Comments on: Norwegian soldiers having problems with HK416 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/06/norwegian-soldiers-having-problems-with-hk416-2/ Firearms not Politics Fri, 10 Feb 2012 22:19:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Kjetil http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/06/norwegian-soldiers-having-problems-with-hk416-2/comment-page-1/#comment-53237 Kjetil Wed, 19 Jan 2011 21:20:01 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5508#comment-53237 The Norwegian Army is now considering to change back to the normal lead based ammo. News source: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=no&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dagbladet.no%2F2011%2F01%2F18%2Fnyheter%2Finnenriks%2Fforsvaret%2Fforsvarspolitikk%2Fsikkerhetspolitikk%2F15050657%2F http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=no&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrk.no%2Fnyheter%2Fnorge%2F1.7467419 The Norwegian Army is now considering to change back to the normal lead based ammo.

News source:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=no&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dagbladet.no%2F2011%2F01%2F18%2Fnyheter%2Finnenriks%2Fforsvaret%2Fforsvarspolitikk%2Fsikkerhetspolitikk%2F15050657%2F

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=no&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrk.no%2Fnyheter%2Fnorge%2F1.7467419

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]]> By: Buck Adams http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/06/norwegian-soldiers-having-problems-with-hk416-2/comment-page-1/#comment-48942 Buck Adams Thu, 09 Dec 2010 06:31:23 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5508#comment-48942 I think it's a misconception that piston systems are perfect and direct-impingement systems are unreliable. Like any other rifle a 416 still needs a trained operator who understands the strengths and weaknesses of his weapon. There's no such thing as a perfect weapon. All this becomes a nonissue when the operator knows to prevent the problem or immediately correct the problem. I think it’s a misconception that piston systems are perfect and direct-impingement systems are unreliable. Like any other rifle a 416 still needs a trained operator who understands the strengths and weaknesses of his weapon. There’s no such thing as a perfect weapon. All this becomes a nonissue when the operator knows to prevent the problem or immediately correct the problem.

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]]> By: EDMUND DALE http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/06/norwegian-soldiers-having-problems-with-hk416-2/comment-page-1/#comment-39390 EDMUND DALE Mon, 26 Jul 2010 07:11:28 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5508#comment-39390 m16 are not problem proof .the m16 is prone with problems even today as complaints given by american soldiers in iraq and afganistan especially m16a4. i think hk416 is reliable weapon with relaible piston mechanism and promising modular system. it will just need minor tweaks like with any rifle at their debut . even ak47,insas,G3 had their share of debut problems m16 are not problem proof .the m16 is prone with problems even today as complaints given by american soldiers in iraq and afganistan especially m16a4. i think hk416 is reliable weapon with relaible piston mechanism and promising modular system. it will just need minor tweaks like with any rifle at their debut . even ak47,insas,G3 had their share of debut problems

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]]> By: Response to UNIFIL http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/06/norwegian-soldiers-having-problems-with-hk416-2/comment-page-1/#comment-13213 Response to UNIFIL Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:22:18 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5508#comment-13213 I often use spirits mixed into the gun oil from stopping it to get "thick" at low temperatures. I often use spirits mixed into the gun oil from stopping it to get “thick” at low temperatures.

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]]> By: UNIFIL http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/06/norwegian-soldiers-having-problems-with-hk416-2/comment-page-1/#comment-11559 UNIFIL Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:36:54 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5508#comment-11559 Hi The problem is not with the gun but with the way you clean it and keep it oiled. We experianced the same problem with the G3 if it was not cleaned according to conditions. Most Norwegian soldiers due still use hot water for cleaning which leaves the gun "clean". In extreem low temperatures moister will condence on the metal and bind the frozen ice to the metal. Use a gun oil that prevent this and if you use hot water - relub the whole internal of the gun. You will experiance this problem from around minus 30 and lower. I served in the north of Norway, and the problem is not related to which gun you use - it is all how you maintain it and clean it. Remember also that most gun oils will get sticky at that low temperatures. Hi
The problem is not with the gun but with the way you clean it and keep it oiled. We experianced the same problem with the G3 if it was not cleaned according to conditions. Most Norwegian soldiers due still use hot water for cleaning which leaves the gun “clean”. In extreem low temperatures moister will condence on the metal and bind the frozen ice to the metal. Use a gun oil that prevent this and if you use hot water – relub the whole internal of the gun. You will experiance this problem from around minus 30 and lower. I served in the north of Norway, and the problem is not related to which gun you use – it is all how you maintain it and clean it. Remember also that most gun oils will get sticky at that low temperatures.

