http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=265831601

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Just as a side comment, in the past year I have bought a Remington, Kel-Tec RFB, Savage 10BA all in 308 caliber. I can truly say that the POF is still my favorite rifle. The others have their advantages, but overall if I had to have only one rifle it would be the POF.

Good luck Mike, and keep us posted.

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Guys I have read this whole thread from the beginning (WOW this thread is years old, tonight it is Xmas eve 2011) and I must say, my heart was sinking very quickly at the start. Well it got better as it looks
like POF has worked out the kinks? I hope so. But anyway I have a problem, I live in Kalifornistan in the SF bay area. I really want a P308, like yesterday. I have the funds good to go but again I live in Commieville!! So I must posse to you who can hopefully answer, if I order the P308 upper will a Ca legal lower receiver be acceptable and not hamper the performance of the P308 upper? I want the 16.5″ barrel. Any info is great, any and all recommendations please!!

Thank You for any knowledge you can provide, and merry Christmas to you all!!

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Guys I have read this whole thread from the beginning (WOW this thread is years old, tonight it is Xmas eve 2011) and I must say, my heart was sinking very quickly at the start. Well it got better as it looks
like POF has worked out the kinks? I hope so. But anyway I have a problem, I live in Kalifornistan in the SF bay area. I really want a P308, like yesterday. I have the funds good to go but again I live in Commieville!! So I must posse to you who can hopefully answer, if I order the P308 upper will a Ca legal lower receiver be acceptable and not hamper the performance of the P308 upper? I want the 16.5″ barrel. Any info is great, any and all recommendations please!!

Thank You for any knowledge you can provide, and merry Christmas to you all!!

Mike on the left coast……

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Reading all these stories over past year make me think only one thing: “does anyone at POFs customer service speaks to Management to ensure changes are been made to QA at the production line?”

The same story over and over: “buy the rifle – go to the range – experience FTF or FTE – call the POF – be treated in a pleasant way – receive repaired rifle – no problems at all”

The words like “people who don’t experience the problem just don’t post anywhere” – honestly c’mon guys – how often you’ve heard on the forums that anyone at all had problems with for example Remington R-25, or DPMS (know the same as r25) or JP? I mean if production numbers are nearly identical (rem can be large scale) – if guns would be equally well Qality Checked prior leaving the factory – we’ll hear equal amount of complaints over the forums.

So basically there were enough amount of time to fix the issues… But POF still fixes the past (repair bad guns) and not trying fix the future (fix the reason)

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It’s been a bit of a bumpy road getting here, but POF made it right. None of the repairs cost me a thing(except shipping it to the store I bought it at, my fault). After everything was said and done, I have confidence in my POF as both my primary hunting rifle, and as my SHTF solution.

Dan

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The wait on the POF*USA P308-20-HSR-308-SPR is much longer than that. In fact, I have an online buddy who has been waiting nearly 16 weeks for his and it was purchased directly from Patriot Ordnance Factory in Arizona.

I have recently completed my build, short of having a Thunderbeast 30P-1 suppressor which I hope to purchase this fall. The specs are as follows:

Magpul Precision Rifle Stock
Geissele 2-stage Super Semi-Automatic trigger (2.5lb 1st, 2lb 2nd)
Magpul 7.62 Pmag
Primary Weapons Systems FSC30 compensator
Accu-Shot BT13 monopod
Atlas V8 BT10-LW17 bipod
Falcon Industries Ergo Tactical grip
American Defense Recon mount
NightForce NXS 5.5-22×50 (NP-R2 reticle, zero stop)

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/5773/p1000343z.jpg
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/4899/p1000347r.jpg
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/5779/p1000355e.jpg
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/2093/p1000364f.jpg

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Even shooting my handloads, the rifle hasn’t had any problems. I’ve only been shooting off-the-shelf FMJ’s and my handloads (Hornady “A-Max” ballistic tipped bullets, Winchester brass, Hodgon Varget powder… can’t remember what primers I got…) and I’ve only gone through maybe 50 rounds, so this doesn’t really say much regarding the reliability issues. However, I was previously encountering multiple FTF’s every time I took the rifle out, and haven’t had any yet… so TECHNICALLY it’s already doing “better” than it was before, for what that’s worth.

The rifle remains very accurate, and is a joy to shoot. If I had enough ammo I’d shoot it all day. When I miss, I can tell I did something wrong, like pulled to hard or flinched or anticipated, etc, and when I do everything right it’s right on target. The rifle was very accurate before I sent it in, though; the problem was the feeding issue. Only time and more shooting will tell! I’ll give a quick update at about the 200-250 round marker (not including the rounds I fired before I sent it in).

