Type 97 (Chinese semi-auto QBZ-97 bullpup) coming to Canada
Those lucky Canadians will be able to purchase the Norinco Type 97 later this year.
Type 97A. Click to expand.
The Type 97 is the civilian export version of the QBZ-97 rifle, which in turn is the export version of the 5.8x42mm QBZ-95. It is chambered in 5.56x45mm and takes STANAG magazines. Looking at the photo I think it has a 20″ barrel.
According to CanadaAmmo it will be available in December 2008 and will sell for $849.00.
UPDATE: A couple of photos from Dennis. Thanks Dennis
I know this is an older blog but for those who have received their rifle I was wondering what the ability to utilize attachments is like
SEIZURE ALERT:
For the first time in 15 years, the RCMP and Canadian firearms Program are moving to seize firearms from lawfully registered owners.
They have offered no explanation as to why. They have only indicated that the Norinco Type 97 and High Standard Model 10B are now prohibited firearms.
They have instructed the owners to turn them in for destruction to their local police, or try to sell them to a movie armourer, or other business licensed to use prohibited firearms.
see Canadiangunnutz.com for more details
We ask that you contact your MP and Public Safety minister Vic Toews to express your opinion on these seizures.
Bullpups are evil because they can easily be concealed in a “40 gun case, trench coat and you could even put one in a large wooden box……man these things are bad !
Still I do not understand there point, with the proper tools and enough knowledge any semi-auto firearm can be converted to fully auto, regardless of brand or style, does this mean that ever person that owns firearms also converts them to full auto ? I highly doubt it !
How about a knife ? extremely easy to conceal, does not make a sound when used, equally as deadly, maybe we should ban all knifes in Canada, everything from a hunting knife to a butter knife must go ! well we are at it how about a screw driver HHmmmmm…… screw it lets ban anything and everything that could possibly be used as a weapon !
right right ….. this will solve everything…… soon I will start a petition to be passed to the RCMP. it will be titled ” Ban Everything “
Canada Shooting Sports email:
Norinco Type 97 Re-Classification and Confiscation
We are frustrated and disappointed with the latest decision of the RCMP to alter the classification of Norinco Type 97 from non restricted to prohibited. The stated reason for the RCMP’s reclassification was that this model was “too easily converted to full auto” .
We having been working on this file for over a year and our attempts to resolve this issue have included numerous meetings with the Minister’s office some of which at our request included the importers who are caught in the middle of this bureaucratic nightmare.
The CSSA continues to explore all avenues in our attempts to reverse this reclassification, but we have to remember this was an RCMP decision and history has shown they are non responsive to any criticism of their actions, however we all report to someone and in the case of the RCMP that is :
Hon. Vic Toews
Minister of Public Safety
House of Commons
Ottawa, Canada K1A 0A6
FAX: 613-954-5186
Darn right
They will systematically divide us, taking one gun at a time, one class of gun at a time, until we end up with no firearms all.
IMPORTANT T-97 UPDATE:
Approximately 3 years ago, the RCMP issued a FRT number to allow the Norinco T-97 rifles to be imported and sold in Canada. Three years later, these same bureaucrats, have decided to PROHIBIT WITHOUT COMPENSATION these same firearms. To me this is “theft”, and theft is illegal for you or I, but apparently the government can get away with it.
They are revoking the firearms certificates of the T-97′s and giving the owners 30 days to either surrender the firearms or to sell them to a movie company (to make evil baby-killing movies). These legitimate firearms owners have well over $1000 invested in these firearms. This is the same as if the government dipped their fingers into your wallet and stole $1000+ dollars from it. If you or I did this to someone, we would be arrested on the spot.
These firearms were purchased with monies that income taxes were paid on, as well as GST, PST or HST as the case may be.
The T-97 fiasco is only the tip of the iceberg, it WILL NOT end there. What will be next on their agenda? The Mini-14? The M-14, the M-1, SKS, CZ858???
Too bad the left side of my face would jam the ejection port or I’d pick up one of these.
check out the robinson arms xcr $ 2350.00 non – restricted for a while at least
Wow we can now purchase the PS90 (P90) and the FN FS2000 both of these are bullpups, wow so now there are 3 different bullpups we can buy but yet they still have a problem with the T-97, makes you wonder ?
the Tavor and the Sig are big bucks they don’t need to mes with them just the one that the common person can buy. they think they make the laws they do not !!!!!
It’s ” B S ” They had no problem with the Tavor ! WTF is the deal, Leave us alone and give us our friggin guns.
WERE THE POLICE LIE TO THE GOVERNMENT YOU HAVE A POLICE STATE AND WE HAVE NO RIGHTS
What’s going on with the Type-97? I heard it’s classification is “under-review”. God, this country sucks!
have any of you been in touch with your MPs. Seems that the RCMP is telling them that the QBZ is a full auto and that there is a court case so they cannot comment further. Bad when the Cops lie to the Government
Have any of you been in touch with your MPs , it seems that the RCMP has been telling them that the QBZ is full auto and that there is a court case so they cannot comment further . Pretty bad when the cops lie to our Government .
American govn’t should have considered “the ethical implications of their choice” when it betrayed american people and moved 2/3 of all industry out of US.
