POF-USA P-308

The POF-USA P-308 is a interesting rifle. It is a gas piston operated rifle, based on the AR-10/AR-15 design and requires no lubrication.

2007-08-26 Fd2
14.5″ version

They achieve this by plating the upper receiver with silicon nickel and chroming and heat treating the bolt and carrier.

M.R.R. Full Lenght(C)
Upper receiver

Here is a video of it in action

In spite of its name, it is chambered in 7.62X51mm, not .308 (yes, there is a difference).

More info at POF-USA and Defense Review.



Steve Johnson

Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.


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  • Dennis

    What ammo have you fired in the P-308? I spoke to POF and they tell me the P-308 has NATO reamers. Based on my calculations it will not fire .308, yet POF, over the phone, says it will.

    What is reality?

  • There is a difference between the rounds (pressure), but generally you can fit .308 rounds in a 7.62×51 chamber. If they say it can handle .308 then I am sure it can.

  • I’m impressed with this rifle’s reliabilty ratings, but wonder why I can’t find MOA specs.

    Is anyone able to comment od accuracy?

  • Bryan

    There was a great review done by Defense Review. They stated that with the 16-inch barrel they were able to achieve sub-half minute-of-angle groups out of the box with no break in. Here is the article.

    http://www.pof-usa.com/articles/GW_POF-USA_P308_%5B1%5D.pdf

  • Wade

    Here’s a POF P308 range report of sorts: I purchased my brand new P308 SPR with 20in. barrel, about a year ago but due to travel and work could not get a chance to shoot it until last summer. Grrr. While waiting I mounted a new Horus Vision 5-20x scope on ARMS throw lever rings and stocked up on match grade .308 from Black Hills, Federal Gold, and Winchester. All were high-end match loads with 168 grain match bullets with the exception of one 175 grain match load. After getting the set-up zeroed I settled down for some careful accuracy testing. I was quite disappointed as the rifle would not be consistent. The best I could do was one or two slightly sub 2 inch groups while most were larger and some went as wide as 6 inches! Now I can definitely shoot MOA with a rifle and ammo that are up to it, and I was definitely taking my time and feeling comfortable during the two range sessions I spent with the gun I should also note that I was following good break-n procedure and cleaning the bore often. During zeroing I carefully scrubbed the bore between each shot fired. And afterwards I did so between each test group. There is one important caveat here and that is that I knew the rifle to have a flaw when I shot it. Before I had a chance to shot the weapon, while I was fondling it one day I noticed that the piston gas block mounted on the barrel right where it emerges from the rail system appeared to rotated maybe five degrees clockwise when looking down the business end of the bore. Now, the way this rifle comes from the factory there is very little clearance between the outside surfaces of the gas block and the inside surfaces of the rail system that surrounds it. Far too little as far as I can see. On my rifle the combination of the tight fit and the misalignment causes the gas block to actually TOUCH the inside of the Predator handguard/rail system. I verified this by attempting to slide a piece of paper between them. No-go. This point of contact no doubt compromises the free-floating of the barrel, and at the worst possible point. My guess is that this probably had much to do with the lack of consistent accuracy that I experienced. I’ve contacted Chris at POF and he invited me ship the upper back to them to hopefully have it corrected. I’m disappointed, to say the least. A year’s wait, all that money spent on a high-end rifle, and it shoots like an old SKS! I hope to have better things to say about it when I get it back and have a chance to re-test it. Stay tuned. Anyone else have any P308 experiences to share, especially with a 20 inch barrel? I could use some encouragement but we want to hear it all, good or bad.

    • Wade, that is some bad luck 🙁 Have you shipped it back yet? Please let us know how it functions with the replacement/repaired upper

  • Wade

    Will do Steve. Just another thing to do when I’d rather be shooting it. I’m hoping that with the mad rush to keep up with the crazy demand going on right now that I don’t get left in the dust. We’ll see if POF’s customer service is as good as their reputation for quality.

  • rotortuner

    I bought a P308 last November and just got around to shooting it in the last couple weeks. I put a leupold mark 4 4-16 on it. good rings, harris bipod etc. I was pretty impressed with the workmanship on the rifle. I did the clean one fire one break in procedure for the first 20 rounds. I didn’t even look at the groups since i wasn’t using match grade ammo. Then i picked up some of the blackhills 168 match and some of the federal gold match and headed out. Needless to say I got it somewhat zeroed and then tried for groups. I would get about 2 shots sub moa then one would fly 3 or 4 inches out. tried different ammo same story. Then i shot a friend rem 700 that is a .25 moa gun and i shot around .3-.4 or so. I let my friend try the pof and he had the same issue, one or two good shots then a flyer that would be inches out. I came home tonight and was looking it all over and noticed that the gas black was touch the inside of the rail. I thought it was odd when my scope needed a 25 moa right adjustment when I moved it onto the this rifle! So then i come on here and read the above post by wade. same issue as what i found and seams like this is probably my culprate as well. I was really starting to get frustrated, since i spent about $80 on ammo and the gun was very expensive. needless to say, tomorrow POF is getting a call. Hopefully they can gut it straightened out and it will return a sub moa gun.

  • I just got back from the range for the second time with my 16″ 308 POF and had the same results. I shot one group of just under 2″ once, everything else was hit or miss. It wasn’t consistent at all. I shot better groups with my 16″ para tactical FAL that day with a 80 dollar Chinese scope. I am disappointed with this rifle to say the least. I don’t know what to do.

    • Ron, at what range did you get the 2″ group?

  • Pure Zero

    Hey guys, I recently spent huge bucks on a POF P-308 and had a very disappointing experience the 1st time out. I had major feed and extraction problems. Tried 5 different kinds of ammo and got similar results. Many would either not seat in the camber completely, causing the bolt to fail to go completely into battery (forward assist was no help), or if fully seated and fired, some cases would not extract. Had to force the extraction by hooking the charging handle on the shooting bench edge and bumping the butt stock with my hip! Those rounds, and the few that did eject automatically, had quite visible “ripping” marks from the extractor on the case rim. Also noticed a somewhat triangular shaped burnish mark left about 1/2 way up the side of the brass cases that had been chambered. Never got to check accuracy as I was too busy trying to figure out the malfunctioning problem. You think I have a improperly sized chamber? A headspace problem maybe?

  • pure zero, while it could be a headspace issue, the more common cause is a “dry” bolt. Is it possible that you cleaned it and got bore solvent in the action? If so, completely lube moving parts with a high quality metal sealer. Tetra grease is a good example. You don’t want gobs of grease. Grease it, buff it, grease it again, and buff it again. This seals the pores in the metal. The bolt should then ride like silk, and have sufficient movement to retract fully, and pick up the next cartridge.

  • dstewart

    Most of you seem to know quite a bit more about this rifle than I do. A very generic question from the novice; Do you think reloaded ammo will cycle through cleanly? Not just for the POF but others of the AR-10 type.

  • Pure Zero

    Thanks response-guy – I appreciate your input. I didn’t use any solvent at all. Gun was brand new. I agree with your recommendation on lube, and that’s pretty much what I do with my (non-POF) AR-15. It runs flawlessly. The interesting thing about the POF uppers is they have a “Silicone Nickel” plating treatment and their claim is you can run their gas piston systems with no lube at all. Well, I will admit that the thought of that freaked me out a bit, so I did apply a very light gun oil to the bolt and carrier before I headed for the range. The chrome plated bolt and carrier in this gun are ultra smooth in movement. “Like silk” is a good description. My problem is with chambering and extraction. Rounds seem to strip off the magazine just fine so I think the bolt must be moving back freely.

    dstewart – I have had good luck with quality reloads in my AR-15. No reason why they would not work in AR-10 types. The key is making sure you are using reloads built to the proper specifications. There are a lot of variables. Most serious target shooters use nothing but reloads.

  • Wade

    PUREZERO, Ditty what dstewert said. Though reloading is not a black art, there is a considerable amount of science to it. If it’s done carelessly or without proper knowledge, the results can be frustrating or tragic. I’ve seen reloaded rounds with primers poking out too far that made them slam fire as soon as the bolt seated. Very dangerous. I’ve seen improper lubrication used that turned entire batches into duds, and I know a fellow who loaded rounds way too hot and turned his nice new weapon into a hand grenade. Fortunately he didn’t get hurt. When it’s done right, reloaded ammo can be customized for a particular weapon, often allowing it to hit harder and/or achieve better accuracty. For a weapon like the P308 I think I’d skick with high quality factory (match grade) ammo unless you have some time on your hands and want to save some money. If so, do yourself a favo and take the time to learn how to do it right and also research and carry out proper “load development.” If you comb the forums you might just luck out and find someone who could tell you the ideal formual for your rilfe.

  • Pure Zero

    All great points, Wade. The physics of what’s going on inside chamber and barrel when modern day ammo is fired is almost mind boggling. One must really know what they are about, do their homework, and work up hand loads – load development – carefully and methodically. If I could afford it I would be very content to use only factory match grade ammo.

    BTW Wade, have you heard anything from POF on your P308? How about rotortuner and Ron P.? Any new developments with your POF rifles? You guys are the ones who inspired me to tell “my story” here.

  • Ron Paquette

    Well after writing the comment about my less than satisfactory experience with my 16″ POF I called Chris at POF and he said that they stand behind their Rifles and to send it in and they would make it right. So I boxed it up and sent it back with a letter explaining what ammo I used and how I used the bore snake in between rounds. I also said in the letter that I was really wanting a 20″ at the time that I bought my rifle and hat if he wanted to change out the 16 for a 20 that I would be willing to pay any fee that he thought would be appropriate. So 10 days later I got a email telling me that my rifle with a new 20″ upper was on the way, no charge. The happy ending is that I now shoot 3/8″ groups with federal gold match 168gr ammo. Its a great rifle and I now feel that it was worth the money. I am really impressed with the service I got from POF and Chris. Oh BTW I ve been shooting 100 yards.

  • MARK

    You all seem to know your stuff. I spent a lot of bucks on my POF-USA P415 and have had problems every time out with the hex nut backing out of the piston tube. Chris@POF has stood behind the product and sent me a new upper, however first time out, this one has the same problem. Its not like you can just snug up the hex nut. To get to it you have to remove the rail system. Is anyone else having this problem?

  • Shawn

    just ordered a p308 in feb and im hoping all the problems are worked out buy the time i get it. ron p ur thread is really the only thing keeping me from canceling my order i havent been having good luck with customer service, (problems getting ahold of people) i hope the product is worth the wait ive been doin quite a bit of digging on pof and have found quite a mix of experiences, i hope mine goes well i will have to post when i recieve mine.

  • mrushing76

    This sounds real familiar to me. I waited over 7 months for my 14.5″ P308 to come and had serious problems. At first it wasn’t loading the rounds out of the mag (first two rounds), then the it wouldn’t eject the rounds leaving them stuck in the barrel. I had to use a fiberglass rods to drive the casings out. I wasn’t shooting crap ammo (308 Win Fiocchi 150gr FMJ). I’m going to have my dealer send it back to get it fixed (I’ve got faith that POF will make things right). Now I read the comments above about the P308 being a 7.62 Nato and not a true 308 Win and needing to use ultra expensive match ammo to function properly…I have 2 problems with this. (1) bought 1500 rounds of ammo in 308 in anticipation of this rifle, because the rifle is advertised as a 308. (2) I read articles about this rifle and about how spectacular it was and that the military is very interested in it. If this is so, the military isn’t going to be shooting match grade ammo. This rifle should be able to function with any surplus ammo. Out of all the AR’s I own, I bought this to be the one rifle I grab with the “sh*t hits the fan” and I hope it get fixed and I can trust it to be reliable.

