Comments on: Engineers’ perspective on the Remington 700 VTR triangular barrel http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/02/22/engineers-perspective-on-the-remington-700-vtr-triangular-barrel/ Firearms not Politics Fri, 10 Feb 2012 23:24:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Marcel http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/02/22/engineers-perspective-on-the-remington-700-vtr-triangular-barrel/comment-page-1/#comment-59962 Marcel Mon, 11 Apr 2011 14:10:27 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5247#comment-59962 Hello. thanks for your info. My question is ,I have a vtr in 308, is better to float the barrel? or it could be a problem and shoots more open. Hello. thanks for your info. My question is ,I have a vtr in 308, is better to float the barrel? or it could be a problem and shoots more open.

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]]> By: Douglas Price http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/02/22/engineers-perspective-on-the-remington-700-vtr-triangular-barrel/comment-page-1/#comment-55906 Douglas Price Sat, 19 Feb 2011 21:00:40 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5247#comment-55906 I think the muzzle brake ports make the gun look rather amateurish somewhat like a kids "Star Wars" toy. It also causes the barrel to forcefully "bottom out" on the barrel channel if you attempt to free float the barrel by removing the contact points. I finally "circumcised" my VTR in .308 Winchester by removing the muzzle brake just behind the rearmost port. I recess crowned the remaining barrel the standard 1/4" from the muzzle face. I then pillar bedded the action. These modifications in addition to the Timney trigger (trigger pull set to 2 pounds) I installed make for a very light, fast pointing & accurate deer rifle with 2" less barrel (20" barrel after cutting & recess crowning) to catch onto switches & alders in the bush. I'm getting tiny 3 shot "keyhole" groups (all shots touching) @ 100 yards with a hand load containing H-Varget powder & the 150 grain Nosler Partition spitzer bullet. I think the muzzle brake ports make the gun look rather amateurish somewhat like a kids “Star Wars” toy. It also causes the barrel to forcefully “bottom out” on the barrel channel if you attempt to free float the barrel by removing the contact points.
I finally “circumcised” my VTR in .308 Winchester by removing the muzzle brake just behind the rearmost port. I recess crowned the remaining barrel the standard 1/4″ from the muzzle face. I then pillar bedded the action.
These modifications in addition to the Timney trigger (trigger pull set to 2 pounds) I installed make for a very light, fast pointing & accurate deer rifle with 2″ less barrel (20″ barrel after cutting & recess crowning) to catch onto switches & alders in the bush.
I’m getting tiny 3 shot “keyhole” groups (all shots touching) @ 100 yards with a hand load containing H-Varget powder & the 150 grain Nosler Partition spitzer bullet.

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]]> By: Rich http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/02/22/engineers-perspective-on-the-remington-700-vtr-triangular-barrel/comment-page-1/#comment-55879 Rich Sat, 19 Feb 2011 06:06:37 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5247#comment-55879 I just bought a Remington 700 VTR 308 and the first thing I noticed was the cheap injection molded stock. It seemed pretty solid but it didn't weigh enough for a 308. First thing I did was add some lead sinkers to the fore grip and the butt stock. I filled in the rest of the forearm with liquid nails and to make sure it stayed solid I used a small cutting disk and cut in some mechanical locks on all 4 sides of each small chamber. The butt stock I filled in all the way with some of the expanding foam crack filler in a can. Awesome stuff. I put a total of 8 pounds into this rifle and now it feels perfect. After the liquid nails dried i ground enough of the material out to free float the barrel. After break in I tested it at 100, 300, 600, and 1000 yards. This gun really like the heavier rounds. It shot moa at 1000 yards with Sierra Match King 175 grain. This is a great rifle and i would reccomend it to anyone. But the stock needs work or replaced. Its the only downfall of this rifle. I just bought a Remington 700 VTR 308 and the first thing I noticed was the cheap injection molded stock. It seemed pretty solid but it didn’t weigh enough for a 308. First thing I did was add some lead sinkers to the fore grip and the butt stock. I filled in the rest of the forearm with liquid nails and to make sure it stayed solid I used a small cutting disk and cut in some mechanical locks on all 4 sides of each small chamber. The butt stock I filled in all the way with some of the expanding foam crack filler in a can. Awesome stuff. I put a total of 8 pounds into this rifle and now it feels perfect. After the liquid nails dried i ground enough of the material out to free float the barrel. After break in I tested it at 100, 300, 600, and 1000 yards. This gun really like the heavier rounds. It shot moa at 1000 yards with Sierra Match King 175 grain.

