Sig Sauer P238 .380 1911
Rumors of the Sig P238 have been floating around the ‘net for a while now. They have turned out to be true. Sig Sauer P238 is a remake of the single action Colt Mustang which was discontinued just over a decade ago.
Sig Sauer P238 .380 ACP. Two tone. Click to expand image.
Colt Mustang .380 ACP. Photo by HiVelSword.
It is a single action pistol with an aluminum frame and a steel slide. From the press release:
With an overall length of just 5.5 inches a height of 3.96 inches, and weighing just under a pound, the SIG SAUER P238 is the ultimate firepower in an all metal frame concealed pistol. The P238 is built on an anodized alloy beavertail style frame with fluted aluminum grips for comfort and a secure hold during rapid-fire usage. The stainless steel slide features the popular SIG SAUER slide serrations and improves overall performance and accuracy.
It will come in two finishes, Black Nitron and Two Tone. Two sights will be available: contrast sights or SIGLITE Sights. This makes a total of four models. Pricing is below:
238-380-B MSRP $ 515.00
Black Nitron finish, Contrast Sights238-380-BSS MSRP $ 558.00
Black Nitron finish, SIGLITE Sights238-380-T MSRP $ 529.00
Two Tone, Contrast Sights238-380-TSS MSRP $ 572.00
Two Tone, SIGLITE Sights1200773 – Extra 6 round magazines MSRP $ 44.00
This should really appeal to 1911 fans, especially Colt Mustang fans. Time will tell if it is enough to compete with the plethora of sub-compact .380 pistols out there.
I will update this post as more information becomes available.
UPDATE: High quality photo from Ken.
Photo Copyright Ken Lunde. Used with permission.
UPDATE: The specs from the press release:
Frame Material: Aluminum
Frame Finish: Black Hard Coat Anodize
Slide Material: Stainless Steel
Slide Finish: Nitron or Natural Stainless
Length Overall: 5.5”
Height Overall: 3.9”
Width Overall: 1.1”
Barrel Length: 2.7”
Sights: Post & Dot Contrast, SIGLIGHT Night Sights
Sight Radius: 3.8”
Weight w/out mag: 15.2 oz.
Mag capacity: 6 rounds.
Reacting to many requests from the marketplace for a subcompact SIG SAUER pistol, engineers designed the new P238 as a smart looking, small handgun built with the same accuracy and reliability as large frame SIG SAUER pistols. With an overall length of just 5.5 inches a height of 3.96 inches, and weighing just under a pound, the SIG SAUER P238 is the ultimate firepower in an all metal frame concealed pistol. The P238 is built on an anodized alloy beavertail style frame with fluted aluminum grips for comfort and a secure hold during rapid-fire usage. The stainless steel slide features the popular SIG SAUER slide serrations and improves overall performance and accuracy. Additionally, the contrast or SIGLITE® Night Sights are removable and adjustable for windage. The sear and trigger return spring are redesigned to prevent spring over-ride of the ejector during assembly. Two finishes are available; Two-tone and corrosion resistant Nitron®. The new SIG SAUER P238 is shipped in a lockable hard case with one 6 round magazine at an MSRP starting at $515.00 for the Nitron® with contrasting sights. For more information, log on to www.sigsauer.com.
Press release photo
Hat Tip: 1911Forum, SigForum and GHG
¿Do you have other kinds of grips?, I seen other, like Hogue grips!…
My new Sig P238 Nitron finish with Siglite nightsigts is completly reliable, with the standard 6 round mag and the extended 7 round mag with finger rest, ansd functions perfectly with a full mag and one in the chamber. I am very impressed with the ease of handling and the exceptional accuracy of the little gun. It will do double duty as my primary concealed carry weapon and also as my field gun for fishing and hiking. I have carried several different Sig handguns as a deputy sheriff and while working armed security and bodyguard duty, and this little P238 is as reliable, easy to shoot and as accurate as I could ask a handgun to be. It’s a typical Sig Sauer and that’s about as good as it can get. I am completely pleased with the weapon.
I am looking for a sight adjustment tool for a sig p238.
I have had my P238 for about a month now. It was manufactured in July 2011 with all the Sig updates. My range time is limited, but I have about 100 problem free rounds through it so far. Not much I know, but this it turning out to be the perfect size conceal for me. It’s light, and fits my med-large hands perfectly. The recoil is only moderate and I can group 4-5″ at 7 yards with ease, even with a 3 shot rapid fire. That’s perfectly fine for close encounters. My next unit will either be a S&W or Ruger in 38 special or 357. Those will be all the pistol I will ever need, except for maybe a Ruger 22LR for cheap target practice. Then perhaps a Remington 870 12GA, a Remington 700 30-06, and a Marlin or Henry 22LR. That sounds like a well rounded assortment.
whoooohooooo!!!!!…..now i’ve had a reason to replace my bersa thunder 380!
Ralph.You are obviously an ignoramous,when it comes to the 380.Have not had one stoppage/missfire with my 230 or 232,I shoot at least once a month,to keep my eye in with these guns.
