Comments on: DOD banning sale of fired brass http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/16/dod-banning-sale-of-fired-brass/ Firearms not Politics Fri, 10 Feb 2012 23:24:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Karen http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/16/dod-banning-sale-of-fired-brass/comment-page-1/#comment-29794 Karen Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:23:47 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5588#comment-29794 I guess we need to collect it while we can! You can find really cool stuff at http://bestmilitarysurplus.com/more-then-the-punisher-shirt-what-would-the-punisher-buy-from-a-military-surplus-store/ I guess we need to collect it while we can! You can find really cool stuff at http://bestmilitarysurplus.com/more-then-the-punisher-shirt-what-would-the-punisher-buy-from-a-military-surplus-store/

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/16/dod-banning-sale-of-fired-brass/comment-page-1/#comment-7538 Steve Tue, 17 Mar 2009 23:55:09 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5588#comment-7538 I am pleased to be able to say that the ban has been lifted: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/18/dod-brass-ban-lifted/ I am pleased to be able to say that the ban has been lifted:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/18/dod-brass-ban-lifted/

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]]> By: Cannoneer No. 4 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/16/dod-banning-sale-of-fired-brass/comment-page-1/#comment-7536 Cannoneer No. 4 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 23:39:42 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5588#comment-7536 Meanwhile, back at the ar15.com thread, Epic_Ed says <i>As of this morning our company was informed that expended munitions brass will now be reclassified as Demil Q –– which requires no mutilation unless sold to a foreign country.</i> Meanwhile, back at the ar15.com thread, Epic_Ed says

As of this morning our company was informed that expended munitions brass will now be reclassified as Demil Q –– which requires no mutilation unless sold to a foreign country.

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]]> By: Freiheit http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/16/dod-banning-sale-of-fired-brass/comment-page-1/#comment-7527 Freiheit Tue, 17 Mar 2009 19:53:22 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5588#comment-7527 +1 for what ExurbanKevin said. GeorgiaArms does have an incentive to induce more buying frenzies and raise prices. They have a decent reputation though. DisgruntledCitizen seems to have another collaborating source however that same source is also a commercial entity that also does not cite the DOD reg. They may have picked it up from the chatter on the internet and opted to cover their asses by posting that disclaimer. I'm cautiously pissed off. I'll bring this up around my gun friends who will attempt to confirm it, but I'll wait until I can cite a rule, regulation, or law requiring it before I use it in a policy paper or in a debate with anyone. +1 for what ExurbanKevin said. GeorgiaArms does have an incentive to induce more buying frenzies and raise prices. They have a decent reputation though.

DisgruntledCitizen seems to have another collaborating source however that same source is also a commercial entity that also does not cite the DOD reg. They may have picked it up from the chatter on the internet and opted to cover their asses by posting that disclaimer.

I’m cautiously pissed off. I’ll bring this up around my gun friends who will attempt to confirm it, but I’ll wait until I can cite a rule, regulation, or law requiring it before I use it in a policy paper or in a debate with anyone.

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]]> By: DisgruntledCitizen http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/16/dod-banning-sale-of-fired-brass/comment-page-1/#comment-7517 DisgruntledCitizen Tue, 17 Mar 2009 15:46:04 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5588#comment-7517 http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=2272021&convertTo=USD quote from link (all-caps text is original): LOT (37, 655 LBS)APPROX SMALL CALIBER FIRED BRASS INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO (12, 850 LBS )5. 56 MM , (4, 063 LBS)9MM BALL EXPENDED, (8, 389 LBS)7. 62 MM, (4, 906 LBS)50 CALIBER. STORED IN 11, 8' CONTAINERS. WEIGHT OF CONTAINERS IS INCLUDED IN THE WEIGHT AND SALE. ALL SCRAP IN THIS SALE REQUIRES MUTILATION BY THE BUYER PRIOR TO REMOVAL IF ALLOWED BY THE INSTALLATION OR MUTILATION MUST BE WITNESSED AND CERTIFIED BY DOD SURPLUS PERSONNEL AT ANOTHER FACILITY. THE TITLE TO THE MATERIAL DOES NOT PASS TO THE BUYER UNTIL THE SCRAP HAS BEEN MUTILATED. BUYER AGREES TO ALLOW USG PERSONNEL TO WITNESS DESTRUCTION. WILL LOAD FLATBED ONLY. http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=2272021&convertTo=USD