It is interesting to see the magazine well differences between the 97 and 95 versions of the rifle. You would think there would be more fundamental differences there. Makes you wonder what
Being Chinese myself, I know one of two things that ring true about the Chinese. They jump at any opportunity and distrust foreigners. And just like that you can try this weapon along with numerous other European/US/Russian weapons through a Chinese tour aimed at gun enthusiasts (no pun intended). But at the same time they refuse to let you take a used cartridge or two, touch anything without their permission first and watch you like a hawk.
Whether we like to admit it or not, we are indirectly contributing to an enlargement of their military and global influence by buying their weapons and many other goods. And I for certain do not want them to eclipse the US/EU, like many predict and start influencing the world for their benefit but to the detriment of others.
They view everything as an opportunity regardless of the implications. You need not look at further than Sudan, Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe, DPR Congo, Burma (Myanmar), North Korea and the list goes on. These countries are all provided the bulk of their weapons and training from China. Yet they are all in the news for reasons we prefer did not happen.
I hope no english fluent Norinco employees are reading this blog, they must be rubbing their hands with glee, right about now.
Hopefully I did not come across patronising or offensive. That was not my intention. I simply hope people consider the ethical implications of their choices. It is sometimes not brought to everyones attention. Even though the gun laws seem restrictive. I am appreciative to have been born in a “western” country and as such like paying my taxes each year, knowing that my government does care about what I think. Remember we may not have all of these luxaries in the future if China is able to take more from the ever shrinking global resource pile that we all share.
I paid the full amount for one Type97 in February of this year. I like to ask other buyers to work together to get our rifles released by the RCMP. Should we form a coalition to help ourselves? Please post your comments here.
I just got back from Tenn. going in a gun store there makes you see just how screwed we are up here almost makes me want to move there.
I don’t believe so.
I want one. That simple. I’ve got all sorts of nifty stuff, but I want one of those.
Mind you, with Hussein in DC, what are my chances? Bah!
ok, thanks for the info, one more question, do I need a licence to import picatinny system into Canada?
Wingman,
The rail system is already available for sale in Canada. anyone can buy it.
Thanks anyways.
Are you guys gonna be interested in type 97/97B picatiny tactical rail system if I can get it?
Oh, regarding the M4 carbine vs the Norinco Type 97……I did a tone of reseach into both of these a few months back…hell, alot of guns. I am taking up competitive shooting and just hobby shooting in general.
The M4 Carbine by Norinco is a good gun, as are any newly produced Norinco guns (older ones had quality issues some say, such as the older sks). The only problem is the M4 of any type can not compete with the Type 97 at all, in terms of reliablity. I looked at some USA “stress test” stastics on the M4 and it failed horribly in dust with many stopages. What with its short barell Im sure the accuracy of a long bullpup style barell is much better. The type 97 is also not a copy but a primary production of Norinco, used by the Chinese military. It has great all cliamate reliablity and incorperates more modern technology then the older M16 platform rifles (M4).
Anyway the Norinco M4 may be a good M4 but the Type 97 is a superior choice, imo.
Chris from Canada Ammo says it may be a few YEARS waiting for the type 97…..im in for the long haul. Im paitent!
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 3:40 PM
>Subject: Re: checking in
>
>
>>yes, eventually. it is looking more like court, so could be 2-3
>>years, but who knows at this point.
>>
>>Chris
>>
>>At Monday 11:31 AM 17/08/2009, you wrote:
>>>Any word on the Type 97s?
>>>
>>>
>>>Its not a matter of “if” but “when” right?
>>>
>>>Shannon
>>>
Sorry, but I am not sure where the Type-97 falls into play here ?
lets stay on topic, and maybe try to help figure out how to get or rifles released, as they are sitting with the RCMP collecting dust.
If they were prohibited, they would have been sent back long ago, we need to keep fighting to get our rifles, it sucks waiting, but will all be worth while when your firing off your T-97 !
CHECK REX 84-FEMA it is closer than You think
St. Augustine- An unjust law is not a law at all.
Rationality determines right and wrong actions, not a government influenced by uncountable factors
Unfortunately the governments scheme is much bigger than just de-arming criminals. Look at the gun laws in Britain, Australia and the continuous pressure our own government is exerting on us. We’re trained people with legal classification to own and operate firearms and people who’ve never even shot an airrifle before who use little push and pull issues like gun registration to slide their way into federal power. They’re planning for a future much different than today, and it’s ignorant of us not to see this.