Bought a Sig P238 SAS for the wife. Fiddling with the gun it looked as if the barrel could hit the front right edge of the magazine. Sure enough, found a lot of complaints and a video of ramp and mag damage. I lowerd that edge of the mag and allowed for additional clearance.
I hate plastic triggers. Call it a pet peave. I like nice smooth, crisp metal triggers. The pull on this trigger is 7-8lbs. I find myself death gripping it and lost in anticipation for the sear realease.
I found an aluminum, and now a stainless steel trigger. While exercising the pistol new, I also noticed that sometimes it failed to fire. I decided to take a look behind the grip. The trigger arm sometimes drops below the edge of the sear and cannot fire. The trigger arm is free floating. It has not supprt except near the rear of the trigger guard. That seems like a disaster waiting to happen.
You can reset the trigger arm by pushing up and forward on it. It makes a subtle click and then sits in the right position. You can easily push it down again whereas it will miss the sear.
I decided to upgrade the trigger hoping I might find a solution to the trigger arm play. I could not remove the locking pin. It must be pressed in at the factory. I put it back together after much cursing and frustration. Replacing the sear is tedious.
The mainspring housing is also plastic. You are kidding me right. Nope its plastic. Also found a SS MSH online. I put the pistol back together and the trigger arm missing the sear is worse. The ejector does not move easily. Never did. I polished the sides of the sear, ejector, and hammer hoping this would help. Nope when the trigger fires it feels better, but still misses the sear quite often.
I have a new Sig, never fired, problems with mags, ejector, and trigger arm. It also has a crappy plastic trigger.
I contacted a Sig gunsmith. He said do not touch it. If you do, you are screwed. Send it to Sig.
So much for buying a Sig for quality assurance.
Note: I bouth a Magnum Research Desert Eagle 1911C the same day. It is flawless. Easy to disassemble and reassemble. Works great.
Anyone ever deal with this trigger arm missing the sear problem? Anyone ever successfully remove a trigger and reassemble it? Was it worth it. Any experience with Sig customer service? I have heard horror stories, but have not contacted them yet.
Hey JS, I was being facetious in my comment about the .380 rounds. I think they are a very good round. I only commented because some other person had made the statement “.380″ are worthless, and something along the lines of Glock 9mm being the round to use, and the only firearm to use is along the lines of a subcompact firearm. Obviously, that individual doesn’t understand the concept of a p238 being a back up. I absolutely agree that shot placement has a lot to do with it. I know of a situation that took place between LEO and a perp. The LEO shot the perp three times with a 357 Mag and the perp still lived, but during the confrontation the perp got off a few rounds of .22, with one round striking the LEO under the arm, fairly close to the arm pit. The officer died within minutes.
God forbid I should ever need my firearm, but if I did, my attacker will see the business end of my Kimber Ultra Carry II loaded with .45 ACP along with two additional mags and a p238 loaded with hollow points as a backup on my support side.
Hey ME- if .380 is so worthless, go ahead and stand in front of one…. Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement…. i suppose you are one of the ‘because they dont make a .46′ crowd, and anything less impinges your masculinity, right??
I love ‘experts’…..
On another note, i needed a new mag for my p238, the spring was set. Not happy about spending $40 to find out that SIG changed the follower and left the first owners high and dry….
.380 are worthless rounds…….You’re an idiot, period!!! Not to mention “Subcompact Glock” on your ankle, again, further confirmation that you’re an idiot!!
i have had my p238 sas for about 6 months i cary it every day in a waist band holster it is very comfortable and light. so far ive put 600 rounds through it and since it is such a fine piece i am now a surgeon at 35 feet .
this gun is perfect for self defense, i sold my old cary weapon a .45 millennium pro because i couldn’t put 3 mags through the Taurus with out a jam ..the sig has only been cleaned 3 times in 600 rounds and hasn’t had a single problem ..in fact it seams to shoot better the more it shoots. this is amazing because most other small guns like this will be worn out by 600 shots fired.
now i only have a S&W model 19 .357 and my p238 and thats all i need
i recommend the sas version to any one i am 100% satisfied and that says a lot becaue the gun cost me 745$ after taxes here in miami fl
oh, and this thread is about the P238, not the P232…. which was the pistol i was commenting about.
does the above ‘gunsmith’ care to elaborate? ive had mine for about two years, and with the exception of replacing a weak spring, i have close to a thousand rounds through mine with no issues. carries well, shoots well and is ‘combat acurate’
if you’re going to make statements like that, prove you have the knowledge to back them up with some details…..
The Sig Sauer P232 is the most unreliable pistol I ever worked on.