quote from link (all-caps text is original):
LOT (37, 655 LBS)APPROX SMALL CALIBER FIRED BRASS INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO (12, 850 LBS )5. 56 MM , (4, 063 LBS)9MM BALL EXPENDED, (8, 389 LBS)7. 62 MM, (4, 906 LBS)50 CALIBER. STORED IN 11, 8′ CONTAINERS. WEIGHT OF CONTAINERS IS INCLUDED IN THE WEIGHT AND SALE. ALL SCRAP IN THIS SALE REQUIRES MUTILATION BY THE BUYER PRIOR TO REMOVAL IF ALLOWED BY THE INSTALLATION OR MUTILATION MUST BE WITNESSED AND CERTIFIED BY DOD SURPLUS PERSONNEL AT ANOTHER FACILITY. THE TITLE TO THE MATERIAL DOES NOT PASS TO THE BUYER UNTIL THE SCRAP HAS BEEN MUTILATED. BUYER AGREES TO ALLOW USG PERSONNEL TO WITNESS DESTRUCTION. WILL LOAD FLATBED ONLY.

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]]> By: ExurbanKevin http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/16/dod-banning-sale-of-fired-brass/comment-page-1/#comment-7516 ExurbanKevin Tue, 17 Mar 2009 15:36:48 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5588#comment-7516 Andy, The Shootist just links to the same report from Georgia Arms. So far, there's one report of this from one manufacturer. That's it. Now it is entirely possible (nay, LIKELY) that our current President or one of his minions has initiated this to knock gun owners down a peg or two, but it is also possible this is a misunderstanding and not a change in policy. One announcement on one website is all we have here: Let's hold ourselves to a higher standard than the MSM, who manufactured the "Mexican drug gangs have American guns!" hysteria out of thin air, and do some research here. Let's find out if this is a misunderstanding, but if it is not, and the DOD has halted brass sales, then the full force of the NRA and gun owners everywhere needs to come down hard on them, and fast. Andy, The Shootist just links to the same report from Georgia Arms. So far, there’s one report of this from one manufacturer. That’s it. Now it is entirely possible (nay, LIKELY) that our current President or one of his minions has initiated this to knock gun owners down a peg or two, but it is also possible this is a misunderstanding and not a change in policy.

One announcement on one website is all we have here: Let’s hold ourselves to a higher standard than the MSM, who manufactured the “Mexican drug gangs have American guns!” hysteria out of thin air, and do some research here. Let’s find out if this is a misunderstanding, but if it is not, and the DOD has halted brass sales, then the full force of the NRA and gun owners everywhere needs to come down hard on them, and fast.

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]]> By: Philip http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/16/dod-banning-sale-of-fired-brass/comment-page-1/#comment-7508 Philip Tue, 17 Mar 2009 12:13:59 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5588#comment-7508 Proof http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=2272021&convertTo=USD Proof

http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=2272021&convertTo=USD

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]]> By: Heath http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/16/dod-banning-sale-of-fired-brass/comment-page-1/#comment-7499 Heath Tue, 17 Mar 2009 04:41:43 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5588#comment-7499 Cam and Company was discussing this on the NRA News broadcast this evening. More on the matter should be discussed tomorrow night and hopefully some answers. Cam and Company was discussing this on the NRA News broadcast this evening. More on the matter should be discussed tomorrow night and hopefully some answers.

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]]> By: GatorswithGuns http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/16/dod-banning-sale-of-fired-brass/comment-page-1/#comment-7497 GatorswithGuns Tue, 17 Mar 2009 04:02:21 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5588#comment-7497 I posted on this subject on another forum got much grief from people who wanted to blame this on George Bush and who claimed that mutilation has always been the rule - blah, blah, blah. Here is what I was able to find out. According to DoD's demilitarization requirements (DoD 4160.21-M-1, Appendix 4), expended cartridge/shell casings .50 caliber and under are assigned demil code "E" which means that they require demilitarization (destruction) overseas or prior to being shipped overseas. That is clearly not what we are talking about here. Much of the confusion regarding this matter seems to come from a DRMS memo, dated May 27, 2008 that expanded LSI's (meaning Government Liquidation's) authority to include oversight, audit and verification procedures for the destruction of DOD scrap property sold to the public. This memo did NOT grant LSI the authority to reclassify property or otherwise determine what should or should not be destroyed, but some people in the blogosphere have incorrectly interpreted it that way. What I find interesting is that the letter you excerpted above states that, "Recently it has been determined that fired munitions of all calibers, shapes and sizes have been designated to be Demil code B. As a result and in conjunction with DLA’s current Demil code B policy, this notice will serve as official notification which requires Scrap Venture (SV) to implement mutilation as a condition of sale for all sales of fired munitions effective immediately." The DoD Order I mentioned at the outset states that items classified as Demil B do not require demilitarization. That sort of makes you scratch your head, doesn't it? In short, I think somebody must have gotten a memo that none of us have seen yet. Nothing in the current public record explains this sudden decision to destroy brass casings being sold domestically and for domestic use only. I posted on this subject on another forum got much grief from people who wanted to blame this on George Bush and who claimed that mutilation has always been the rule – blah, blah, blah.