This is a great rifle and i would reccomend it to anyone. But the stock needs work or replaced. Its the only downfall of this rifle.

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]]> By: Graham http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/02/22/engineers-perspective-on-the-remington-700-vtr-triangular-barrel/comment-page-1/#comment-52078 Graham Thu, 06 Jan 2011 03:59:11 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5247#comment-52078 While i can say that the idea is unique in its self, and the physical data is interesting- there are a number of things that would potentially draw concern to myself. How does the heat have effect on the barrel, over prolonged repetitive use? The easiest way i could construct this design if i were to attempt reproduction would be to turn the barrel as normal - Round- stress relieve - cut or button the rifling, and then mill the flats. My guess is that it would be the process used already. Now - what is the likelihood that all the flats are milled within extremely tight tolerances during mass production - with tool wear taken in to consideration? If one flat is off say .0002- to .0010 how much effect will this have on the overall harmonics, as well as effect over the heat during the natural relaxation of the metal? Could this design be implemented on magnum calibers and or .50bmg? With my own inspection of the VTR the main thing that jumps out to eye- is the godly barrel ports. The flat cut ports look as if they came from a entry level machinist that got his hands on a end mill. How much effect does this have on the barrel gasses, muzzle rise, sight picture, recoil, and so forth? If this was not done would it have had a effect on the muzzle crown - and escaping gasses leaving the muzzle? - from high pressure to low pressure- i think there was too much effort put in to a good idea. While remington is known for its ability to produce a good off the shelf barrel - they are also like all barrels in the essence that each one likes its own load that it handles. One guys vtr might like a hotter load- and heavier grain - then the others. Depending on what the twist rate is - there could be a endless number of factors. But On the other hand - round barrels have had tens of thousands of design changes - and time trials. While I like the design- minus the barrel ports, I myself will have to stick with the simpler design of using a round barrel. Now - if they start producing this barrel design with ports 120 degrees apart and out of inconel, then i might be one of the many ready to jump on the band wagon. Also if anyone would be interested in using their VTR as a test subject- check consistency of flats, ID, OD, and overall change after the barrel has been heated up. I would be very interested to see how close the tolerances are, as well as how well the design react when in repetitive use! While i can say that the idea is unique in its self, and the physical data is interesting- there are a number of things that would potentially draw concern to myself. How does the heat have effect on the barrel, over prolonged repetitive use? The easiest way i could construct this design if i were to attempt reproduction would be to turn the barrel as normal – Round- stress relieve – cut or button the rifling, and then mill the flats. My guess is that it would be the process used already. Now – what is the likelihood that all the flats are milled within extremely tight tolerances during mass production – with tool wear taken in to consideration? If one flat is off say .0002- to .0010 how much effect will this have on the overall harmonics, as well as effect over the heat during the natural relaxation of the metal? Could this design be implemented on magnum calibers and or .50bmg?
With my own inspection of the VTR the main thing that jumps out to eye- is the godly barrel ports. The flat cut ports look as if they came from a entry level machinist that got his hands on a end mill. How much effect does this have on the barrel gasses, muzzle rise, sight picture, recoil, and so forth? If this was not done would it have had a effect on the muzzle crown – and escaping gasses leaving the muzzle? – from high pressure to low pressure- i think there was too much effort put in to a good idea. While remington is known for its ability to produce a good off the shelf barrel – they are also like all barrels in the essence that each one likes its own load that it handles. One guys vtr might like a hotter load- and heavier grain – then the others. Depending on what the twist rate is – there could be a endless number of factors. But On the other hand – round barrels have had tens of thousands of design changes – and time trials. While I like the design- minus the barrel ports, I myself will have to stick with the simpler design of using a round barrel. Now – if they start producing this barrel design with ports 120 degrees apart and out of inconel, then i might be one of the many ready to jump on the band wagon. Also if anyone would be interested in using their VTR as a test subject- check consistency of flats, ID, OD, and overall change after the barrel has been heated up. I would be very interested to see how close the tolerances are, as well as how well the design react when in repetitive use!

