Bullpup M14: “M4 Size, M14 power”
I read about Short Rifle Stock Systems (SRSS) new M14/M1A bullpup stock, the BullDog 762, at Defense Review. I suppose the designers said to themselves “just about about everything has a bullpup conversion, why not the M14?”
The stock comes in a synthetic model (SRSS-1421SM, $749) and an aluminum model (SRSS-1421BA, $999) and is available in Black, Olive Drab, Tan and Aluminum finish.
From the FAQ:
What does the SRSS kit consist of?
The SRSS stock system comes with main beam (stock) panels = Cheek rest and right panel, optics rail and all hardware, allen wrenches to mount scope rail which replaces the M14 /M1A hand guard. Simple tools like a screwdriver is all you need to install your M1A or the M-14 into the SRSS. OPTICS are not included. See our site for Optics available.
Do I need to machine any part of my rifle?
No. You will need to remove the hand guard and install the optics rail and you will need to remove the rear sight assembly, just hang on to it you may want to put it all back together or leave the SRSS together and build another M1A.
Can you describe the trigger action ? I understand that one of the weakness of bullpup stocks is their softness or lack of tactile feedback of the trigger when pulled.
Our trigger was designed to eliminate all the problems that bullpup’s have. The trigger/transfer rod is submerged in the stock and to some degree floats and is carried by the rear/original trigger. The safety is just above the pistol grip for your right hand and can be turned off and on by the right thumb. Our trigger rod adds 1/2 pound to whatever your trigger pressure is on your rifle. It feels like your original two stage trigger.
Later this year or next year SRSS will be offering this stock system for other rifles. My guess is that a Mini-14 model will be offered.
Fitted with the SRSS Mini Paladin Muzzle Brake ($200)
UPDATE: Daniel E. Watters, who is very knowledgeable, points out in the comments that there have been other bullpup stocks for the M14.
More photos after the jump.
1st picture (Courtesy: Different) of the new Gen IV SRSS
http://www.athenswater.com/images/Gen4SRSS.jpg
Now on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/H2Os-Rogue-M14/187738927978269
If you decide to purchase a Rogue chassis stock from JTac’s web site, please mention H2O MAN.
Thanks!
The Rogue chassis from JTac is fine as is… good to go right out of the box.
My Rogue modifications & upgrades reflect my personal wants, needs and quite a bit of experimentation.
I just can’t leave well enough alone and enjoy modifying, enhancing and upgrading what I have.
Once again – my modifications & upgrades are not necessary for the factory Rogue chassis to perform as advertised.
My bullpup M14 conversion continues to evolve…
Configurations that I have tried:
I have used the my Mod 1 type SEI barreled action in this chassis, it has a light weight 18″ barrel.
I have used the my Mod 0 type SEI barreled action in this chassis, it has a sub MOA medium heavy weight 18″ barrel.
* The overall length of any 18.0″ barreled action equipped with a DC Vortex is 28.25″ in this chassis.
I have tried the Magpul AFG, Grip-pod, Tango down and Atlas bipods.
I tried TROY Micro folding battle sights… they are too short for this application.
The 29″ Blackhawk Homeland Security Discreet Case and 7.62mm hook &
loop 3 mag shingle that I purchased separately are perfect.
Optics:
I tried an XR308 from EOTech and a Leupold Mark 4 1.5-5x20mm MR/T with an offset MRDS.
* The offset MRDS is a total waste of time on this chassis, but it is awesome on my SAGE EBRs
Modifications/Changes:
My first modification:
In an effort to improve the feel and usefulness of the factory trigger
pad I used the outline of my M14HDW.US V2 EBR trigger shoe and a file to
reshape the original trigger pad.
I was somewhat successful, but it could be better.
* Soon after I informed the manufacturer that I had modified my trigger
pad they quickly found a reason to initiate product improvement #2 and
lowered the trigger pad… I don’t know if they have rounded off the
sharp bottom edge though because the manufacturer is dragging there feet
about sending me some new replacement trigger pads
* Also, I complied with an earlier request to distributors by the
manufacturer to swap out the rear brackets for new ones to solve some
fitment issues – mine fit fine, but I replaced it and the brackets on
stocks I have in inventory. This was product improvement #1 and it went
smoothly.
The next modifications:
After I addressed the trigger pad I focused my attention on mag changes.
I had a SADLAK tactical mag release installed.
IMHO, this is a must have item for all owners of this chassis…
reaching back and behind the mag body to release the mag is much easier
with the SADLAK part.
I also replaced the original pistol grip with a Magpul MIAD.
I have large hands and the grip change provides me with a bit more room to rock the mags in and out of the receiver.
More changes:
The CQB-16 barreled action that SEI built for me earlier this year is
now in my bullpup M14 chassis. It has a 16.25″ light weight barrel.
* The overall length of any 16.25″ barrel equipped with a DC Vortex or Comp is 27.75″ in this chassis.
Bullpup CQB-16 optics:
I am currently using the following mix of sighting kit.
Magpul MBUS – Gen II, LaRue Tactical LT608, Aimpoint CompC-2X 2MOA, EOTech FTS 3X magnifier – Gen II.
* The MBUS required some work with a file to fit… this was an easy modification.
Stay tuned, this compact blaster is growing on me fast and I have
completed additional modifications plus I’m currently working on more
modifications & upgrades for this chassis.
- H2O MAN
* I own several M14s with SAGE EBRs being my favorite and I understand
that it’s an odd niche that would ever consider converting an M14/M1A
into a bullpup.
Let me know if you fit into that odd niche, maybe I can help.