  • mrushing76

    My dealer friend took it to the range and tried several different ammos in 308 and 7.62 and only had one episode of a round not being picked up out of the mag. I’ll get it back this week and try it again for myself.

  • jkaplan

    pure zero interesting reading your post. i’ve been having the same problems. i have .308 with the 16″ barrel. i got off of gunbroker auction sold by heritage firearms in texas as new. ive been to the range 3 times now. all a huge dissapointments. i sold my loaded M1A springfield to get this and have had nothing but problems. chris at pof was big help and said to ship upper to him. did that, got it back and still has the same problems. cant figure it out. im going to send whole gun back to them and hopefully figure out the problem. it keeps jamming. wont cycle at all. thought it was the magazine as CA can only have 10 rounders and have to use dpms clip. anyway will keep updated and keep ready posts here.

  • mrushing76

    Update: My dealer/friend took it to the range with 4 different brands of ammo and both sizes (308 and 7.62) and only had one mishap of the round not getting picked up from the mag. Once I got it back I put 20 through it without a problem. Seems to be fine now. I think it maybe due to tight tolerances and just needs some rounds through it. I’ve also heard that eventhough it states no oil needed, many add a little oil.

  • Gaidin43

    I ordered my POF 308 16″ back in November, 2008 and after having the order “misplaced” and a lot of follow up emails with Chris, it is coming in this week (August 2009). I have been nothing but impressed with the customer service they have given me to straighten this issue out. I will let you know how if fires when I get it to the range.

    Also, I have been around some groups in the military that are looking to make this their standard carry weapon, replacing the M-4’s and variety of other weapons they carry now. The SR-25 is still on the top for other applications, but this one is being considered for Main Battle Rifle by the Marine Corps as well.

  • Gaidin43

    http://www.snipercentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13935

    Good range report with pictures (100m, 200m, 500m) 16.5″ 308 POF

  • Shawn

    Great post gaidin43 can’t wait to get mine, already bought some federal gold match 168 bthp and some black hills 168 bthp cant wait to see how it shoots.

  • Richard

    Waited 6 months for POF 20″ through a dealer, then found one on Gunbroker. On initial cleaning I found severe fouling in the gas system and RUST on the gas piston. POF replaced the piston free in two days, but I thought it was CROS (corrosion resistant operating system)? Then at the range with 4 types of ammo (NATO 147gr, Win 147gr, Win 168gr Match, and Hor 168gr TAP) I got dismal accuarcy. Best group of 2.5 MOA w/ the TAP, worst of 6 MOA with the NATO 147gr. Had a friend with me who is a Highpower Match shooter and also had his HBAR AR with him. He had the same results with my rifle, and we both were able to get .75 MOA with his AR. After 70 rds I separated the upper and lower receivers and noticed silver metal flakes in the action. Appears the charging handle and bolt carrier where making contact somewhere during the firing cycle. I also found that several of the Hor TAP rds had punctured primers. Sent the upper back to POF yesterday. I’ll give them one chance to fix it…if no joy I will go with the Rem 700P. Pretty disappointing to pay $2500 for a top-end rifle and then have quality control issues, but it seems a lot of other people have had the same experience.

  • Dan

    I recently purchased a p-308 16″ and had major problems with the weapon. Individually, rounds fired true, but after extraction, the rifle refused to chamber a second round. When I manually racked a round using the charging handle, sometimes a round would chamber, other times it would just mark up the round in the magazine. I ended up shipping it back to the store I bought it at for repair. I expected more from a well known, ‘high-end’ weaponsmith like pof-usa. I’ll re-post when I get it back, but so far I’d say POF has some quality control issues.

    Dan

  • Gaidin43

    Still waiting on my rifle, the rails and bolts are not completed yet. Chris has been updating me on the status, but still taking a long time. Hopefully, with this extra time they are putting into production they will have worked out all these issues people are experiencing. Even so, the system is still the next step in AR’s and military rifles.

  • Dennis

    Received my long awaited P-308 with 20″ barrel on 14-Aug. Took it to the range the next day. Put 5 rounds through it, it would chamber the first round with no problem but would not extract it after firing. The extractor would either cut the brass or dent it real bad, either way the casing was still in the barrel. I have sent it to POF for repair. I am trying to have positive thoughts… after a 51 week wait for the rifle I really want this to produce sub MOA.

    Dennis

  • Dan

    It sounds like Patriot Ordnance Factory is having quality control problems. I’ve now spoken with five people with similar malfunctions. What’s up with POF 2009?

  • jkaplan

    quality control indeed. really interesting to hear the same exact problems are happening all around. Now that they exchange out the “out of spec” bolt it works great. they did turn it around fast.

  • Dennis

    My upper arrived yesterday (Friday). I went shooting today. What a difference, I was able to shoot 1 inch groups at 100 yds. NO feed issues at all. I hate that I had problems but am very impressed on the quick turn round and accuracy now that it is repaired. I would recommend the the P-308. Chris at POF was great to work with.

    Dennis

  • Bought a p308 16″ barrel. Broke it in properly. After 80 rounds, started getting problems. The empty casing was getting caught by the bolt carrier in the ejection port. Would get thirty or forty rounds through it, then a failure to eject agin. Spoke with Chris at pof, sent back the upper, and anxiously awaiting it’s return. Hoping to get the same reliability as I’ve had with my m1a and hk91. The pof is a lighter weight rifle. Is an issue when hiking distances in mountainess terrain.

  • Dan

    Kudos to POF for their Customer service. After receiving my rifle, POF had it on it’s way back home in less then a week! Got it back in great condition, took it to the range, and WHOA!!! I LOVE MY POF 16″!!!!! With a Millet TRS-1 scope mounted, I was threading a needle at 600M. 5 shots = 1’5 inch diameter groups. Recoil is not at all what I’d expect from a .308. I was chomping at the bit after my first failed range trip, so I put about 280 rounds down range, and it ran them like butter.

    Dan is greatly pleased with this new development.

    Chris @ POF: If you’re listening: Thank you for the great customer service!

    Dan S.(the “I should have sent it directly to you, but instead sent it to the shop I bought it at” guy)

  • Silas

    Reading this thread has been very educational. My thanks to all who have contributed to date.

    I’m planning to purchase my first AR type rifle and I’ve more-or-less settled on the POF P-308. I’m left-handed and left eye dominant, so I really appreciate the ambidextrous controls, especially the bolt release.

    One thing I have not been able to track down (at least not yet) is any technical data that compares the 16″ “RECON” barrel to the 20″ “SPR” barrel. At what range does the 20″ barrel make a practical difference?

    Silas

  • Nicolas

    I am considering purchasing a pof 308 16″ barrell. With all the comments I am reading am a bit hesitant.
    I never heard back from Wade to find out if he solved his problem.
    You have to scrubbed the bore after each round for the first 20 rounds?

    Nicolas

  • i am loading two different 308 asavage 10 and a fn spr my problem is i am getting misfires in the fn i have been loading ammo for afew years have all the percision tools i load every thing from my 223 to my 50bmg all once fired brass has been fulllenth sized trimmed i used a rcbs mic to obtain seating depth on the savage loaded a box they shot fine in the savage but in the fn it seams the fireing pin does not hit the primer hard enough to fire the round could this be a seating depth problem.need help from sumone who knows what they are talking about.sorry typing aint my thing

  • Pof owner.

    I own 2 pof-308 rifles, and have had them at the range twice since owning them. I have had multiple jams and misfeeds double feeds etc, rounds getting stuck in chamber rounds not extracting without force, sometime they wont pick them up outta magazine even. I have gotten no more than 5 rounds in a row ever. Ive used Blackhills match 168, 175gr m118 m118lr fn 762 etc all with the same or worse results. The only group I have fired from the rifle was less than .5moa so its an accurate gun but it refuses to feed. I bought this as a shtf rifle and so far have been disappointed I hope pof makes this right.

  • Dan

    P-308: A month later…

    After getting my P-308 back from Patriot, I have been to the range seven times. Every time I’ve been out since my initial trouble, the thing feeds like a hungry dog. Every shot is perfectly placed, and I’ve now run about 500 rounds of South African and German surplus 7.62×51 through it without a single misfeed. I take a lot of clients out shooting as a networking/client relationship building measure, and I have to say it’s really impressed. Hats off to POF. They made it right.

    my $.02

  • I too own a p-308 16″ gun and guess what? I have problems as well. I have the same problems a lot of you seem to have the gun does not extract rounds (i have had to use cleaning rods to get them out and close the stock and slam it on the ground). I have shot, blackhills, magtech, federal match, nato ball, and a few others. I have put more than 250 rounds in the gun and i tell you this is the worst gun i have in the locker.

    After 18 months i finally got the gun. I will tell you that i am a gun retailer and i have had NOTHING but problems with POF. I will tell you that i know a few of you have had good success with chris but we have dumped POF as a retailer because of him. The would lose orders, tell us we did not place the order and at one point chris unloaded at my business parter! I have not been able to test the MOA because of all the cycle issue been trying to trouble shoot that. I am glad to read these posts. lets me know i am not alone on my problems.

    As far as orders go. We where told 2 months, then 2 months come and go and we call them they cannot find the order. 2 more months come and go and still no rifles. 10 months come and go and still no rifles. 14 months come and go, starting to get the pattern! 18 months! after we where told 2. My parter and i cancelled all our orders but two. we will not do business with them. BUT we wanted a rifle to T&E. I will say when we did get them the craftsman ship seemed good.

    BUT on closer examination there was rust on the piston assembly. i called them to get a new part and they wanted me to send the item back to them and i need prior permission, kind of an RA but no one was around to give it to me i was talking to some girl that answered the phone.

    I have noticed some wear on the charging handle.

    I have to say, i own a AI, Noveske, Les Baer, Wilson, Barrett, and quite a few more mil style guns and i have NEVER had such a bad experience my suggestion is BUY NOVESKE! we sell them (not placing an add here) and we have NEVER NEVER had a problem!!!!

    If you use POF bring a back up gun!

  • Nicolas

    By continuing reading comments on the pof-308 i realize this is not the rifle for me, i am moving on.
    Thanks.

