Comments on: 30 Remington AR: New cartridge for the AR-15 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/10/14/30-remington-ar-new-cartridge-for-the-ar-15/ Firearms not Politics Sat, 21 Nov 2009 13:38:33 +1300 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/10/14/30-remington-ar-new-cartridge-for-the-ar-15/#comment-17559 Steve Tue, 03 Nov 2009 08:34:27 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=2844#comment-17559 Fellas, this blog post is for discussion about the .30 AR, not if a AR-15 should be used for hunting. Any future offtopic comments will be deleted. Fellas, this blog post is for discussion about the .30 AR, not if a AR-15 should be used for hunting. Any future offtopic comments will be deleted.

]]> By: Dean http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/10/14/30-remington-ar-new-cartridge-for-the-ar-15/#comment-17558 Dean Tue, 03 Nov 2009 08:23:10 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=2844#comment-17558 Jim W, Try acting your age, instead of your shoe size. Jim W,

Try acting your age, instead of your shoe size.

]]> By: Jim W http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/10/14/30-remington-ar-new-cartridge-for-the-ar-15/#comment-17521 Jim W Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:16:09 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=2844#comment-17521 Dean is pretty obviously a fudd who doesn't like dem scurry black rifles. Ironic that he sees absolutely nothing wrong with 30-30 or the 30 Remington. These guys are the cancer that is killing the gun rights movement. Thank god they haven't succeeded in passing this mentality on to the next generation. I see this cartridge as occupying the same basic space as the 30 whisper and 6.8 SPC. Effective range versus deer or human size targets should be at least in the 400-500 yard range. 7.62x39 is good out to 200-300 yards and the 308 is good out to 600+, so I don't think 400 is a stretch at all. It should beat the pants off 5.56x45 for anything larger than groundhogs. Most deer hunters shoot at point blank range anyway (100 yards or under), so this is pretty much moot. My main gripe with this cartridge is that: -it fits single stack into 450 bushmaster mags. This pretty much kills it for any use other than deer hunting. -It isn't that much more powerful than 30 whisper or 6.8SPC to justify sacrificing 2/3rds of the magazine capacity. -The rifles that chamber it aren't that much lighter than an AR-10 to justify a specialty magazine and cartridge. And I'll bet the 30 RAR rifles weigh more than 6.8 SPC rifles. So basically this is just an expensive and oversized 6.8 SPC. Pass. Dean is pretty obviously a fudd who doesn’t like dem scurry black rifles. Ironic that he sees absolutely nothing wrong with 30-30 or the 30 Remington. These guys are the cancer that is killing the gun rights movement. Thank god they haven’t succeeded in passing this mentality on to the next generation.

I see this cartridge as occupying the same basic space as the 30 whisper and 6.8 SPC. Effective range versus deer or human size targets should be at least in the 400-500 yard range. 7.62×39 is good out to 200-300 yards and the 308 is good out to 600+, so I don’t think 400 is a stretch at all. It should beat the pants off 5.56×45 for anything larger than groundhogs. Most deer hunters shoot at point blank range anyway (100 yards or under), so this is pretty much moot.

My main gripe with this cartridge is that:
-it fits single stack into 450 bushmaster mags. This pretty much kills it for any use other than deer hunting.
-It isn’t that much more powerful than 30 whisper or 6.8SPC to justify sacrificing 2/3rds of the magazine capacity.
-The rifles that chamber it aren’t that much lighter than an AR-10 to justify a specialty magazine and cartridge. And I’ll bet the 30 RAR rifles weigh more than 6.8 SPC rifles.

So basically this is just an expensive and oversized 6.8 SPC. Pass.

]]> By: Dean http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/10/14/30-remington-ar-new-cartridge-for-the-ar-15/#comment-16510 Dean Sun, 18 Oct 2009 05:10:26 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=2844#comment-16510 William Reich, Didn't that round begin a whole series of rounds known collectively as the "Bench Rest" or "BR" rounds, such as the 6.5mm BR or the 7mm BR? William Reich,

Didn’t that round begin a whole series of rounds known collectively as the “Bench Rest” or “BR” rounds, such as the 6.5mm BR or the 7mm BR?