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]]> By: james h http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/02/22/engineers-perspective-on-the-remington-700-vtr-triangular-barrel/comment-page-1/#comment-49299 james h Sat, 11 Dec 2010 04:06:07 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5247#comment-49299 well guys i have one ..2000 rounds through it and i shoot eggs at 300 yards with about a 90% hit rate..and from a bipod andna small sandbag or holding it in a loose grip..."not a bench rest"......the gun is extremly acurate if you are...1/4 to 1/2 moa is normal with hornady 168 tap for me out to 300 ( thats all we have to shoot at here)...i cannot ask for more for a gun cost in 6-700 dollers.or 2000 for that matter... dont get caught up in to much science disscusion..the boiled egges explode when you shoot them..thats what matters...clay pigions are easy.... and a cantalope is a no brainer if you get my drift.. a b-27 would be like shooting a buick... well guys i have one ..2000 rounds through it and i shoot eggs at 300 yards with about a 90% hit rate..and from a bipod andna small sandbag or holding it in a loose grip…”not a bench rest”……the gun is extremly acurate if you are…1/4 to 1/2 moa is normal with hornady 168 tap for me out to 300 ( thats all we have to shoot at here)…i cannot ask for more for a gun cost in 6-700 dollers.or 2000 for that matter…

dont get caught up in to much science disscusion..the boiled egges explode when you shoot them..thats what matters…clay pigions are easy…. and a cantalope is a no brainer if you get my drift.. a b-27 would be like shooting a buick…

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]]> By: MIKE http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/02/22/engineers-perspective-on-the-remington-700-vtr-triangular-barrel/comment-page-1/#comment-46985 MIKE Mon, 15 Nov 2010 16:51:35 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5247#comment-46985 Thanks Mark,I forgot to put in that it is a wood stock.Also it dawned on me,after I emailed you, that I switched from new Federal Power Shock 130gr.(270) to Winchester Power Point 130gr.I was out of the Fed.So I tried the Win. and the Win. is from my dad and is from about 40 years old! I guess my mind isn't "grouping" a good as it used to.I'll leave everything as is and work up some hand loads.Thanks again,Mike Thanks Mark,I forgot to put in that it is a wood stock.Also it dawned on me,after I emailed you, that I switched from new Federal Power Shock 130gr.(270) to Winchester Power Point 130gr.I was out of the Fed.So I tried the Win. and the Win. is from my dad and is from about 40 years old! I guess my mind isn’t “grouping” a good as it used to.I’ll leave everything as is and work up some hand loads.Thanks again,Mike

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]]> By: Mark http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/02/22/engineers-perspective-on-the-remington-700-vtr-triangular-barrel/comment-page-1/#comment-46557 Mark Mon, 08 Nov 2010 23:29:13 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5247#comment-46557 Not many BDL's had the barrel floated. It's something usually done to the precision rifles. If your BDL has a factory synthetic stock, chances are, it was never floated. Some of the wood stocks were floated, but it was almost unintentional. Yours may have left the factory with a slight gap between the barrel and the stock and over time, the stock has shifted and come to rest on the barrel. That might explain the group change. The synthetic stocks can't be floated without major gutting (Unless you have a factory fiberglass stock... not the black or green plastic) I have a Bell and Carlson fiberglass and I can slide 4 dollar bills all the way to the recoil lug. If you decide to try to float the barrel, remember that just because it doesn't touch when you set the action back into the stock doesn't mean it will stay that way with the screws tight and the weight of the gun resting on the forend. Not many BDL’s had the barrel floated. It’s something usually done to the precision rifles. If your BDL has a factory synthetic stock, chances are, it was never floated. Some of the wood stocks were floated, but it was almost unintentional. Yours may have left the factory with a slight gap between the barrel and the stock and over time, the stock has shifted and come to rest on the barrel. That might explain the group change. The synthetic stocks can’t be floated without major gutting (Unless you have a factory fiberglass stock… not the black or green plastic) I have a Bell and Carlson fiberglass and I can slide 4 dollar bills all the way to the recoil lug. If you decide to try to float the barrel, remember that just because it doesn’t touch when you set the action back into the stock doesn’t mean it will stay that way with the screws tight and the weight of the gun resting on the forend.