  • mrushing76

    The customer service is great with POF, but the wait is what sucks. I hate to think that the troubles I previously had is the norm. It could be that those that have inevitible problems are on here posting about it. I would hate to dump on a great rifle. I think the POF is very tight and just needs to be broken it. Even though is says oil-less…I would add a little oil. As stated before, mine would jam rounds in the barrel, but after adding oil and shooting 50 rounds through it it’s run with no real issues. Every once-in-a-while (very rare) a round doesn’t pick up out of the DPMS mag. Still on backorder for POF mags…

  • Dan

    Once I got mine in to POF, they turned it around in less then a week.
    Sucked that it didn’t work the first time out to be sure, but since that, I have had not one single mis-feed/jam at all. I’m actually really shocked to hear the negative feedback on POF on this forum. My experience with them once they were aware of the problem was pretty great. My $.02

  • I don’t think that the people who have had problems just happen to post here.
    I think what people need to look at is that (probably) a small sample of people have posted here, of the overall problem. I like to say that people are NOT unique even though we feel that we are and that our experiences such as this rifle are NOT unique either.
    I would say that on such a small forum i would be alarmed that SO many people on this forum have had problems, makes me ask HOW many people that have had problems and do not know about this forum, don’t have computers, don’t know how to post, or just don’t give a damn. I think i would be more concerned about what we don’t know that what we do.
    Just my two cents.
    And just a thought about breaking in a gun or a gun needing to be broken in. I have never had a gun become MORE reliable after a period of time. when you have a problem with a firearm it is a function of some thing NOT working right. That problem does not JUST go away. I have several wilson combats. there is a break in period of 600 rounds before you even break them down. BUT the break in period does not mean you are suffering jams misfeeds etc. Quite the contrary they WORK flawlessly. It has always been my experience that a pig is a pig is a pig /shrug for what it is worth.
    Not trying to be a stick in the preverbal mud but i own a few guns and i can truly say that this one has been the biggest downer. I could be wrong but i do expect when rifle manufactures make you wait and charge top dollar that the gun should work for the get go. maybe the cost of the gun does not include quality control or a quality check?

    incoming rounds have the right-away!

  • AlaBill

    Talk about the power of the internet…

    I had just read the article about the POF 308 in the AR Rifleman magazine this past weekend and determined this was to be the 308 rifle for me.

    Talk about luck. Finding this website is a godsend for me. I see no advantage in starting out with a rifle that has this many problems. It also appears that this is not just a single flaw limited to a very few rifles. Just too many problems for me.

    I would bet there are a great number of the POF 308’s still sitting around in the boxes having never been fired. I bet many of them have the same problems as listed here.

    Any other suggestions on a 308 battle type rifle with low recoil?

    Thanks all for the up front comments…

  • hay Alabill, I think you made a wish choice. My suggestions would be 3 at this point.
    If you want the top of the line piston gun i would look at the LWRC REPR i have personally fired that rifle and it is VERY nice and it has some really good features. The barrels are “quick change” and can use the rifle in many configurations check out this link

    http://www.lwrci.com/p-120-repr.aspx

    Also if you want a TOP of the line gas gun look at noveske. I will say that they are finally getting caught up on their 308 production so it might be a wait for that one BUT if you dont mind the rifle is well worth it.

    Another one to consider and a medium price point is the FN AR 308 i personally have not fired one BUT we have sold a couple in the store and the over all “KIT” is very well done. I have gotten a BUNCH of positive feedback. Plus FN is top notch company no way you can go wrong.

    Hope that all helps. All the guns will do at worst SUB MOA, if accuracy was my primary interest it would be hard to chose.

    aaron

    • Aaron,

      It seems like you’ve got a bone to pick with POF. I am a third-generation gunsmith and a former US Army Infantryman. I am also a retail dealer and I’d say your claims and your recommendations don’t add up.

      I have had just as many problems with LWRCI as I have had with POF. POF is actually a bit better at this point and I’ve never recieved heavily used parts from POF before (but I did from LWRCI).

      I have to laugh at your assertion that you have never seen a gun work better after the break-in. You obviously don’t understand metal-on-metal reality.

      Add to this your recommendation of the REPR. LWRCI still hasn’t even figured out how to fix the problem with barrel harmonics the piston system on the REPR causes. Trying to get sub-MOA groups of of a REPR is a joke. Their piston system is also much more complex than the tried and true FAL-style on the P308.

      I own 2 P416s and two P308s and they are my personal guns. I got rid of my LWRCI M6A2s and my REPR.

      Overall, I have tried nearly every high-end manufacturer that makes a semi-auto in .308. For the price, the P308 is the best of the lot (I like LaRue’s as well, though). Wish Barrett would get in this game.

  • Gaidin

    Honestly, I don’t know where all this hate is coming from. Other than the wait time on the order I have had nothing but good experiences with Chris, POF and this rifle.

    My times at the range, I have had no miss fires, jams, or any of these issues people are talking about as a cause of the gun. The one problem I had was due to a bent feed lip on the mag that was causing the next round not to feed. There is a little bit of wear in the chamber and on the feed ramp, but that is to be expected.

    The rifle is sub-moa out of that box, great handling, and surprisingly light. I wouldn’t know it too much till you take it seriously and handle it just as you would handle any other new rifle.

  • troy

    I have a POF 308 16…..I bought it about 2 months ago. It has functioned perfect for me from day one.
    I do have a a iron sight issue however. I installed the Troy Flip up sights front and rear and am unable to get them to zero. They are adjusted full right and are barely on the paper. I also had a issue with getting my Leupold Mark 4 1.5-4.5 to zero. I had to flip the GG&G mount around and adjust the turrett full down to ger her to zero, which leaves me nothing for elevation adjustments. I wondering if it is a rail issue or the parts I selected complete my rifle.

  • gaidin, not sure what you are interpreting as hate BUT people are simply stating that they have had serious issues with this manufacturer. I guess it the truth hurts some times? I personally think that people should know where there are issues and what to expect and can make an informed decision on a product.

    Hay troy, I have seen that problem and was due to the rail system not being in perfect alignment with the receiver. It is an angular issue. Small amount off at the receiver can cause a football field of correction down range. small suggestion would be to put a laser bore site if you have one in the bore and see where it aligns up with the iron sites. OR visa versa put the laser on the rail and the will give you an angular picture. First place i would check would be on those barrel screws (on the left and right of the rail system ) and the rail screws. rail might not be true. there are some peoples of people saying that the gas block is not aligned to the rail maybe it is the rail that is not aligned to the gas block ?? just a thought. either way probably going to have to go back.

    hope that helps and good luck

    aaron

    PS i did send in my rifle a few days ago and it only took them 1 total week to get it back, pretty fast. I had a problem with stuck rounds. They replaced the bolt and assembly seems to be working BUT out of 40 rounds i did get a lite primer hit. Hoping that is not due to the firing pin being out of spec now. I will post more here next weekend going to blast 100 + rounds see what happens

  • Dan

    Gaiden: I’m with you on the “where’s the hate coming from” train.

    My POF-16 is a beast! After getting it back, I’ve abused the thing thoroughly and can now say I trust her implicitly. After 2000+ rounds, She’s a sub-moa, feral pig killing machine!

    I own quite a bit of tactical hardware, and nothing I’ve ever fired in 7.62×51 has been this lightweight. I’ve never felt a .308 with this little recoil.

    my $.02

  • Hello Guys:
    thanks for all the feedback of your POF’s 308s
    I was just getting ready to order one with a 20 inch barrell but I must say that I think that I will have to wait.
    Too many bum reports of malfunctions.
    Maybe if these were temp anomalies I might reconsider. If any of you have any suggestions please e mail me at rexmanltd@verizon.net. It is a beautiful gun and I really would like one but I must admit that I am discouraged with what I have read here. I have two Galils and a Saiga AK and they are awesome and extremely reliable. Really do not want headaches and just wish to have fun.
    Merry Christmas to all and happy holidays. Plz let me know of your thoughts.
    Thanks
    Manny M.

  • troy

    Arron,

    Thanks for the input…..I sent the upper out last week and got her back today. It was sent back out the next day after they recieved it. They(POF) replaced the whole upper rail system and upgraded the bolt, it may actually be a whole new upper they test fired. They said it was the rail system out of alighnment.

    A+++ For customer service.

    Like anything new to a market…there is going to be a few issues to resolve along the way. I used to work for BMW and Mercedes as a TECH. I have seen brand new cars drive off the showroom floor and make it 2 blocks , only to brake and have it sit in the shop for weeks waiting for a new part or software flash. Alot of these problems come from a impatient customer base, or having to beat the competition to the market with a similar product.

    I bought several Sigs this year….so far both Sigs I decided to shoot, my 226 combat and p238 have had feeding issues right out of the box. I never seen a Sig fail before until now.

    My neighbor bought a KRISS and did his friend…..both of them have had their weapons back to the factory twice with no resolve. Both are stove piping and having primer strikes after the first mag is run.

    I am starting to think that the possibility of new gun law fears, drove the demand up so high last year. That Quality Control may have gone out the window for a few companies.

  • Hay troy i would tend to agree with you. I have seen the QC of several brands seem to go out the window. Most recent we had a springfield Micro Compact my biz partner purchased and the first time we went out and shot it the ejector broke. we only fired about 30 rounds they had a tempering issue.

    It does seem to be an issue effecting the industry right now. I am glad you had a positive experience.

    I sent my complete upper into POF for the repairs i stated above and they got it back pretty fast about a week. +-, My only concern is that there was not a letter inside stating what they did for repair, and when i called the guy answering the phone could not tell me. Disorganized! But i will say as i think i stated above so far so good but the weather has prevented me from putting enough rounds through the gun to be confident. Especially not knowing what the issue was. (they did say they replaced the extractor, but that was not the issue /shrug)

    just my three cents

  • Dan

    Thats a really insightful take on the QC problems we’ve all seen.

  • Hey guys. Thanks for all the inputs.
    Gonna give it a whirl and get me one with a 20 inch barrel.
    Their [POF] CS seems superior. I called and spoke with Chris and was very impressed with his demeanor at least. He seems very honest and up front.
    Will report back to you later on.
    Happy Holidays
    Manny

  • Dean

    Hi Guy’s, I am having the same problems you all are having, Chris told me to send it back and I cannot find there address, anyone have it, Thanks,Dean

  • troy

    Here is the address to POF. Make a note of your problem and attention to Chris in repairs.

    POF-USA, 5619 N. 53rd Ave, Glendale, AZ, 85301

  • Dean, here is the address i sent it to.

    Ship To:
    POF USA
    ATTN REPAIR
    5619 N 53RD AVE
    GLENDALE AZ 85301-6011

    aaron

  • Ryan

    Hey, guys, just got my P-308-16. It’s new from the factory, 2009 stock. Haven’t gotten a chance to really test it out, but I’ve taken it to a nearby range twice now, and I’ve been very happy with the limited usage so far. What’s impressed me the most is how clean the bolt carrier group stays.

    The first time I shot it, I didn’t use any lube, and I used the cheapest surplus military 7.62’s I could find (Venezuelan FMJ’s). The first couple of shots, the bolt “stuck” slightly to the rear. It wasn’t locked back, it just didn’t slide all the way forward after firing. After smacking the rifle, it shot back forward. This happened twice, but after the first few rounds it never happened again. The rest of the ammo fired perfectly, and I didn’t notice any problems.

    The second time out, I had a little bit of lube in the rifle (from when I was cleaning it) and I used Remington .308 Core-Lokt (again, cheapest .308’s I could find nearby). I’m not sure whether it was the magazine that comes with the rifle or the rifle itself, but it did NOT like that ammo. I only used 20 rounds, but out of the 20, 4 failed. It appeared that when chambering the next round (after firing) the Remy .308 had troubled clearing the magazine, causing the bolt to ram it into the magazine wall. The bullet was then jammed BACK INTO the brass casing. This happened four times. I’m sure this sort of thing probably has a name, but I’m relatively new to this type of shooting. As a note, though, the rounds that did fire properly kept a fairly decent group. If I had to guess, I would think that this problem is entirely the fault of the particular ammo I chose. The soft nose probably caught on the magazine wall as it was feeding.

    The rifle was a snap to clean. I literally just wiped down the gas piston pieces and the BCG. There was a tiny bit of carbon inside the chamber, but it too just wiped right off. It wasn’t nearly as dirty as an M-16 after the same number of round.