]]> By: William Reich http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/10/14/30-remington-ar-new-cartridge-for-the-ar-15/#comment-16495 William Reich Sun, 18 Oct 2009 00:12:34 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=2844#comment-16495 The Remington 30 AR really isn't a new idea. In 1961 a cartridge developed by Frank C. Barnes known as the .308x1.5 inch. It is very similar to the Remington 30 AR cartridge. Weapons chambered for the 308x1.5 inch cartridge were submitted for testing by the U.S. Government, but nothing came out of the testing that we know of today except they were very accurate. More information on the 308x1.5 inch can be found in the book "Cartridges Of The World" and on the internet. Reloading dies are available from RCBS and other die manufactures. Chambering reamers are available also. This cartridge is almost 50 years old and there is life in it and its future. The Remington 30 AR really isn’t a new idea. In 1961 a cartridge developed by Frank C. Barnes known as the .308×1.5 inch. It is very similar to the Remington 30 AR cartridge. Weapons chambered for the 308×1.5 inch cartridge were submitted for testing by the U.S. Government, but nothing came out of the testing that we know of today except they were very accurate. More information on the 308×1.5 inch can be found in the book “Cartridges Of The World” and on the internet. Reloading dies are available from RCBS and other die manufactures. Chambering reamers are available also. This cartridge is almost 50 years old and there is life in it and its future.

]]> By: Dean http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/10/14/30-remington-ar-new-cartridge-for-the-ar-15/#comment-14821 Dean Mon, 21 Sep 2009 05:07:23 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=2844#comment-14821 AR15Medic, Based on the info given at the beginning of this article, I'd say someone is trying to bridge the gap between the 7.62x39 and the .308 Winchester. Effective range will then, most likely be around 200 yards. AR15Medic,

Based on the info given at the beginning of this article, I’d say someone is trying to bridge the gap between the 7.62×39 and the .308 Winchester.
Effective range will then, most likely be around 200 yards.

]]> By: AR15medic http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/10/14/30-remington-ar-new-cartridge-for-the-ar-15/#comment-14813 AR15medic Mon, 21 Sep 2009 00:06:41 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=2844#comment-14813 Sounds like a good in between round. I happen to love the 300 rem SAUM for large game and 700-800 yards. What is the distance of the new caliber? Sounds like a good in between round. I happen to love the 300 rem SAUM for large game and 700-800 yards. What is the distance of the new caliber?

