966 John Myers Sun, 31 Jan 2010 14:09:35 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5942#comment-24966 The gun shop where I work finally let me list on gunbroker the Italian Garand we have, a Beretta BM-62, the civilian version which is semi-auto only, not selective fire like the BM-59. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=154421802 The gun shop where I work finally let me list on gunbroker the Italian Garand we have, a Beretta BM-62, the civilian version which is semi-auto only, not selective fire like the BM-59.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=154421802

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]]> By: 54Bravo http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/04/11/the-italian-garand-beretta-bm59/comment-page-1/#comment-20687 54Bravo Sun, 06 Dec 2009 11:57:10 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5942#comment-20687 TEXAS_DAVE: Yeah, every now and then some arms manufacturer gets the 'great idea' to use odd proprietary mags for some reason. I'm not sure what they think they are accomplishing by doing that? SEE: Galil, Steyr AUG, early FAMAS, Mini-14, etc. TEXAS_DAVE: Yeah, every now and then some arms manufacturer gets the ‘great idea’ to use odd proprietary mags for some reason. I’m not sure what they think they are accomplishing by doing that?

SEE: Galil, Steyr AUG, early FAMAS, Mini-14, etc.

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]]> By: Texas_Dave http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/04/11/the-italian-garand-beretta-bm59/comment-page-1/#comment-20619 Texas_Dave Sun, 06 Dec 2009 02:16:55 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5942#comment-20619 The BM-59 is about 90% M-14 except for the parts that would make them interchangable. Why the Italians didn't design the BM-59 to accept M-14 mags is beyond me. The BM-59 is about 90% M-14 except for the parts that would make them interchangable.

Why the Italians didn’t design the BM-59 to accept M-14 mags is beyond me.

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]]> By: 54Bravo http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/04/11/the-italian-garand-beretta-bm59/comment-page-1/#comment-20572 54Bravo Sat, 05 Dec 2009 11:37:17 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5942#comment-20572 Yeah, that funky ladder sight is very similar to the old M203 sight (the forward mounted sight, there was also a different type on the side of the receiver). On this rifle, it's obviously for the rifle grenade launcher-why the flash suppressor/muzzle brake is so long and has the grooves in it. It also looks like it has the flip up shoulder brace on the butt-plate, BAR style. So coupled with the bipod, this set-up seems geared for the automatic rifle role. I can't tell if it has a heavier barrel than the regular version, though. I always liked these, though I haven't shot one, as I am a big M14 fan. I always wondered though, why in WW2 the U.S. didn't do a Garand using BAR mags? Seems like it would have been a pretty big improvement on the weird 8 round spring clips. Yeah, that funky ladder sight is very similar to the old M203 sight (the forward mounted sight, there was also a different type on the side of the receiver).

On this rifle, it’s obviously for the rifle grenade launcher-why the flash suppressor/muzzle brake is so long and has the grooves in it. It also looks like it has the flip up shoulder brace on the butt-plate, BAR style. So coupled with the bipod, this set-up seems geared for the automatic rifle role. I can’t tell if it has a heavier barrel than the regular version, though.

I always liked these, though I haven’t shot one, as I am a big M14 fan. I always wondered though, why in WW2 the U.S. didn’t do a Garand using BAR mags? Seems like it would have been a pretty big improvement on the weird 8 round spring clips.

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]]> By: Larry Cannon http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/04/11/the-italian-garand-beretta-bm59/comment-page-1/#comment-15653 Larry Cannon Mon, 05 Oct 2009 22:15:42 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5942#comment-15653 Having fired both M-14 (before going to Nam in 67) and the BM 59 (After I retired from USMC in 77) I believe I like the BM 59 more. In fact, I carried the M 1 for 5 years in the Corps. Have you ever seen the results of firing the M 14 after the Compensator has been bent ? Not pretty. Just an old jarhead's opinion. Having fired both M-14 (before going to Nam in 67) and the BM 59 (After I retired from USMC in 77) I believe I like the BM 59 more. In fact, I carried the M 1 for 5 years in the Corps. Have you ever seen the results of firing the M 14 after the Compensator has been bent ? Not pretty. Just an old jarhead’s opinion.

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]]> By: dennis rambo http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/04/11/the-italian-garand-beretta-bm59/comment-page-1/#comment-13834 dennis rambo Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:18:44 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5942#comment-13834 i belive i've seen a italian version M1 with a BAR 20rd. mag. adapted to it...anyone know any more on this? have also looked at a 223 converted grand with i belive a ar mag. done by a local shop thanks. i belive i’ve seen a italian version M1 with a BAR 20rd. mag. adapted to it…anyone know any more on this? have also looked at a 223 converted grand with i belive a ar mag. done by a local shop thanks.

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]]> By: Lance http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/04/11/the-italian-garand-beretta-bm59/comment-page-1/#comment-12256 Lance Fri, 17 Jul 2009 19:12:06 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5942#comment-12256 Both the BM-59 and the M-14 are used today and for sometime in the future. By both the US military (M-14) and the Italian military (BM-59) Both are the best rifle ever made in my opion multishot good round it fires 7.62 NATO and are utterly relighable. Both the BM-59 and the M-14 are used today and for sometime in the future. By both the US military (M-14) and the Italian military (BM-59) Both are the best rifle ever made in my opion multishot good round it fires 7.62 NATO and are utterly relighable.

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]]> By: theotherryan http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/04/11/the-italian-garand-beretta-bm59/comment-page-1/#comment-11241 theotherryan Tue, 23 Jun 2009 06:35:54 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5942#comment-11241 Seems like a M14 to me. Got a Garand and love it but the M14 is probably the most perfect refinement. I will own one some day. Seems like a M14 to me. Got a Garand and love it but the M14 is probably the most perfect refinement. I will own one some day.

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]]> By: Steve Marks http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/04/11/the-italian-garand-beretta-bm59/comment-page-1/#comment-9208 Steve Marks Tue, 05 May 2009 10:54:38 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5942#comment-9208 I bought this really cool item for the Garand. I will also fit the M1A. It fits in the receiver and holds the bolt open, but let's me use my chamber brushes while it's stuck in the receiver. Pretty Cool item. I thought I would share. Steve www.m1buddy.com I bought this really cool item for the Garand. I will also fit the M1A. It fits in the receiver and holds the bolt open, but let’s me use my chamber brushes while it’s stuck in the receiver. Pretty Cool item. I thought I would share.

Steve

http://www.m1buddy.com

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]]> By: John Myers http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/04/11/the-italian-garand-beretta-bm59/comment-page-1/#comment-8693 John Myers Tue, 14 Apr 2009 22:42:05 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5942#comment-8693 We have one of these in the gun shop where I work but not full auto, just semi-auto. I post guns for the shop on gunbroker but they haven't let me post the Beretta M1/M14 so far. Owner says they ain't tired of looking at it yet. Priced at $2,500 and so far lots of lookers and feelers, but no buyers. Village Pawn and Gun Shop, Wadesboro, NC 704-694-6266. We have one of these in the gun shop where I work but not full auto, just semi-auto. I post guns for the shop on gunbroker but they haven’t let me post the Beretta M1/M14 so far. Owner says they ain’t tired of looking at it yet. Priced at $2,500 and so far lots of lookers and feelers, but no buyers.

Village Pawn and Gun Shop, Wadesboro, NC 704-694-6266.

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