    Overall, the rifle feels and fits very nice. I love the Ergo pistol grip, it just feels great in the hand. The Vltor buttstock feels great in the shoulder. Really I don’t have any complaints thus far, but it’s still a bit early. I’m going to mount a decent scope on it and see what kind of MOA I can get with it using some higher quality ammo in the next few weeks. After blowing all my money on the rifle, though, I have to wait a bit to buy some good optics 🙂

  • mrushing76

    As stated earlier in the blog, my rifle had non extraction and failure to feed issues when I first used it. After using a little oil and a few boxes of ammo later, it performs flawlessly! With an aimpoint sight I was able to shoot less than an 1″ groups. I think these rifles are very tight and needs some rounds put threw them. I have gone from questionable faith to full faith in this rifle. With it’s looks and the groups I was producing, everyone at the range wanted to shoot it. As far as the Rem CL rounds go, I went hunting with those this year with no problems.

  • Marcus

    I am looking for a “bug-out rifle” or “when sht hits the fan rifle”. I have spent 10 yrs. in the U.S. Army (Airborne Infantry).

    I have survived the colt issued by the Army through multiple deployments. I didn’t have a choice with the colt, but I do now. I felt that I was at risk in combat with the colt, considering after 3 mags it would malfunction in several ways. My need for reliability is now more important than ever.

    Natural disasters, terrorist attacks, and civil unrest are all a real possibility. In these scenarios my firearm of choice’s reliability would be more important than in any combat scenario. More important than myself are my two sons’ and wife. That is why this rifle MUST work. Being able to take down the only deer I have seen in a week is vital. Protecting my family from all sorts of animals to include the ones with the ability to shoot a rifle is vital.

    1: I need a rifle that can shoot ammo from all manufactures and surplus. I might need to find ammo on the go and don’t want to break the bank by only being able to shoot match grade. This is why I am NOT choosing 6.8 or 6.5. 308 is popular and has more to offer than 5.56. I personally witnessed an insurgent take 7 rounds to the chest from a M249 SAW and survive. 5.56 doesn’t cut it.

    2: I need a rifle with relentless reliability. It must be able to go through all that earth, nature, and I can dish out.

    3: Accuracy is paramount

    The list goes on to include weight, ammo capacity, etc…

    When I first learned of your rifles it was in a magazine. The article claimed 20,000 rounds no cleaning, no lube, and no malfunction. We as consumers need to know if your rifles are a good choice. Have the problems been fixed? Should we expect to purchase your rifles for top dollar and a long wait only to send it back for repairs? I am the most serious type of buyer. The rifle I choose will not be purchased for a collection, for fun, or for sport. When it gets used it will be for practice to improve myself as the operator of the rifle. The other is when my family’s lives are at stake. I have spent countless hours discussing the choice of a bug-out rifle with friends, family, gun stores and it has come down to POF and LWRC. I have stuck with POF as my choice for a long time. When I ask the local gun Store’s in Fayetteville, N.C. they say LWRC. LWRC didn’t have a 308 but now they do! In a very real way I am trusting a rifle with the lives of my family. Why should I choose yours? Can the rifles actually reach the claim of 20,000 rounds and why aren’t these making it?

    The following link is one forum discussing the P-308. There are comments regarding your product. I am posting the above and would like a response to this and some of the comments posted. There are references to a gentleman that works for POF named Chris. Chris has helped some of the individuals with there problems. It would be great if Chris or another knowledgeable representative could respond.
    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/02/21/pof-usa-p-308/

  • Marcus

    I sent the above to POF via email and hope they respond. I am like some of you, I thought I knew and was ready to purchase. I think I will take more time.

  • mrushing76

    Marcus,
    Like I stated before in the blog, I had provlems at first but my POF 308 works flawlessly now and I have confidence in it. With that said, I also have an Armalite AR-10. The Armalite has never malfunctioned on me no matter what I have thrown at it (cheap and expensive ammo…dirty or clean). Again, I have full faith in my POF, but if you are concerned and you want a “for sure” great shooting 308 I would go with the Armalite.

  • jkaplan

    have to say i love the “idea” of POF. and yes chris did fix the problem and turn it around although had to send it twice. my LWRC is flawless. would say if i had to rely on one rifle it would LWRC. was thinking of selling my 308 pof and getting another LWRC

  • aaron

    Have noted it before but will note it again. It does not make me happy to pay a lot of money for an ar then have to send it back to the MFG to have it repaired. EVEN if the gun is better when it comes back, leaves me with very little confidence in the platform.

    I second the comment with LWRC ( they are a fantastic company and rifle), i would add noveske in there. Those two in the 208 platform or the best rifles there are.

    I two am seriously considering selling my POF with less than 200 rds in in due to these issues on this forum plus the loss of confidece

    I have a noveske and an LWRC and never had to send them back and the accuracy is bar NONE!

    For what it is worth

  • mrushing76

    LWRC makes good stuff, but $3600 for a 308 is really steep. I was really putting myself out on the $2400 for the POF. The Armalite is less that $1600…but not a piston.

  • aaron

    i have shoot thousands of rounds a year and some times in one outing. A good gas gun will run extremely well! Dont be over sold by the piston system. I only own them to try them out. (like i said the best one so far is the lwrc in function, and design with the short stroke (and that is important) piston.
    Here is my suggestion, shoot the hell out of what ever system you buy, run the gun, and after thousands of rounds you will have your answer. I never take a gun fire a few rounds if it works put it in the rack. train train train and that is not just your skills but the systems too.
    The gas and carbon have to go some where and it exits in a piston gun up at the gas block through a “valve” style system and is vented by a very small hole. LONG story short. I am betting with same abuse as a gas gun compare the carbon build up at that point you will start to have similar issues and even stoppages. BUT that is a prediction. that is in a POF take a look at the LWRC and the system is a little different just an observation

    aaron

  • Adam

    I sent my 16.5″ P308 back to Chris in Sept. I would fire then *click*. Never ejecting the spent brass. The fixed that problem fairly quickly.
    However, I can only get to the range once every 2 months or so, and he I am in March with another feeding issue. Now it only ejects the brass half way causing it to slam into the next round being fed into the chamber.
    This is getting expensive because it ruins the next cartridge…. I have an email out to Chris again… I’m getting really sick of having such an awesome rifle…that doesn’t work. Kinda wish I went with LWRC.
    But if they could just get it to work reliably then I’d be happy as a clam.
    Like another guy towards the top of this forum posted, I want this to be my SHTF rifle. It NEEDS to be reliable. And it’s way too expensive to not work correctly.

    Note- I’ve tried all kinds of rounds, both factory and reloads, brass and steel, dpms and magpul mags.

  • aaron

    Adam I know your frustration. As you can see in the posts i have had issues too. I think if i was purchasing another LWRC REPR or Noveske (gas gun, the only way they make it)

    I wish i could offer you some words of advice but i pretty much stand by my initial comments POF is subpar since they started farming out their work . I dont want to be a broken record so i will say read all my previous posts and know that i will never buy them again as a FFL holder and a gun enthusiast.

    aaron

  • Ryan

    Has anyone has had an issue with the upper and lower not fitting tight? My 20″ seems to have a lot of play between the upper and lower, enough that I can grasp the upper and wiggle it from side to side. Most of my ar15’s have no play. For the money, I though this would be the same if not better. I wish I would have been able to hold my gun prior to purchase. I just emailed POF but no response yet. It’s as though the front pivot pin hole wasn’t cut right? Any ideas?

  • Adam

    Try this:
    http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=698479

    I put one on mine and it helped the wiggle.

  • aaron

    i took mine out this weekend this will about 60 ish rounds since i got it. i had 2 click and no bangs!!

    Ryan, that is a little normal there is a little bit of play just depends on how much you have. you can use a tensioning pin its called to get it really tight. but if is really lose then it is just a bad fit. would not surprise me on the bad fit part.

  • Silas

    I have a question for everyone who has had feed problems with a POF 308: Did you opt for the NP3 coating, or the black anodized finish? I know it shouldn’t make a difference, but I can’t help but wonder if the different finishes come out of different shops.

  • mrushing76

    Mine is black and there is no slack between the two. My rifle started out with ejection problems (round stuck in the barrel), but after a few boxes of ammo I only experienced the occasional no round pick up out of the DPMS mags. Now, after 100 rounds or so fo differnt types of ammo (7.62 NATO and 308 Win), I get no malfunctions at all. I also opted to buy the 7.62 Magpul mags (from Botach) which are a better fit then the DPMS ones. Never sent mine back to Chris…just shot the heck out of it and now there are no problems.

  • Jerrod

    Just bought a P308 20″ on March 20. Shot about 150 rds through it so far with a mix of Federal Gold match 308 168 gr SMK BTHP and Winchester 7.62 147 gr FMJ. I used DPMS and PMAG mags. I have had about 25 feed issues so far. 1) Sometimes the rounds did not fully chamber. 2) Sometimes the bolt would not strip rounds out of the mag. 3) The bolt would not lock to the rear after the last round was fired out of the mag. I did not lube it like my other AR’s because they say no lube. The funny thing is my buddy said hes never had any reliability issues with his P308 14.5″. He shot it all day in the lane next to me with no problems and was getting some really nice groups. I have a Noveske AR 5.56 and it is very Reliable and Accurate and now I am wondering if I should have gone with a Noveske 7.62 over the P308. I also carried a M16-A2 when I was in the USMC infantry and never saw these kind of reliability issues. Well anyways, I left a message with POF to see if I can send it back to them so they can take a look at it and fix it. I will let you all know how it all works out with POF.

  • Jerrod

    I was determined to get my P308 to run so I went back out today and was going keep forcing rounds through it until broke in. First I cleaned the gas ports but still had about 30 feed issues out of 60 rds fired. Then I tried taking everything apart and cleaning and lubing it. I applied a small amount of CLP on all the moving parts before I reassembled it. Normally I run my AR’s dripping wet with CLP but only applied a very small amount. I dont know if POF reccommends CLP but I was desperate so I used it anyways. Well lubing it did the trick because I had no issues during my next 6 mags of 120 rds. I dont know why they say no lube required because that seems to be the cure. So I take back all the bad things I was saying above in my last post. This weapon is completely reliable and I fully trust it now. I even started getting some really nice groups and could get my whole 20 rd mag inside the 50 yd 2″ circle which is good shooting for me right now with the old scope I have. I cant wait to see what this thing can do with a little more practice and a better scope.

  • dan s

    I took my POF out to the mojave desert last weekend. It was dusty, windy, and I was using crap (DAG, slightly corroded cases) surplus ammo. After three days of shooting 300+ rounds DAILY with NO cleaning or lube, I didn’t have one single misfeed. (one non-fire, but there was a pin mark on the primer, and it extracted and re-chambered the next round perfectly so I blame the ammo) 900 round torture test complete. I was with a large group of gun guys. We had a VERY wide variety of AR systems, AK systems, SKS’s, Garands, .30-.06’s, .22LRs… the works. Everyone agreed the POF was a dandy!

    In short, after sending it back and getting it fixed last year it hasn’t had a single bump! I LOVE my POF-308. It’s stupid accurate for a 16 inch barrel. 2 inch groups at 600M is fine by me!

  • aaron

    i am confused how a gun does not work and has problems them people think it is reliable after one outing. If a gun fails it is not reliable it is problematic. My life depends on these systems. I would never say a gun is reliable after only a couple hundred rounds i would say my confidence is up, and if i have to lube the gun when it says lube free that would concern me that some thing was not right. Just my thoughts.

