Comments on: MP5 is more deadly than AK says Indian Commando

By: aryan99

aryan99 — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 19:48:01 +0000

jdun1911

you should read more. US law enforcement and military units still use mp5s because they dont trust the 5.56mm round that much. aint got much stopping power. isnt that why new 6.5 and 6.8mm rounds are coming into play these days?
and do you even know anything about weapons? let alone mp5
because you sound pretty stupid when talking about them.

now, about Indian special forces, we are one of the best in the world. and boy, none of those terrorists escaped. all except one were killed. the captured one is still here. he was useful to expose the roots of the attack. a policeman while recieving almost a full m43 rounds, threw himself upon a terrorist and kept him down so that he can be taken alive.
so, from wherever you are, jdun 1911, i dont think you people have the balls enough to do anything like that.

we couldnt storm the hotels under adrenaline cos this isnt call of duty game. those hostages were our brothers, sisters and guests from other nations( we do consider guests as equal to god. ask the foriegn survivors from 26/11 and they will tell you legends about the Taj hotel employess) and had we did something random, not one would be alive. so if you knew a thing about close quarter combing operation under a hostage situation in an civilian filled urban environment, you would have shut up already. please keep your damn mouth shut and stop embarassing yourself.

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By: shudip

shudip — Fri, 07 Oct 2011 03:43:31 +0000

I am not able to open the link to reply regarding Sam’s latest comment. From the text of his comment it appears that he is not really familiar with the outstanding track record of the Indian Army Paracommondos both in war and low intensity conflicts. He is also biased in favour of the navy Marcos, which completely failed to counteract Pakistani terrorists in Mumbai in November 2008 and had to withdraw. It was actually the Paracommandos, which form the backbone of the SAG 51 and SAG 52, the actual combat arms of the NSG that exterminated the Pakistani terrorists. They also make up the Special Group with the SFF (another army outfit), which is India’s premier yet most secretive counter-terrorist unit. They would make Marcos seem like kindergarten stuff. Yes the Special Ranger’s Group of the NSG is made up of men from central police organizations, which plays second fiddle to the Army personnel in the NSG.

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By: Sam

Sam — Thu, 06 Oct 2011 23:21:14 +0000

Dnt knw wht u guys ar talkng abut…the marcos are far better trained than those para commandos and black cats which is more or less a police commando force governed by the home ministry. There are only 500-800 marcos. They also works wit the RAW in covert operations behind enemy line. There should be no comparision between marcos and nsg. Recently the navy chief urged the marcos to train those black cats.SO THEY CAN ONLY BE COMPARED AS TEACHER AND STUDENTS.

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By: HotelCoralEssex

HotelCoralEssex — Wed, 09 Mar 2011 20:58:02 +0000

The entire subcontinent is awash in corruption and incompetence. No side is better than any others, most of the people in power on both sides are power hungry criminals and gangsters, and nothing is going to change there until the cultures on both sides change for the better.

It doesn’t surprise me at all that an Indian or Pakistani LE representative would say something like this. It would also not surprise me if he actually believed what he was saying.

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By: mp5fav

mp5fav — Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:02:11 +0000

The Ak47 is an assault rifle; hardier than the M16. In terms of firepower, it beats the latter. It certainly beats the MP5 in that respect. The only time the AK47 beats the M16 is at longer range accuracy. The MP5 itself isn’t very accurate over longer distances, the kind assault rifles are accustomed to. If you’re talking about 20 yards, sure, the MP5 beats most assault rifles overall, especially in terms of accuracy and ease of use, but in populated areas where the attacks took place and military forces, some of which were “elite”, were converging on the terrorists, to say the MP5 is superior to the AK47 is an only an excuse for not being able to resolve the situation quickly. Where was all that training in marksmanship?

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By: Bobby P

Bobby P — Sat, 16 Jan 2010 06:15:37 +0000

At Markilu,

When did I say Indian forces are pathetic? What are you talking about…

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By: markilu

markilu — Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:18:00 +0000

If the indian special forces are pathetic, then why is the green berets training at CIJWS ?

That should answer it all.