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]]> By: sevensixtwo http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/06/norwegian-soldiers-having-problems-with-hk416-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10896 sevensixtwo Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:10:57 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5508#comment-10896 I think its funny that any "journalist" would write an article on what ONE person, SUPPOSEDLY in the Norwegian Army, POSTED on a website. How about picking up the phone, making some calls and doing some real journalism and verify sources before you put more garbage on the net? I think its funny that any “journalist” would write an article on what ONE person, SUPPOSEDLY in the Norwegian Army, POSTED on a website.
How about picking up the phone, making some calls and doing some real journalism and verify sources before you put more garbage on the net?

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]]> By: Dale Kettern http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/06/norwegian-soldiers-having-problems-with-hk416-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10519 Dale Kettern Sun, 07 Jun 2009 18:04:57 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5508#comment-10519 sorry to tell you but HK is german not canadian. sorry to tell you but HK is german not canadian.

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]]> By: chatchki http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/06/norwegian-soldiers-having-problems-with-hk416-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10480 chatchki Sat, 06 Jun 2009 16:36:35 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5508#comment-10480 sumthin along those lines im sure could fix the weapon right up. freezing condensation shouldnt be that much of a problem for such a qualified weapon. sumthin along those lines im sure could fix the weapon right up. freezing condensation shouldnt be that much of a problem for such a qualified weapon.

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]]> By: chatchki http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/06/norwegian-soldiers-having-problems-with-hk416-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10479 chatchki Sat, 06 Jun 2009 16:33:22 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5508#comment-10479 the 416 really shouldn't be rushed into service like that, the M16 when first introduced in vietnam jammed as soon as the war escalated to more jungle combat they didnt even issue cleaning kits because all of the tests which were pretty cushy back in the 60's didnt address reliability as much as they do now, and they just assumed it was a self cleaning rifle. big mistake. with the 416 as great as a weapon as it is, uses a different piston setup that apparently hasn't exactly been tested in the full range of conditions. i saw the water mud and sand tests but that doesnt test the piston because u can still load a pump shotgun if u put mud on the out side pump,you'll just get ur hand dirty. and thats basically what they did, the piston its self wasn't tested under the freezing conditions, as in if u would freeze the outside of a pump shotgun again using an analegy u probably wouldnt be able to load and fire the weapon correctly. so it was a great prototype, but they really need to take a good look at the piston and improve it. they fixed the accuracy internationals winter sniper rifle with grooves on the bolt so when you recharged it would cut off the ice. the 416 really shouldn’t be rushed into service like that, the M16 when first introduced in vietnam jammed as soon as the war escalated to more jungle combat they didnt even issue cleaning kits because all of the tests which were pretty cushy back in the 60′s didnt address reliability as much as they do now, and they just assumed it was a self cleaning rifle. big mistake. with the 416 as great as a weapon as it is, uses a different piston setup that apparently hasn’t exactly been tested in the full range of conditions. i saw the water mud and sand tests but that doesnt test the piston because u can still load a pump shotgun if u put mud on the out side pump,you’ll just get ur hand dirty. and thats basically what they did, the piston its self wasn’t tested under the freezing conditions, as in if u would freeze the outside of a pump shotgun again using an analegy u probably wouldnt be able to load and fire the weapon correctly. so it was a great prototype, but they really need to take a good look at the piston and improve it. they fixed the accuracy internationals winter sniper rifle with grooves on the bolt so when you recharged it would cut off the ice.

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]]> By: Andreas http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/06/norwegian-soldiers-having-problems-with-hk416-2/comment-page-1/#comment-9929 Andreas Tue, 26 May 2009 19:36:23 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5508#comment-9929 The reason norwegian soldiers had problems with the ammo for HK416 was that they started now using the new 5.56 ammo from nammo (ammo without led or something, some enviromental bullshit), which the AG3 (norwegian g3) did not use. The reason norwegian soldiers had problems with the ammo for HK416 was that they started now using the new 5.56 ammo from nammo (ammo without led or something, some enviromental bullshit), which the AG3 (norwegian g3) did not use.