Here is what I was able to find out. According to DoD’s demilitarization requirements (DoD 4160.21-M-1, Appendix 4), expended cartridge/shell casings .50 caliber and under are assigned demil code “E” which means that they require demilitarization (destruction) overseas or prior to being shipped overseas. That is clearly not what we are talking about here.

Much of the confusion regarding this matter seems to come from a DRMS memo, dated May 27, 2008 that expanded LSI’s (meaning Government Liquidation’s) authority to include oversight, audit and verification procedures for the destruction of DOD scrap property sold to the public. This memo did NOT grant LSI the authority to reclassify property or otherwise determine what should or should not be destroyed, but some people in the blogosphere have incorrectly interpreted it that way.

What I find interesting is that the letter you excerpted above states that, “Recently it has been determined that fired munitions of all calibers, shapes and sizes have been designated to be Demil code B. As a result and in conjunction with DLA’s current Demil code B policy, this notice will serve as official notification which requires Scrap Venture (SV) to implement mutilation as a condition of sale for all sales of fired munitions effective immediately.”

The DoD Order I mentioned at the outset states that items classified as Demil B do not require demilitarization. That sort of makes you scratch your head, doesn’t it?

In short, I think somebody must have gotten a memo that none of us have seen yet. Nothing in the current public record explains this sudden decision to destroy brass casings being sold domestically and for domestic use only.

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]]> By: Heath http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/16/dod-banning-sale-of-fired-brass/comment-page-1/#comment-7493 Heath Tue, 17 Mar 2009 03:46:29 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5588#comment-7493 Gents, I just got an e-mail saying that Cam & Company was just discussing this on http://www.nra.org Gents, I just got an e-mail saying that Cam & Company was just discussing this on http://www.nra.org

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]]> By: Andy Byers http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/16/dod-banning-sale-of-fired-brass/comment-page-1/#comment-7491 Andy Byers Tue, 17 Mar 2009 03:30:16 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5588#comment-7491 More corroboration: http://www.theshootist.net/2009/03/dod-ends-sale-of-expended-military.html More corroboration:

http://www.theshootist.net/2009/03/dod-ends-sale-of-expended-military.html

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]]> By: Heath http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/16/dod-banning-sale-of-fired-brass/comment-page-1/#comment-7488 Heath Tue, 17 Mar 2009 01:51:05 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5588#comment-7488 This is maddening. I wouldn't doubt for a minute BO was behind this pushing his anti-gun agenda. This is maddening. I wouldn’t doubt for a minute BO was behind this pushing his anti-gun agenda.

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]]> By: ExurbanKevin http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/16/dod-banning-sale-of-fired-brass/comment-page-1/#comment-7486 ExurbanKevin Tue, 17 Mar 2009 01:43:29 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5588#comment-7486 DOD Surplus is claiming that this is a new policy of the Defense Logistics Agency. However, there is no announcement of a policy change on the DLA website (http://www.dla.mil/DLAPublic/DLA_Media_Center/). Somebody missed a memo, it seems, but who? DOD Surplus is claiming that this is a new policy of the Defense Logistics Agency. However, there is no announcement of a policy change on the DLA website (http://www.dla.mil/DLAPublic/DLA_Media_Center/). Somebody missed a memo, it seems, but who?

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]]> By: Concerned_Soldier http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/16/dod-banning-sale-of-fired-brass/comment-page-1/#comment-7481 Concerned_Soldier Tue, 17 Mar 2009 00:17:31 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5588#comment-7481 Steve, Andy, I have been to the DRMO yard at a unnamed Fort in Texas (hint somewhere between Temple and Austin) and they have the stuff in giant bins waiting to be sold as scrap! The ASP (Ammo Supply Point) does require we return spent brass after all livefires and Range Operations. Scrap metal dealers bring in trucks all the time to pick up all kinds of unused metals and scrap for sale and reutilization. You can check it out @ http://www.drms.dla.mil/ Take a look at the price of scrap metal right now @ http://scrapmetalpricesandauctions.com/ V/R C_S Steve, Andy,
I have been to the DRMO yard at a unnamed Fort in Texas (hint somewhere between Temple and Austin) and they have the stuff in giant bins waiting to be sold as scrap!

The ASP (Ammo Supply Point) does require we return spent brass after all livefires and Range Operations.