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]]> By: MIKE http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/02/22/engineers-perspective-on-the-remington-700-vtr-triangular-barrel/comment-page-1/#comment-46530 MIKE Mon, 08 Nov 2010 16:08:52 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5247#comment-46530 Is my Remington 700 BDL supposed to have a floating barrel.A dollar bill won't slide down the barrel.The bill won't get passed about 2" down from the tip of the forearm.It used to shoot 1" groups.Now 1.5 to 2" is the norm. Is my Remington 700 BDL supposed to have a floating barrel.A dollar bill won’t slide down the barrel.The bill won’t get passed about 2″ down from the tip of the forearm.It used to shoot 1″ groups.Now 1.5 to 2″ is the norm.

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]]> By: Douglas Price http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/02/22/engineers-perspective-on-the-remington-700-vtr-triangular-barrel/comment-page-1/#comment-45299 Douglas Price Sat, 23 Oct 2010 20:29:20 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5247#comment-45299 Consistent tiny groups trump a wall covered with engineering degrees & written opinions chock full of "fourteen dollar" jargon terms. Either the bullet arrives where the cross-hairs meet or it doesn't. Keep the simple stuff simple. Consistent tiny groups trump a wall covered with engineering degrees & written opinions chock full of “fourteen dollar” jargon terms.
Either the bullet arrives where the cross-hairs meet or it doesn’t.
Keep the simple stuff simple.

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]]> By: Mark http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/02/22/engineers-perspective-on-the-remington-700-vtr-triangular-barrel/comment-page-1/#comment-44632 Mark Sat, 16 Oct 2010 11:45:32 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5247#comment-44632 I'm beginning to accept that the people who own these rifles will continue to tout their accuracy while the engineers and scentists will tear the design apart. The claims of being an engineer mean very little to me when it comes down to who to trust on things like this. I have to deal with engineers constantly on design flaws that stem from a lack of understanding of how the consumer needs something to work vs. what looks good on paper. What does hold it's ground in this argument is the tiny group holes produced by quality ammunition fired from a well designed firearm. When lives are on the line or supper is in the crosshairs, the evidence of those groups will always trump your engineering degree. I’m beginning to accept that the people who own these rifles will continue to tout their accuracy while the engineers and scentists will tear the design apart. The claims of being an engineer mean very little to me when it comes down to who to trust on things like this. I have to deal with engineers constantly on design flaws that stem from a lack of understanding of how the consumer needs something to work vs. what looks good on paper. What does hold it’s ground in this argument is the tiny group holes produced by quality ammunition fired from a well designed firearm. When lives are on the line or supper is in the crosshairs, the evidence of those groups will always trump your engineering degree.

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]]> By: Scott http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/02/22/engineers-perspective-on-the-remington-700-vtr-triangular-barrel/comment-page-1/#comment-44612 Scott Fri, 15 Oct 2010 20:31:59 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5247#comment-44612 No offense to Mr. Riddell, but he basically acknowledges that this barrel shape will cause some unusual harmonics, then contradicts himself by stating that it would be "better than round". Experience with triangular structural members for bridges or buildings has little to do with a rifle barrel. I am an engineer myself (mechanical), and I have specific research experience with rifles and what happens when they are fired. Let's just say that I live quite close to Elizabethtown, KY.... A uniformly round barrel gives the most predictable harmonic reaction every time. The key word there is predictable. In terms of accuracy, it does not matter what the barrel does when it is fired as long you can make it do the exact same thing every time. No offense to Mr. Riddell, but he basically acknowledges that this barrel shape will cause some unusual harmonics, then contradicts himself by stating that it would be “better than round”.