Beyond the whole gun issue for a second, just take a look around at all the problems we have in the world right now. 1) China is the worlds new superpower, 2) USA owes itself to China, 3) Markets have crashed all over the world, and despite the quieting down of news coverage on this crisis, it is still very real, and things aren’t getting that much better. Just look at your investments for proof. They tried fixing the problem with more money that they didn’t have, a very classy and typical act by american politicians, closely followed by canadian politicians. 4) people the earth is getting hotter and hotter as the glaciers both north and south of us are melting more and more. Im not a 1970′s tree hugger but I am a damn smart person who knows a lot about the environment and the shit thats going on behind closed doors. The only thing that keeps this earth from drying out into a complete desert like mars, IS THE GLACIERS! The sun will literally fry us in no time without the glaciers. They don’t even have to melt completely for mayhem to begin, then what, dig caves and live underground? Try telling that to 7 billion people. 5) Peak oil ladies and gents, thats right for atleast a couple years now the amount of oil which we consume has surpassed the amount which we are finding and extracting from the earth. Yup, that means we’ve been on a downward spiral with oil supplies since around 2007. Pretty much 80 percent of our world runs off cheap and toxic oil. So as we can see, our entire system needs a revamp, way to many things are done backwards and irrationally. But you can’t just change a planet’s societal infrastructure overnight. This is something that takes decades, but MOST IMPORTANTLY PEOPLE, the government and many informed people know that such a project cannot be successful without a decreased population on the planet. The earths carrying capacity is way overdue and before the government puts any money and effort into remodeling society completely, they know they must decrease the population.
Something big is coming people, and the only way we can defend ourselves legitimately is with firearms and numbers. The government knows and has known for years that our 2 biggest cards against them is our free will to congregate and share a common interest with our fellow people, and our legal right to own and use firearms. We’re pretty close to a police state people, weather you see it or not. We all know what martial law is, and if not than read up on it yourself. It’s the governments sneaky way to disarm all it’s citizens by force of the military in a national crisis. Well turns out a national crisis isn’t to hard to imagine, especially considering the things i’ve just mentioned. This is just the tip of the iceberg, I could write on for hours about the things they’ve been putting in our food, water, the diseases which have been designed in laboratories and than magically appear in 3rd world countries (swine flu in mexico, aids pandemic in africa, do you really think the g7 nations care about those 3rd world people and what they can offer to them? Like common people wake up and smell the coffee. All I ask is that we be prepared. Have a survival kit made up, have lots of ammunition at bay, have your bolts and actions greased, keep lots of extra canned food, rice, and bulk multi vitamins around. Stop thinking inside the little box we were born into (especially americans, canadians, and the brits). Do you think people were ready for ww1, the holocaust, ww2, the de-colonization of africa/india, vietnam, jfk’s assassination and the list goes on. Only the people who weren’t ignorant saw these things coming, everyone else just lived their american dream and aided the bistander effect. Our own country is only 142 years old, some of our great grandparents were around when it began, just take a look at whats happened since then, we didn’t even have airplanes or cars a little over a hundred years ago, so stop thinking change takes a long time to happen, it can happen in a single explosion, a phone call, or the signing of a federal law enacating martial law aka an obvious police state, were already experiencing an unobvious one.
I sent an e-mail to Van Loan , when do you think he will answer me back haha
Man this waiting is really starting to blow bad !
anyone have any recent updates or herd anything new ?
I am confident that we will get them, it’s just a matter of how long will it be before they are released.
They can’t store them forever !
Please release them and focus on something of importance. like maybe try to stop the smuggling of illegal firearms into Canada, and leave us target shooters / hunters alone. if we stop everything that looks different from coming into the country, oh man we would be in a whole world of trouble.
This Type-97 is new and different from the norm, we should be welcoming it with open arms !
Come on Canada get your priority’s straight.
I think it would only be fair to have someone that is involved with this situation to post on this sight in regards to the Type-97, and the reasons why they are still being held ?
Thanks.
Ink says:
“It is difficult to judge from one anti gun law, but if you look back at the laws that Canadian government introduces over the years, it becomes painfully clear that the goal is not safety, but draining the general public of the fire arms. Sometimes their “safety” laws make no sense whatsoever, unless you approach it with the goal of disarming general public en mass. Why in Switzerland every male MUST have a full auto rifle under his bed, but here government is afraid you and me having a neutered Chinese bullpup!? It is not safety, that is for sure.”
And you’re right. A man or woman with a gun is a citizen, without you are a serf.
I ordered a type 97 from Canadaammo and have been told not to pay (TD bank money transfer) just yet. Are these guns classified non-restricted again? They were NR, then prohibited, then unclassified. Im not sure what they are classified now, and if we will ever get to buy them.
Im eye-balling the “almost” ak 47 at Marstar now…… I will wait but not forever.
Any news anyone?
This will cost CA money if it costs them sales. Personally Id be suing the government for lost revenue if this is the case.
I gave an email to Chris at canada ammo asking about the release date, they said “They can hold them as long as they like. We do not have an ETA, they are not returning our calls. They are trying to stall.” They have tried to find out a release date, but the agency involved is supposedly not answer their calls. I’m frustrated, so I contacted the OFAH (my member organization) and now they are going to get involved. When I find out more I post again.
So… any new news?