    Like i have said in the past i own one i know what i am talking about on this stuff. dont be so quick on this stuff gang.

  • dan s

    I cant speak for anyone else on reliability metrics. At this point, I’ve taken mine out about 20 times to the range, twice hunting, and one, four day outing to the desert. I’ve ran about 4000 various rounds through her from Winchester white box, partisan, DAG, SA, Federal match, and reloads. During my four day outing I didn’t clean my weapon once in a super dry, dusty environment and ran over 1200 rounds through her, many as fast as I could re-acquire my target and squeeze.

    Anyone’s life can depend on their weapon system being functional when called to action. Lately, MY biggest concern is being charged by a feral pig, but in another life I had a bit of experience with various AR syystems as well (MOS 11H, then 18B). That said, I’ve done some shooting. For me, any weapon system that can accurately place a .308 round on target at 600M 1200 times without libe or cleaning is by definition, reliable.

    my $.02

  • Wadse

    Way back in Feb of 09 I was the fourth person to post on this blog, and told everyone how dissapointed I was that my brand new P308 20 in. SPR would not group worth a damn. Well, here’s an update. The bad news is that I’ve been so insanely busy for the past two years trying to keep my business alive that I’ve still not sent the rifle back. The good news is that I have a friend who bought three POFs (two of which had serious problems) who personally flew one of his problem rifles out to POF in Phoenix in his private plane and reported having a fantastic experience. He said that they treated him like royalty, rebuilt his rifle twice while he waited (They weren’t satisfied with it the first time.), gave him a brand new receiver and rail system, updated his rifle with all the latest factory design upgrades, test fired the rifle, and even gave him a pocket full of spare parts, all free of charge. He even reported having a nice chat with Frank Desomma (founder of POF). My friend was so excited that he called me from Phoenix and couldn’t say enough about how pleased he was. He said that the guys at POF admitted that they had experienced some quality glitches and that they were very intent on correcting them. My friend and I are planning on flying his plane up there real soon with my rilfe and his other problem gun in order to get those two weapons straighened out also. Well… I’m encouraged. But, of course, I’m still holding my breath. I hope to give y’all the full story soon, including a range report on my rifle after they’ve reworked it. I can hardly wait. Stay tuned.

  • Ryan

    Just an update. I previously reported feeding problems with my POF 16″. I got a couple of the PMAG 20LR magazines and used them instead of the standard steel ones, and I added a little bit of lube to the chamber of the rifle (mostly just on the bolt carrier group) and have taken it out a couple of more times now without any of those previously mentioned problems. I know someone said earlier in the forum that ‘guns don’t get more reliable,’ but after breaking this thing in a little it REALLY is running a lot better. I don’t want to say it’s perfect yet, because I need to put a ton more rounds through it before I’m that comfortable with it, but it hasn’t had any problems yet.

  • Greg

    Hello everyone. I’m considering the purchase of a POF P308, but I’m seeing over the past few years of this thread that there are a considerable number of problems you guys are experiencing with these rifles. It sounds like their customer service is excellent, but still having to deal with returning your rifle back to the manufacturer after throwing down $2500 for a “relentlessly reliable” weapon sounds like a real pain! Of course the feed trouble sounds like no lube friction on the bolt carrier with the addition of having to strip a larger caliber round problem , but I hope after this time that they may have the barrel/rail clearance problem figured out. With that said, I still really want the POF! I do have a couple of questions, though.

    As far as barrel length, does anyone have a good comparison on 20″ versus 16.5″. With the slight sacrifice in maneuverability, I’m wondering if it’s worth the extra 4″ of squeeze with the 20 for better long distance performance.

    Does anyone have a good comparision of surplus ammo in this rifle. I see there is now a supply of South African, German DAG and Radway Green. I have read the Radway is nice and clean but maybe slightly on the wimpy side and the SA and DAG has slight corrosion problems being boxed (like my Greek 30-06).

    Well, I hope you guys can help me out with this decision making. Thanks in advance to all.

  • Adam

    I had pretty good accuacy with surplus ammo, even out to 200 yds with my 16″er. It’s been a while so I have no specific numbers for you however.

    On another note, POF just got back to me after I sent my rifle back for the 2nd time. They said they put a new bolt and extractor in and ran 100 rnds down range without incident. I’m REALLY hoping to have the feeding problem fixed.

  • dan s

    I’ve used SA surplus without issue. If you can find sealed battle packs. That stuff is good surplus ammo! I bought some DAG that was really corroded where the links had been stripped. Some of the cases were dented or badly corroded. I threw about 30/1000 away, but the ones I decided looked okay to fire all went downrange without error. I’ve just ordered 1000 of the Radway Green stuff that I saw a great deal on. I’ll report back on it after I get to try some out at the range. I’ll probably shoot some next weekend.

  • Alexander

    They ought to call it POS.

  • Greg

    Dan S, I look forward to knowing how the Radway performs. I hope it works well for you. I think it might be the best overall with all things considered. I just want to know that it has enough grunt to cycle well and have enough punch at decent distances.

    Adam, I hope your rifle is good to go after multiple fixes! Shame it had to be that way with a big dollar AR. Especially one that looks like a work of art on paper.

    Sounds like, with all the problems you’re all having, Chris at POF should be the highest paid MF in the building! But I’m hoping you’re all in the extreme minority and a majority of their work, albeit hurried with many orders, is really top notch. I may still end up with one of these yet.

  • Greg

    Well, I went ahead and took the plunge and won a bid on a P308 16.5″ on Gunbroker this evening. I’ll be one of the optimists in the group and expect it will be sweet right from the start! Also picked up 200 rounds of german DAG in the battlepack this weekend to try out in it. I’m still looking forward to dans report on the Radway, though. If anyones interested, I’ll report on my POF experience when the time comes I have it in hand.

  • dan s.

    Good people of the firearm blog:

    The Verdict: The box of ’93 Radway green 7.62×51 I recieved was GREAT ammo. Flies true out to AT LEAST 600M(The 600M swingers at my range are the longest distance shots they have to offer). I put about 200 downrange. No misfires, no misfeeds, good day of shooting all around. One thing to note, if you aren’t a fan of de-linking ammo, this batch is probably not for you. It took my friend and I about 1 hour to delink 1000, so it’s not too bad if you’ve got a game on or something. It used to have a tracr every 5 rounds, so the ammo depot I bought mine from sent it in four link sections after removing the tracer for the civvie market.

    This batch of Radway should last me until I take my POF out hunting. Planning on harvesting a boar or two next month. I’ll drop another range report once I’ve put some Vital Shok down range.

    Happy Shooting!

    Dan

  • Wadse

    Some may have seen my previous posts here about my 20 inch P308 SPR that wouldn’t hold a group. The rifle had been sitting for the past two years because I had been out of state and the gun clearly was not right. It cycled fine, but even with a high end scope, sandbags, and premium match ammo would print no better than four to six inches at 100 yards. I finally went last week IN PERSON to the POF factory in Phoenix to let them go over the weapon.

    The folks at POF were very courteous. They replaced a number of parts while I watched, test fired it, weren’t satisfied, replaced a couple more and pronounced it perfect. The whole thing took maybe 30 minutes in and out. One of the guys there encouraged me to shoot 60 rounds of clean surplus through it before shooting for group. He said that should get everything seated and ready to show the rifle’s best potential. Saturay I re-mounted my 5×20 Horus Vision scope that I had zeroed on the rail as best as I could before the fix. After putting about 40 rounds of Hirtenberger surplus downrange, I let the gun cool thoroughly and settled down on a rest with a clean target placed at exactly 100 yards. I’m happy to say, that though I was short on time, wasn’t sandbagged, and hadn’t cleaned the barrel since putting the 40 rounds of FMJ through it, I did manage a five round group measuring exactly one inch center to center using Federal Premium Match. I’m encouraged, and hoping that I can consistently print sub MOA with a clean barrel, some sandbags, and a little more time. I plan to go all out on Thursday when two friends are coming over with a couple of POFs each to do some serious target shooting. If anyone wants to know how it turns out, I’ll post a follow-up report.

  • Adam

    Quick update on my POF. I just got it back from POF from it’s 2nd time back for repair.
    This time however, so far I can report zero misfires or failure to feed’s.
    I only went thru 45 rnds, but that is much more than I could ever say before.
    So, so far so good.
    That thing sure is sweet when working…

  • Wade

    Final range report on my 20 inch P308 SPR that POF reworked for me. Some friends came over this week to shoot. Both own three POF’s each, a 5.56, a 6.8, and a 7.62. One of them was shooting his three brand new POFs for the very first time. All said and done we had all seven POF’s — their six and my one SPR — doing three to five round groups at an inch or better with no feeding issues. Everyone was using premium factory match ammo except for the 6.8s which were firing hand loads. After getting in the groove I and my rifle managed a three round group of 3/4 inch at 100 yards. I quit after printing three rounds in 5/8 of an inch center to center on a clean target. I honestly think I can do better. With practice and time, I believe my rifle might consistently do 1/2 MOA or better at 100 yards. That’s my initial goal. Soon I’ll start moving the targets out at 100 yard increments and see what my P308 and I can do at longer ranges. By the way, I’m using 168 grain Federal Premium Match. Conclusions: POF had some problems, but they stand good on their product. They fixed mine, and I couldn’t be happier!

  • Zed

    I just purchased a 14.5″ and a 20″ P308. First time out, the 14.5″ would fail to feed every third or fourth round out of 100 total rounds… mostly from not picking up the round from the mag. Also, the trigger would not reset… it would get stuck, and I would have to manually push it forward to reset it. No lube was used the first time out. Called up POF and they recommended shooting another 100 rounds for break in. I cleaned and lubed it with CLP before the next outing. After the lube and the extra 100 rounds, it now works perfectly with zero problems. After those 100 rounds, I wiped off all the lube and another 60 rounds fired just fine. The 20″ one seems to be reliable from the get-go. Trigger reset problem was also cured with some CLP.

    One thing I did notice is the gas valve is super loose on my 14.5″ where it will move in and out about 1-2mm… whereas, on the 20″ rifle, it is so tight that I need to use pliers to get it out.

    Also, the Magpul PMAGs seem to work better than the factory POF mags… they slide in much easier for my 2 rifles.

    So, basically, if you get a new rifle, I would break it in with lube first time out.

  • Chekov

    Recently got a P-308 in 16″ barrel. First time out didn’t even get a full mag through before it failed to extract. Thought it may be something minor but the claw extractor apparently could not grasp the rim of the cartridge. Upon inspection of the spent casings, I can see the rim of each one had a spot that the metal was bent and near torn on some. Also noted deep scratches on the spent casings also. Could not get the spent casing out that failed to extract, it was lodged in tight. Rather than get it out myself and risk POF pulling a fast one on me somehow I sent it off to them. They sent the pre-paid shipping label, but they chose the slowest method of shipping. It’s absurd, it will take over a week to get to them. I am not impressed with them at all. When I get this gun back, if it does not shoot perfect then it is going to be returned. My cheapo Bushmaster M4 has had no issues, though it was cheap compared to the POF so if it did I wouldn’t fly off the handle, but a $2600 gun should really function flawlessly. VERY disappointed and will not suggest this company to anyone else. They may return a gun that works fine, but I have no faith in it. Looks like my SKS is still my go-to gun. Shame really.

