AT-14: The .410 AR-15 Shotgun

at-14-tm.jpg

Yes, you did you the title correctly. American Tactical Imports are bringing the Safir Arms T-14 stateside and calling it the AT-14.

At-14
T-14 Classic

Now you are probably asking yourself why would someone want such a gun? When I first learnt about the T-14 a few months ago I asked the same question. The T-14 is very popular in Europe. Many countries, including Turkey where the T-14 is manufactured, either ban semi-automatic rifles or make it hard to own one. This gun is the closest thing the average citizen can get to owning an AR-15.

So why is ATI bringing them to the USA where AR-15s are plentiful? I wondered about this myself. First of all they could be a popular hunting arm for AR-15 enthusiast for use in shotgun only hunting areas (I don’t hunt with a shotgun, so correct me if I am wrong). Ed Friedman made a good point that with the new self defense .410 ammunition from Federal this gun could make a good self defense weapon when over penetration is a concern. A .410 slug should give similar performance to a .357 Magnum.

 Images Safirsilah
The ATI advertisement.

Guns.ru describe the gas system as follows:

The gas system utilizes annual (ring-type) short-stroke gas piston, located around the barrel

Picture 7-20
T-14 disassembly. One BIG spring

The gun can be seen in action in this youtube video:

ATI will be importing the Classic model and the Compact model. Both feature a A2 carry handle style upper receiver, fixed stock and 20″ barrel. The only different is the length of the handguard.

Picture 12-19
AT-14 Classic

Picture 11-22
AT-14 Compact

According to Ed a 5 round and 15 round magazine will be available. I have read that AR-15 magazines can be converted to hold 10 .410 rounds. Ed hopes to review the shotgun in an upcoming issue of Guns and Hunting.

UPDATE: The MSRP is $979 and dealer price is $800. They should be available shortly (thanks War Wolf and Todd for the info).

Related

Steve Johnson

Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.


More In: AR-15, Rifles, Shotguns


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  • Pete

    If somebody were to make rimless .410, this could be very cool. That way you could double stack the mag and easily have 25-30 rd mags. Come to think of it, why has no one ever made rimless shotgun shells (aside from pistol cal shotshells)?

  • Pete

    For instance, if somebody made rimless 12GA, then Saiga 12′s would instantly become WAYYY more practicable.

  • http://www.thegunzone.com/556dw.html Daniel E. Watters

    If shotshells were rimless, they wouldn’t be able to maintain proper headspace. Remember, loaded shotshells are shorter than the chamber. The difference in chamber length allows the crimped hull to unfold.

    At best, you could hope for a belted shotshell, instead of a rim. While there wouldn’t be much difference in width, at least then you would have fewer issues with rims interlocking.

  • Don

    I was never a huge fan of the AR (big M14 fan), though this thing is really cool. It’s a shame it’s a smooth bore. A sabot slug would be great in that thing. So would shooting trap.

    -Don

  • ZerCool

    At least here in NY, the .410 is not legal for large game hunting – DEC regs require a minimum of 20ga.

    While it would be theoretically possible to hunt birds or small game with the .410, I don’t see the AR as being the ideal platform for that. Accurate shotgunning is about smooth swing and follow-through… I don’t find that with an AR.

    • jason

      I agree the round should be bigger i can buy 50 rnds. Of 12 g shells for the same price for 10 ends. Of 410 shells they are way over priced

  • http://votefordavid.blogspot.com Vote For David

    Do we already have an early contender for waffenposselhaft 2009?

  • R.A.W.

    Interesting choice; going with the annular piston. A few other designs, like the VZ-52 and the Steyr ACR candidate also use a piston that surrounds the barrel like that.

  • UraniumHead

    Rimless shotgun shells are unfeasible because all shotgun shells are shorter than their stated length when unfired. This is because the end of the the shell has either a star crimp (for shot charges) or a roll crimp (for slugs) to contain the payload in the cartridge. For example, a 2.75in shell is more like 2.5in before firing. With no fixed length there is no way to headspace the shell without a rim.

  • http://springfield1903.blogspot.com/ 22lr

    Ok a definite buy.

  • AughtSix

    I believe the shell headspaces on the rim. The chamber is long enough for the front of the shell to unfold, so I don’t think it could headspace there. So, take away the rim, and it won’t work. Not insurmountable, but there’s no shoulder to headspace on, and you need clearance at the mouth, headspacing there would be problematic.

  • Cabot

    Does anybody know how much these cost?

  • War Wolf

    I called ATI and they said that the first batch is already in-country and is currently being engraved with their logo. They should be available to dealers within two weeks. MSRP is $979. Dealer price is rather attractive too.

    • http://www.thefirearmblog.com Steve

      War Wolf, thanks very much for finding that out. I have updated the blog post.

  • Kyle Huff

    Annular, not annual.
    Must be a translation problem out of Russian.

  • http://nicholasdwolfwood.wordpress.com Wolfwood

    I can’t tell…is that a standard AR lower?

    • http://www.thefirearmblog.com Steve

      Wolfwood, I am not sure about that. I wondered myself.

  • http://www.billllsidlemind.blogspot.com Billll

    If one were to make a rimless shotgun shell, what’s to keep you from headspacing on the brass, and treat the front like a big plastic bullet? Make the brass a tad larger to keep it out of conventional shotguns, and the rim on the conventional shell will keep the new gun from going into battery with the old ammo.

  • http://enemiesofthelibrary.blogspot.com Justthisguy

    Years ago, I looked at my copy of Cartridges of the World, and other references, and decided that a sawn-off and somewhat blown-out 20mm case would make an excellent rimless 12-gauge case. Failing that, we still have the Saiga 12. There are drum magazines available for it. At the moment.

    • http://www.thefirearmblog.com Steve

      Justthisguy, the problem is cost :( No one would buy them because the cost of the brass. One of the problems with using a stacked magazine (as opposed to tube) with plastic shot shells is that if they stay in there long enough the cases can deform. Brass cases fix this problem but are very expensive, which is why you never see brass 12 guage, although they are available. Brass 12 guage can be seen in that western staring Russel Crow playing the good-guy-bandit (I forget the name).

  • jdun1911

    I’m not familiar with shotguns but if the 410 can fit into the magwell (or any cartridge), you can use a standard AR15 lower.

    • http://www.thefirearmblog.com Steve

      jdun1911, that depends on the upper design. It is an AR in spirit but I am not sure how much of an AR it is in practice. Standard AR magazine can be modified to take the .410 using a dremel tool so presumably they fit in the mag well.

  • jdun1911

    It would be foolish of them to not use the standard AR15 lower if that is the case.