McLean’s magazine several issues back had a very interesting article on most dangerous cities in Canada. They did not discuss guns per se, but the pictures attending the articles were very telling. the photos were of the police showing off the fire arms taken away from criminals and the fir arms on display were all prohibited!!! prohibited meaning they can not cross Canadian border under any circumstances!!! so how did criminals got them?! not by passing a safety course and getting PAL! The police desks were full of Kalashnikovs, , silences, uzi type smg with threaded barrels for screwing on the before mention silences, extended magazines (like really really extended – like 50 cm long), short barrel pistols – you name it. But of course the average reader has no clue that all of these are prohibited. So if legally owned guns are taken away, you end up with all the scum armed to the teeth and not with neutered guns were are allowed, but with the real stuff. Anyway… you and I know that but the general public can and WILL be easily misled into passing the laws which will leave the nation at the mercy of murderess, rapists, tyrants, their henchmen and all sorts of evil people who are not happy living normal life, but happy only when other people are crying. I like to read history, and time after time the same thing happen: the government go bad sooner or later, and when they do, the armed criminals are not the problem, but the control of the masses (read control of you and me) is the problem, and guess who gets the job of controlling masses done for tyrants, armed criminals. It is difficult to judge from one anti gun law, but if you look back at the laws that Canadian government introduces over the years, it becomes painfully clear that the goal is not safety, but draining the general public of the fire arms. Sometimes their “safety” laws make no sense whatsoever, unless you approach it with the goal of disarming general public en mass. Why in Switzerland every male MUST have a full auto rifle under his bed, but here government is afraid you and me having a neutered Chinese bullpup!? It is not safety, that is for sure.
Ink, this is why we have to push our Gov’t even more. The more they prohibit, the more people want them. This is a very bad idea for the gov’t. I seriously believe that there is more unregistered in Canada than registered, so you take away Joe Normals rifles and every other legal law abiding citizens rights, and all the illegal guns are still out there. It’s not like criminals buy off the street and then register them right? So what the hell do they think will happen. God damn Liberals need to get there heads out of their asses.
check this out, i guess it is an old news, but still….it feels like it was a dry run for a larger scale operation, because why would they bother the people that wanted to stay. give them warning that if they are in trouble the help will not come and let them stay, but no they needed to be forced!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sm5PC7z79-8
Yesterday night i have learned from a regional representitive for Canadian Shooting Sports Assoc. that there is a big push to prohibit even more models and makes.
speaking about communist infiltrators, you know how it goes: first it is restriction on some firearms, then it is the restriction on acquisition of the new ones, then it is confiscation, and finally it is the mark of the beast if you want to get some food. Mind you they will tell you that it is all for your own safty! Communist..hmm..or do i detect budding horns and faint smell of sulfur?!
Cheers!
OK,OK, you’re right. I’ll throw in…..um…….2 boxes of 5.56mm, a bottle of fresh maple syrop, a touque, and a case of beer. And I agree, there should be no restrictions on any firarms ever made for us, the only thing that should hold us back is the $. Cheers
And, trade me even? You looked at the price tags? 2 for 1, by Humphrey!
Like I said, you guys should be as free as us, and we should revoke every gun law passed since the communist infiltrators started hitting in the ’30s. I’d be totally cool with you guys having all the stuff we have, and both of us having more than we do.
cmblake6, *IF* these rifles make it to our market, I’ll trade you even for a keltec. I could only dream to get the cool stuff you guys can get like a semi auto .50 BMG rifle or a classIII license. The USA has the best weapons manufacturers in the world, but here in Canuckistan, we are very limited to what we can own. Yeah US rifles cost a lot more, but you pay for what you get,but I own a lot of Norinco products and the only difference I find is the exterior finish is usually terrible. Anyway, I wish I could call Clinton and see if I can’t change his mind about Chinese firearms!! You’d think with being neighbors for so long, that our gov could learn something from yours.
urbaneddy, no. That thing is too cool for only y’all to have. I saw it on Stargate Atlantis, in use, and I thought “We must overturn all the silly restrictions on our 2A since 1934″. You too! You are a separate nation, on this continent. You deserve the same freedoms we supposedly enjoy. I mean, after all, you guys get the 97 and we don’t?!?! I’m totally cool with you having the KT, I just want a 97!
Jolly,
Sorry, but there is no way in hell that the BATF or ATF will ever allow a “Norinco” into your country for any reason you can think of. You can thank Clinton for that one(he banned all Chinese firearms). So you should go for the Kel-Tec RFB. It’s the same as the Type 97A except it’s American made, and it’s in .308(drool). Jesus, you can even AK47′s in Bullpups in the US. As I’ve said before, you guys(US) have always had it better than us with firearms, let us have this one!! (LOL)
It took me a good half hour to read through all of you guy’s comments.
Ever since I learned of this rifle, I’ve been doing as much research as I can on it…this is the only hot topic discussions I’ve found on the QBZ 97.
I live a bit down South of you guys, and as soon as ya’ll receive your Norinco Type-97A’s in; I’m placing an order with a broker, along with an ATF form 6, so that I may legally import one into the US.
This Weapon System for me is a toy that I really want.
…Zombies? LOL!
@ T97,
I don’t see how the BC provincial elections affects the RCMP. The RCMP is federal so those matters would have to be dealt with from Ottawa unless I’m mistaken.
You mentioned the Tavor. OMG, how much will that cost?!?! I want one of these 97s, just because it would be weird and unusual. A Tavor would be one hellacious proven battle rifle!
I made a typo–T97A is 5.56mm. sorry1
Hi Guys,
1. BC government is in election. During this period, no big decision will be made and all big decisions will be left to new government. So I do not expect we can get any news in about a month if BC RCMP is under lead of BC government.