  • aaron

    chekov, i hear your pain i have had nothing but disappointment with mine. I have sent mine in for repair too. Had no extracts double feeds etc. Sent it to them and they said they had repaired it. 60 rounds later i had some more none extracts and some that the bolt failed to close. Yes the damn gun was lubed before any one says any thing (hmm thought it was a dry gun) and yes i was using red box blackhills 308 and using pmags!!!!! I feel the same way this gun is going up for sale on gun broker or some stuff like that. Worst gun i have ever owned. Shame i spent 2k on a optic for it! I will buy an LWRC REPR or a SCAR H when it comes out. Maybe i will gut the gun in half and send it to them that way to make a point.

  • Wade

    Hmm, only had a few feeding failures with mine and that all cleared up fast. As has been noted by others here, most any gun will take some break-in. If you’ve got it down to just a cycling failure here and there, I wouldn’t give up on it until I had given them a chance to repair it and/or put a dozen or so mags through it. All I know is that while mine had problems initially (poor accuracy) POF fixed it, the thing feeds perfectly, and I could now drive tacks with it! I’m consistently getting sub 1/2 inch to 3/4 inch groups at 100 yards with mine and so are my friends with their POFs. We’d all like flawless rifles right out of the box, but in my book a gas gun that can shoot as straight as ours is well worth hanging in there through some teething problems. I know POF has had intermittant quality control issues (who hasn’t?), but my experience is that they absolutely WILL make good on it. I wouldn’t be too quick to throw away a great weapon.

  • aaron

    Wade your faith in POF is admirable. BUT no rifle should “have a break in period” I own over 10 AR platform rifles NONE of them have this track record of issues. My rifle is well beyond “break in periods” I have shot over 600 rounds (every kind of ammo ) through the gun WITH NO reliability. No one is ever going to convince me to keep shooting a broken rifle and it will “break in”.

    Here is list
    Les Baer
    Wilson
    couple LWRC
    Noveske
    Bushmaster
    FN SCAR
    HK 91
    Bigger guns
    AI AW 338
    Barrett 50 cal

    The list goes on but i dont want to turn this into a look what i have. THE POINT IS THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH THEIR RIFLES. NO matter how well your rifle shoots, sub 1/2 ” group at 100 (btw i have had rifles shoot well at 100 and shot like crap at 400 and above) it does NOT mean that their rifle is a good one what it means is that you own a good one. For 2k+ there SHOULD NEVER BE these on going issues. no offense Wade but the truth of the matter is NO rifle should require a break in.

    When a gun is manufactured, it is to a point of operation “in spec” if the gun was made out of spec with a “break in period” the gun is manufactured incorrect! IE shoot the gun so the malfunctions go away and the gun will work better. What kind of horse shit is that.

    (ohh btw i instruct and i take a lot of Thunder Ranch Classes as well as i have been to Gun Site i have seen a LOT of AR’s out there from new to old, break in period that is laughable i have seen people take a brand new NEVER fired lwrc right out of the box and take a class fire 1000 rounds, frangible ammo mind you, and NOT have these kinds of issues.)

    Here is a good example

    Wilson pistols there is a break in period, you shoot 600 rounds then you break down the gun and clean it up.

    This does NOT mean during those 600 rounds the fing gun jams all the time and fails to extract, or does not go into battery.
    These statements are just purely a joke.

    Blind fair is dangerous. If it looks like a pig and smells like a pig by god the damn thing is a pig! These manufactures need to be held to the standard of what you pay for. We are not talking about an 200 gun. if that was the case i say you get what you pay for here.

    Sorry about the rant in advance but little tired of the excuses people make for pour equipment and lack of quality control. This ends up as a backlash on the pour retailers who end up getting an fing ear full when the jack ass manufactures cannot get it right. Do it right! Plain and simple, and by the amount of posts this is not just an isolated operator issue.

  • Wade

    Aaron,

    Well, your experience far outweighs mine. All I know is that POF fixed mine, it works terrific, and so do all my friends’. All of our POF rifles look and feel great, feed with boreing reliability, and seem to be as accurate as anyone could hope for. BTW, I have since shot mine for group at 200 yards and achieved sub-MOA. I’m still working my way out to the longer distances. We’ll see. As far as consistent perfection is concerned, I don’t know. I worked for years in product deveopment for a company that was reknown for its quality. Even though our QA guys were some of the best and worked like men possesssed, we occasionaly had issues with materials or subassembly vendors bite us. But like any really good company we made good on our warrenty and quickly resolved our production issues. With all due respect, I don’t see how anyone can make a general pronouncement about a product based on a sampling of ONE. Aaron, I can certainly appreciate how you feel. I was VERY ticked when my brand new, long awaited, and very expensive rifle grouped worse than worn out AK. But POF took care of it, and took care of it WELL (Three years after I’d purchased it and with no questions asked, by the way!). You got a pig and I had a pig. Pigs happen. The difference between a great company and a lousy one is how MANY pigs they produce and what they do about them. Give POF a chance to fix your rifle and then see what you think. I sure wouldn’t trade mine now.

  • aaron

    Wade i appreciate your input on this. I totally agree with what you say. I am going to send it in again and see what happens. I do know that the problem guns or the run of problem guns started about the time frame you bought yours. 2-3 years ago they started to farm out a lot of their stuff from what i understand. I will send it in again in a couple of weeks and lets see what happens.

    Aaron

  • Shawn

    I posted in july of 09 about ordering a pof 308 in feb of 09 (still have not recieved it). I’ve been keeping up with this blog since then and I have to say no machined equipment sould need a “break in”, properly machined parts would work best new, when tolerances are “tight” (what they’re designed to be from factory). Also everyone who says there rifle has become reliable after they put a little lube in it…you all know that rifle is advertised as 100% lubeless, you should’nt have had to do that. Never the less I am still looking forward to recieving my rifle, whenever that may be.

  • Wade

    You’re a rare man, Aaron. I hope you will not be dissappointed and I don’t think you will be. One thing I didn’t tell you is that one of my friends got a bad one as well, but his was fixed the same time as mine with the same good result. His 6.8 is scary accurate and perfectly reliable. BTW, I have absoltely no ties to POF except that I bought one of their rifles. There’s a number of good 7.62 AR10 pattern rifles out there these days. I really like what I read about Larue’s new 7.62 rifle. Even as much as I like my POF, I’d give that one a close look if I were buying today. I’ve held an LWRC REPER and it really looks great if someone wants to spend the extra money. But I’ll hold steady with my POF if it will shoot half as straight at 600 yards as it shoots at 100. I know that accuracy is not linear relative to distance. But if I can consistently hold 1 1/2 to 2 MOA out to the effective range of cartridge, say 800 yards, I’ll probably keep my POF forever as my mid range go-to gun and never look back. Early indications are good. I’ll probably check back in here with a report when I get some quality time to wring out my POF rig at long distance. All the best to you, my friend.

  • Wade

    Some thoughts for Shawn. It can be a long wait for a P308. I waited more than a year and a half for mine. Man, I was just sure the feds would ban them the day before mine shipped, but it finally came — a year later than they promised, but it came. I too wonder about the no-lube claim. One well known small arms authority did a torture test on a 5.56 POF and reportedly ran thousands of rounds with no lube and no problems. But then I’ve heard others say that problems with their new rifles went away when the added a little oil. Also, when POF reworked my rifle I SAW them lube the bolt when the put it back together. Maybe it’s a break-in thing. Personally, I run mine wet, but it’s nice to know that if I had to run it dry in the field, it would probably keep fuctioning. As for the need for “break-in”, it seems to me that most machined things do work better after a little time for surfaces to seat and mesh together. If not, I’m wondering why car manufacturers, even high-end ones like Mercedes and Lexus, require an oil change after 500 miles on new cars and reccommend owners take it easy on their cars during this period.

  • Joe

    Hi Guys,
    I’m thinking about a POF 20″ weappon. I have a DPMS 7.62 Sportical. But I still long for a 20″ barrel. I’ve read all the previous post and I wanted to share a personal experience that may be relevant.

    About a month ago while at the range I noticed a guy was shooting a suppressed AR15. I got to talking to him and found out that he is a contractor and has been in Iraq since 2003. He comes home for 3 weeks every 9 weeks there. He was also trying out an AK chambered as a 308 but was having problems with accuracy. I let him use my DPMS with Federal Match King 168 grain BTHP. He quickly drilled 6 bullets in the target face (he was using papers with a life size man in arab dress). He then asked me if he could try using his Wolf match ammo. I told him OK. The first five shots were on target but not as accurate as the Federal.

    The sixth round jammed because of a failure to extract. To make a long story short, it turned out that the Wolf ammo is russian made and the DPMS manual says not to use it or it will void the warranty. I sent the upper back to DPMS and they fixed the problem within a week. I put 200 rounds through it last week and didn’t have a single failure.

    What I’m trying to say is that the quality of the ammo will make a real difference in the results that you get. The fact that you guys put all kinds of cheap stuff through your weapons is a real testament to the quality of the weapon. I would advise using only American made ammo. I know it’s more expensive, and I don’t like it either, but a good weapon is worth feeding it right.

    Some of you guys may have had some experience with cheap gas in your car, so you know that pay the majors a few pennies more is worth the trouble that you save yourself. Just one guy’s opinion.

  • Shawn

    I agree with feeding the gun well however, the point of an “apocalypse” gun (what many say they have purchased this gun for) is that you can pick up any ammo you see (in 7.62×51/.308) and shoot it without fault. Yet again I’m quoting the website “Rentlessly reliable”.

  • aaron

    shot my pof again and jam jam jam, 7 jams 30 rounds 3 different mags. bah going back to pof then off for sale. POS!

  • Wade

    I completely agree with Shawn on this one. I’ve fed my P308 almost everything from slightly green, 1950’s vintage surplus all the way up to premium match. It dosen’t seem to impact feeding of my rifle. I doubt that cheap (non-corrosive) ammo is going to actually hurt a rifle. I don’t know, maybe the steel-cased stuff would be hard on the chamber after a while. But Joe is right about accuracy. Everyone I speak with and everything I’ve read says that there’s usually a world of difference between the cheap stuff and good match ammo when it comes to accuracy. I haven’t done extensive teasting on different loads but my 147 grain Hirtenberger surplus groups terribly through my POF whereas my 168 grain Federal Premium Match shoots like a laser. The Hirtenberger suff actualy groups decently in my G3 clone, but, of course, that’s what it was made for in the first place. Conisistent accuracy depends to a large degree on using ammo that is manufactured to tighter standards like match ammo is. The other factor is finding the load that your rifle “likes.” I chose Federal Premium Match for my P308 because the review I read for this rifle (with the 20 inch barrel) said that it shot best with it. My rifle rifle concurs. If I found a cheapo load with the same approximate bullet design and powder charge, it might do okay, but accuracy would still suffer if the ammo wasn’t consistent, and cheap ammo rarely if ever is. The bottom line is that if you’re going to pratice being accurate, there is not much sense in using the cheap stuff. If you’re just fooling around or doing close range action drills or something, surplus might be fine.

  • Joe

    Hi Shawn,
    I agree that any weapon worth having most be reliable, one as expensive as a POF should be “relentlessly reliable”, however I believe that the quality of the ammo is as important, if not more important then the rifle itself.