I have Two – P238 6 Round .380 ACP Magazine used like new.just sold my sig p238 and will sell both for $70. paid 46 for each from sig.
thanks
stottle1@comcast.net
I bought a the Sig p238 HD all stainless a few weeks ago and put about 200 rounds (rem, win & PMC FMJ and a few Hornady CD HP) through it with only one FTE on the 3rd round of the 2nd clip. I got the Metalform 7 round magazines and they worked flawlessly except I can’t put the 7th round in and load without pulling the slide back, so you can only have 6 in the magazine when carrying. The gun is very accurate, low recoil and fits well in your hand. After firing 2 clips limp wristed the gun jammed on the 4th round of each and I disassembled it and noticed the factory spring had reduced in length significantly. Don’t do this! I ordered the new sig flat spring and installed it and shot about 100 rounds flawlessly. I heard this spring is more like the other sigs 229 & 239 which I have shot with no malfunctions & should last 1000-1500 rounds, I compared spring length to the other brand new flat spring and it was nearly as long, maybe 1/16 or 1/32 inches shorter. It’s the best 380 I’ve ever shot, especially with the 7 round mag (COlt Mustang, Walther PPKS, Beretta 84 & Bersa Thunder). Get one made in the past 6mos and replace with flat recoild spring and should be ok.
I bought a the Sig p238 HD all stainless a few weeks ago and put about 200 rounds (rem, win & PMC FMJ and a few Hornady CD HP) through it with only one FTE on the 3rd round of the 2nd clip. I got the Metalform 7 round magazines and they worked flawlessly except I can’t put the 7th round in and load without pulling the slide back, so you can only have 6 in the magazine when carrying. The gun is very accurate, low recoil and fits well in your hand. After firing 2 clips limp wristed the gun jammed on the 4th round of each and I disassembled it and noticed the factory spring had reduced in length significantly. Don’t do this! I ordered the new sig flat spring and installed it and shot a few round with no issues. I hear this spring is more like the other sigs 229 & 239 which I have shot with no malfunctions & should last 1000-1500 rounds. It’s the best 380 I’ve ever shot (COlt Mustang, Walther PPKS, Beretta 84 & Bersa Thunder).
Been in police service for 55 years. Find the Sig P238 reliable and easy to carry as a defensive weapon on the person. Still have my S & W snubbie on my night stand as a home defense weapon with my pump shotgun close by. Unlike the 1911 style of mode carry, round in chamber, safety on or chamber unloaded ready to be jacked, the snubbie is always ready to go and without worries of failing to fire as is the history of autos. However the P238 is plenty reliable and with its flat appearance easy to carry in your pant pocket I chose this weapon as my back-up and just plain off-duty carry weapon. Sig like Glock is hard to beat as far as reliability goes with autos.
Does anyone have a link or a owners manual they would like to sell for the Sig Sauer CP1 scope that was released fall 2010?
Reference a gun test regarding the Sig Saurer P238 in an article in the January 2011 issue of Concealed Carry Handguns by Mr. Paul Markel. Paragraph two reference “gun details” of this article is wrong and misleading. I happen to own this weapon and when Mr. Markel relates “unlike the Mi911, the manuel safety does not lock the slide in place”, wrong Mr. Markel. This is a safety feature you missed on this weapon. When the hammer is down and the safety is on the slide of this weapon is locked. I would suggest that this feature exists to keep you from jacking a round in the chamberof this weapon should you have a tight holster. Once the chamber is loaded and the safety is on and the hammer is back you can work the slide to eject the chambered round should you need to. Giving my age away I entered the military police in 1954 and the M1911 was a weapon I carried for 20 plus years. The Sig 238 has a lot of features that mirrow the M1911. The M1911and the Sig 238 are fine weapons.
Can anyone tell me of you can add the night sights to the gun or do you have to purchase with them only? Thanks Joe
Bought mine in Oct. 2009. Loved it for first 100 rounds, then started “light strike” primers. Ouch. Shortly therafter approx. 200 rds. began getting intermittent FTE. Set to SIG (so-so service), pistole’ returned, functioned nice for another 150, then began same routine (SIG said “cleaned, lubed. adjusted extractor). Frustrating, cuz nice trigger, feel. Replaced recoil spring with 11lb. Wolff (tried 12lb Wolff, FTE). Got much better, 98.63557% reliable, but still. trampy lil gal. Could not let her go, got NICE DM Bullard holster, mag holder, belt, continue to run mag or two 4 days a week. Light primer strikes still there, seems to work though. Try all kinds ogf ammo, cheesy Herter, Winchester FMJ, Aguilar hollow points, Rem. FMJ, Federal FMJ, Hornady, Buffalo Bore, Speer Gold Dot, etc. Works better…….99.08473%, but still not trusting lil hefer. After 14 months (S&W 637 is “go to” gun), primers are now being smacked nice, good dimples. I order new factory mag from Midway, it arrives at plush, hilltop Hektor-pad, and, wtf, mag is redesigned (have two of 2009 vintage). Why is mag re-designed? Obvoius attempt at rectification of Siggie non-functionality, but cannot find out what fer? Anybody Know?
I bought a Nitron 238 to replace a P3AT which I hated. Yes, the Keltec is a bit smaller and lighter, but it required a lot of work to make it reliable, and it was not fun to shoot…the recoil made accurate follow up shots very difficult. Add the lack of real sights and you ended up with a gun that was really only useful up close and personal.
My P238 has been flawless through 300 rds of S&B FMJ and 60 rounds of MAC JHP. This gun is quite accurate, recoil is minimal, my wife likes to shoot it. I will probably end up getting one for her. She struggles racking the slide on a lot of guns, but she finds the 238 eqsy to use.