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]]> By: Rudolf http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/06/norwegian-soldiers-having-problems-with-hk416-2/comment-page-1/#comment-9861 Rudolf Sat, 23 May 2009 13:35:48 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5508#comment-9861 Ever tested equipment under cold conditions? All have problems. Oerlikon Laser Modul - battery empty after 10 minutes. SIG X-Five (minus 8 degree Celsius) jammed after every shot. EOLad Holosight worked but Laser off after 10 minutes. SIG 550 ... accuracy how far you can throw it ... 5 meters? HK worked (MP5k, USP Tactical, Mark23, 45C), Steyr AUG worked, FN P90 (if you like the ammo), Glock 17 worked Ever tested equipment under cold conditions? All have problems. Oerlikon Laser Modul – battery empty after 10 minutes. SIG X-Five (minus 8 degree Celsius) jammed after every shot. EOLad Holosight worked but Laser off after 10 minutes. SIG 550 … accuracy how far you can throw it … 5 meters?

HK worked (MP5k, USP Tactical, Mark23, 45C), Steyr AUG worked, FN P90 (if you like the ammo), Glock 17 worked

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]]> By: tahDeetz http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/06/norwegian-soldiers-having-problems-with-hk416-2/comment-page-1/#comment-9753 tahDeetz Mon, 18 May 2009 22:34:06 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5508#comment-9753 Pee on it. That's how US Soldiers unfroze the bolt group during the Korean War. tahDeetz Pee on it.

That’s how US Soldiers unfroze the bolt group during the Korean War.

tahDeetz

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]]> By: woodfiend http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/06/norwegian-soldiers-having-problems-with-hk416-2/comment-page-1/#comment-8855 woodfiend Sun, 19 Apr 2009 22:13:33 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5508#comment-8855 Ice is pretty strong, especially when you have it in your action. Bottom line is, this can and will happen to all guns if you put them in extreme arctic conditions. Some guns are just easier to fix though. The HK G33 seems to be a good player in this field. Ice is pretty strong, especially when you have it in your action. Bottom line is, this can and will happen to all guns if you put them in extreme arctic conditions. Some guns are just easier to fix though. The HK G33 seems to be a good player in this field.

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]]> By: webmasterpdx http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/06/norwegian-soldiers-having-problems-with-hk416-2/comment-page-1/#comment-8640 webmasterpdx Mon, 13 Apr 2009 02:59:30 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5508#comment-8640 I saw a video of the HK416 being tested on discovery channel recently and they did an incredible test. They took a stock rifle. Stuck it in the mud (completely submerged). Took it out, without cleaning and it shot in full automatic mode. Then they put it in sand. Took it out and shook it a bit and continued shooting in fully automatic mode. Then, (and this one amazed me), they completely submerged it and took it out. Gave it a quick shake and continued shooting in fully automatic mode. That last test would cause an m16 to explode in your hands. I'm surprised that a little condensation could cause any problem with this gun. I'd suggest the problem was something else.....maybe the condensation freezing???? shooting a single bullet through it should fix that problem. -D I saw a video of the HK416 being tested on discovery channel recently and they did an incredible test. They took a stock rifle. Stuck it in the mud (completely submerged). Took it out, without cleaning and it shot in full automatic mode. Then they put it in sand. Took it out and shook it a bit and continued shooting in fully automatic mode. Then, (and this one amazed me), they completely submerged it and took it out. Gave it a quick shake and continued shooting in fully automatic mode.

That last test would cause an m16 to explode in your hands.

I’m surprised that a little condensation could cause any problem with this gun. I’d suggest the problem was something else…..maybe the condensation freezing???? shooting a single bullet through it should fix that problem.

-D

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]]> By: jdun1911 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/06/norwegian-soldiers-having-problems-with-hk416-2/comment-page-1/#comment-7261 jdun1911 Tue, 10 Mar 2009 03:37:12 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5508#comment-7261 To be fair to HK, the HK416 charging handle can manipulate the BCG (which contain the bolt) just like a regular DI AR. To be fair to HK, the HK416 charging handle can manipulate the BCG (which contain the bolt) just like a regular DI AR.