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By: Kevlar

Kevlar — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 21:30:46 +0000

Just an aside, most of the Enfields still in use in India are Ishapore 2As chambered in 7.62 NATO with a 12 round magazine, manufactured in the 1960s. I have one, they are great.

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By: shudip

shudip — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 08:18:29 +0000

What have you done with my comments on 26/11

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By: subby

subby — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 09:15:48 +0000

Its just publicity, I’m sure people in india are much more ignorant about guns than people who live in the us. Just politicians trying to save face for their being completely unprepared.

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By: vance

vance — Sat, 14 Mar 2009 06:21:17 +0000

I’m sure that the AK47 is deadlier than the MP5 as to its range and a very good rifle for urban combat exept for its recoil at automatic mode whereas Mp5 is good for extremely close combat but can be stopped by even cheap b.vests(Recall how Karkare was killed by an AK even thought in bullet proof vest).As for the quarrel above,think yourself if you are there in that situation or at least visit those areas of attack especially the Taj.Sitting safely in your room with a remote and mouse at hand and passing comments like Rambo wont do any good coz Rambo is a fantasy.

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By: manstopper

manstopper — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:14:38 +0000

Stay calm people, and accept other’s opinions. Handle others’ comments with a cool, logical answer without sticking your fingers in other’s eyes. Take-no-prisoner rants and raves never works. Using an angry tone is never a persuasive technique.

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By: Bobby P

Bobby P — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 04:20:52 +0000

Sid, are you saying you were an NSG commando or were you part of the MARCOS or just a witness?…It is strictly prohibited to give your identity if you are an NSG or MARCOS member…And David I don’t understand what your point is? The MARCOS are based on the SAS and US Navy Seals and are equipped and trained the same way as a SEAL or an SAS operative…SAS use MP5′s as primary weapon, MARCOS use MP5 as primary weapon…MARCOS train CQB and head-shot procedure a million times over…same with the SAS. I dont see why you are hell bent on the NSG and MARCOS getting more training from Seals/SAS/GIGN…or whoever.

And whats all this crap about India being ill-equipped and ill-trained. India spends $30 Billion on military…which is 3rd/4th highest in the world….I mean come on. Blaming the NSG/MARCOS for slow response; its not their fault. Its all political bullshit, we cant blame the soldiers for it, we must blame the politcians.

And, unfortunately 2 brave commandos lost their life. Not 10, I dont know what your sources are…

MARCOS battle terrorists in Kashmir everyday, with 100% success rate, lets hope it remains like that. They are one of the elite units in the world. Does’nt matter what you all say or think.

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By: i-luv-1911

i-luv-1911 — Sun, 18 Jan 2009 14:25:47 +0000

the terrorists are mainly armed with kalashnikovs (ak47, 7.62×39) while the cts are armed with FN FAL 7.62×51, Lee-Enfield .303 and MP5 9×19(main).

7.62×39 –>medium recoil. able to penetrate walls, some body armor, high stopping power.
9×19–>low recoil. wall penetration? some degree. defeat body armor? NOPE. unless close range of course. stopping power is, well, low. but in the hotel the range is really low. it can stop effectively.
.303–> the ct force didnt use this the hotel. plus nobody will use this in urban close range conditions.
7.62×51–>i dunno if the cts used this in the hotel…

verdict: both main weapons have their pros and cons, but in those conditions both would work the same. it doesnt matter who was using what. the mumbai police have no excuse to the incident.

pyschologically, i would pee in my pants if i hear an ak47 go off. the muzzle brake kills all ears. i dont think the commandoes would do that though.

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By: David Brown

David Brown — Sat, 17 Jan 2009 21:50:48 +0000

Sid, I would like to sympathize with you since you are an Indian and you witnessed it personally. May I know in what capacity were you present there? It is very interesting to have a feedback from the person who seems to be a professional and was present there on the scene.

What is your idea in terms of failure on the part of Indian government, Indian security forces and Indian media. I understand that it was an unusual situation but media coverage gave an impression that entire Indian machinery was in chaos. It was an incident of terrorism, whereas the entire nation was seem to be in the state of war. What will happen if India has to go on war with Pakistan for which, very unfortunately, your government seems to be bent upon.