I am going to use it a defensive handgun class we are taking it. Most of the class use full size pistols (harder to conceal, but easier to shoot well in front of your friends!), but I figure I might as well train with a gun that I will usually be carrying.
No, it is not a mini 1911, the trigger is not great, but compared to a DA/SA, I like it a lot better. Yes it is “only” a .380, but it is so light and small it is easily concealed in a pocket holster when wearing shorts etc in warm weather.
UPDATE:
After sending my P238 to Sig with multiple problems I am happy to say they took care of ALL of them. (However, this was due to a VIP intervening on my behalf to get them all dealt with.) They replaced the defective barrel, fixed the defective trigger reset, took care of the excessive trigger “stiffness”/excess weight.
It should not have shipped with the problems but I must give credit where it is due–they made it right. It now shoots very nicely. (It never did ammo malf. BTW. and still doesn’t.)
I still have the reservation regarding the recoil spring life. The trigger is not a 1911 but is much much better with their rework. All in all. I’m glad to have gotten it. For the SA crowd it may be the best small 380 out there.
We shall see with reliability with HP ammo. Had a guy at the range flawless with FMJ then went to some Rem GS 102gr and feedramp jambs shut him down–ouch.
Ive had mine for a year now. Its my carry most of the time. I have put in excess of 500 rounds through it, an found the following:
Polishing the feed ramp is a big help.
I replaced the recoil spring with a Wolff, this has been a common issue with the spring getting weak.
It generally feeds ammo well, but Herter’s (cheapo now) was a big no-no.
for defensive rounds, i only carry Hornady Critical defense, they expand perfectly in media and feed every time perfectly.
I would recommend this gun, provided you are comfortable carrying in condition one. (aka Cocked and locked)
it shoots very nicely and i find its very accurate. its a tiny bit too big to be a true ‘pocket gun’, but it works in loose pleated pants. Keep it clean and make sure to put a drop of grease like tetra-lube on the slide rails.
Considering purchasing a P238. Appreciate all the reports from current owners.
Bought a P238 several weeks ago but just recently had a chance to run off 100 rounds. Extremely disappointed. At least once and usually two or three times during each mag load the breach seizes open due to the failure of the spent cartridge to extract. This should not be happening with this weapon.
Despite it’s looks compared to a Mustang, from several I’ve talked to the Sig is a much more reliable gun. The Mustang had a huge problem with misfeeds and misfires (out of the box). This gun so far is getting good reviews right out of the box. Several police officers I’ve talked to are using this as a backup weapon. The only downside I see is the price – typical of Sig in gerneral.
I just bought a P238. I have both a Keltec and an LCP and they both shoot about the same (scattered).
My first impression was that the trigger was excessive stiff, that eased up after 10 to 20 rounds. My second impression was Holly Crap this thing shoots nice, I started thinking I was a better shot than I thought I was, being able to put 10 shots all within a 1.5 to 2 inch group with a .380 (I can do that with a $1200.00 Kimber). I handed it to a friend in the next booth shooting an LCP (scattered outside the black) and he burst my bubble by putting 5 shots in a 4 inch group with a gun he had never touched before, it wasn’t me it was the gun.
It’s the most comfortable .380 I’ve ever shot, the Keltec makes my hand hurt and the LCP just doesn’t feel right in my hand.
Its not the best gun I’ve ever owned, but it is the best .380 I’ve owned.
P.S. 500 rounds and no problems, thank God because I hear customer service at Sig is bad.
To Snake: You could, but carry it hammer down, but try to draw and cock the hammer…. its almost impossible whlie staying on target with one hand. This is much less than ideal for a defensive gun. I believe that if the hammer is down, it cannot advance forward enough to strike the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled.
In a proper holster (even a pocket holster) carrying it cocked & locked (condition one) would be the most appropriate.
Can you carry the p238 with a round in the chamber and the hammer down but not on the firing pin? I don’t like the idea of “cocked and locked” in my pocket. My P220 has such a hammer position where its not “cocked and locked” but not down on the firing pin either. If I drop it with a round in the chamber, its not going to go off.
Ok, peace, peace and peace. I am one of the very first owner of P238, and I paid premium prices for the two P238 pistols. But up till today, I still love them. The truth of the matter is no other .380 pistols on the market can compete with this model IMHO. I also bought RUGER LCP, and after the first range trip, I gave it up, and it has remained somewhere in my house since then and never been touched again; and the LCP is a joke. Wait till you pull that double-action trigger. Ok, the only thing that I don’t like some models of P238 is its grips, the plastic fluted grips, the stock grips. And I finally found a website that carries beautiful and high quality grips (both wood and aluminum), and I think each owner needs at least one pair even if it’s just for fun. They offer a wide variety of styles and colors, and the most complete “collection” of high quality P238 grips in the market today. Salute to them. here is the link of the web page for the grips:
http://www.rhynotek.com/Sig_Sauer_s/443.htm
Enjoy! You will love the grips.