Rogue accuracy:
I’m not comfortable firing from a bench and that’s probably why one round is pulled way off to the right.
http://www.athenswater.com/images/Rogue-Group.JPG
Featured on Soldier Systems
http://soldiersystems.net/2011/08/25/rogue-m14-bullpup-stock/
Kel-Tec RFB… I’m not really interested in a rifle that nobody makes new mags for.
Brand new CMI/USGI M14 mags are available from many sources.
Then there’s the Kel-Tec RFB in .308 Winchester. A bullpup that spits the empties out the nose, which with its ambi controls makes it equally good for us lefties and you righties. Suppressed and using subsonic frangible ammo, this might be home defense heaven.
Just sayin’…
Rogue M14 Bullpup video ~ Suppressed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UioP2EtnYds&feature=player_embedded
My bullpup chassis will be hand delivered this Sunday… it’s not an SRSS, it’s much better.
I plan to install one of my 18.0″ MK14 actions or possibly my 16.25″ CQB action in a new and improved SRSS when they become available later this year. I’m looking forward to trying it out and comparing it to my SAGE EBRs.
And Mr. Conway: Feel free to ask the thousands of dead insurgents from Fallujah how well their AK-47s protected them against Marines and soldiers with M16s and M4s.
Just to point out-you can shorten a 7.62mm weapons’ barrel all the way to 16 inches and not run into significant loss of velocity.
This is a very interesting article with some very serious comments.
Just so people know TCI-Technical Consultants International Ltd is still producing the M89-SR but is planning to move the manufacturing to Europe next year.
Donald C.A Watson,
Diretor.
If you want to read an analysis of the pros and cons of bullpups and some ideas about how their weaknesses can be addressed, it’s here: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/bullpups.htm
JDUN1911,
Both the SAR-21 and Tavor have designs that prevent injuries in case of a chamber explosion. SAR-21 has an overpressure vent and kevlar cheek plate.
The word infidel mean you do not believe in Christ Jesus. not the other way around. but look it up to make sure. The knights of the crusader were not known as infidals
The power of the M-14 demands it be in service, but the length of it and the weight is what got it replaced in Nam. I think that a GOOD bullpup is the best key to it’s servival.No one wants to face an AK with a M-16 , you need a much robust round to stand your ground {take Beruit}
I love the concept but it still is short in other areas. Pardon the pun.
If any stock system isn’t designed to make the action more accuracy by controlling barrel warping, whipping and rotation.
It must also maintain consistency in the relation ship between the barrel and optic so shot placement is consistent from cold to Hot bore and in Cold and Hot environments.
Absorb Recoil, Harmonics, and create a delay in the felt recoil so you are not moved off target while the bullet is traveling down the barrel.
Allow the placement of rails, studs, sling swivels, fore grips or forward trigger for bull pump style or back for traditional style. Come in multiple colors and camo patterns.
Custom built for those who want with matching painted and nitride Mag’s, any AR buttstock or grip.
Now you’ve got a short version of a SUB MOA shooting M1A with standard GI barrel that you can switch back to traditional adjustable length.
Your AR can’t even do that!
That is the VIRON GEN 5 STOCK FOR THE M1A/M14/SCOUT/SOCOM.
Mini14 version coming soon.
A shorter stock that’s not short on what you really need!
Gentlemen,
I must write about the bull pup ( tilized recently and accurately) as I have used the AK-47 (7 & 5 mm versions), (M-16 field & M-4 salt water versions), (old 45 ca., 9mml, & civilian .38, .357 & 0.40 cal variants), 9 mm UZI, great in the desert and urban all around because from a recreational and probably a known close in/tough environmental adversarial position it is hands down the most manageable weapon. But we must consider the mission. Is it close quarters, AID then a .22 cal shaved or fiberglass round is best. Are we talking a FOF being 3-600M then the M-16/M-4. 2 round burst. In theater op use the adversaries weapon of choice the AK-47/7MM round, remember ~12 inch drop unless close in. Do you want to mimic the regional gendarmes, use their weapon of choice. We are only talking firearms here. you will be lucky if part of a two man team, but trust only your own.
MKD67 & 97retired!!!!!
I now play Golf.
I am not a big fan of the bullpup model guns. If they explode you are not just unfortunate, you are also dead. Anyway there has already been a bullpup M14 it was called an AWC but not from SRSS
I’m sure they had some few KB with those bullpups over they years. I have never seen a gun that is KB! proof.
British, French, and Australians Special Force units use AR and not their standard issued bullpup.
Bullpup aren’t good design. The negatives out weight the positives by a lot.
jdun1911, I don’t think it would be impossible to design a bullpup that would explode sidewards away from the shooter. To name a few the British, Australians and New Zealanders have been using bullpups for quite some time without problems.
God forbid if a Bullpup blows up in your face. The US military will never adopt the bullpup design for that reason alone.
Here is a M16A2 that blew up. The soldier escaped injuries. If this was a bullpup he wouldn’t have a face left.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=395395&page=1
Daniel, thanks for the info. Your input is always appreciated. I have updated the post.
Ahab, I am not sure.
Im not a fan of bullpup designs, so I wont be getting one. Interesting design though, and it would be great if you could actually get a good trigger in one of those.
Bleh. Looks like I would have to remove both the lower rails, but also the upper rails of my SOCOM 2. Granted, it would replace those parts, but at that cost, I will halve it, deal with the longer gun, and get the replacement stock from VLTOR.
There have been bullpup M14 before. There was the AWC G2, which used a special McMillan stock, and a couple from Israel. The latter were the Sirkis M36 and the product improved TCI M89SR.
Are they still 6 months behind on shipping orders?