]]> By: BOB http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/10/14/30-remington-ar-new-cartridge-for-the-ar-15/#comment-12402 BOB Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:20:48 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=2844#comment-12402 the Remington although based on a AR15 is not an assult weapon. In fact the AR15 is not even a assult rifle. refering to it as one simply shows a Fudd mentality. the notion that only true hunters use bolt actions is misplaced. most current bolt actions are a take offs of the mauser action that was its self a military assult weapon of the day. you guys who shot Browning BAR,s, that is designed off of one of the most deadly machine guns ever built. Remingtons attempt to put a sporting round in one of the most commonly used and sold platforms in the country is a good thing. every Military person in the last 40 years has been trained on it. In the event that we are ever involved in a serious war Its a good thing that our youth are already shooting and hunting with a simular platform ahead of time. the AR it likely the number one selling center fire rifel in the USA. thousands of guys hunt with AR,s in several differant caliburs. The 6.5grendal, 6.8SPC, 30 RAR, 450 bushmaster, 458 SOCOM, and the 50 Beowulf all are suited for any deer in the USA. most ARs i have shot that are used for hunting shot 1" groups or better some much better. The new remington has no whistles or bells there is no flash supressor, lasers, bayonet lugs ect. it comes in cammo with a small cap Mag. So it has a pistol grip?? big deal its a hell of a lot easier to hold onto while climping in rocks and steep terrain were you might need to put hand out to grab some thing. Its a attitude that no one should hunt with these that divides gun owners. the statement who wants to hunt with a sniper rifle could just as easly apply to all your scoped bolt actions. I hunt with Bolts, SA,s , Levers, Pumps, Single shots, even a AK pistol. Im a hunter and what gun I use is based on what im hunting and were. Not how I look walking out of the woods usualy sucessfull. its 2009 not 1909 Guns change get over it. pistol grips dont take away from the experiance. If you follow varmit hunting at all you would know that many guys are now shooting AR,s and other SA rifles. it allows you to keep the target aquired after a shot your able to relax and not be on your elbows continuasly. the accuracy of these varmit set ups is as good or better than many bolt actions. My last trip to SD I saw more AR,s than any other gun combined. the new reminton round is better than a 30-30 and is right in the 300 savage range of power. Id like to see a 145 Grain or bigger factory load persoanly. Im not sure that the round will go any were but i comend them for trying. personaly for the money I would go with there AR 10 based offering in 260 remington or 308 winchester. the Remington although based on a AR15 is not an assult weapon. In fact the AR15 is not even a assult rifle. refering to it as one simply shows a Fudd mentality. the notion that only true hunters use bolt actions is misplaced. most current bolt actions are a take offs of the mauser action that was its self a military assult weapon of the day. you guys who shot Browning BAR,s, that is designed off of one of the most deadly machine guns ever built. Remingtons attempt to put a sporting round in one of the most commonly used and sold platforms in the country is a good thing. every Military person in the last 40 years has been trained on it. In the event that we are ever involved in a serious war Its a good thing that our youth are already shooting and hunting with a simular platform ahead of time. the AR it likely the number one selling center fire rifel in the USA. thousands of guys hunt with AR,s in several differant caliburs. The 6.5grendal, 6.8SPC, 30 RAR, 450 bushmaster, 458 SOCOM, and the 50 Beowulf all are suited for any deer in the USA. most ARs i have shot that are used for hunting shot 1″ groups or better some much better. The new remington has no whistles or bells there is no flash supressor, lasers, bayonet lugs ect. it comes in cammo with a small cap Mag. So it has a pistol grip?? big deal its a hell of a lot easier to hold onto while climping in rocks and steep terrain were you might need to put hand out to grab some thing.

Its a attitude that no one should hunt with these that divides gun owners. the statement who wants to hunt with a sniper rifle could just as easly apply to all your scoped bolt actions. I hunt with Bolts, SA,s , Levers, Pumps, Single shots, even a AK pistol. Im a hunter and what gun I use is based on what im hunting and were. Not how I look walking out of the woods usualy sucessfull. its 2009 not 1909 Guns change get over it. pistol grips dont take away from the experiance.

If you follow varmit hunting at all you would know that many guys are now shooting AR,s and other SA rifles. it allows you to keep the target aquired after a shot your able to relax and not be on your elbows continuasly. the accuracy of these varmit set ups is as good or better than many bolt actions. My last trip to SD I saw more AR,s than any other gun combined.

the new reminton round is better than a 30-30 and is right in the 300 savage range of power. Id like to see a 145 Grain or bigger factory load persoanly. Im not sure that the round will go any were but i comend them for trying. personaly for the money I would go with there AR 10 based offering in 260 remington or 308 winchester.

]]> By: crimson30 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/10/14/30-remington-ar-new-cartridge-for-the-ar-15/#comment-10990 crimson30 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 11:50:18 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=2844#comment-10990 260 RAR would be nice... 260 RAR would be nice…

]]> By: Dean http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/10/14/30-remington-ar-new-cartridge-for-the-ar-15/#comment-8977 Dean Sun, 26 Apr 2009 03:53:43 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=2844#comment-8977 Jason, Back in the 1970's, a number of prominent gun writers decided to combine their acquired knowledge and do some research into which caliber was the best for all-around hunting and the conclusion was that 7mm was the winner. In the weights one normally encouters using 7mm ammo, it was shown that (overall) the 7mm caliber yielded the highest ballistic coefficient for the most sectional density. As the caliber got larger, ballistic coefficent was lost, although sectional density increased. As the caliber got smaller, they noticed the opposite to be true. I guess the Spanish had it right all along. ...and again, I ask - who wants to go hunting with an assault rifle? Jason,

Back in the 1970’s, a number of prominent gun writers decided to combine their acquired knowledge and do some research into which caliber was the best for all-around hunting and the conclusion was that 7mm was the winner.
In the weights one normally encouters using 7mm ammo, it was shown that (overall) the 7mm caliber yielded the highest ballistic coefficient for the most sectional density.
As the caliber got larger, ballistic coefficent was lost, although sectional density increased.
As the caliber got smaller, they noticed the opposite to be true.
I guess the Spanish had it right all along.