I understand that I have hurled too many questions at you. All of them are, however, peripheral. My main question is, if you put your emotionalism and nationalism aside, what were the deficiencies in terms of special weapons and tactics on the part of Indian Special forces? What would you suggest to your government or your commander regarding weapons, tactics and training to combat such situation in future?

The logic of this question is that you cannot afford anymore failure in future. You faced more or less similar terrorism when your parliament was attacked, but it seems as if neither the lessons were learned nor did your military made any serious effort to foresee and plan to counter such situations.

And last but not the least, leave your nationalism aside, would you like your special forces be trained by US commandos if it is officially offered to you by our government?

Please reply.

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By: anton

anton — Sat, 17 Jan 2009 18:48:09 +0000

Prove it.

Period.

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By: Sid

Sid — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 00:48:43 +0000

10 commandos lost their lives? Where are you getting your facts from? There was only one NSG casualty in the entire operation. The whole base of the original article is wrong and some of the posters dont know their elbow from their asshole. The terrorists werent using MP5′s they had AK’s AND frag grenades. Have you faced a frag grenade in a closed room with hostages? Do you know what it does to you? ANY special operations trooper will be shitting bricks in such a situation. It doesnt matter who you are SAS,GSG9 or Delta. A fanatical terrorist in a closed room with a bag full of grenades and a AK with hostages = A perfect nightmare.
The lone terrorist in chabad house picked up the mp5 of the slain NSG trooper and fired a few shots with it before being executed. The NSG has had 2 casualties so far in its ENTIRE OPERATIONAL HISTORY. Dont trust the Indian media on facts..They get their military facts wrong pretty easily.As for me I was personally there.

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By: David Brown

David Brown — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:44:26 +0000

Bobby P, that’s what I tried to mention that Indian commandos need training. Now Indian government has accepted the failure in this area. This is a reactive approach. When India is situated in such a volatile region and present in Afghanistan, its repercussions were bound to reach India.

That was the failure generally on the part of Indian government and particularly on the part of Indian armed forces that they did not foresee the situation and trained and equipped themselves for a just-in-case situation.

Now it is important to determine from where Indian security forces get training to combat such a determined, fanatic die-hard attackers. These guys are perfect killing machines. I guess there were many casualties among Indian commandos. I can assess this by observing images and extent of details available on Internet and media resources.

The hotel they fought in was like a labyrinth. Searching and killing terrorists with hostages was a daunting task for Indian commandos. Ill-equipped and ill-trained Indian commandos must have bore the brunt of ruthless and bent-upon-death diehards.

I guess at least 10 to 12 Indian commandos must have lost their lives. During these gun-battles, many hostages must have been killed, all of them credited to terrorists. This is the worst part that will never be disclosed by Indian authorities. This is where training come into play. If Indian commandos had been trained professionally and equipped with right weapons such as corner shots, etc. the result of this gun-battle would have been quite different.

I suggest, Indian commandos should contact either US, UK or Israel for such training. I doubt if they could develop this capability on their own.

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By: Larry

Larry — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 04:30:34 +0000

I don’t know the equipment that I saw the NSG teams carry looked like the old RBA coupled with crash helmets (or motor cycle helmets). The don’t seem to be very well funded, especially given their terrorism problem. This leads me to believe that they don’t have very good night vision devices (possibly 1st gen), if any at all, which could have been a decisive advantage.

I know equipment does not make the Soldier, but in a scrap I know it helps.

This tragic episode does nothing for India’s military reputation.

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By: Bobby P

Bobby P — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 10:18:06 +0000

And David, the Indian government has promised to place NSG teams to tackle terrorist hostage taking scenarios. They have promised to increase spending on training, and equipment. And also have promised to train and equip the local police to deal with such situations.

The NSG commandos will now be placed in major Indian cities such as Mumbai, Bangalore, Hyderabad, Chennai, Kolkatta and New Delhi. They will be assigned to their bases permanently.

Lets hope this will happen.

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