2. I am wondering how (BC) government is going to recover the lose sufferred by CanadaAmmo if T97A is declared as prohibited. Once the contract was signed between CanadaAmmo and Norinco, CanadaAmmo probably can not void it and probably can not simply ship it back to China to let Norinco burden the lose. Anyway, Chinese PLA is using 5.8mm caliber T97 and there is no way for PLA to equip themselves with 5.62 mm caliber (semi-auto firing mechinics, magazine slot on receiver and magazine lock system were all modified and different original version). On the other hand, BC cuts its budget significantly due to the downturn of economy, there is no way neither for government to take the lose, although it pre-approved this transaction.
3. Leverarms stopped selling T97 on Mar. 24. That is to say the sell was good until that date. However, I believe most of us here put our orders before that date. So I am wondering if it is fair for the government to restrict us from owning T97 that was purchased before the cut-off date. If I was not unhappy to see Leverarms always pursue unreasonable high profit margin (T97A @ $1160 vs $849, M14s @ $699 vs @ $399, 1911A1 @ $499 vs $329 etc.) I would have already got it. SxxKs!
4. I have been visiting this websit for a long time and it is my first time to put opinion here, although I am not sure if what I understand is right or not. Anyway, I should appreciate all you guys to share your information by this chance, including Dennis regarding M4.
Let’s see what will happen on T97A
but i still want a bullpup
It looks like Magup masada rifle, which is touted to be a truly all around rifle and higly cutomizable rifle that came out in years.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJhPMIVgF6c
I am gonna hang in till the end, but in the mean time I bought a Ruger Mini 14, I picked up a used one for $600, damm good deal. and just waiting for my TMCS stock. I wanted something in semi .223 non-restricted so the MINI 14 works great, have a look on the net there is a Troy Modular chassis system that converts your Mini 14 into a battlefield gun… they look sweet all done up, it accepts all the AR stuff like grip buttstock , etc……… when its all put together it looks very sweet and even better that it’s non-restricted, looks like a futuristic AR… I have a picture of one, here are some links..a few different pics……..
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/1475/mini14troy.jpg
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/4435/trysm14min.jpg
http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/875/trysm14min01.jpg
have a look, the Troy Modular Chassis System goes for $500 U.S.
Fabsports is gonna be getting them I think he’s selling for $600 can.
so for just over a grand you can have a sweet assault rifle non-restricted.
The Chassis is made from Aircraft aluminum, so well worth every penny
I am not sure how many countries are switching to a bullpup type design. I have seen on the net that there are a number of countries, usually within the Chinese sphere of influence, that have adopted the bullpup, in particular, the QBZ95 (T97 to us ) No, these would not be our first rifles. Hang in there. Perhaps they will be released some time.
I thought canadianbeef said it looks good for t97? anyway, it seem like many countries switching to bullpup design. i handled shorter rifles and submachin guns. Ahh, they are sweet. Big diffrence from regular full length military rifles. Are they your first rifles, guys? i already have CZ 58 and russian SKS, so i feel in no rush to give up on t97. cheeres.
gentleman, I have written a blog post about the Norinco M4:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/04/15/chinese-cq-m4-being-sold-in-canada/
urbaneddy, I can post photos if you email them to me. Email address is on the Contact page.
Dennis,
Yeah, I just have a bad feeling the RCMP are going to hold on far longer than I’m willing to wait(obviously). We’ll see what happens. My AR180B-2 is non-restricted and I just put a beautiful Bushnell T-dot on it and it looks great. I got it for $1340 shipped to my door. I’ve got one of the orginal Norinco CQ311 carry handle models and it works flawlessly, typical AR performance.If Steve allows pics from photo bucket, I’ll post some pics. I haven’t given up the 97A, just do see why I should have it paid for when there may not be an official decision for a while. Once I’m settled here in Edmonton, I’ll switch my RPAL to here and pick up one of those M4′s. What’s your review on China’s first carbine AR to Canada? Cheers
Hello urbaneddy. Surprised to see you jumped ship. ( was wondering what that splash was beside me ) I still want a T97A but the chances look too slim. If you used VISA or a charge card of some type, they will credit back to your card directly so don’t wait for a cheque. I was refunded in about one and a half weeks. Don’t expect your $100.00 back though as they can hold onto that till the rifles are either sent back to China or declared officially prohibited ( in which case they might as well send them back ) I asked Steve if there was a forum here for black rifles or more specifically the AR’s and their clones. What did you pay for the AR180B ?
I am just loving my M4. Shoots very well, no problems or hassles. It is restricted though. Is yours? My LAR15 mags. work beautifully in it. I just recieved my goodies from Marstar. Bipod, handle rail, forend rail and a strobe/laser. Talk to you again.
well Dennis, I bailed too. I got an AR180B so all my mags and rounds don’t got to waste. Did you get your refund yet? I’m still waiting for a cheque. I’m going to cash it and put it back on my card to buy something else from him after this sh!t storm clears. I’ll wait to see what he gets in the next while. I still hope the guys and gals hanging in there get there T97′s soon though.
I ordered my M4 through Frontier Arms. I noted that you are T97. How goes the battle to get the T97A. Just curious. I think that if we are going to start talking about the M4 then we should find the appropriate part of this blog to do so as this is meant for T97 people. I sincerely hope they get their rifles. Just because I jumped ship doesn’t mean everyone should follow.