Scrap metal dealers bring in trucks all the time to pick up all kinds of unused metals and scrap for sale and reutilization. You can check it out @ http://www.drms.dla.mil/

Take a look at the price of scrap metal right now @ http://scrapmetalpricesandauctions.com/

V/R

C_S

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/16/dod-banning-sale-of-fired-brass/comment-page-1/#comment-7478 Steve Mon, 16 Mar 2009 23:10:13 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5588#comment-7478 Andy, I imagine they make a fair bit more selling it as brass cases, rather than scrap brass. It is auctioned off and reloaders and companies who sell "refurbished" ammo would be willing to pay a lot more than the price of the weight of brass. I would think scrap dealers are very pleased about this new regulation. Andy, I imagine they make a fair bit more selling it as brass cases, rather than scrap brass. It is auctioned off and reloaders and companies who sell “refurbished” ammo would be willing to pay a lot more than the price of the weight of brass.

I would think scrap dealers are very pleased about this new regulation.

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]]> By: Andy http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/16/dod-banning-sale-of-fired-brass/comment-page-1/#comment-7477 Andy Mon, 16 Mar 2009 23:07:57 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5588#comment-7477 As a fiscal conservative, I must ask from those more knowledgable than I, would the DOD make more money in scrap sales? Not that scrap requires mutilation (or does it... I'm a network engineer, not a scrap dealer). As a fiscal conservative, I must ask from those more knowledgable than I, would the DOD make more money in scrap sales?

Not that scrap requires mutilation (or does it… I’m a network engineer, not a scrap dealer).

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/16/dod-banning-sale-of-fired-brass/comment-page-1/#comment-7468 Steve Mon, 16 Mar 2009 20:21:24 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5588#comment-7468 Concerned_Soldier, thanks buddy :) Concerned_Soldier, thanks buddy :)

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/16/dod-banning-sale-of-fired-brass/comment-page-1/#comment-7467 Steve Mon, 16 Mar 2009 20:20:05 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5588#comment-7467 I do wonder if this is a political decision, or just a classic military SNAFU ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNAFU ). I mean this decision will put a lot of people out of a job, did Obama really think this would not attract attention? I do wonder if this is a political decision, or just a classic military SNAFU ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNAFU ). I mean this decision will put a lot of people out of a job, did Obama really think this would not attract attention?

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]]> By: Concerned_Soldier http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/16/dod-banning-sale-of-fired-brass/comment-page-1/#comment-7466 Concerned_Soldier Mon, 16 Mar 2009 20:17:38 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5588#comment-7466 Oh sorry, Great post by the way Steve!! V/R C_S Oh sorry,
Great post by the way Steve!!

V/R

C_S

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]]> By: Concerned_Soldier http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/16/dod-banning-sale-of-fired-brass/comment-page-1/#comment-7465 Concerned_Soldier Mon, 16 Mar 2009 20:16:53 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5588#comment-7465 I wonder who came up with this brilliant idea? The only people who will benefit are the larger Ammo manufacturers, they are the only ones who have the capability to turn this back into useable product. Matt, Are you in the service? I respect your opinion, but I would tend to disagree with your comment. M Military equipment is getting better and better!! We are purchasing off-the-shelf technology that is far ahead of other militaries and can far out-distance (in many ways) any civilian and most foreign capabilities! I would agree with you, that there are ways of making some things better, like Piston Driven ARs vs. Gas or .40/.45 vs 9MM, but our equipment is some of the best in the world, I have carried it and used it in all seasons and war and I can tell you that most survivalists and hunters/hikers/campers, would love to have the stuff I and the soldiers I served with have/had! Most of the time I use my gear from the military to hunt/hike and camp outdoors. Boots/Cold/Wet Weather Gear especially. If our equipment is so bad, why do manufacturers always compare it to the US Military equipment standard? MIL-SPEC... V/R C_S I wonder who came up with this brilliant idea? The only people who will benefit are the larger Ammo manufacturers, they are the only ones who have the capability to turn this back into useable product.

Matt,
Are you in the service?

I respect your opinion, but I would tend to disagree with your comment. M

Military equipment is getting better and better!! We are purchasing off-the-shelf technology that is far ahead of other militaries and can far out-distance (in many ways) any civilian and most foreign capabilities!

I would agree with you, that there are ways of making some things better, like Piston Driven ARs vs. Gas or .40/.45 vs 9MM, but our equipment is some of the best in the world, I have carried it and used it in all seasons and war and I can tell you that most survivalists and hunters/hikers/campers, would love to have the stuff I and the soldiers I served with have/had!

Most of the time I use my gear from the military to hunt/hike and camp outdoors. Boots/Cold/Wet Weather Gear especially.

If our equipment is so bad, why do manufacturers always compare it to the US Military equipment standard? MIL-SPEC…

V/R

C_S

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