Hey Joe
The website didnt post it the first two messages right away. You cant edit. So go talk to Caleb about that.
Second, I am trying to debunk for those who arent in the know–ie an owner–that this is not a 1991 gun other than the fact it is “single action” and has a manual safety. It has not the “heart of a 1911.”
“If you posess average motor skills and a normal IQ, this is a great gun and i recommend it everyone.” –Joe March 2010
“have resorted to my S&W 438 as my EDC since ive started having issues” –Joe July 2010
Still a great gun? A great gun stands the test of time–in my book 10 minutes to 1 year is not enough. By comparison there will be Glocks when earth is at the Planet of the Apes stage.
Oh BTW my barrel on the P238 is defective. There is a large 1 CM by 3-4 MM wavy defect on the top inside of the barrel under the top of the lug–clear as day. I wonder why this wasnt found on inspection? Maybe there are no quality inspections?
I replaced my recoil spring with a Wolff after i experianced some failure to go into battery. Beginning to have ejection issues now, i have had several spent cases get caught and actually tear the front of the case.
I also had a number of failure to fire, which i may attribute to cheap Herter’s ammo. Anyone else have these issues? The gun is about a year old, and i have resorted to my S&W 438 as my EDC since ive started having issues.
anybody have thoughts on these problems?
And to Fuzzy: thanks for your longwinded and excessivly over detailed opinion, but we only needed to read it once, not three times. I also havent measured my trigger, but i dont think its that heavy…
As a fellow P238 owner: Yes this feels nice in hand. Yes the recoil is manageable. Yes it has a good pair of sights. Yes it looks pretty. BUT this is NO 1911. Why?
1) the trigger is way way too heavy. It measures 8lbs. (Website spec says 10.5lbs–even worse) 8lbs for a SA trigger is nuts. Its basically a DA level weight trigger with no takeup or travel and without the benefit of the DA “safety” aspects. Its lousy stinking brick wall which kill the point of a 1911 trigger which is speed and accuracy. (Want to see a good production trigger Sig look at the Springfield EMP line and go back to your room and make one!) 2) the trigger reset is DEFECTIVE. Yes you heard me DEFECTIVE. What the hell was SIG thinking. If you let off the trigger (after a shot/dry fire of course) very very slowly you will notice there are 2 resets almost right on top of each other. You must catch both or the gun will not fire. If under stress you catch only one guess what you are out of luck and will freeze up due to the lock up. Where is Mr Kellerman when you need him! 3) this is not a 1911 trigger–it is a hinged trigger–a 1911 trigger slides in a slot/track.
In conclusion of for all the real 1911 fan boys out there–THIS IS NOT A 1911 because the heart of a 1911 is the trigger and no one except a Sig Coolaid drinker would say otherwise. Sig makes some very nice real 1911s like the C3 but this is a poorly executed trigger with what I consider triple epic fail. Do you think Sig is going to recall the trigger–yea right!
This gun has for many people NOT tolerate so called +p ammo such as Buffalo Bore. Their gun springs were made toast after a few rounds or there was battering or misfeeding or other malfunction–perhaps with a wolff spring it wont have so many problems but do you want to spend 100 bucks trying to find this out?
Finally the overpriced SIG mags. You only get one! And the Mustang mags made by Metalform from CDNN do NOT fit the P238. It will not go into battery (and no I’m not going to try to file them down to make it so!) Colt Mustang mags: I dont know but good luck finding those nowadays at a reasonable price.
There are other 380 guns with more to offer–like the Kahr p380. I have a new motto for SIG: “To hell with reliability!”
Yes this feels nice in hand. Yes the recoil is managable. Yes it has a good pair of sights. Yes it looks pretty. BUT this is NO 1911. Why?
1) the trigger is way way too heavy. It measures 8lbs. (Website spec says 10.5lbs–even worse) 8lbs for a SA trigger is nuts. Its basically a DA level weight trigger with no takeup or travel and without the benefit of the DA “safety” aspects. Its lousy stinking brick wall which kill the point of a 1911 trigger which is speed and accuracy. (Want to see a good production trigger Sig look at the Springfield EMP line and go back to your room and make one!) 2) the trigger reset is DEFECTIVE. Yes you heard me DEFECTIVE. What the hell was SIG thinking. If you let off the trigger (after a shot/dry fire of course) very very slowly you will notice there are 2 resets almost right on top of each other. You must catch both or the gun will not fire. If under stress you catch only one guess what you are out of luck and will freeze up due to the lock up. Where is Mr Kellerman when you need him! 3) this is not a 1911 trigger–it is a hinged trigger–a 1911 trigger slides in a slot/track.
In conclusion of for all the real 1911 fan boys out there–THIS IS NOT A 1911 because the heart of a 1911 is the trigger and no one except a Sig Coolaid drinker would say otherwise. Sig makes some very nice real 1911s like the C3 but this is a poorly executed trigger with what I consider triple epic fail. Do you think Sig is going to recall the trigger–yea right!
This gun has for many people NOT tolerate so called +p ammo such as Buffalo Bore. Their gun springs were made toast after a few rounds or there was battering or misfeeding or other malfunction–perhaps with a wolff spring it wont have so many problems but do you want to spend 100 bucks trying to find this out?