  • tarkan

    http://www.domuzavcisi.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=2482
    http://www.domuzavcisi.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=375
    http://www.avcilarmekani.com/frmbaslik1104-baslangic30

    All websites about Safir T14 and wild boar hunting;I experienced it at range a friend of mine has one.Use federal ammo instead of cheap imitations like zuber spreads,ital 410s are good federal superb,do not use ammos other than slug,so this is a wild boar rifle not for birds. http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2344459//,like every semiauto even 0,5 gr more blackpowder makes a change,clean rifle at every 100 shots,if you are a shooter clean before storage,factory says every 200.Low recoil,comes with a beatiful pelican case,price in Turkey around 1000 USD has 4 different models.Factory is at Umraniye Istanbul;owners are ex special forces officers and NCOs who relied on M4s for their lives in their entire carriers,so the result was Safir,lovely to think all USA market M4 accessories suit them well,pointers,scopes,you name it.Wild boar shot claims differ alot,but 287 meter claim I saw on the web,happens like this I figure first shot before 100 mts,second when target tries running,second shot distances vary but do not take risks I say above are the results.Think of your shot buddy,dog and yourself.I hope laws wont change letting many people enjoys and owns this lovely rifle.I also ask myself why not M14 410 slug firing models for Safir,which will sell just fine.
    Lately I saw taurus has a 410 firing revolver?410 s on the run?

  • http://nicholasdwolfwood.wordpress.com Wolfwood

    I do like the concept, but 20″ is a bit long for me. If they made a NFA version at 14.5″ or less I think I might be all over this.

  • emdl

    I saw one of these at the SHOT Show. It’s an interesting idea and really a pretty good one for dealing with snakes and varmints(big and small) in the woods. Of course I have a Saiga 20ga (and wish I had bought the .420 version back when they were <$200) so I may be a little prejudice.

  • tarkan

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/11460565/Safir-T14
    I think everybody should try Safir without prejudice,you will love many features of it plus you can put many accessories on it available on the market.Stoppping power can be seen from links above,best is you find all yourself.

    • http://www.thefirearmblog.com Steve

      tarkan, thanks for the link!

  • Overload in CO

    Could you use this in 3 gun?

  • AK™

    thats cool.

  • JEC

    Man, I really like this think. I’m not into the “fun gun” thing, but this would really be fun to play with. Not the best weapon to use for the defense side in my opinion …. only because I dont thing my agency would let the 410 thing fly. If only i had the money LOL for more toys

  • Brian

    Will this thing fire slugs ?

    • http://www.thefirearmblog.com Steve

      Brian, yes, defiantly. I think it is primary designed for slugs.

  • Tim Elliott

    I was thinking of Three gun as well… now to make it on the ar-10 platform in 12 guage!

  • 6x6pinz

    I picked one up as I am a 410 enthusiast. After putting 1250 rounds through it without trouble, all I can say is wow. I have the Saiga line of shotguns but this is totally different, not better just different. The ease at acquiring clay pidgeons and ground targets is amazing. What a great hunting gun this is going to turn out to be and the cool factor is off the charts.

    now I just need magazines that will hold some ammo

  • http://www.safirarms.com Kamil Arıkut

    I would like to thank every one of you who has shown interest in Safir Arms T-14 shotguns and for your comments , be it positive or negative.

    We are working very hard with the assistance of our friendly colleagues in ATI to bring more of our T-14 shotguns to the States. We are also growing our export base in Europe, Latin America and several other countries around the world. As a small company heavily relying on R&D
    we are also working on grooved and rifled models to present to our customers in the near future.

    We shall be very happy to hear your opinions and use them as part of our customer feed back.

    Kamil Arıkut
    Foreign Trade Director
    Safir Arms Industries

  • http://TheFirearmsBlog Dave Stanley

    Hey fellas … here is a place to get metallic brass. It can be reloaded. I have some metallic brass .410 brass from some Russian shells,but they have BOXER primers and are a pain to reload.These have the Berdan peimer pokeys that are eat to reload,,….Dave…..PS…I am having a hard time attachingbut they are at MIDWAYUSA firearms supplies site and are bags of 25 empty brass fully metallic shells in lots of 25. I am a .410 “BORE” nut too.

  • Keith Applegate

    Umm, D.S. you have that bass-ackwards. Those Russian shotshells are Berdan primed. The Magtech brass from Midway is Boxer primed and, like all of the older US produced all brass shotshells, are designed to be used with PISTOL primers not rifle primers.

    Boxer primers have a self contained anvil and the primer pocket in the case has a single flash hole. Just about every cartridge produced in the USA uses a Boxer primer as they make it extremely easy to deprime and reprime a cartridge case.

    It’s Berdan primers that feature the anvil machined (stamped) into the primer pocket and multiple flash holes. Berdan primers are heavily favored in Europe where civilian reloading is nearly unheard of. While you can reload Berdan cases it is a very laborous procedure an the primers themselves are nearly impossible to find in America.

    The irony of it all is that the Boxer primer so popular in the US was invented by an Englishman named Edward Boxer (of course) while the Berdan primer which is rarely encountered in US produced ammunition had been developed a few years earlier by Colonel Hiram Berdan, famous for his “Berdan’s Sharpshooters” of the War Between The States, who was an American.

  • http://www.griv.net/GrivNet Griv

    So, how does this fine looking weapon compare with the Saiga 410? I have a Saiga and have found it to be very reliable, based on the AK47, basically the best thing Russia ever built, but I came across this gun and I like the look.

    What length shells can it accept and how reliable is it? The Saiga fires 3” shells but there is a special magazine that allows for 2.5” rounds to be fired properly. I use the Winchester 3” 000 Bucks as well as the Silver Bear zinc powdered metal shell sabots.

    Thanks.

  • http://TheFirearmsBlog Dave Stanley

    Thank you for helping me out with the primer situation. I had just came home from the dentists office where I had two teeth pulled. I had broken one and had to have a little emergency surgery so my spelling was off by a long shot. The primer thing I honestly just had backasswards. I shoot a lot of the Russian GOLDEN BEAR ammo that comes in the two and three quarter inch length brass shell. It holds 5 pellets. Their web site is http://www.bearammo.com…In my hometown it comes in a little purple box with 5 shotshells for $4. Once in a while I have to fire the same shell twice in my single shot H&R .410 ,but it always fires the second whack with the hammer. I think the primers might be a little thick skinned,but I find this is an awesome round. A 15 shot mag could send 75 good sized pellets down range in no time. I know there are many arm chair warriors that will dis agree,but I would love to have a Safir loaded with a mag of Bear Ammo for a home defense weapon. I know of NO thief that would try and stand in the doorway and argue with this gun blasting away at him. If he did I doubt if he would be there long.