Hi Dennis, can u tell where u ordered the m4 rifle? thanks
Long time reader first time caller. Hopefully great news CBeef. I just checked when I sent my order – July 08. I’m sticking with these guys – they do a great job and I’ve bought a lot of fun things off them. Keep the support going. Final stretch now maybe ?
Well, It’s looking good for the Type-97, I finally got threw to somebody at the RCMP, well they didn’t tell me it was cleared, but he pretty much said if they didn’t want them in Canada they would have already been gone. without saying to much it sounds like we are going to get are rifles, as for when I couldn’t get any sort of date out of him.
hope this helps, I know it sucks I have prepaid for 2 of them myself and have a few friends that are in the same boat, we made a pact to stick it out till it gets resolved, which will be soon hopefully.
Not much being said about the 97A. I assume it is prohibited or the RCMP will sit on it till the year 3000. I just said screw it and got myself an M4 which I ordered and recieved in 4 days flat. I recommend this rifle to anyone who still wants a black rifle. It is, however restricted, but at least I have it. No hassles no problems. A great rifle.
…well any updates?
Just making up another letter to send to Van Loat. Never got a reply from the last one. Sick of these guys!!
Chris has been quiet about this . He doesn’t want to say something, and then have it changed because people will hold him to his word. I would do the same thing. Once he knows something for sure, he will post it, until then, just keep calling and writing the letters. The people demanding money back will be very disappointed when they arrive, but are sold out. All we know right now is that these rifles are still under review and any previous Type97′s(restricted version) that are already here cannot be transfered until the review is finished. I’ve got way to much ammo pressed and accessories purchased to just give up on this rifle.
I’m not sure what they have herd, but the site now says arrival date: spring 2009, so it is looking good by the sounds of it.
It seems that this is like a bit of a “gun buyer support group”. Does anyone know what Canadaammo is currently being told, or does Chris have any comment?
This topic is starting to quiet down. Just as long as we stay loud with our Government………… That’s what matters right now. I’m a little nervous about the line up for refunds though. That’s not good for Canam during this fight. If anything, they should just order something else he has to offer to give him the business. Lets face it, he goes down, who else is willing to bring in these types of toys. KEEP THOSE LETTERS, FAXES, AND EMAILS ROLLING!!!
We have waited this long why bail now ? I can’t see it being that much longer, they are having a lot of pressure put on them cause of these rifles. lets hope things get moving within the next few weeks.
If you are thinking about packing it in, please stick it out if not you will regret it.
Looks like some ppl are bailing.. I’m sticking it out.
Hear. Hear. urbaneddy. Well said. We DO have the right to own and use the Type97A. By the way, Van Coat is the minister in charge of public safety. Thanks for the pep talk urbaneddy!!!!
We need to spread the word more and push the letters to there door step. There is no need for this Bullsh!t. RCMP have way over stepped there boudaries here. I’ve seen lots of different templates that look great and should be sent off right away before Canam’s meeting. Having your refund done now only shows that you don’t really care about the situation enough. Keep your orders queued until the end. We have the right to own Type97A rifles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I sent a letter to Mr. Van Loan regarding the hassle with the Type 97A’s.
on another note, Marstar will also be selling the Type-97A as a non-restricted, this will probably happen late summer.
another reason to believe we will be in good shape with our current orders.
I’m really torn at this point. I’d be using that money to get a Norinco M4, but I’d prefer a T-97 in non-restricted. I have my restricted PAL, but a non-restricted is way more convenient for sure.
I know I can’t be the only one worried about their $ 900. If it does come through, what stops them from reclassifying them in a year and we’re left with 12.5 paperweights or full confiscation.
If it doesn’t come through, when do see our money back?
I still think we have a good chance of getting what we paid for ” a Type-97A non-restricted”
Keep in mind that all those people that bought the Tavor as a non-restricted still own it as a non-restricted……. I think we will be in good shape…..
CFA seems to be more picky when it comes to restricted rifles, and these are not so keep your chin up and all will be well !
It’s not over yet…. The T97A could be a completely different firearm. If anything we are going to be in a good place with C301. Write your MP and ask for details / declare your support.
So people. Looks like we are royally and truly F**ked. They are classifying some restricted rifles ( so far the shorter 97′s ) to prohibited. Does this mean that I shouldn’t be looking at ” any ” rifle that is restricted even though I have a restricted license? I don’t know if I should shit myself or ask for a refund or what. So what’s next. A door to door search for ” illegal ” arms? Guess they’ve got use and the firearms dealers where they want us.
RCMP did not reclassify the VZ58, Marstar still sells them as restricted, they were never prohibs, there next shipment in June will also be restricted.
sorry someone gave you bad info.
Well, it seems that Leverarms’ T97 were reclassified as prohibs according to someone who called CFC. Now whether or not this guy is stiring the pot, we do not know for sure, but it has been known to happen. I personally will not judge or compromise my order based on one persons info. What we do know now for sure, is that the T97′s have been removed from the Leverarms website which is not a good sign. My guess, is that perhaps some components from the ones leverarms had could possible fit some fullauto receiver parts, but hopefully this is not the case for Canam. Looks like we should start praying after all. I am still staying to the end though.