…and again, I ask – who wants to go hunting with an assault rifle?

]]> By: jason http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/10/14/30-remington-ar-new-cartridge-for-the-ar-15/#comment-8961 jason Fri, 24 Apr 2009 22:17:08 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=2844#comment-8961 i'd have to concur with john. if you get the full weight of remington behind it complete with rifles it'll last a little better. in addition if you necked it down to the 6.5 class or so you'd be able to further reduce recoil but use a much better b/c and s/d class of bullet. i’d have to concur with john. if you get the full weight of remington behind it complete with rifles it’ll last a little better. in addition if you necked it down to the 6.5 class or so you’d be able to further reduce recoil but use a much better b/c and s/d class of bullet.

]]> By: Dean http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/10/14/30-remington-ar-new-cartridge-for-the-ar-15/#comment-6584 Dean Fri, 20 Feb 2009 02:14:03 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=2844#comment-6584 The naming of the cartridge alone appears to be yet another nail in the coffin of one of the great all-time American hunting cartridges - The .30 Remington. As for its hunting capabilities, remember that 150 gr. is about average for a .30 bullet. At 123 gr., its a little on the light side. This means poorer ballistic coefficiency and sectional density. The result? Power alone will proove "accurate enough" out to 100-150 yards, but lighter mass means the round is best suited for thinner skinned, lighter weight game not to exceed the "medium size" class. Blacktail deer, which average around 90-120 lbs., should probably be considered the limit. My question is.....who wants to go hunting with an assault rifle? You're gonna look like a joke, when you come outfitted with all those bells and whistles....and still go home empty handed. The naming of the cartridge alone appears to be yet another nail in the coffin of one of the great all-time American hunting cartridges – The .30 Remington.
As for its hunting capabilities, remember that 150 gr. is about average for a .30 bullet. At 123 gr., its a little on the light side.
This means poorer ballistic coefficiency and sectional density.
The result? Power alone will proove “accurate enough” out to 100-150 yards, but lighter mass means the round is best suited for thinner skinned, lighter weight game not to exceed the “medium size” class.
Blacktail deer, which average around 90-120 lbs., should probably be considered the limit.

My question is…..who wants to go hunting with an assault rifle?
You’re gonna look like a joke, when you come outfitted with all those bells and whistles….and still go home empty handed.

]]> By: jon meddings http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/10/14/30-remington-ar-new-cartridge-for-the-ar-15/#comment-3801 jon meddings Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:57:53 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=2844#comment-3801 what about hunter benchrest class ???? if the shoulder is ackley iimproved then it should meet the ---45,5 grains of water ---(30-30 capacity) this seems like the nice big fat powder stack for precision that hunter is looking for,,, with less recoil and the 308 diameter bullet for punching big holes for score ......so any one thinking of calling pacific tool and die when the remington gets the brass out to us,,, could be like when the 308 winchester came out and mr page made the .243 out of it what about hunter benchrest class ???? if the shoulder is ackley iimproved then it should meet the —45,5 grains of water —(30-30 capacity) this seems like the nice big fat powder stack for precision that hunter is looking for,,, with less recoil and the 308 diameter bullet for punching big holes for score ……so any one thinking of calling pacific tool and die when the remington gets the brass out to us,,, could be like when the 308 winchester came out and mr page made the .243 out of it