  • http://TheFirearmsBlog Dave Stanley

    I want one…..As a matter of fact…..I’ll probably buy two. One for the house and one for the car. My younger brother will probably want two….Guarantee he’ll buy at least one. I also have 3-4 cousins…..I KNOW for a fact that will get one a piece…..Send a bunch when you get them…..It will probably pay you well if you put those young Turks working overtime for a while at the factory…..That will give them plenty of $$$$$$ for a summer holiday.It would be nice to have them over to America to see us enjoying their work on the range shooting the weapons…..just a thought…..

  • adnan K

    i didnt even know these were already being important until i saw one for sale at a local firearms dealer. not sure how much they wanted because the one they had was already sold so i didnt bother asking the price. i dont really know much about the .410 as i dont own any shotguns in that bore. but im thinking of purchasing one just because it looks nice. and the best part is, its legal up here in NY so long as it dont have the collapsible stock and the magazine capacity is not more then 10 (im not sure about 10 as it may be 5 for shotguns)

  • adnan K

    whoops i meant to say “imported” not “important”. i should have double read before hitting the submit button

  • Manzahn

    I just bought an AT-14. Failure to feed has been a problem. The fired casings are trapped by the rising next round. Any suggestions?

    • http://www.thefirearmblog.com Steve

      Manzahn, what ammo are you using?

  • Mike

    Griv
    I have both the Saiga 410 and the Safir T14. The saiga will shoot anything while the Safir is a little picky, especially with shotshells.

    Manzahn
    Try a different brand of ammo. Also make sure the Safir is clean and well lubricated. While the AK platform will work under any condition the AR platform needs to be clean and well lubricated. If you continue to have problems after this contact ATI. They support there other products very well and I would expect the same with the Safir.

  • HardShell

    I bought one of these a couple of weeks back, the first one I saw/held. I have already posted my initial impressions and experiences on AR15.COM. I want to give it a much better workout with many more loads before making any pronouncements, but I like it so far. It seemed to feed the smooth-shell rounds just fine, but hung up every 2-3 rounds with teh ribbed ones. I will tell you that the sight of busting clays with an “AR” was almost worth the price of admission by itself!

  • Mike

    Hardshell, do you have a link to the AR15 board, their site engine bites!

  • HardShell
  • HardShell

    I will add that from fiddling around with it last night (as I described in the linked thread) it doesn’t appear to be completely interchangeable with standard AR lowers/uppers/magwells, at least not without some modifications.

  • Ryan

    Would be a great home defence platform, 410 ga. slugs , 10 rounds, detatchable mags…perfect.

  • Overload in CO

    Except .410 slugs are only 90 grains. Use a pistol caliber carbine instead.

    • http://www.thefirearmblog.com Steve

      .410 slugs are perform similar to .357 magnum (so I have read online).

  • Overload in CO

    I had the same question with regards to a Taurus Judge, which can shoot .410 or .45 Colt.
    A .45 Colt load is a 255gr bullet with a muzzle velocity of 961fps, for a muzzle energy of 523 ft/lbs.
    A .357magnum 158gr JSP muzzle V is 1240fps with 539 ft/lbs
    A .410 slug weighing 90gr muzzle V is 1830fps 651ft/lbs (out of rifle barrel)
    (all stats from wikipedia or winchester)

    So, yes it does have power of a .357 Magnum.

    or you could carry an M1 carbine in .30 carbine. 110gr bullet, 600fps, 880ft/lbs. 15 or 30 shot magazines.

    or a Carbine Conversion Unit for a 1911
    230gr bullet, 830fps, 352ft/lbs (out of a 5″ barrel so speed and energy would be higher) 7,8,10, or 15 round magazines.

    or .44 magnum out of a Ruger 99/44 Deerfield carbine….

    or an M4 .223 AR-15 with rifle rounds!

    I question the use of a rifle (minimum length 26 inches, usually longer) for the tight confines of home defense. I’ve seen TV shows and read articles that talk about home defense with a rifle, so there are those that support it.

  • Dan

    I bought one from Red’s Trading Post for $900

  • merle sullivan

    I purchased a 410 T-14 upper and was very excited about it because I hog hunt, and I thought this would be great in the brush, etc. I was told on the phone that it would shoot 3″ shells. I was terribly disappointed when it arrived to find that it will only use 2 3/4″ shells. I am going to keep it, but that does cut my firepower in half.
    I am putting this information out for those who might have the same question. Nowhere on the website does it state what ammo the gun uses.

  • http://msn rex18458

    does aney one know if the t-14 is leagle in n.j ?

  • cruzan

    I purchased my T14 new on gunbroker.com for $ 499 :) Yes, complete not upper – got lucky. It is a std. AR lower, I have purchased a DPMS 223 upper and it works great – A little bit “off” with the rear pin, but a slight tap with hammer and all is well. The T14 only takes 2.5″ shells, but will shoot anything – I prefer 000 . Fun to shoot, has been totally reliable, glad I got a great deal. I checked with Safirarms and ATI and they say 15 round mags ( I think it was 15 ) should be available soon, if not now. Three weeks ago ATI said they were expecting them any day, then they had to quality check and get out to distributors.

  • http://thefirearmblog b-man

    saw the t-14 what about 45 long colt .have taurs 45-410?

    • http://www.thefirearmblog.com Steve

      b-man, the T-17 cannot use .45 Long Colt – using it may be VERY dangerous.

  • http://www.safirarms.com Kamil Arıkut

    Dear Mr. Floyd,
    Again thnx for your interest in our product.
    For the time being, because of licencing and export regulation issues we can not produce rifled barrels.
    So our barrels are being manufactured in PA by an American manufacturer and our T 15 rifled model also assembled there will be on sale very soon all around US by ATI as AT 15. Keep checking their web pages.
    With best regards
    Kamil Arikut
    Foreign Trade Director

    SafirArms Ltd.Co.

  • 6x6pinz

    Rifled barrels all well and fine but what about higher capacity magazines?

  • cruzan

    Still can’t find any higher capacity magazines. I contacted Safir and they gave me ATI who gave me websites that are no good :( If anyone knows when and where they will be available – please post ! Thanks

  • Nobody

    Will the Communistic-Democratic party of the U.S allow those in California?

  • ace

    looking for info (as mentioned above) for modifying an AR mag to hold/feed .410.

  • Mike

    tried two mags and gave up. With the release of the 15round magazines I just went that way. A lot of time tig welding the feed lips in the correct position and fabricating a follower all to no avail.

    Good luck if you choose to pursue it, just seemed more cost effective to buy the ones already out there with higher capacity.

  • griv

    The comments on the unreliability were widely available when I was interested in the AT-14, so I ended up going with the Saiga .410. I upgraded the compression and the trigger springs and it has NO problem firing 25 round magazine after magazine. The Silver Bear .410 Sabot was actually designed specifically for that gun. There is also a magazine available that allows the use of 2.5 inch shells.