I am starting to get really depressed over the wait for my rifle. So many rumours and crap flying around. Any words of hope out there people. Shit, I just want to shoot and have some fun. I am tired of writing letters and not getting a response. It’s hard to remain positive. Canada Ammo says to hang in there. Fine for them to say, but they have my money already.
As Sh*tty as that sounds, I believe you are right. But I would still recommend those who ordered to hold on to there orders until will know for FACT what is going to happen. I believe Canam is sitting down with them soon to discuss this matter. I’m glad to see that people are expressing there rights on paper and voicing the situation properly, otherwise, we may see the samething happen over and over.
Guys, the RCMP can and will reclassify at will. They did it with marstars vz58s, which were held and reclassed from restricted to prohib.
The same thing could happen with our 97s. These scumbag beaurocrats could do it, and then all canada ammo or marstar can do is appeal it, costing time and money. I am absolutely disgusted at the bs pulled by the rcmp.
When the police start making laws, you live in a police state. I have written my mp and peter van loan as well.
I should have more detailed information next week from my sources and the people I wrote letters to. I am trying to remain positive and I don’t think the RCMP has any options open to them considering that bullpup rifles are already out there. I reminded my MP that it would take an order in council to stop the Type 97A’s and that the new lawmakers are not the RCMP. An order in council would take too much time from the governments schedule as the economy is in trouble. Just a thought.
Sell more guns = more taxes for the government IMHO
I truly believe that the RCMP have nothing and are trying desperatly to find something. I think that when they realized that the 10 round LAR15 mag was legal to use in the T97′s they may have had pause to think about it. Of course there is nothing they can do but stall and hope everyone asks for their money back. That will be a snowy day in hell at least for me. I had a dream last night about being at the range and just rattling through a 10 round clip as fast as I could squeeze them off. The look on the other shooters faces was WTF. I have made sure I have a printed letter to carry with me regarding the legality of the LAR15 magazines just in case there is a duddly-do-right ready to question me. Yes it has happened before with my Mini14 in which I had a 30 round mag ( pinned to 5 ) but the guy next to me was sure I fired more than 5 shots. Can hardly wait to get even with the fellow. I’ll make sure I take the bench on his left side so he is covered in brass. Naw, I am more polite than that:) Most of the time. Hate do gooders. Live and let live.
I think it’s a combination of agencies desperately trying to find a way to disallow the T97′s entry into Canada… CBSA probably looked through everything they had, and found nothing to stop the import… Eureka!… Let the Mounties have at it… so off goes a sample to the inspection lab for some tinkering and fine tooth combing… Now keeping in mind that the RCMP had already inspected and approved the T97 in it’s restricted form (shorter barrel). And there exists a current FRT for the non-restricted longer barrel version… So two things can happen… the RCMP “discovered” something that would re-classify the gun, which would mean that they made errors in 3 earlier inspections and assessments (Compact 97 / restricted and non-restricted barrel lengths). Or, they have nothing, and are bouncing it back to CBSA to look for another void to stuff them in… Hopefully when the two Federal Agencies are done ping-ponging the matter into each others courts, the shipment will be released… Fingers crossed…
The shipment is large. I wonder if they have to check every rifle? whoa that would take awhile. Looked at a mini 30 today just in case. But i’m hanging in till the end aswell!
Just had a reply from CFC/RCMP and they said they needed more info from me personally. I sent everything I had so they can hopefully answer my questions regarding the status of the Type 97A. I have tried to be as diplomatic as possible and hope to get some kind of results.
I just sent off letters to my MP and to the CFC regarding the Type 97A. I await results. Hang in there guys. This rifle can’t stay in limbo forever. lol
What surprises me is if RCMP or whoever are getting these shipments and holding them for 2 months or longer, there must be a massive facility somewhere that is getting bigger and bigger everyday of the week. Since those are government that means you and I are paying for storage facilities.
http://www2.parl.gc.ca/Parlinfo/Compilations/HouseOfCommons/MemberByPostalCode.aspx?Menu=HOC
Look through this site, and has all the info you need. your letter needs to be vague but informative. Ask them to also support bill C301. Keep it calm and sophistacated that way you’ll get the message across in a civilized manner.
I am with you urbaneddy. Can you supply addresses as to where to send the mail. I am sick of having my rights trampled on. They could at least let us know one way or the other what the decision is on the Type 97′s I have money tied up here like a lot of others I am sure. The RCMP should pay for the VISA interest. I just want my rifle and I will go peacefully into the sunset after coyotes. This is turning out to be a political mess.
Today I wrote a letter my local MP and to the safety minister in the house of commons in regards to this unconstitional hold of our goods. There is no reason why they are holding them for so long with no communication to the dealer. I advise that everybody does the same. We can’t go through this everytime something fun comes to our market. OK, a lot showed up at the port, they did there inspection and testing………. No where is the results? If we let them do this without expressing how we feel about it, they’ll keep doing it over and over. I will wait for the Type97 until the bitter(or sweet) end.