Finally the overpriced SIG mags. You only get one! And the Mustang mags made by Metalform from CDNN do NOT fit the P238. It will not go into battery (and no I’m not going to try to file them down to make it so!) Colt Mustang mags: I dont know but good luck finding those nowadays at a reasonable price.
There are other 380 guns with more to offer–like the Kahr p380. I have a new motto for SIG: “To hell with reliability!”
Yes this feels nice in hand. Yes the recoil is managable. Yes it has a good pair of sights. Yes it looks pretty. BUT this is NO 1911. Why?
1) the trigger is way way too heavy. It measures 8lbs. (Website spec says 10.5lbs–even worse) 8lbs for a SA trigger is nuts. Its basically a DA level weight trigger with no takeup or travel and without the benefit of the DA “safety” aspects. Its lousy stinking brick wall which kill the point of a 1911 trigger which is speed and accuracy. (Want to see a good production trigger Sig look at the Springfield EMP line and go back to your room and make one!) 2) the trigger reset is DEFECTIVE. Yes you heard me DEFECTIVE. What the hell was SIG thinking. If you let off the trigger (after a shot/dry fire of course) very very slowly you will notice there are 2 resets almost right on top of each other. You must catch both or the gun will not fire. If under stress you catch only one guess what you are out of luck and will freeze up due to the lock up. Where is Mr Kellerman when you need him! 3) this is not a 1911 trigger–it is a hinged trigger–a 1911 trigger slides in a slot/track.
In conclusion of for all the real 1911 fan boys out there–THIS IS NOT A 1911 because the heart of a 1911 is the trigger and no one except a Sig Coolaid drinker would say otherwise. Sig makes some very nice real 1911s like the C3 but this is a poorly executed trigger with what I consider triple epic fail. Do you think Sig is going to recall the trigger–yea right!
I had a 238 that wasn’t returning to battery every time. I replaced my stock spring with a wolff extra power- probem went away immediately. Now the little 238 is as reliable as my Mustang. The only thing I noticed is that the wolff spring compressed has a greater OAL than the Sig factory one, so my slide does not travel far enough under recoil to engage the slide catch.
Anyone else experience this?
Another note on the P238:
For those who own one and shoot it a lot:
It’s come to my attention by personal experience, and from wandering the gun forums, that the recoil spring on the P238 goes weak after around 300-500 rounds.
This’ll cause intermittent malfunctions and possibly can batter the frame.
The easiest way to check this, is by measuring the recoil spring. Un-compressed, it should be 3- 3 1/2 inches long. Anything under 2 1/2 inches will need replacement.
Sig will do it for you, but it’s just easier to order a 12 pound spring from Wolff (for the Colt Mustang, same spring for our 238) and replace it yourself. They run about $8.
My new spring is in the mail now. After about 600 rounds the old one went from 3 1/4″ down to 2 1/4. Some photos on the web show even worse.
An easy fix, or preventive maintenance, whatever you want to call it.
I own a blued Ruger LCP, a stainless Taurus TCP and the Sig Sauer P238 Tactical Laser. They are all great pistolas in their own right. The chump who calls the .380 acp a junk round hasn’t shot any Buffalo Bore +P .380 ammo. That stuff is HOT! The micro-compact .380s are perfect for discrete carry when even the really compact Taurus 745 Millennium Pro .45 acp single stacker is a wee bit too much to conceal. And, the Sig Sauer 238 is the best .380 on the market today…….IMHO.
THERES ALOT OF CHOICES OUT HERE,I WAS COMFORTABLE WITH THE S&W 640 IN THE GALCO ANKLE GLOVE AS MY “BACK UP ” PRIMARY DUTY WEAPON BEING A SIG 220.THE ‘WHEELGUN” IS OVER LOOKED ANY MORE,WHICH IS A SHAME.THIS SNUBNOSE LOADED WITH 5- .357 ROUNDS WILL BE ENOUGH ANYWHERE , ANY TIME.STAY SAFE AND TRAIN WELL,SHOOTING SKILLS NEED REGULAR USE OR THEY CAN DETERIORATE.
Tell ya what,although i’ve read a few of the new ammo box’s that are out and they say 1150 fps. and more…cor bon I think, and the new one by Winchester DPX1, for sake of an arguement.Lets say ur right, at 850 to 900 fps.Shot in the forehead, or anywhere else for that matter, HE’S GOIN DOWN…!!
Dragon–I wish .380 could get 1200 ft/sec. It would be the greatest defensive round of all time! Actually, you can achieve 1200 with the same lead–it is called .357 magnum or .357 sig. no way you could get close with .380, though. same lead with 9 mm and can get close to 1200 if you use +p+. .380 is called 9mm short in europe
Joe I hate to bust your bubble, but the commercial 380 rounds don’t come anywhere close to 1200 feet per second. I have chronographed many and they are more in the range of 850 to 900 fps with a light bullet.
My second post here regarding the rainbow P238.