    The Saiga 12 gauge works great too and can handle different length shells in the same 12 round magazine. 2″, 2.5″, 2.75″ and 3″. That’s a lot of flexibility in what type of shell you need.

  • Mike

    25 round saiga magazine for the S410? I have a few of the drums for my S12 and 10 rounders for the S410 but have not seen the S410 25 rounders. My S20 gives me fits with different types of ammo but is reliable with the brands it likes.

    I have not had the issues with the AT 14 that some have had. It shoots very well even using the higher cap magazines. I still find the AT14 in need of some chokes so I can use it effectively for hunting birds.

  • GillAgin

    I found the 15 round mags at Cope’s Distributing INC. They say they’re for the T-14 AR-15 Uppers they sell, but I assume they would be the same for the complete Safir T-14 gun.

  • cruzan

    Found them at Cope’s too – 15 round mags ! Ordered a few days ago and got it fed ex today ! $ 19.99 !

  • cruzan

    Hold off on buying them, just tried to load shells and they are made too short and shells jam up and don’t feed ! I doubt I just got a bad one, I think they are made wrong !!! I’m waiting to hear back from Cope’s.

  • griv

    Oops, that would be 15 round magazines NOT 25 rounds. Sorry!

  • Bill

    anyone know what happened?
    I ordered a 14 from a gunstore three months ago and they couldnt find one for me, something about Safir sold the design to another company? new factory? or something like that. confusing, all I know is the gun store hated to give my check back to me.
    who is the new company,and when will the gun be available again?

  • Mookien

    I just bought an AT-14 upper and mated it to a DPMS lower with a Magpul 1LX50 adjustable stock. I have one question, and a comment that might help some future reader.

    Question: I understand that this gun is ammo sensitive, ie it won’t shoot and cycle just any .410 2 1/2 inch shotshell. What will it shoot well?

    A customer service rep. at ATI told me that I could use any roll-crimp (not star crimp) 2 1/2 inch shotshell and it should work fine. Well, not quite …

    I bought a box of roll-crimped Federal Premium .410 2 1/2 inch buckshot (4 pellets – 000 buck) and they are too long to fit in the magazine (but only by less than 1/16 inch). The box specifies “.410 HANDGUN” (eg Taurus Judge), so that alone may account for the incompatibility.

    Comment: With the set up described above the bolt would not lock in the open position unless I really yanked back on the charge handle. The guy at the gun store from whom I purchased the AT-14 had told me that the gun didn’t lock open, because it was designed to accomodate the .410 shotshells. I’m now pretty sure that is incorrect.

    Instead, the problem turned out to be caused by the Magpul stock. I guess the travel was not great enough for the bolt spring internal to the stock. I switched to a more vanilla stock (ACE LTD) and the problem disappeared. A gentle pull on the charge handle while holding down the bolt catch is now all that is necessary to lock open the bolt.

  • PoPo

    Has anyone heard of any law enfrocement using and/or test this weapon?

  • ace

    no, law enforcement will never use this. It’s a fun-gun, but not designed for serious tactical or abusive use.

  • WeaponBuilder

    I think Pete is onto something…

    It IS possible to headspace properly, and even more precisely through use of a proprietary bolt & barrel extension rather than having a rimmed case.

    Thanks for the excellent idea! That merits exploration for a future prototype.

  • griv

    I’d chuck the AT-14 and go with a Saiga .410. It’s not sensitive to ammo.

  • Far away

    Does anybody know what size shells the Safir T-14 .410 will hold 2.5″ shells or 3″ and can you shoot a rifled slug through a smooth bore shotgun? I bought one cause its an odd firearm and cant find out much about it.

  • ace

    Only shell I have found to fit the mags is the Federal Premium .410 handgun shell (personal defense). 000 buck shot, 4 pellets.

    OAL of this cartridge is 2.258″. So, and shell 2-1/4″ (loaded) should work. Anyone find any others?

    The mags I bought said 14 rounds, actual capacity is 13 rounds. Modification may yield 14 rounds, but the spring and mag-base could be compromised. IMO, not worth the effort. Mags are ATI brand.

  • ace

    BTW – some shells I have that are 2.3″ are too long.

  • GillAgin

    I found the ATI brand slugs at J&G Sales for $10.95 for a box of 25.
    I put 5 rounds of this through with no problems on a recent hog hunt. Good ammo at a great price made just for this gun.

    I requested J&G Sales to possibly carry some ATI brand of buck shot in the future, who knows maybe if enough of us request it they just might.

  • cruzan

    2.5″ shells work – slugs, OOO, just about any load. 3″ will not work. And as I posted earlier, stay away from Cope Distributing and the 15 round magazine from ATI. I bought mine for $ 19.99 from Cope’s and it no where near fits. You can tell from first look it is not right, and shells will hardly fit in it. I have sent numerous reqests for help to Cope, who I bought it from, and then cc’d ATI on two emails, and both have ignored me. I am throwing away the Mag.. My T14 eats just about any 2.5″ round I have put in it. I don’t believe there have been any changes in manufacturing, just that the are made in Turkey, then imported by ATI. Shop around though, as I mentioned earlier, although they have been selling for $ 1000 +, I purchased mine new on gunbroker for $ 499. I have put an AR-15 upper on it from time to time and no issues. Neat little “toy” :)

  • griv

    You are just wasting your time with the unreliable and over-priced AT-14 when you can own the Saiga .410 for less than half the cost with 5 times the reliability. The ability to fire 15 sabot slug rounds in a few seconds does not a toy make. Inter-mix with 000 buckshot and/or flechette shells and you have a devastating weapon to behold.

  • ace

    Cruzan, what mag are you using???

  • http://www.safirarms.com Kamil Arıkut

    Safir T 14 Ammo Info. Sheet

    Gentlemen,

    Due to our Safir T 14 shotguns’ sensitivity to especially American 2.5″ .410 cal ammo. , I am enclosing here a note I have prepared in conjunction with our experience of 2 years in the US market.

    Safir T 14 Ammunition Info Sheet:

    The shotgun shell standart to be used for Safir T 14 shotguns are 36 calibre x 65 mms. for Europe and .410 calibre x 65 mms for America. The length of the shotgun shell should be between 57 to 60.5 mms.(For American model guns 5.7 cm.s, for European style guns 6.05 cm.s) unexploded(closed) and maximum 65 mms. Exploded (closed).

    The shells can be filled with slugs, birdshots or buckshots. They all work well with Safir T 14.

    For American models of the gun we recommend Federal # 6, Estate #8, Remington #4 Long Range, #6 Long Range, #6 Field and 1/5 oz Slugs. No Winchester 2.5” ammo will fit, nor will Remington #9.