    My rifle manual (DPMS) in a bright yellow box clearly states “Using re-loaded, foreign or lacquer coated ammunition will void warranty”. There are some very good reason for that and with a little research on my part I learned a whole lot about complex things that most people take for granted. Modern bullets are things of beauty that most people give little consideration, yet are very important in how a firearm performs.

    Some people advocate experimenting with various types of ammo to see which one performs best with your weapon. Once you find the one that works best you want to stick with it. If you buy surplus crap, and cheap imports is like buying a Ferrari and then using the cheapest gas. You aren’t going to get the performance that the machine is capable of.

    Ultimately how a bullet performs is really what counts.

    Go to some of the re-loading forums and you quickly will learn that the main reason people re-load bullets is because of accuracy. Most odf the bench shooters re-load their ammo. They don’t use store bought bullets, simply because there is too much variability in mass produced ammo.

    • Joe, the DPMS really says that!!!! Which rifle in particular?

  • Joe

    Hi Steve,
    I have the 7.62mm Sportical model, but the manual is for all DPMS models. The front cover says “Calibers featured inside include:.204 Ruger, .223 Rem., 5.56 x 45mm ..all the way up to .338 Federal.”

    You can download the pdf manual be going to http://dpmsinc.com/support/manuals/

    • Joe, thanks.

    • Joe, thanks for the link.

  • Joe

    Aaron,
    Which POF weapon do you have? I may be interested in buying it from you.

    You can e-mail me directly at joeregina [at] live.com

  • Shawn

    Hey Joe, completely agree quality of ammo is essential…when talking about accuracy. However I was talking about reliability. I will feed my rifle nothing but quality ammo (when I get it) but a rifle like this especially for this money should shoot anything that can be found in an emergency.

  • Matt

    I just purchased a POF 20″ .308 on GunBroker. After reading the comments here, I’m hoping that I didn’t get in over my head with this gun. If it turns out that it has problems, I’ll first get in touch with POF about rectifying the problem and if that doesn’t do any good, I’ll sell it at the first gun show I attend.

    This rifle has a 20″ barrel with less than 200 rounds fired through it and it’s a sub MOA shooter. It comes with 3 DPMS mags, a nice tactical bag, a Hawke Optics 3x12x50mm illuminated reticle with 4″ sun shade (very bright) mounted on a American Arms quick release mount, GGG bi-pod and Manual.

    I purchased it for the Buy It Now price of $2600.

  • gaidin43

    I have posted near the beginning of this thread when I first bought my POF .308 16″ rifle. Over the last few months I have tested it in various conditions and I am always impressed. I took it out to a police range this past weekend and let a few different firearms instructors from various departments fire it and they were amazed at how it ran and how accurate it was. One of the departments use a HK 416 and were considering the POF rifle as a replacement. The rifle has zero miss feeds, zero jams, and ran flawlessly firing sub MOA the whole time. I used a very light amount of oil and on the inside of the chamber you can see slight wear marks from the bolt, but no burs or major dents.

    I know there are some people with bad experiences on this forum, but it seems if you ever have an issue send it back in and if anything was wrong with it, it is fixed.

  • Joe

    Matt, just yesterday I bought a POF 308 with a 20″ barrel. I did this in spite of the postings on this site.

    The biggest complainer here turns out to be a LCRW dealer and offered to sell me a REPR for $3,718. It seems that POF is delivering a high quality product, so he uses fear and lies to stir people away. Despite all his complaints I am willing to bet $10 against a nickel that he doesn’t even own a POF. By the way I bought my POF through Gunbroker and paid $2,324.

    As usual you have to be a skeptic about what you read on the internet. Anyone can say anything anominously and people often have alterior motives. In this case this person is trying to malign POF because they sell LCRW.

    Sounds like you have a great rifle, go out and have fun with it. I’m looking forward to receiving mine on June 1st.

  • Matt

    Joe, thanks for the response. I had previously planned on getting the DPMS-SASS .308 but after seeing and reading about the POF, it was love at first sight.

    I’m fact, something I just noticed is the mans name in this thread from whom I purchased the gun on Gunbroker, Ron Paquette.

    The gun is supposed to arrive on Thursday and I am pretty anxious, to say the least.

    Is there any brand of ammunition that you would recommend I use and any that I should avoid?

  • Joe

    Hi Matt,
    It depends on the type of shooting you are going to do. The 308 is a long range round and the POF is a high accuracy rifle. It seems that it should be used for long range accuracy.

    Having said that, I personally use the Federal Matchking 168 grain BTHP. It is a high quality all purpose round. It is a bit expensive, but there are others even more expensive. That round is often mentioned in numerous articles as a basis for comparison and that is how I got on to it.

    It seems to me that shooting is a “want to” not a “have to” and therefore indulged by those with disposable income. You spent top dollar for a POF and shouldn’t ruin a fine rifle like that by feeding it cheap imports. If you read my previous posting, you know that they will damage you rifle.

    I shopped it around and bought it from http://www.ammunitiontogo.com, they had the best prices a few months ago and I bought a 1,000 rounds. I still have about 7 boxes left. Another good source of ammo is gun shows.

    Cordially,
    Joe

  • Matt

    Joe, thanks again for all of the info and the link. What would you suggest for some cheap, plinking ammo? I’ve been looking at the zinc-plated Silver Bear 145gr.

    For long range shots, I will definitely be picking up some of the Hornady TAP FPD or Federal Match.

    Is there a way to e-mail you from this board? I would really like to correspond with you about how each of our rifles are doing.

  • Joe

    Hi Matt,
    My e-mail is joeregina [at] live.com if you want to contact me directly.

    Looks like my POF will be arriving today instead of Tuesday, so I’m kind of excited. I’ll be glad to share my experience and what I know, just drop me a line.

    Joe

  • Wade

    Anyone here care to share what kind of accuracy they are getting from their POF 308s? I’d be interested to know what you’re getting and what is giving you the best results. With my 20 inch SPR I’m consistently achieving sub MOA at 100 and 200 yards and have had some 1/2 MOA groups. I’m achieving this with Federal Premium Match in 168 grain. Needless to say, I’m pleased. I need to shoot more and move my targets out to longer ranges to get a better feel for what is possible. Just haven’t had the time and then it’s so stinking hot here in Arizona right now.

    I’ve noticed one thing and I’m wondering if anyone has seen the same thing. When I put a moderate amount of pressure on the forend of my rifle, it seems like my POI shifts. Anyone else experienced that? I didn’t expect that with a free floated barrel. Also, I’d be interested to know if you are experiencing shift from our cold shot POI to warm barrel POI. Thanks.

  • Joe

    Hi Wade,
    I also have 20 inch SPR and I’m getting very good results at 100 and 200 yards. I generally do not measure my shots but they’ve been much tighter then my DPMS. I’ve concluded that the POF can outshoot my Leupold 4.5-14×50 scope and to really put it to the test I have to move out to a 300+ yard range. So I’m now in the process of selling the scope and my 4 month old DPMS for a Swarovski 5-30×50 scope.

    I also have been using Federal Matchking 168 grain BTHP but since they are mass produced I’m not getting as good results as the rifle may be capable. I will start reloading soon so I expect my accuracy to increase. I believe this POF is a dream rifle that will outperform most shooters and scopes that is why I’ve decided to buy a Swarovski in spite of the cost. Reloading is a natural progression if you enjoy accuracy.

    Regarding putting pressure on the forearm I hadn’t noticed any changes, but at long range, I generally shoot with a bipod and do not exhert any pressure on te forearm.

  • Wade

    Hmm. I thought I had sent a reply but it’s not here, so here goes again. Thanks for the reply, Joe. It’s good to hear that I’m not alone or in a fantasy world concerning my POF’s accuracy.

    Swarovski makes some good glass, that’s for sure. I’m using a Horus Vision 5×20 and other than it being somewhat long and heavy, I’m very happy with it. No doubt it’s not as clear as a Swarovski (What is?), but it was half the cost. What really sold me on it was that once it is zeroed to the rifle, you can set up any shot very quickly using the reticule alone. No dailing clicks. On a fast-shooting, medium-range rifle like our POF SPRs, I really like having that kind of speed available. And the glass seems to be quite good.

    On the forearm issue, I’m not sure. Maybe I just started imagining that my POI was shifting after I read about LaRue’s OBR forearm design that was supposed to prevent this sort of thing. I’d be curious to know if there’s any other POF shooters out there trying for sniper grade accuracy who would comment on this. For that matter I’d love to hear from anyone who’s attempting to do precision shooting with a POF. We’d love to hear what is working for you and what isn’t.

  • Shawn

    Recieved my pof 16″ .308, it shot flawlessly, I just function tested it (don’t have a scope yet). I mounted a cheap-o simmons 0x magnification red dot on it just to test, its actually my paintball gun sight. I zeroed it in at 50 yds then shot 100 and 200yds it grouped wonderfully, consistently shot tight groups (several rounds through the same hole). I used black hills 168 gr. bthp match ammo first, 40 rounds no problems other than it was pretty rough on the first 5 or so casings, dents and scratches. Very light scratches after that, I assume it will wear in and stop altogether. After the match ammo I wanted to torture test it a bit, relentless reliability means something to me, so I used seconds ammo dented/corroded/general defect ammo same grain and bthp (80 rounds). Zero issues, not one miss feed/jam and excellent groups. I didnt clean or lube anything at any time, the piston actuation is great the bolt stayed cool and the chamber had nothing in it when I was done, other than a little brass residue on the feed ramps. Although it took a year and a half to get here I am very happy with this rifle and cant wait to get a scope to see what groups its capable of.

  • Matt

    Shawn and Wade, you guys should take a look at the Vortex Viper PST series. They have a warranty that’s second to none, and the glass is as clear as Leupold for a fraction of the price. I plan on mounting the PST FFP 6-24x50mm scopes to my POF in the near future. I have the 20″ P-308 and I love it!

  • Wade

    Matt,
    I’ve heard good things about the Vortex stuff. I’d be hard pressed to give up my Horus Vision reticule though. The glass, though not in the very top tier, is as good or better than many of the big names. I do wish my 5×20 Falcon was lighter and a bit more compact, but the Horus Vision reticule gives me the ability to make precise shots at incredible distances and wind conditions without touching a thing! Follow-up corrections, when needed, are super fast. I feel this is the right stuff for those who want to wring the best tactical performance out of a fast shooting, medium range precision rifle like our 20 inch POF SPRs. Have you shot your SPR for group under controlled conditions? I’d love to hear what you can do with it once you get your new glass mounted. I’d love to hear about anyone’s accuracy testing of their POFs. I’d be ESPECIALLY interested to hear about anyone’s experience who’s shot their 7.62 POFs out to the outer limits of the rifle/cartridge combination, say 500-800 yards. Thanks for your comments, Matt. Hope to hear from you again.

  • cybordolphin

    I think its safe to say Aaron has a hard on for POF. I noticed his bleeding was going on for like 6 months before he decided to send his rifle in to POF to have it looked at. Smells fishy to me. I’m not saying he does not actually own a POF…. but I personally would not whine on a gun for 6 months before having it looked at.

    Anyway….. aside from Aaron’s obvious anti-POF jargon (I had to agonize through all his posts), I think the POF is realizing its claims.

    I just received mine after only a 3 month wait. I will post my findings.

    It would be really cool if some of us would start building a post showing the ammo used and the accuracy acheived with that ammo. It could include reliability as well. So far the Federal Matchking 168 grain looks to be acheiving very acceptable results.