The “pimp-o-matic” continues to do well. About 500 rounds so far; usually 100 per outing, with a cleaning afterwords. Really accurate little pistol; 4″ @ 15 yards is the norm, and I was consistently hitting a burn barrel @ 50 yards without effort.
An earlier issue with light strikes has resolved itself. Seems the pistol was just slightly out of battery due to a lead bullet shaving between the barrel & hood. The slide wasn’t quite shut, causing the hammer-fall to shut the slide, and hit the firing pin (but without enough force to set it off)
Anyway, this one’s a keeper. Got a ‘High Noon’ horsehide pocket holster and another ($40!!) magazine for it. Couldn’t find a Mustang magazine locally. Maybe next thing will be a metal trigger for it.
Arne, Beg to differ with you, but I’ve had no problem with any 6 or 7 round Mustang mags in my 238. I’ve got 9 of them to include two 7 rounders and all are flawless.
When I read some of the comments left by others,I sometimes wonder if we are all on the same page.( Mabe the same planet!)If I walk up to someone and PUNCH him in the gut,in all likelyhood he’s goin down.If I walk up to someone and stick a 3 inch blade in his gut,he’s goin down.Now,what the heck do you think is gonna happen to that same fella when he gets hit with a bullet in the gut…or forehead…or any other part of his body..doin 1100 to 1200 FPS….?……I’ll tell ya what……HE’S GOIN DOWN!
Hello all just wanted to throw it out there that if you use Mustang mags you may have a problem extracting the last round of the mag due to the follower being about .100 taller than that of the sig mags. Also the 7 round mustang mags will not fit in the sig with 7 in them. due to the above dimension. I had feed issues at first but i found this gun likes to be well lubricated. gunslick on the slide and all components sprayed LIGHTLY with CLP before use.
(Today is March 28th. Brought the pistol yesterday, and it was produced March 3rd of this year. They must really be cranking them out.)
Mine’s the “pimp-o-matic”
Black frame, wood grips, night sights, and that rainbow finish. It shoots very well, with no feeding or ejecting issues with 200 rounds threw it today. 100, 100gr LRN, 50, 95gr FMJ, and 40, 95gr gold dots. Feed ramp on mine was very nice, they must have listened to complaints & fixed that problem.
Accuracy is good for a mousegun, probably due to the usable sights. 4″ groups @ 15 yards, handheld, slow fire. Fits very well inside your pocket.
Only one issue however. 4 times, the pistol had to be re-cocked & fired. The firing pin does not seem to have enough energy to set off the primer sometimes. The hammer spring is strong; I’m thinking the fp return spring might be too heavy, and need a coil or 2 clipped off.
We’ll see after a couple more outings to the woods.
All in all, this one’s a keeper, it’ll replace my Kel-Tec p32 for summer carry.
I own the P-238 Sig .380. Mine is the two-tone with black and gray grips. My buddy has the Equenox version. I had trouble with feeding rounds when I recieved it. This was when hand cycling the action. Hydro shocks would not feed at all. What I did was take some Honda Metal Polish and I hand polished the feed ramp. The P238 has a very steep ramp angle and is rough. After polishing the ramp, ALL ammo I had hand cycled fine. A trip to the range gave me no malfunctions. Ammo shot included Corbon 90gr. hollow point, Corbon DPX, Hydroshock 90gr, Eagle FMJ, and Buffallo Bore 95gr FMJ solid Flatpoint. My buddy did the same to his and also ran trouble free. Do keep in mind that hand cycling is not the same as actual firing of the weapon. I like the gun a lot. It conceals well, has enough weight to kill recoil, but not too much to carry, and fires a round that will do the job if you hit the target. Many on this blog have commented on the importance of shot placement. Coming from a kid who started out shooting with a Daisy BB gun and killing rabbits with “eye” shots, i can tell you that with any gun, its about shot placement. The 380 is not very powerful, but the round is shot through very light and small concealed guns. Nobody is going to hit fast and accurate shooting a bazooka caliber in a truly concealable handgun. Better off with the 380 round that will do the job if you hit your target. I find my 380 to easily be able to hit my mark due to its low recoil. As far as ammo goes, I think most any will do the trick under most circumstances. For me I use the Buffalo Bore 95gr. Flatpoint solid. I know it will penetrate at any angle and I am confident that shot placement will do the rest…
To Joe–You convinced me to carry condition 1.
I think it is a good looking weapon. I don’t understand what is ugly about it? every time I show it to someone who has not seen one, they always say “wow”. Also, it fits fine it the pocket holster that I originally bought for my LCP.
I must be different or something. I keep hearing negative comments about the basic black grips. Mine is the least expensive 238 I could get. $499, black nitron with black grips. I absolutly love it. As a carry gun, I have always felt that nothing fancy is my best bet. That way as it gets nicked,scratched and beat up over time, I don’t worry about it.
Took Mama out the other day, and she shot several guns. (we both have lifetime CCW Permits)
She shot the p238 real well. Looks like it may cost me another $500, or I’ll be back to the snub nose 38.