    For our European models certain shotgun shell model and makes like Remington Express (England), Remington Kleinbore (Germany), Vieri (French), Fiocchi, RC and Luxor (Italy) fit well and can be used.

    The best shotgun shell that is produced in Turkey for Safir shotguns are “Caliber 36 Palla Slug” by YAVASCALAR Company.This company also produces 36 cal. birdshot and buckshot shells.

    The Company info is :

    YAVAŞÇALAR AV SPOR MALZEMELERİ A.Ş.
    Atatürk Mahallesi,Bandırma Caddesi, No.49
    Balıkesir 10100 Turkey

    MAKBULE SUNAR-IMPORT/EXPORT DIRECTOR
    [email protected]
    FABRICA-Factory : 0090-266.266 13 00 – FAX : 0090-266.266 13 02

    Respectfully,

    Kamil Arikut
    Foreign Trade Director

    SafirArms Ltd.Co.
    TEL : +90 216 466 08 09
    FAX : +90 216 364 59 00
    WEB : http://www.safirarms.com
    E-MAIL : [email protected]

  • http://www.safirarms.com Kamil Arıkut

    Safir T 14 Ammo Info Sheet 2.

    I am also enclosing part of a review prepared by one of our informed customers Mr. Bob Weaver in the AR 15 forum, concerning American ammunition that work easily with Safir T 14 guns and uppers:

    AMMO: The Safir T 14 shotgun and upper is chambered for 2 1/2 inch shells but I have found that different manufacturers’ 2 1/2 inch shells are not the same size. Actually most 2 1/2 inch shells are between 2 5/16 and 2 3/8 inches. Some fit with no problems, some rub a bit but work and others are just too big.(that didn’t sound right). The following ammo works:
    Federal high brass, Remington Game loads(black shell, 20 per box), Remington Nitros(gold), and Winchester Super SPEED. Of these, Federal works best.
    Winchester Super SPORT will fit and run but they are a tight fit and some fail to load and get stuck in the magazine.
    Winchester Super X Rifled Slugs X41RS5 work great too.
    RIO does not fit, bought a case for my other .410 and these don’t fit. Anything under 2.3 inches should fit.
    I have found that it patterns really well with bird shot. I limited out several times this year. Shot slugs at the range and got 10 inch MOA at 50 yards with iron sights.
    Over all I love this thing. Some of my friends ask me why I bought it and what is the use of a .410 on an AR or that the .410 is obsolete these days and I reply, “Just because. It’s an AR that shoots .410, that’s why.” Keep it well lubed and use the maroon high brass Federal #6 shot and you will have a blast.

    Best regards.

    Kamil Arikut
    Foreign Trade Director

    SafirArms Ltd.Co.
    TEL : +90 216 466 08 09
    FAX : +90 216 364 59 00
    WEB : http://www.safirarms.com
    E-MAIL : [email protected]

  • http://www.thegunzone.com/556dw.html Daniel E. Watters

    Most folks don’t appreciate the fact that shotshell length is measured from the unfolded length of the hull, not the crimped length. Length is going vary with loaded shotshells due to the crimp style used, and as loaded, will be shorter than the stated length.

  • Patrick

    is this upper avalible in California

  • http://www.safirarms.com Kamil Arıkut

    Esteemed Safir Customers,

    We are glad to inform you that SAFIRARMS LLC,NJ will be operational by the end of July in Willingboro, NJ.
    We hope to serve you better in the States with our own import and dealing system and our service, parts and guarantee section.
    We shall also be producing T 15 (our .223 cal. semiauto model) and T 22 (our .22 rimfire model) in addition to Safir T 14 and its uppers.
    We have plans to add .308 and 5.7 models to our armory in the very near future.Hope you like our other models as much as Safir T 14.

    Wish to serve and help protect you guys in 3-4 months in the States.:-)

    Kamil Arikut
    Foreign Trade Director

    SafirArms Ltd.Co.
    TEL : +90 216 466 08 09
    FAX : +90 216 364 59 00
    WEB : http://www.safirarms.com
    E-MAIL : [email protected]

  • ace

    Kamil, Can you tell us all what is the bast magazine to use? I have a t-14 on a standard lower.

    I bought the ATI brand mags and it will only hold shells under 2.3 inches in length.

  • Andrew

    Soon as they make a gas-piston 2 3/4-3 1/2 in interchangeable, I’ll buy.

  • Andrew

    I mean in 12 ga.! Sorry!

  • http://www.safirarms.com Kamil Arıkut

    Dear Andrew,
    We do not intend to make a 12 gauge ever but we have plans to build a 20 gauge on our platform of Safir T 10, our .308 cal. which will be in the market by the end of this year. There is a Turkish company Ucyıldızlar that produce a 12 gauge as somewhat an AR-15 looking shotgun, but it is damned ugly. I can tell. :-)

    Dear Ace,
    The ATI brand mags are the mags that we have produced for them. They are the best for our mechanisms and upper too.And they are produced in accordance with size of the standart American ammo. Anyhow, I dont think there is another .410 cal mag on the market as far as I know. So choose your ammo good , use Federal No.6 or ATI ammo if they have left. We shall present our own ammo. to the market when we are operational.

    Regards to everybody

  • Mookien

    Kamil, et. al.,

    I have done a bit of experimenting with ammunition for my AT-14 upper, now mounted on a RR lower with the same ACE LTD stock I wrote about in my 02/07/2010 entry (see above). Some of the following comments also refer to that entry.

    The ammo sensitivity issue seems to have at least two components: 1. shot shell length and 2. type of crimping – roll or star. Powder load and resulting bolt speed is likely a factor, as well, even the dominant one. If so, I have no way of gauging that.

    The Federal .410 Handgun 2 1/2″ Buckshot (4 pellets – 000 buck – roll crimped) are too long to fit into the AT-14 mags (5 or 13 rounds). The average length of five shells that I measured with engineering calipers right out of the box averaged 58.6mm (2.31″). With a bit of a push you can force them into the mags, but the spring and follower cannot push them up fast enough to function properly. I managed to shoot at most two in a row before the second/third shell jammed badly.

    Based in part on the information in Kamil’s 04/03/2010 notes on suitable ammunition including Bob Weaver’s comments, I next purchased 4 types of .410 2 1/2 inch ammo.

    1. Remington Express Rifled Slug (SP410RS)
    2. Remington Express Long Range #4 Shot (SP4104)
    3. Federal Hi-Brass Load #6 Shot (H412 6)
    4. Federal Hi-Brass Load # 7 1/2 Shot (H412 7.5)

    The average lengths of these four different types of shells are 58mm, 57.8mm, 56.6mm, and 56.4 mm, respectively.