Experience with triangular structural members for bridges or buildings has little to do with a rifle barrel. I am an engineer myself (mechanical), and I have specific research experience with rifles and what happens when they are fired. Let’s just say that I live quite close to Elizabethtown, KY…. A uniformly round barrel gives the most predictable harmonic reaction every time. The key word there is predictable. In terms of accuracy, it does not matter what the barrel does when it is fired as long you can make it do the exact same thing every time.

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]]> By: Harry HH http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/02/22/engineers-perspective-on-the-remington-700-vtr-triangular-barrel/comment-page-1/#comment-39517 Harry HH Thu, 29 Jul 2010 03:19:28 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5247#comment-39517 Some 10 years ago I sold my hunting rifle. (Life interfered with my hunting/shooting hobby). However, now that I am retired I can go and hunt deer/elk again in my home state of Colorado. So I started to shop for a new 308 hunting rifle. Today I found a brand new VTR that fit me perfectly. Since the price was right and I liked all your comments, I decided to buy it. So “thanks” to all posters for sharing your opinions on this rifle. It is very much appreciated. I have two questions: 1. I wonder if there is a certain brand ammo/bullet grain that seems to work best with this rifle. 2. Some years ago I bought a brand new Burris Signature Scope 2.5x-10 on a sports shop closing auction. (Again, the price was right). Can anybody tell me if that scope would work OK with the VTR? Thanks much for helping me out with these two questions. Some 10 years ago I sold my hunting rifle. (Life interfered with my hunting/shooting hobby). However, now that I am retired I can go and hunt deer/elk again in my home state of Colorado. So I started to shop for a new 308 hunting rifle. Today I found a brand new VTR that fit me perfectly. Since the price was right and I liked all your comments, I decided to buy it. So “thanks” to all posters for sharing your opinions on this rifle. It is very much appreciated.

I have two questions:
1. I wonder if there is a certain brand ammo/bullet grain that seems to work best with this rifle.
2. Some years ago I bought a brand new Burris Signature Scope 2.5x-10 on a sports shop closing auction. (Again, the price was right). Can anybody tell me if that scope would work OK with the VTR?
Thanks much for helping me out with these two questions.

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]]> By: Thanks http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/02/22/engineers-perspective-on-the-remington-700-vtr-triangular-barrel/comment-page-1/#comment-36635 Thanks Mon, 21 Jun 2010 03:14:44 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5247#comment-36635 Mr. Price: Figured out the .223. Hornady 52 grain BTHP with 23 grains of Varget. One hole at 100. I was thinking the same as you for a minute, even contacted Remington. They were going to fix for free. Love the two VTR so much I bought a 3rd in 22-250. Great Gun. R. Sedlmajer Mr. Price:

Figured out the .223. Hornady 52 grain BTHP with 23 grains of Varget. One hole at 100. I was thinking the same as you for a minute, even contacted Remington. They were going to fix for free. Love the two VTR so much I bought a 3rd in 22-250. Great Gun.

R. Sedlmajer

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]]> By: Douglas Price http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/02/22/engineers-perspective-on-the-remington-700-vtr-triangular-barrel/comment-page-1/#comment-36613 Douglas Price Sun, 20 Jun 2010 11:49:11 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5247#comment-36613 Concerned: The .223 might have a bad barrel, perhaps a damaged or malformed crown. Doesn't happen often, but it happens. Concerned:

The .223 might have a bad barrel, perhaps a damaged or malformed crown.
Doesn’t happen often, but it happens.