]]> By: Joe http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/10/14/30-remington-ar-new-cartridge-for-the-ar-15/#comment-3098 Joe Tue, 14 Oct 2008 14:18:24 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=2844#comment-3098 Hmmm....wonder if there's a possibility of heavier bullet loads such as the 220 and 240 grain projectiles used in the 300 Whisper. There's a Whisper load that produces about 1500 fps with a 200 grain bullet; given the larger case capacity in the 30 RAR - much of which would be devoted to bullet space with a 220 grain bullet - something in the 1600-1800 fps range with a 220 might be pretty handy as a CQB rifle. I suspect, however, this thing - in any loading - might have about the same market penetration as the Whisper, maybe 20-40% more because Remington has the ability to distribute it more widely than Jones did with the Whisper, and if Rem is behind it brass would be available to experiment with. Hmmm….wonder if there’s a possibility of heavier bullet loads such as the 220 and 240 grain projectiles used in the 300 Whisper. There’s a Whisper load that produces about 1500 fps with a 200 grain bullet; given the larger case capacity in the 30 RAR – much of which would be devoted to bullet space with a 220 grain bullet – something in the 1600-1800 fps range with a 220 might be pretty handy as a CQB rifle.

I suspect, however, this thing – in any loading – might have about the same market penetration as the Whisper, maybe 20-40% more because Remington has the ability to distribute it more widely than Jones did with the Whisper, and if Rem is behind it brass would be available to experiment with.

]]> By: JRT http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/10/14/30-remington-ar-new-cartridge-for-the-ar-15/#comment-3089 JRT Tue, 14 Oct 2008 03:31:12 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=2844#comment-3089 I would have rather seen them use resources to support a 6.8×45mm weapon. I can understand going after the Hunting market, but I would rather use my Remington 700 in 270 or my Winchester 30-30 to hunt with, not my AR platform. I would have rather seen them use resources to support a 6.8×45mm weapon. I can understand going after the Hunting market, but I would rather use my Remington 700 in 270 or my Winchester 30-30 to hunt with, not my AR platform.

]]> By: Murdoc http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/10/14/30-remington-ar-new-cartridge-for-the-ar-15/#comment-3088 Murdoc Tue, 14 Oct 2008 02:29:52 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=2844#comment-3088 Absolutely targeting the hunting market. No mention at all was made of any military/LE application. Talk about no need for another intermediate AR round. Unless they unveil a 30RAR rifle tomorrow (tactical day) it's pretty clear this is for deer and such. That doesn't mean no one will try...just that it isn't at all what it is intended for. Absolutely targeting the hunting market. No mention at all was made of any military/LE application. Talk about no need for another intermediate AR round.

Unless they unveil a 30RAR rifle tomorrow (tactical day) it’s pretty clear this is for deer and such.

That doesn’t mean no one will try…just that it isn’t at all what it is intended for.

]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/10/14/30-remington-ar-new-cartridge-for-the-ar-15/#comment-3086 Steve Tue, 14 Oct 2008 01:43:38 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=2844#comment-3086 Acad, I don't think they are going after the military market with this. I think they are aiming for the hunting market. My feeling is that bushmaster would have announced this if it was going to be marketed to the armed forces. Acad, I don’t think they are going after the military market with this. I think they are aiming for the hunting market. My feeling is that bushmaster would have announced this if it was going to be marketed to the armed forces.

]]> By: Acad Ronin http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/10/14/30-remington-ar-new-cartridge-for-the-ar-15/#comment-3085 Acad Ronin Mon, 13 Oct 2008 20:55:30 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=2844#comment-3085 So, how does it compare with the 7.62x39, or for that matter, the 6.8mm, or other proposed alternatives to the 5.56 for the standard service weapon? So, how does it compare with the 7.62×39, or for that matter, the 6.8mm, or other proposed alternatives to the 5.56 for the standard service weapon?

]]> By: jdun http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/10/14/30-remington-ar-new-cartridge-for-the-ar-15/#comment-3083 jdun Mon, 13 Oct 2008 19:45:41 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/?p=2844#comment-3083 Like so many different cartridge in the AR15 platform, this hunting round not going anywhere. As far as I know the most used 30 cal in an AR15 is the 7.62x39. Which isn't a lot if you compare it to AR15 that chamber 22lr or 9mm. Like so many different cartridge in the AR15 platform, this hunting round not going anywhere. As far as I know the most used 30 cal in an AR15 is the 7.62×39. Which isn’t a lot if you compare it to AR15 that chamber 22lr or 9mm.

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