    The Rifled Slugs were roll crimped. All the others were star crimped.

    The AT-14 was disassembled and thoroughly cleaned before shooting.

    The Remington Rifled Slugs at 58mm (2.28″) worked flawlessly in the 5 round mag. Note these shells are only about 0.6 mm shorter than the Federal Handgun shells which frequently jammed. Ignoring the possible effect of the difference in powder charge, I suspect 58mm is at, or near, the maximum allowable length. Conclusion: take calipers with you to the ammo store. :-)

    Annoyingly, all the star-crimped shells (2. – 4. above) jammed in some way or another in the 5 round mag in every test, but one (see below). Note that they are all less than 58mm !? I can only conclude that the type of crimping may make a big difference, as the ATI phone representative told me back in February (again, see my posting above).

    The worst result came from 2. – the Remington Long Range #4 shot. Every single first shot resulted in a serious jam of the second in which the shell was badly dented in two places. Upon inspection they were jammed between the bolt face and the barrel chamber at a steep angle. Again, speed of the bolt may be an important factor.

    With the Federal shells, most often the 2nd round jammed. In only one case I downloaded the mag by one round of Federal # 7 1/2 and got off four flawless shots.

    In case you are wondering, when discharged the Remington star-crimped shells were the same length as the discharged roll-crimped shells. Thus, for the Remingtons the length of the expanded shell does not appear to be a factor.

    Because of these problems and uncertainties, I have not yet tried the 13 round mag. I plan to do some more testing (especially with roll-crimped rounds, assuming I can get them) and will post my results.

    I hope this note helps someone in their quest for suitable AT-14 ammunition. Please let me know what ammunition works well for you. I invite comments and criticism.

    • http://www.thefirearmblog.com Steve

      Mookien, thanks for the review.

  • http://www.safirarms.com Kamil Arıkut

    Mookien,
    Thanks for the in depth review too,
    We will assess it with my gunsmiths and come back to you gentlemen but since we are in Turkey and cant obtain American ammo, it is really hard to test stuff. When we become operational in NJ in July it will be easier to assist you guys with service and info.
    And since our 20.000 plus European versions of our gun that are in circulation here in Turkey and around the world work excellently well with Turkish and European shell brands , I find it hard to really get whats wrong with the American ammo.
    Maybe the approximately 1250 guns and uppers in the States will need a new and closer look from us.
    Best regards from Safir Arms
    Kamil

  • Alvaro

    Kamil

    Any idea if the Safir T 15 shotgun in 20 gauge will be interchangeable with the Safir T 14 ? Say that the Safir T 15 upper will be compatible and interchangeable with the Safir T 14 upper, therefore we could use the T14 lower with either T 14 or T 15 uppers.

  • Alvaro

    Kamil

    I ordered my Safir T14 and now I am concerned with the ammo issue. Here in the Republic of Panama we usually get Winchester or Remington ammo. Don´t know which version of the T14 we will get from Safir Arms, the american or the european ? Is there any difference in the manufacturing and/or the end product ?

  • Erica

    Where can I get one of these AR 15 .410 shotguns?

  • http://www.dkengg.com Dawood Sugialvi

    AT-14: The .410 AR-15 Shotguns look very impressiove. where can i buy one in USA?

  • http://tactical.desktopmarket.com Dawood Qureshi

    Safir Arms T-14 M-16 style shotgun and Uppers re-entering US Market by Jan 2011
    36 (410) CALIBER, UNRIFLED AND UNGROOVED SEMIAUTOMATIC T- 14 HUNTING GUN WHICH IS SIMILAR TO AR-15 223 REMINGTON will be sold by http://www.tactical.desktopmarket.com exclusively for Safir Arms manufacturing facility being setup in NJ.

    .410 gun T 14 is designed to be used with every kind of ammo, birdshots, buckshots or slugs. Mainly the manufacturer recommend slugs. Because the gun has a powerful gas system that no other shotgun has and also is extremely accurate up to 300 meters.

    The shotgun shell standard to be used for T 14 shotguns are 36 calibre x 65 mms. for Europe and .410 calibre x 65 mms for America. The length of the shotgun shell should be between 57 to 60.5 mms.(For American model guns 5.7 cm.s, for European style guns 6.05 cm.s) unexploded(closed) and maximum 65 mms. Exploded (closed).

    The shells can be filled with slugs, birdshots or buckshots. They all work well with T 14.

    For American models of the gun we recommend Federal # 6, Estate #8, Remington #4 Long Range, #6 Long Range, #6 Field and 1/5 oz Slugs. No Winchester 2.5” ammo will fit, nor will Remington #9.

    For our European models certain shotgun shell model and makes like Remington Express (England), Remington Kleinbore (Germany), Vieri (French), Fiocchi, RC and Luxor (Italy) fit well and can be used.

  • http://tactical.desktopmarket.com Dawood Qureshi

    Safir Arms T-14 M-16 style shotgun and Uppers re-entering US Market by Jan 2011
    36 (410) CALIBER, UNRIFLED AND UNGROOVED SEMIAUTOMATIC T- 14 HUNTING GUN WHICH IS SIMILAR TO AR-15 223 REMINGTON will be sold by http://www.tactical.desktopmarket.com exclusively for Safir Arms manufacturing facility being setup in NJ.

    The shotgun shell standard to be used for T 14 shotguns are 36 calibre x 65 mms. for Europe and .410 calibre x 65 mms for America. The length of the shotgun shell should be between 57 to 60.5 mms.(For American model guns 5.7 cm.s, for European style guns 6.05 cm.s) unexploded(closed) and maximum 65 mms. Exploded (closed).

    The shells can be filled with slugs, birdshots or buckshots. They all work well with T 14.

    For American models of the gun we recommend Federal # 6, Estate #8, Remington #4 Long Range, #6 Long Range, #6 Field and 1/5 oz Slugs. No Winchester 2.5” ammo will fit, nor will Remington #9.

    For our European models certain shotgun shell model and makes like Remington Express (England), Remington Kleinbore (Germany), Vieri (French), Fiocchi, RC and Luxor (Italy) fit well and can be used.

  • Keith Applegate

    Well you just lost me as a customer!
    I had been looking forward to finding one. I thought it would be a fun gun to play with. But the fact that it will work with some Remington 2.5″ loads but not with others and that it won’t work with ANY Winchester 2.5″ loads makes be doubt the reliability of the entire platform. Who designed this thing? Microsoft?

    In certain parts of the world, where folks cannot own a real AR rifle, this toy may get them all hot and sweaty and while they may be willing to tolerate its idiocentricities we here in the gold ol’ USA won’t settle for an AR that only works with some select few brands/loadings of ammo.