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]]> By: axemanzack http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/02/22/engineers-perspective-on-the-remington-700-vtr-triangular-barrel/comment-page-1/#comment-36612 axemanzack Sun, 20 Jun 2010 06:54:38 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5247#comment-36612 Finished sniper school 4 weeks ago at GPSsniper school... Great school! I used my VTR for the class and farthest shot was a spay paint can at 1365 yards and yes I have witnesses...lol The VTR is a great design! I have also put a H-S precision stock, timney trigger, leupold 3.5 - 10 x 44 mark 4 m3 scope, and of course camo paint job. Ammo was 175 grain HPBT Black hills match grade ammo. Point is this barrel design works great! I am very happy with the performance of this rifle and definitely recomend it to anyone out there. And a huge thanks to Rob and Nate at GPS for the training they gave me...Once again, Great School! Finished sniper school 4 weeks ago at GPSsniper school… Great school! I used my VTR for the class and farthest shot was a spay paint can at 1365 yards and yes I have witnesses…lol The VTR is a great design! I have also put a H-S precision stock, timney trigger, leupold 3.5 – 10 x 44 mark 4 m3 scope, and of course camo paint job.

Ammo was 175 grain HPBT Black hills match grade ammo.

Point is this barrel design works great! I am very happy with the performance of this rifle and definitely recomend it to anyone out there. And a huge thanks to Rob and Nate at GPS for the training they gave me…Once again, Great School!

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]]> By: Mark http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/02/22/engineers-perspective-on-the-remington-700-vtr-triangular-barrel/comment-page-1/#comment-36596 Mark Sat, 19 Jun 2010 20:29:02 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5247#comment-36596 I love the ignorance displayed by someone in such a rush to criticize something that they would make the statement, "Sorry, I didn’t get your patent number? I would like to see that. I couldn’t find anything after I did a patent search." when the patent number is listed below the diagram that is included with the authors description of the patent. "From Riddell’s Structural Member and System patent (#4007574)" And yes it is listed in the U.S. patent registry. And like I have told numerous other people that want to pick apart the design, it works... PERIOD. Find a way to make an S or W shaped gun barrel and I'm all ears. I love the ignorance displayed by someone in such a rush to criticize something that they would make the statement, “Sorry, I didn’t get your patent number? I would like to see that. I couldn’t find anything after I did a patent search.” when the patent number is listed below the diagram that is included with the authors description of the patent. “From Riddell’s Structural Member and System patent (#4007574)” And yes it is listed in the U.S. patent registry. And like I have told numerous other people that want to pick apart the design, it works… PERIOD. Find a way to make an S or W shaped gun barrel and I’m all ears.

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]]> By: snelson http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/02/22/engineers-perspective-on-the-remington-700-vtr-triangular-barrel/comment-page-1/#comment-36566 snelson Fri, 18 Jun 2010 13:37:48 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5247#comment-36566 a) Sorry, I didn't get your patent number? I would like to see that. I couldn't find anything after I did a patent search. b) I think you need to go and read Beers' Mechanics of Materials (industry standard text, which I'm sure you know being a PE and all), because your analysis of the surface area of the extrusion and the flexural stiffness of the section is completely wrong. Can you explain to me why the construction industry is still using the completely inefficient S or W section structural steel instead of your more efficient design? c) I suggest you find some legal representation and get some royalties from Remington for using your design. Good Luck a) Sorry, I didn’t get your patent number? I would like to see that. I couldn’t find anything after I did a patent search.
b) I think you need to go and read Beers’ Mechanics of Materials (industry standard text, which I’m sure you know being a PE and all), because your analysis of the surface area of the extrusion and the flexural stiffness of the section is completely wrong. Can you explain to me why the construction industry is still using the completely inefficient S or W section structural steel instead of your more efficient design?
c) I suggest you find some legal representation and get some royalties from Remington for using your design.