I have to agree with JeistD, i have a number of CCW guns, and my 9mm Glock 26 is the largest. Its just not concealable enough sometimes, even with the excellent Galco Skyops holster. My P238 and S&W Bodyguard are the two i carry most. By the way, if you are looking for a great holster, DM Bullard in Azle TX (website) makes some excellent affordable holsters for it. I have a pocket and IWB from them, superb quality.
Absolutely right kalashnikov. The reason I carry the P238 as my primary CCW is because, it is after all “CONCEAL” carry. There are few guns that you can conceal so well that you could carry to work with no one knowing. There is no law being broken in carrying to work. But, if you employer finds out you could be terminated (depending on company policy) so, should you choose to carry to such a place, concealment is of the utmost importance. I agree that carrying a .357, 9mm or .45 is much preferred but, the reality is, with a few exceptions, you are not going to be able to conceal those larger weapons as much.
So, to sum it up, I would rather have a .380 on me all the time than a .45 on me 50% of the time.
A lot of people are bashing 380′s, I think their missing the point of this cal gun. It is a backup, not a primary CCW. I have sevral primary CCW’s 38 special, XDM 9mm, 45 1911, and working on gettin a s&w 500 with a 4″ barrel. But my point is my 380 which is a Taurus TCP is a back up. FYI, don’t waste ur money on a TCP of ur looking at one, I’m bringing mine back cause a really friendly dude at my local range let me shoot his Sig 380 1911 and It shot like a dream, so I’m gonna trade the crappy TCP for some store credit.
Cleaned my just received new P-238. In order, six Speer Gold Dot 90gr.GDHP with first shot ok, second a jam then the sixth failed to eject. 12 Hornady 90gr.HP/XTP-FPD with no problems, 18 Aguila 90gr.Hp with no problems, 15 Herters/Indonesia 95gr.FMJ no problems except for light smoke from this inexpensive load. Went back with 12 Gold Dot 90gr.GDHP and all shot ok. Shot very accurate with all loads but feel the trigger pull could be less. Manual shows it to be 7.5 to 8.5 but have not checked. I like it very much and will burn more shells next trip.
To idaho ladybug (and others)
I carry hornady critical defense in mine, it feeds excellently and the bullet preforms very well in wet paper, water, through wood, etc. Its an excellent round.
for range loads, the only thing mine doesnt like is flat points like winchester. any other FMJ round or conical ball round feeds fine. it did take about 200 rounds to become *flawless*, but now it feeds 100%. A polish on the feedramp is a real helper.
I’m going to purchase one of these soon, and I’m looking for ammo recommendations for both the practice range and for personal protection carry. Do you have better luck ordering ammo online or through a store like Cabela’s? Thanks!
To answer TRA1′s question regarding condition one carry: as long as the gun is in a proper holster, it is fine. Attempting to manually cock the hammer on this gun (and most all 1911′s) in a life or death defensive situation is not practical and beyond the design concept of the gun.
Try it with an unloaded gun and youll see what I mean. The operation is time consuming (two seconds at least) and akward at best. Watch where the muzzle goes while you try to cock it. Now try it with one hand only. A 1911 in condition one is every bit as safe or safer than any double action revolver or striker fired pistol (glock/xd).
I am surprised to see so much negative about this gun. I’ve had mine since August, and had virtually *zero* issues. Maybe one or two fail to feed, but that was with FN practice ammo and the feed ramp doesnt have much of an angle.
This is pretty much my EDC, in a IWB holster in condition one. I find it to be extremely accurate and have exceptionally managable recoil. Compared to the vast majority of the new breed of CCW pistols, it actually has functional sights too. My only complaint is that the thumb safety is difficult to engage. It snaps down cleanly and with authority, and that is the most important part to me.
I was lucky to find a dual tone model with black frame & grips and a silver slide. I have noticed the price coming down to a reasonable price. A good friend of mine also carries one and he paid $650 for the night sight/rosewood grip setup.
I owned a micro desert eagle, kept it for 6 months then traded in toward a glock 26. The micro eagle cant hold a candle to the P238 and neither can the LCP. This is just one great little shooter for anyone who is capable of learning the 1911 style platform.
Its really a bit too big to be a true pocket gun, although with cargo pants and an excellent pocket holster from DM Bullard (Azle, TX) i have done this on occasion. IWB for this gun is just so comfortable pocket carry isnt a big deal to me.
If you posess average motor skills and a normal IQ, this is a great gun and i recommend it everyone.
SIG should pony up a second mag considering the cost of the gun though…..
I purchased the two tone version of the p238 new a couple weeks ago. After a thorough cleaning, on my on first trip to the range I went through 50 rounds of Magtech 95 gr FMJs without any issues at all. Great gun, very accurate.
I am having concerns with the condition 1 carry idea from a safety stand point and would like the opinion from some of the experienced folks on this forum.
Is there anything wrong with having a round in the chamber with the hammer forward? I believe this is condition 2? Where as you must cock the hammer before the pistol will fire. Is this not a safer method of carry than the cocked and locked method?
A thorough explanation of the pros and cons of each would be very welcome.
@PaulCS: That is interesting. You should try some other a