    Look at the Saiga. It will work, and work well, with any load (that will fit inside its chamber) that you feed it.

    And originally I was even going to let pass that idiotic 300 meter accuracy claim. Which is simply poppycock.

    No smoothbore small arm, firing conventional ammunition, can claim to be “extremely accurate up to 300 meters” unless you totally redefine accuracy. Hell’s Belles, even if it had a rifled barrel, which it doesn’t, the .410 slug simply just doesn’t possess that kind of accuracy. The ballistic coefficient just isn’t there.

  • Mehmet

    Dear Keith,
    Safir T 14 is chambered for 2 1/2 inch shells but we have found that in USA different manufacturers’ 2 1/2 inch shells are not the same size.
    Actually most 2 1/2 inch shells are between 2 5/16 and 2 3/8 inches. Some fit in T 14 with no problems, some rub a bit but work and others are just too big.
    The following ammo works:
    Federal high brass, Remington Game loads(black shell, 20 per box), Remington Nitros(gold), and Winchester Super SPEED. Of these, Federal works best.
    Winchester Super SPORT will fit and run but they are a tight fit and some fail to load and get stuck in the magazine.
    Winchester Super X Rifled Slugs X41RS5 work great too. RIO does not fit, Anything under 2.3 inches should fit.
    Keep it well lubed and use the maroon high brass Federal #6 shot and you will have a blast.
    When people say T 14 is accurate upto 300 meters , it is meant that it is relatively accurate upto a reasonable point. If you can shoot and hit , you can kill.
    We have kiiled big game in Turkey with T 14 from long distances, mainly boars from 300 meter using scopes several times, from 150 meters hundreds of times ,a bear once from 100 meters with one .410 slug, it depends on what kind of a shooter you are.
    We have found that it patterns really well also with bird shot. Shot slugs at the range and got 10 inch MOA at 50 yards with iron sights.
    So work a bit on your shootin’ pal.

  • Keith Applegate

    “We have kiiled big game in Turkey with T 14 from long distances, mainly boars from 300 meter using scopes several times, from 150 meters hundreds of times ,a bear once from 100 meters with one .410 slug, it depends on what kind of a shooter you are.
    We have found that it patterns really well also with bird shot. Shot slugs at the range and got 10 inch MOA at 50 yards with iron sights.
    So work a bit on your shootin’ pal.”

    Mehmet,

    ROFLMAO!!!
    It’s not about my shooting skills “Pal”, it’s about your exaggerated marketing “skills”.

    I have a few questions and comments about your last post.

    First of all just what is a “10inch MOA at 50 yards”?
    - If you mean a 10 inch group at 50 yards, then hitting anything smaller than a tobacco barn will be impossible at 300 meters. You do realize that 300 meters is over 6.5 times farther than 50 yards don’t you?
    - And if you mean one half inch (which is what a Minute Of Angle would be at 50 yards) then I’m calling BS. There is NO .410 slug load on the planet that will hold a group that small from a smooth bore barrel. The sectional density and ballistic coefficient of the .410 shotgun slug just ain’t good enough for that.
    Fact: depending upon brand, a .410 slug will weigh between 88 and 114 grains.
    The best accuracy claim I’ve ever heard of for the .410 slug is the Brenneke claim of 2″ at 50 yards. (The Brenneke has an attached base wad so it has a slightly better ballistic coefficient than the typical hollow base foster slug.) 2″ @ 50yds… that would be 4 MOA, AT BEST. More like 6″-8″ realistically. Care to extrapolate that to 300 yards? You’d be shooting patterns, not groups.

    I believe the consensus among experienced US deer hunters is that the .410 slug, in the hands of an expert, CAN kill a 125 pound deer at 50-60 yards at best. The accuracy/power simply isn’t there for humane kills any further no matter what sighting system you use.

    More pertinent information from Winchester;
    Velocity Energy Trajectory
    Muzzle 1830 fps 651 ft/lbs n/a
    50 yards 1318 fps 338 ft/lbs 0.0″
    100 yards 1025 fps 204 ft/lbs -5.8″
    125 yards 946 fps 174 ft/lbs -12.0″

    That’s an entire foot at 125 yards. Care to guess how much it will drop at 300 meters? (Hint: it’ll be easier to measure it in yards.)
    And we haven’t even touched on wind drift. Any idea how wind affects a 100 grain bullet?

    By the way care to guess what other Winchester cartridges have similar ballistics?
    At 50 yards = .380 ACP 95 grain FMJ 865 fps 160 ft/lbs
    At 50 yards = .38 Special 130 grain FMJ 765 fps 169 ft/lbs
    At 50 yards = 9mm Makarov 95 grain FMJ 925 fps 180 ft/lbs
    Are you saying that any of these would be considered good enough for Bear or Boar at 50 yards? I mean, since they are in the same energy range as the .410 slug at 125 yards why not?
    Or how about the lowly .38 S&W it has a muzzle velocity of 685 fps that equates to 150 ft/lbs. Based on your exploits that means the old Owl Heads and Lemon Squeezers would be good enough to thwart bear attacks.

    So… Are you really trying to tell us that you have killed a BEAR at 100 meters with a .410 SLUG? How many times did you hit it? What was it, a Beanie Baby? Let me rephrase, you’re telling us you’ve killed an honest to gosh, honey eating, picnic basket ravaging BRUIN at a range of 109 yards with a bullet weighing less than 115 grains, with ONE SHOT? Is that really the story you want to stick with? At 100 meters, that less than 1000 fps, 90 to 115 grain .410 slug just doesn’t have the power needed for proper penetration. And while I don’t know about hunting in Turkey, over here, hunting a bear with a .410 is not what we would consider good sportsmanship. By the by, I live in the Pacific Northwest and I know a thing or two about Bears.

    But I know even more about ballistics. Internal, external AND terminal. And believe me when I say that the science of ballistics is EXACTLY the same in Turkey as it is in the good old USA. You see, when it comes to ballistics and bullspit, ballistics wins every time.

    Now about those boars…
    BOARS? You mean full grown, snort, snort, tusk bearing boars? Or do you mean oink-oink piglets? And even if it was standing still, simply hitting a boar at 300 meters is nigh on to IMPOSSIBLE with any .410 shot gun. I don’t care how well it’s crafted. You’d need a grenade launching sight to lob them anywhere close. And yet you say HUNDREDS killed? How many thousands did you wound and how many millions did you miss?

    And again I say that if you are going to make a shotgun chambered in 2.5″ .410 then it should be able to handle ANY & ALL SAAMI/CIP specification 2.5″ .410 shells. Not just some. For example the Saiga shotguns I have fired (both 12 gauge and .410 bore) will run with any 2.75″ (12ga) or 2.5″ (.410) shells you feed them.