Good Luck

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]]> By: Concerned http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/02/22/engineers-perspective-on-the-remington-700-vtr-triangular-barrel/comment-page-1/#comment-30513 Concerned Sat, 10 Apr 2010 06:38:01 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5247#comment-30513 I have the VTR in .308 caliber and can shoot sub 1" group all day. This gun has a Leupold Gold Ring 12X fixed scope. Absolutely love it. But...I have the VTR in .223 caliber and I cant get the groups within 1.5" So I free floated the barrel, bedded the action and upgraded to a Sightron SIII 8-32X56 scope, shot it today and the groups got worse. I am going to start the load process again. 40-55 grain bullets just dont work with the fast twist, my best groups came from a 60 grain v-max with 26.6 grains of varget. I tried the 69 grain a max but was still under performing. I hear alot of excellent comments on the 308. Anybody have any good news about the 223. Please send me load data at rsedlmajer@hotmail Thanks. I have the VTR in .308 caliber and can shoot sub 1″ group all day. This gun has a Leupold Gold Ring 12X fixed scope. Absolutely love it.

But…I have the VTR in .223 caliber and I cant get the groups within 1.5″ So I free floated the barrel, bedded the action and upgraded to a Sightron SIII 8-32X56 scope, shot it today and the groups got worse. I am going to start the load process again. 40-55 grain bullets just dont work with the fast twist, my best groups came from a 60 grain v-max with 26.6 grains of varget. I tried the 69 grain a max but was still under performing.

I hear alot of excellent comments on the 308. Anybody have any good news about the 223. Please send me load data at rsedlmajer@hotmail

Thanks.

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]]> By: twilson http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/02/22/engineers-perspective-on-the-remington-700-vtr-triangular-barrel/comment-page-1/#comment-28746 twilson Wed, 17 Mar 2010 16:23:29 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5247#comment-28746 Scopes: real happy with my Vortex 3.5-10 X 50! Check them out... http://www.vortexoptics.com/ My next upgrade will be Dednutz scope mounts. http://www.dnzproducts.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=4 Scopes: real happy with my Vortex 3.5-10 X 50! Check them out…
http://www.vortexoptics.com/

My next upgrade will be Dednutz scope mounts.
http://www.dnzproducts.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=4

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]]> By: Mark http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/02/22/engineers-perspective-on-the-remington-700-vtr-triangular-barrel/comment-page-1/#comment-28684 Mark Wed, 17 Mar 2010 01:34:38 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=5247#comment-28684 I doubt that the Nikon is your problem. You may have something loose in your mounts if it's not grouping the way it should. Cheap ammunition can do the same thing. Good ammunition can too. Black hills match .308 won't group as well out of mine as Hornady TAP. It's some of the best out there, but the gun doesn't like it. And of course it could be the shooter. I don't know your background or training or your ability, so... If you just want to change scopes, Some of the Bushnell Elite scopes are good, Burris XTR's are nice, but I've never seen a Leupold with a bad rep. Personally, once you get past the retarded name, I still stand behind my S/S scope, formerly known as the super sniper. dumb name, but one of the most reliable scopes I've ever owned. With the small calibers of the VTR's, a fixed 10x would work fine for you. If you get good enough, you can use the mil-dot to range your game. I've taken head shots on deer out to 315yds with mine. Off a bag I can hit half gallon jugs at 500. It's no bench gun, but I didn't have to spend $4000 to make it shoot that tight. Do your research, read all the blogs, but in the end, it's going to come down to which one fits YOU best. I doubt that the Nikon is your problem. You may have something loose in your mounts if it’s not grouping the way it should. Cheap ammunition can do the same thing. Good ammunition can too. Black hills match .308 won’t group as well out of mine as Hornady TAP. It’s some of the best out there, but the gun doesn’t like it. And of course it could be the shooter. I don’t know your background or training or your ability, so… If you just want to change scopes, Some of the Bushnell Elite scopes are good, Burris XTR’s are nice, but I’ve never seen a Leupold with a bad rep. Personally, once you get past the retarded name, I still stand behind my S/S scope, formerly known as the super sniper. dumb name, but one of the most reliable scopes I’ve ever owned. With the small calibers of the VTR’s, a fixed 10x would work fine for you. If you get good enough, you can use the mil-dot to range your game. I’ve taken head shots on deer out to 315yds with mine. Off a bag I can hit half gallon jugs at 500. It’s no bench gun, but I didn’t have to spend $4000 to make it shoot that tight. Do your research, read all the blogs, but in the end, it’s going to come down to which one fits YOU best.

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