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I contacted POF via email, and they arranged to have UPS pick up my rifle fairly quickly. About 30 days later I got it back via UPS. POF had replaced the bolt, “extended” the feed ramp into the chamber slightly (maybe 1/8″) by smoothing out the area where the ramp and the chamber meet, and polished the ramp and chamber. Best of all, the only thing that I actually paid for was the box and packing materials I put the rifle in, which came to about $7. POF offered to reimburse me for the shipping/packing costs if I send in the receipt, but I kinda forgot and the $7 wasn’t really worth the trouble, anyway. All in all, I was very happy with their customer service and warranty, my only two complaints being that they didn’t notify me when they shipped the rifle back (I only found out when the UPS deliverer left a “1st attempt” note on my door), and they didn’t clean the rifle after testing it. The cleaning isn’t a HUGE deal, it just irked me a bit. As a former Marine, I compulsively keep my guns clean at all times, and I berate my friends when I see that they haven’t cleaned theirs

Regarding the repairs, I haven’t taken the rifle out yet to try it. It looks like they put a few mags through it before they sent it back, which gives me high hopes that it should work fine, but we’ll see. I’ll post again once I have a verdict.

I haven’t really posted about the accuracy before, but I should mention that even when I was having feeding problems the rifle seemed very accurate. I have the 16″ barrel version, and when some friends and I were just shooting for fun from the bench (with a bipod) I hit about 1″ to 1.5″ MOA @ 100yds fairly consistently, and we were using cheap Wolf ammo and not really trying for accuracy. I feel pretty confidant that if I get some nicer ammo and put my mind to it, I might be able to get close to that .5″ MOA mark. Again, though, we’ll see. Like Sgt Blaney said in his post before mine, if I can’t shoot it more accurately then it’s probably my fault, not the rifle’s, at this point. I’ll probably head out again before the end of the month and post the results.

-Ryan

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I am very pleased to hear that everything has been going well on the P-308 front. I will admit when I first found this page I was starting to wonder about the “wonder rifle” I am telling all my buddies about. However as we have all seen it seems that the issues have been hammered out. I for one plan on purchasing one when I return home from my little jaunt with the Army here in Africa.

I plan on dropping some hard earned cash on the 6×48 Trijicon ACOG, and seeing how well the platform will do at engaging “targets” out around 600 yds. It upsets me how people will “bash” another brand or company just because they are fans of another. For example Ford/Chevy/Dodge. I also get really upset when people say that a weapon is crap because “it” (the weapon) can’t shoot a sub MOA.

The reality is, it is the shooter the entire time. If you haven’t mastered iron sights, you have no business in the next level. My dad refused to let me use any weapon system we had with optics until I had mastered my little .22 long rifle with iron sights. Pissed me off to no end… especially when we went on father son shoots on Post, however in the long run it payed off and I now shoot 40/40 on the Army weapons qual.

I would also like to address the ammunition problem. I have encountered some terrible looking ammo that really, should have never ever been issued out to anyone…and it has worked fine in my M-4s, M-9s, 240′s, and 249′s. Surprisingly enough though all the “Ma Duce” ammo was nice and shiny . That says something for the “mass produced” Mil spec ammo that is issued out to the military. I may just be lucky but I would like to say I love the comment about the American, making the ammunition for Americans, at an American plant, in America.

That all being said I have rambled on for far to long now, I envy those of you who have your POFs and get to shoot them when you can. Enjoy them and please continue to post some range stories on here for the others and I to read.

God Bless,
SGT Blaney

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Eggers,
the 11bravo is a dead give away to us old Army guys. I want you to know that I appreciate your service to our Country. Because of brave young men like you the rest of us can enjoy the good life here in the states. May God bless you and keep you safe.

Kindest regards,

Joe

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Thanks for the info, I appreciate it. I’ll definitely take it into consideration when selecting ammo in the future.

By all means, I feel my POF in .308 is superior to my M-16 in almost every way… if only it didn’t keep failing to feed (although I’m working on getting this problem sorted out).

I wish your son-in-law well over there, and I hope he comes home safely.

Ryan

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“You referenced permanent “damage” being done to the rifle by the cheaper ammo several times in your post, but could you be more specific? What kind of damage are your referring to? The barrel?”

First of all let me say that that I did not say “permanent” damage. The damage you may have done to your POF is likely to be minor and easy to fix. The extractor is probably the thing that brakes first when using cheap ammo. To replace an extractor it takes a few minutes and a few dollars. So don’t sweat too much over it. The barrel is unlikely to be affected.

In general, the more insidious thing to worry is the effect that the brown/lacquer finished ammo has on all the internal parts of the rifle. It is cumulative and nearly impossible to clean. Additionally, the kinds of problems associated with cheap ammo, made in Communist bloc countries, is their accuracy or lack of it. They have old machines that our manufacturers sell off when they are deemed too expensive to maintain. Because they are worn out it is hard to calibrate them properly and for the calibration to stick. So you get more inaccurate products. Whether it is a brass case, a bullet jacket, gun powder accuracy matters and lack of it has an immediate effect and a long term effect on your rifle. I’m still talking in general terms here.