    I tell you what Mehmet, YOU come over here and stand 300 meters away from me and I will LET you shoot at me with .410 slugs.

  • Keith Applegate

    CORRECTION: I forgot to type in “At 100 yards”

    The paragraph should have read;

    Fact: depending upon brand, a .410 slug will weigh between 88 and 114 grains.
    The best accuracy claim I’ve ever heard of for the .410 slug is the Brenneke claim of 2″ at 50 yards. (The Brenneke has an attached base wad so it has a slightly better ballistic coefficient than the typical hollow base foster slug.) 2″ @ 50yds… At 100 yards, that would be 4 MOA, AT BEST. More like 6″-8″ realistically. Care to extrapolate that to 300 yards? You’d be shooting patterns, not groups.

  • A Chong

    I bought the T14 but due to legal constrains in my country, I am still awaiting approval and delivery which should take about a month or so. My question is regarding ammunition, specifically RIO. It is very difficult to get ammo in 410 where I live and I have to bear with what I can find. I stumbled the other day with a range/store that had RIO #3 buck. The box says: 2-1/2 in. – 6/16 oz – Max. Caliber 36-65. Inside each shot/cartridge is seems that there are 2 round lead pebbles.

    I measured the length of the entire cartridge and it measures just a bit less than 2.3 in. Why is it that you say that no RIO ammo will work with the T14 since the RIO ammo that I have measures 2.3 in. and you say that any ammo that measures 2.3 will work ?

  • Keith Applegate

    A Chong, that #3 Rio ammo you have is what we call 000 Buck (triple aught buck). Aught being an old term for zero.
    In essence you are shooting two .38 caliber (9mm) bullets with each bull of the trigger.
    It’s a decent close range personal defense load. I know a few people who use a similar load in their .410 revolvers.

  • A Chong

    Thanks, Keith

    As soon as I can get my hands on my new T14, I’ll try the RIO ammo and see if it works or not. I wish I could buy slugs but there’s no way I can find that shot around here. Best found was 000.

    Any comments Mehmet..?

  • A Chong

    Keith

    Well, still waiting for the official realease of my T14, but since I got hold of a 410 bore Steven 39A bolt action rifle very cheap I tested the RIO Buckshot 00 that I had bought earlier. Unexploded, the shell measures exactly 58 mm…Exploded, the shell measures 63 mm.

    I also experimented with a box of Winchester Super X 410 – 1/2 ounces, #4 shot. Unexploded, the shell measures exactly 59.5 mm…Exploded, the shell measures 65 mm.

    Both cartridges fit the extra magazine (that’s the only thing they gave me for the mean time). I would imagine that both cartridges should work with the T14, right ? If there is a difference between the european and the US T14 models, I was told that I would be getting the european model.

    Appreciate your comments,

    Al

  • Jerome Lawson

    I purchased on and was only given 1 5 round magazine. I tried to buy more but ATI said they were not affiliated with Safir anymore. I even tried to contact Safir. ATI and EAA are both a big pile of crap. If you try to get replacement parts they answer the phone with a mouth full of something saying contact the manufacturer. Like Im an importer or something. Screw both of them. I will never buy there crap again,.

  • http://www.tactical.desktopmakret.com Dawood

    Dear Jerome Lawson

    I got your message in Hotmail today. I see that you have problem in getting the Magazine. I don’t know what was your discussion and terms with ATI. ATI is no more distributors of Safir Arms. I have mentioned on this blog that Safir Arms is setting up their own distribution system and manufacturing facility in NJ. The application is under process for import of Parts and Guns.

    As per new ATF ruling in January this year, the Guns are only importable with 5 Round Magazine. We are importing 5 Round Magazines. 10 and 13 round are not allowed for Import by ATF. As and when we set up our manufacturing facility in NJ, we will be able to supply US made magazines. However, for now, only 5 round magazines will be available as soon as application is approved.

    In your post above you mentioned you contacted Safir Arms about it as well. Could you share with me who did you contact in Safir arms? our policy is to respond back to customer within 2-3 hours.

    I hope I have clarified the situation. Please open an account at our e commerce website http://www.tactical.desktopmarket.com and I will keep you informed of the inventory situation.

  • http://www.tactical.desktopmarket.com Dawood Qureshi

    For the Information of all Safir Arms AR Style shotgun owners, fans and potential owners.

    Safir Arms LLC located in New Jersey is a subsidiary of Safir Arms Turkey. The company is established with its own distribution systems and warranty replacements. The manufacturing operation is like to take a few more months. We have begun importing from our parent company in Turkey and have stock on our guns. The gun has been improved and perfected for US market.

    A two years warranty on parts and labor will be provided on all new purchases. We will provide free repairs for the life of the weapon, charging only for the replaced parts beyond 2 years warranty period.

    All the existing owners of T-14s are welcomed to discuss their repair issues with us to provide them free of charge repair and one time free parts replacement. Contact me at email address [email protected] describing the nature of problem and the spare parts required. We will have our repair facility fully operational by next 3-4 weeks and undertake the repairs of your weapons on first come first serve basis.

    T-14 Classic and T-14 Compact are in Stock with us. We expect to have uppers in stock by another 02 weeks. Apart from guns, we will carry a full inventory of accessories and parts, like collapsible stock, 5, 10 and 13 round Magazines etc. please register at http://www.tactical.desktopmarket.com to keep you updated.

    We want to make your experience a fun with our brand of guns and will make sure that your weapon stays serviceable at all times.

  • http://www.legacygh.co.uk Paul

    I have been told the gun itself is a piece of crap!!!!
    i was on the verge of buying one when a contact from Spikes said avoid at all costs.
    is this infromation reliable as i was really looking forward to buying and using the gun for practical shooting

  • http://yahoo jash thomas adams

    THAT IS A BAD ASS SHOTGUN

  • A Chong

    Got mine about 1 month ago. I am located in the Republic of Panama (Central America). I purchased a 14″ long barrel, flat top version, but have not had time to test fire it in the range yet. As to the materials and workmanship (as seen), it looks good. I have a couple boxes of .410 shots (000) Rio cartridges with the permissible cartridge lengths, so I just hope they work. One thing that I have heard is that you have to clean the gun after use and lube it, in order to prevent problems the next time you use it. That’s ok with me as I always do that after range time. I may find the time to test the shotgun in about 2 weeks.

  • REGINALDO FREITAS

    EU COMPREI A MINHA EM SAO PAULO BRAZIL, E ESTOU MUITO CONTENTE, POIS A MUITO JA TINHA VISTO E QUERIA,,,

  • bekwel

    If you really want self defense — something that will protect your life, why in the hell are you going to depend on some foreign tin stamped crap. look at Ruger. Buy and learn to use something that will extend your life span.