I saw some good groupings on CGN with a Type 97 at 75 yards using a 4 MOA red dot. Apparently the 62 grain or higher will increase the accuracy somewhat. I agree with urbaneddy as far as the scope goes. The lower the better. My little Docter reflex sight will be O.K. I hope. Similar to the Burris.
Wolverine has some 63 & 64 g not cheap though compared to 45g
Canam has the PMC ammo back in stock. I got lots of Lapua in 69gn, but never actually seen factory 64 anywhere. American Eagle might have it in 62gn. I loaded 300 rounds of 64gn SP winchesters to test. The Type97 is definetly not what I’ll be hunting varmint with(I’ll stick to my Tikka tactical .223), but I’ll take it out back packing through the fields incase any issues arise. After all, they’re saying because of the rail size, that a scope will not fit well, plus the damn thing sits so high(carry handle). I’ll stick with Burris’ fast fire.
Anyone know where I can purchase the 62 grain bullets I mentioned. I mean the whole cartridge not just the bullets for a reasonable price? I actually have some 45 grain cartridges. I don’t think they would be very accurate as they go like a bat out of hell. ( 3500fps ) Too fast. I know the 55 grains are O.K. and will work. It would be wonderful to find a supplier that sells the actual 5.56 x 45 military rounds. Perfect fit and more oomf.
I concur… definitely not a “Long” range varmint gun… 100-200m should be more than adequate to get the job done, depending on the optics. With respect to barrel length, we’re consistently hitting 6″ steel plates with Diemaco 11″ barrels at 200 meters. The 18.7″ Norinco should be at least capable of that… Rumor also has it the trigger is nicer than the Tavor (which I find a little mushy). If I can get 2-3 minutes out of it, I’ll be more than happy.
Might be worth bringing out for this fall’s deer hunting… load up something in the 62-75 grain range with 1300-1400lbs of punch… Hmmmm….
Order Processed today! Yippee! now the real waiting begins.
The barrel twist is 1:7 In theory the heavier bullet would work better for this amount of twist. Somewhere about 62 grains. The .223cal. works fine supposedly in the Type 97A. I think as far as varmint hunting is concerned, it would be a better choice to use a longer barrel than 18.5″ I still think it would be fun to take the 97A out after coyotes. Heck, with a 10 round magazine, just keep pulling the trigger until you hit what you want. O.K. That’s not the way to hunt but the 97A is meant to push out lots of lead in a short time. I will see what kind of groupings you can get at 100 yards but I wouldn’t suppose it would be too tight.
223 is a fine calibre for varmits, that is what I use but in a longer heavy barrel as it is faster and more accurate so I’m not at all arguing, just not sure this would be the first gun I would pull out for a 500y shot on a small moving target if you know what I mean.
I was curious, do we know how the Norinco rifles shoot at 100 yards? I have a couple of their pistols and they are somewhere in the middle as far as accuracy goes, rather impressive really, do we know what the twist on these are?? The rail attached to the barrel on the second picture looks really great.
Thanks for keeping up the thread guys. We have to maintain a positive attiitude here. I tend to agree with the theory that the size of the shipment could have caused problems, but you know, even 1200 rfles spread out across Canada is a drop in the bucket. Most people will probably never see one on a range. I also agree that if the Tavor’s can make it to market then why not the Type 97′s? The culprits here are not the people at Canada Ammo but the customs and RCMP and whoever is backing them up. My theory is, they can’t hold them up forever. Pretty soon it will be shit or get off the pot.
I wonder why the size of the order bothered CBSA this time, but with previous orders, it wasn’t an issue… I’ll base that on the belief that Canada Ammo has brought in several other shipping containers full of firearms. I bet you can pack a poop load of $99 pistols into a shipping container
With respect to re-classification, the only substantive difference between the ones currently sold by Lever’s (the longer barrel version) is length (and who says size doesn’t matter). And it’s being sold, appropriately so as restricted. If there were something else wrong with the gun – action – operation – converted receivers, etc, they would have been prohibited from entering the country years ago – this wasn’t the case.
Hopefully it sorts itself out soon, and we’ll see delivery begin in short order. In the interim, I’ll use the Tavor to dispatch varmints to a higher plain of existence… And with respect to the .223 being a good varmint caliber, I’ve had no complaints from any of the Yotes or Squeeks over the years…
Reclassification will not happen, The hold up is not the product, it is this size of the product order that is causing the delay issue.
these Type-97 are extreamly close to the size and all around specs of the Tavor, and they had no problem with these being non-restricted, keep in mind the order size for the Tavor’s was less than a quarter the size of the Type-97 order.
Hold in there they will come.
There is no way he sold that many rifles that quickly. I believe his system has stock counting and will not sell unless it is available and the site will say “sold out” under that product. I’ve got passed the excited point and now on to the “gets here when it does I guess”. I’ll only give up if it gets re-classified. They’ve been here a while as restricted, so if anything, that’s what will happen. “scary looking” or not, it’s FRT was approved. Might as well start prohibiting scary looking steak knives. No doubt, after opening the container AND all the crazy shootings in that area, that CBSA was concerned, and we should be grateful we have people dedicated to looking out for our national security, but it’s been reviewed long enough. If they are listening: “PLEASE LET OUR RIFLES GO”