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]]> By: root man http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/06/norwegian-soldiers-having-problems-with-hk416-2/comment-page-1/#comment-7247 root man Mon, 09 Mar 2009 21:55:41 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5508#comment-7247 Another reason why the charging handle should be attached to the bolt. All the most reliable arms have it that way.. ak, sig,fnc,m1,m1a, SCAR etc. There is no substitute for positive user control over the bolt at all times. rm Another reason why the charging handle should be attached to the bolt. All the most reliable arms have it that way.. ak, sig,fnc,m1,m1a, SCAR etc.

There is no substitute for positive user control over the bolt at all times.

rm

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/06/norwegian-soldiers-having-problems-with-hk416-2/comment-page-1/#comment-7226 Steve Mon, 09 Mar 2009 11:59:07 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5508#comment-7226 Mauken, thanks for the link. I have posted it here: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/10/nowegian-military-ammunition-making-soldier-sick/ I hope they sort it out soon. Not good for you soldiers! Mauken, thanks for the link. I have posted it here:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/10/nowegian-military-ammunition-making-soldier-sick/

I hope they sort it out soon. Not good for you soldiers!

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]]> By: jdun1911 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/06/norwegian-soldiers-having-problems-with-hk416-2/comment-page-1/#comment-7216 jdun1911 Mon, 09 Mar 2009 00:10:19 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5508#comment-7216 I assumed Nammo is the main manufacture of ammo for the Norwegian military. Ammunition by its nature is toxic. However, I am curious to why the fumes is toxic when used in HK416 and not other rifles? I assumed Nammo is the main manufacture of ammo for the Norwegian military.

Ammunition by its nature is toxic. However, I am curious to why the fumes is toxic when used in HK416 and not other rifles?

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]]> By: Mauken http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/06/norwegian-soldiers-having-problems-with-hk416-2/comment-page-1/#comment-7195 Mauken Sun, 08 Mar 2009 15:13:25 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5508#comment-7195 I'm a norwegian soldier using the 416 and I've only hear of these problems with one gun in my entire company. It's a new rifle, it hasn't been broken in yet. Yes, there are some minor details and some rifles may have some deficiencies from the factory, but these things happen. Personally I have had more jams with my glock than my 416. Whats worse is that we can't use our ammunition for the rifles, apparently the fumes are toxic. Article in norwegian: http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/article2963526.ece Symptoms include chestpain, couching, fever and sleeping disorders. Anyone heard of this before with similar ammo? The manufacturer is Nammo. I’m a norwegian soldier using the 416 and I’ve only hear of these problems with one gun in my entire company. It’s a new rifle, it hasn’t been broken in yet. Yes, there are some minor details and some rifles may have some deficiencies from the factory, but these things happen. Personally I have had more jams with my glock than my 416.

Whats worse is that we can’t use our ammunition for the rifles, apparently the fumes are toxic. Article in norwegian: http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/article2963526.ece

Symptoms include chestpain, couching, fever and sleeping disorders. Anyone heard of this before with similar ammo? The manufacturer is Nammo.

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]]> By: JimN http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/03/06/norwegian-soldiers-having-problems-with-hk416-2/comment-page-1/#comment-7175 JimN Sat, 07 Mar 2009 21:56:13 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5508#comment-7175 Canadian Arctic indoc and training stressed leaving the rifles outside the tents, in the cold, to specifically avoid this issue. No moisture from being in the warm, no freezing up in the cold. Its also the only scenario in which powder graphite lube was issued, to be used sparingly, and, the C1's were also left with a live round chambered at all times, on the off chance that if the action did freeze it would be freed up by the round going off. Its surprising that the Noggies have to re-learn this. Canadian Arctic indoc and training stressed leaving the rifles outside the tents, in the cold, to specifically avoid this issue. No moisture from being in the warm, no freezing up in the cold. Its also the only scenario in which powder graphite lube was issued, to be used sparingly, and, the C1′s were also left with a live round chambered at all times, on the off chance that if the action did freeze it would be freed up by the round going off. Its surprising that the Noggies have to re-learn this.

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