“If a handful of milsurp rounds can ruin the rifle, then do you really think it’s worth two and a half grand?”

Accuracy is expensive because of the law of diminishing returns. With each increment of improvement costs escalate exponentially.

“I have a hard time understanding how a rifle that’s touted as having “ultimate reliability” could be permanently ruined by doing exactly what it was made to do. My M-16 never had accuracy issues and the ammo I used they was by far crappier.”

“Ultimate reliability” is a marketing term has nothing to do with real world. Have you seen those Fidelity commercials about the green line appearing for their customers? Have you seen any green lines anywhere? Do you think anybody asks themselves “I just signed up with Fidelity and I didn’t get a green line”? I just got ripped off. It’s concept marketing.

“I understand that, ideally, you should use the nicest ammo possible for any firearm you shoot, but it was also my understanding that this particular rifle was made to eat up anything, under any circumstances (or at least that’s how it’s advertised). “

Most people know that there is no such thing as a free lunch or the tooth fairy. Your POF has eaten everything that you’ve put in it, so far, just as advertised. But there are long term consequences and at some point they will begin surfacing.

You can spin your tires with no immediate impact, but few people would expect to get the same life time of use afterwards. And the more you do it the shorter the life span. It’s the same if you do it with Michelin or some no name tire.

“I like to shoot a lot, but, quite frankly, I can’t afford to spend $1.25 a shot, especially when I can get Wolf ammo for about $0.40 a shot. *sigh* “

Boy I can understand that. I love to shoot, I would do it once a week if I could, but I can’t because it’s expensive. I shoot about 150 to 200 rounds of 308 and a couple hundred 9mm rounds every time I go to the range, about once a month. I would also like to buy the Wolf, Brown Bear, etc… have a good time and let tomorrow take care of itself, but I learned about delayed gratification long ago. It’s just a personal thing, I like to buy good rifle take good care of them so I can use them for a long time. When I was young I didn’t feel that way. My son has a sign by his bathroom mirror that says “You have to be young and stupid before you can be old and wise”. I guess I’m just older than you.

“Again, I’m not arguing the point that you should use better ammo, but you make it sound like I’m going to destroy my weapon by using decent milsurp ammo, and I just don’t understand how a P-308 could be inferior to my beat-to-hell M-16 in that manner.”

What I believe is that American military ammo is a lot better quality then most people give it credit for. After all it is made by American, for Americans on American equipment owned and operated by the American government. I know they also buy from commercial manufacturers, but not foreign ones.

Your POF is not inferior to your M-16 on the contrary it is far superior. You have to remember that most of the time the military buys from the lowest bidder that meets the specs. My son in law, who is leaving for a second tour from Fort Hood to go to Iraq on February 11, said that he’d love to have the POF simply because when they took cover behind the mud walls and buildings in Iraq they discovered that his M-4 rounds would not penetrate the walls, but the AK-47 would. How would you like to be in that situation? Do you still think your POF is inferior?

Kindest regards,
Joe Regina

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I actually did get into reloading (for the cost!), but right now I only do it for .45 ACP, and haven’t made any actual rifle rounds yet. I shoot handguns a lot more than rifles, so I just haven’t gotten around to buying a set of .308 dies.

You referenced permanent “damage” being done to the rifle by the cheaper ammo several times in your post, but could you be more specific? What kind of damage are your referring to? The barrel? If a handful of milsurp rounds can ruin the rifle, then do you really think it’s worth two and a half grand? I’ll be upfront with you and say that I’m fairly new to rifle ownership, and my previous familiarity was primarily through my service rifle. I’m a good shot, but I make no claims to know all of the mechanics of the rifle outside the basics. That being said, though, I have a hard time understanding how a rifle that’s touted as having “ultimate reliability” could be permanently ruined by doing exactly what it was made to do. My M-16 never had accuracy issues and the ammo I used they was by far crappier.

I understand that, ideally, you should use the nicest ammo possible for any firearm you shoot, but it was also my understanding that this particular rifle was made to eat up anything, under any circumstances (or at least that’s how it’s advertised). If it’s not a rifle that can be used with cheap ammo… then that’s not really reliable in my book. Maybe you’re right, maybe I should get an AK, but this rifle was presented as the best of both worlds–a reliable piston system with the accuracy of an AR platform–and that’s why I got it.

I like to shoot a lot, but, quite frankly, I can’t afford to spend $1.25 a shot, especially when I can get Wolf ammo for about $0.40 a shot. *sigh* Even if I start reloading my own rounds I can’t really beat that price. Although I admit it is much more fun to make and use your own rounds.

Again, I’m not arguing the point that you should use better ammo, but you make it sound like I’m going to destroy my weapon by using decent milsurp ammo, and I just don’t understand how a P-308 could be inferior to my beat-to-hell M-16 in that manner.

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