Comments on: “Hole” vehicle armor being developed in UK http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/01/15/hole-vehicle-armor-being-developed-in-uk/ Firearms not Politics Sat, 21 Nov 2009 08:18:29 +1300 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: thekit http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/01/15/hole-vehicle-armor-being-developed-in-uk/#comment-6381 thekit Sat, 14 Feb 2009 14:37:11 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=4344#comment-6381 It's probably designed as an up armor applique. If you space it far enough away from the very light armor skin of something like a conventional up-armor humvee, you might be able to predetonate the rpgs and ruin their focus, and also make all the ap bullets that strike the little holes keyhole and fail to be able to point their ap hard penetrator cores at the target. flechettes, might be able to pass through, provided the holes are greater than the diameter of the flechette or the flechette is long enough to stay on track when passing through the hard steel, and heavy enough to keep going after impact. on the other hand, I don't know of any small arms that have successfully fired flechettes and have been fielded in any numbers. Even the .50 cal sabot round the marines use is actually a subcaliber projectile which is bullet shaped, rather than a long thin finned flechette. And I'm not sure what a blast wave would do after it goes through a whole bunch of little holes. Reinforce itself at antinodes and do more damage? need to do some physics there, or just study the damage after meeting an IED. It’s probably designed as an up armor applique. If you space it far enough away from the very light armor skin of something like a conventional up-armor humvee, you might be able to predetonate the rpgs and ruin their focus, and also make all the ap bullets that strike the little holes keyhole and fail to be able to point their ap hard penetrator cores at the target.

flechettes, might be able to pass through, provided the holes are greater than the diameter of the flechette or the flechette is long enough to stay on track when passing through the hard steel, and heavy enough to keep going after impact.

on the other hand, I don’t know of any small arms that have successfully fired flechettes and have been fielded in any numbers. Even the .50 cal sabot round the marines use is actually a subcaliber projectile which is bullet shaped, rather than a long thin finned flechette.

And I’m not sure what a blast wave would do after it goes through a whole bunch of little holes. Reinforce itself at antinodes and do more damage? need to do some physics there, or just study the damage after meeting an IED.

]]> By: EzGoingKev http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/01/15/hole-vehicle-armor-being-developed-in-uk/#comment-4987 EzGoingKev Thu, 15 Jan 2009 19:57:21 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=4344#comment-4987 I really don't see it. What about a flechettes, claymore type weapon with smaller metal balls. Also there is huge reduction in liquid or gas type attacks. I really don’t see it.

What about a flechettes, claymore type weapon with smaller metal balls.

Also there is huge reduction in liquid or gas type attacks.

]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/01/15/hole-vehicle-armor-being-developed-in-uk/#comment-4986 Steve Thu, 15 Jan 2009 19:34:43 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=4344#comment-4986 Sven, thanks for the correction Sven, thanks for the correction

]]> By: Sven Ortmann http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/01/15/hole-vehicle-armor-being-developed-in-uk/#comment-4982 Sven Ortmann Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:08:43 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=4344#comment-4982 Steve, shaped charges don't use "molten metal". "It is universally agreed that conical liner collapse and target penetration both occur by hydrodynamic flow. However, it has been established by X-ray diffraction that the jet is solid metal and not molten. Additionally, best estimates of jet temperature by incandescence colour suggest a mean value of about 450°C, and copper melts at 1083°C at atmospheric pressure. So the following conundrum is the first confusion: The jet appears to behave like a fluid, and yet it is known to be a solid. One recent theory that would help explain this is that the jet has a molten core but with a solid outer sheath. " http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/bullets2-shaped-charge.htm Steve, shaped charges don’t use “molten metal”.

“It is universally agreed that conical liner collapse and target penetration both occur by hydrodynamic flow. However, it has been established by X-ray diffraction that the jet is solid metal and not molten. Additionally, best estimates of jet temperature by incandescence colour suggest a mean value of about 450°C, and copper melts at 1083°C at atmospheric pressure. So the following conundrum is the first confusion: The jet appears to behave like a fluid, and yet it is known to be a solid. One recent theory that would help explain this is that the jet has a molten core but with a solid outer sheath. “

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/bullets2-shaped-charge.htm

]]> By: Lori http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/01/15/hole-vehicle-armor-being-developed-in-uk/#comment-4975 Lori Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:11:23 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=4344#comment-4975 Buddy I am loving your blog, something I can actually read at work, great blog Lori Buddy I am loving your blog, something I can actually read at work, great blog

Lori

]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/01/15/hole-vehicle-armor-being-developed-in-uk/#comment-4972 Steve Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:59:40 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=4344#comment-4972 null, thanks for the info. null, thanks for the info.

]]> By: null http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/01/15/hole-vehicle-armor-being-developed-in-uk/#comment-4971 null Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:55:17 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=4344#comment-4971 http://www.dstl.gov.uk/news_events/press/pr2009/7-1-09.pdf Here is the original press release the Defense Talk article is lifted from, and it includes a picture. After looking at the picture, it becomes obvious. It's not the hole, it's the edge of the hole. Since this Super Bainite stuff is stronger, it can be made thinner, and put on stuff like Humvees instead of just tanks...I think that is the angle they are going for. This super bainite stuff has been the topic of a lot of press releases over the last year or so. Looks to me like the UK is fishing for a customer. http://www.dstl.gov.uk/news_events/press/pr2009/7-1-09.pdf

Here is the original press release the Defense Talk article is lifted from, and it includes a picture. After looking at the picture, it becomes obvious. It’s not the hole, it’s the edge of the hole. Since this Super Bainite stuff is stronger, it can be made thinner, and put on stuff like Humvees instead of just tanks…I think that is the angle they are going for.

This super bainite stuff has been the topic of a lot of press releases over the last year or so. Looks to me like the UK is fishing for a customer.

]]> By: Bullet Boy http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/01/15/hole-vehicle-armor-being-developed-in-uk/#comment-4966 Bullet Boy Thu, 15 Jan 2009 07:51:46 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=4344#comment-4966 Won't the hole's make for weaker metal also? Unless it is some type of cast system I doubt it will be much cheaper to produce. But then again the post says "covered in holes". I'm gonna need to see pictures to fully comprehend or pass judgment. Won’t the hole’s make for weaker metal also? Unless it is some type of cast system I doubt it will be much cheaper to produce. But then again the post says “covered in holes”. I’m gonna need to see pictures to fully comprehend or pass judgment.

]]> By: jdun1911 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/01/15/hole-vehicle-armor-being-developed-in-uk/#comment-4961 jdun1911 Thu, 15 Jan 2009 07:19:01 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=4344#comment-4961 I think the professor should go out and shoot some guns. It might work on non-AP light rounds like 5.56 and 7.62x39. I doubt it will be effect against larger caliber bullets. I think the professor should go out and shoot some guns. It might work on non-AP light rounds like 5.56 and 7.62×39. I doubt it will be effect against larger caliber bullets.

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