    Also…. I noticed POF states not to shoot reloads. Not sure if that is just an insurance thing. But I would like to work up some handloads at some point. If anyone has had success it would be great to hear what was used on the handloads.

    I have several other POF rifles and lowers and have never been dissapointed. I don’t think my new .308 will dissapoint. But will post my findings

    I am up in the Mammoth Lakes CA area, and anyone from up here who wants to get in some shooting time let me know. I might even let you play with my new Barrett (.416) 😀

  • Wade

    cybordolphin,
    Looks like few have the time or inclination to shoot their POFs under controlled conditions and write about it. I’ve been trying to get range reports from others for months. Even I still haven’t had the time or a cool enough day in Arizona to push out beyond 200 yards though I’m dying to try it. You are correct in saying that Federal Premium Match with the Sierra 168 Matchking bullet seems to be the best bet. Among four or so premium match loadings the Federal has shot best for me and I’m reading the same thing from others. I’ve seen some people do well with similar weight TAP loadings from Hornaday and think that they would be worth a try, especially if you are thinking of hunting and/or better terminal performance in any tactical scenario. You can read my range reports in previous posts. We look forward to hearing YOUR range report. Hopefully others will chime in soon. I’m still hoping that SOMEONE will push out to some longer distances and tell us how their POF’s can do beyond 300. Who’ll be first??

    Hard to believe that you can even HAVE a POF in Kalifornistan. No offense; I grew up there. All the best.

  • BayouBoogeyman

    I purchased a 308 MMR the first week of this month. I fired some old Chinese and German surplus I had since the 1990’s using Magpul mags. My rifle performed flawlessly. The following week I sighted it in using Winchester 150gr and 180gr power points. Again my rifle performed flawlessly.
    I’ve had nothing but good things to say about POF since I purchased my p 415 SPR last year. The shop owner was hoping that I did like the 308 cause he wanted wanted it. I brought the targets to him Monday and told him the rifle is a keeper

  • Joe

    cybordolphin,
    I really would like to be able to send some range reports on the performance of my POF, unfortunately I’m nursing a tennis elbow problem, and I don’t even play tennis. From what the doctor says it may take 2 or 3 months. No shooting in the meantime.

    I’ll be following your progress. Have fun,

  • Matt

    Unfortunately, the only range I have nearby has a distance of 200yds. I’ll be going to the range this Sunday to get it sighted in. The link(s) below are images of my rifle.

    http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/5414/pof3.jpg

    http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/8827/pof2.jpg

    http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/2630/pof1.jpg

  • Wade

    cybordolphin,
    Well, get well soon. When you do, maybe you could find a flat, desolate place and do some serious distance work. There’s lots of places where a guy could set up his own impromptu range. I’m very fortunate to have nothing but BLM behind my house, so I use my laser range finder to mark off the distances and move a home made target stand wherever I want. It involves some work but, that’s what you have to do to get in some serious long range shooting. Most ranges literally don’t go the distance. Lots of guys and lots of weapons can do MOA at 100 or even 200 yards. It’s what you can do at 500, 600, and 700 yards or more that seperates the average shooter from a true rifleman. When things cool off a bit and I get a few things under control in our business I’ll be swinging for way beyond the fence and will let you know how I do. Still waiting for someone else to do the same. I’m just wondering if there are any real riflemen out there in the POF ranks. So far my personal best is 1 1/2 inch groups at 200 yards. I’m waiting for someone to say they’ve done as well or better. Longer ranges would be most impressive. Come on POF guys! Strap on some quality optics and show us what you can do.

  • Wade

    Matt,

    Sorry, got you and cybordolphin mixed up a little in my last post. I saw your pics of your rifle. Nice! I was thinking of going with that same stock/monopod set-up that you have there. I feel I could squeeze out smaller, more consistent groups with the better hold and better cheekweld from that stock. And I really think that the added stability that that monopod should provide would help a lot. Do you find the added weight to be bothersome? Is the setup working well for you?

  • Joe

    Wade,
    I believe that I can at least match your perforance at 200 yards. And I agree with you 100% that at 400+ yards is where we start to separate the shooters from the rifleman.

    I live outside of Houston so like Arizona, there is plenti of open space. I’ve been looking around and I’ve found a private 1,000 yard range 30 minutes from my house. As soon as my arm is healthy I’ll be joining and putting the my rifle to the test. In the meantime I’ll be following posts.

    Joe

  • Matt

    Wade,

    With a full magazine, my rifle weighs 18lbs, and that’s with all attachments in the images above. The weight isn’t bothersome for me personally, until having to carry it around without the sling and then the fun wears off pretty quickly. Ha ha! If you’re in decent shape, having good upper body strength, you won’t mind the weight. On the other hand, if you’re a desk jockey, then you’ll dislike the added weight that the stock adds.

    My next addition to the rifle will be an AAC suppressor, and then I’ll save my pennies for better glass.

    If you decide to go with the stock and monopod, check EBAY! I got the stock, new in box, for $235 shipped. I got the monopod for $95 shipped. You will also need a regular AR A1/A2 style buffer tube because the 6-position/adjustable buffer tube will not work! I purchased one from Midway USA for $30.

    I’m looking forward to getting to the range this Sunday because like yourself, I really think the stock and monopod are going to pay off big time. As I’ve told others, it will eliminate having to hold it steady because it will be propped up on the front bipod and the monopod, which should allow for some pretty tight groups!

    As for the eye candy effect, everyone who happens to see my rifle now wants to touch it and check it out. I was at a gun show earlier this month and I had my P-308 with me. If I’m not mistaken, there was about 400 tables there. I was the only person to have a POF rifle and I carried it with pride, getting many looks and inquiries. I’ll know to take a rag so I can wipe the drool from it next time! Ha ha! There was a few who hadn’t heard of POF and I told them all about the rifle and gave them the POF web address.

    This rifle is the first firearm that I’ve ever purchased, and I’ve had it since May. I had my heart set on a DPMS SASS-308 but after seeing the POF P-308, there was no going back. I am convinced that I made the right choice and I have it out on a daily basis, cleaning and admiring what a fine piece of hardware it is. I plan to purchase the P416 in Spring of next year if all goes as planned.

  • Gamer

    What an interesting thread…bad to good to worse back to bad…give one a time to pause. I guess my main question is that they fixed the current run of rifles….are the new ones coming off the line and still having issues? thanks

  • shotgunKirk

    Everything ‘Gamer’ said and also what about lead times?

  • vtb

    Hello guys.

    Got a question for you.

    It’s time for me to make a choice of .308 AR.

    Candidates are
    JP rifles LRP-07 18″ rifle
    LMT MRP 308 16″5 rifle
    POF 308 16.5″ rifle

    Application – IPSC & Civilian sniper competitions up to 600-800 meters.
    The rifle should be absolute flawless and shoot 0.5-0.75MOA out of the box with match grade ammo (Lapua or Norma)

    The problem is that after the rifle would be brought to me it will
    1. Costs $10K (long story about export and import in my country)
    2. Impossible to ship it back to repair.

    The importer said the POF is a good choice. Personally after reading this thread (thank you Steve )) i’m really puzzled – should i chose POF or should i go for LMT/JP rifles.

    So i need your advice guys on this issue.
    Thank you in advance.

  • Matt

    VTB,

    Like yourself, I didn’t know what to purchase when looking for a rifle. In fact, I had never even HEARD of POF. Don’t let the naysayers on here spook you into buying something else.

    If I had it to do all over again, would I purchase an LWRC? No. Would I purchase a JP? No. Would I purchase an LMT? No.

    I would purchase the POF P-308 again, with the NP3 finish, and I have recommended POF to everyone I know. Money is a little tight right now but sometime within the next year, I want to purchase a POF 416 with a 16″ barrel. I am SOLD on POF rifles and would trust them with my life.

  • shotgunKirk

    IMHO, it is commenplace to have to send your rifle back for repairs. For whatever reason it seems that no company has very good Quality control.
    i have personally seen an LMT piston upper get sent back twice befor it worked right (now works like a well fed work horse) i have also seen (on youtube. not in person) LWRC REPR having problems and needing to be sent back. that’s when i realized that you cant trust ANYTHING out of the box. test it out befor you trust your life to it.
    VTB:
    Seems to me that it wouldnt be that bad of an idea to have a good gunsmith over there lined up if you cant send it back to the USA. that goes for any gun. I personally plan on getting a P-308 20″ bbl with np3 coating. And based on what i’ve read about them it’ll be the best of both worlds. Battle rifle reliable/worthy and sniper grade accurate.

    I do want to know what kind lead time to expect and also where i can get ahold of replacement parts: barral, bolt, bolt carrier, extracter, springs ect. Not so i can build it just so i can repair it when SHTF. laugh all you want.

  • Joe

    Hi VTB,
    I can’t speak for LMT or JP rifles since I don’t have any, but I can say something about the P308-20 from POF. It is very accurate, at a 100 yards getting one inch groups on the bullseye seems too easy. I have yet to experience a jam and I normally shoot 150 to 200 rounds every time I get to the range.

    I’ve opened the rifle up after a shooting session and fount the bolt to clean with only a very slight residue. My DPMS after a few shots you had to wait to let the bolt cool off and then it was pretty dirty.

    VTB you didn’t really ask a question. I’ll say that I am now going to sell a Rock River AR-15 so that I can buy a POF P415-18. Why? There is nothing wrong with the Rock River, is just that my POF has spoiled me. I truly believe that I don’t have to clean this rifle every time I shoot it. I still do, but there is so little dirt on it that it is a pleasure instead of a chore. I also believe that the POF will be more accurate.

    Good luck

  • vtb

    2 shotgunKirk & Joe

    Thank you for your input guys. The problem is i’m in AK country…. the holy grail of sub-MOA rifles is limited to Rem700. So there is no armorer for AR-type of rifle. And by the law i’m allowed to do nothing with my rifle myself except maybe disassembling for cleaning.

    To sum up

    1. every AR (no matter who makes it) in .308 got it’s glitches because of lack of QC on the factory
    2. the better way to go – to have an gunsmith near by

    Resume – i need someone to make a check in USA for the rifle, to ensure everything is working fine and only after that start export procedures.

    BTW
    Can anyone show me the direction where i can study gunsmithing to the level of squad-armorer for AR-type of rifles (for the money of course)? Is it possible for foreigner to study gunsmithing in USA?

  • Wade

    I’ll weigh in on VTB’s question about POF’s quality. Anyone who has studied the rise of POF (They brought the first piston AR to the market.) has to know that these guys really are quality freaks. As has been stated by myself and others here, ANYONE who manufactures anything can (and probably will) be bitten by occasionally quality problems, especially if they deal with sub-contractors as most manufacturers do. VTB’s wants to know if it is likely that POF has addressed their previously known quality problems. Well, personally, I can’t believe that a company that has aggressively set out to be the pinnacle of quality engineering in the AR world would NOT aggressively address their quality issues. I am quite confident that POF has fixed their manufacturing glitches and wont be having many others. I am deliriously happy with MY 7.62 POF. That said, I must admit that I have not proved my POF’s long range accuracy. Though I have established that it is capable of incredible short range accuracy (1/2 MOA or better out to 200 yards), I have not yet proved it’s mettle at longer ranges that are more typical of mid-range military sniping. Nor have I heard of anyone doing this though I’ve repeatedly encouraged someone else on this blog to do so. I suspect that we will not be disappointed when someone finally gives us a report. We’ll see. The only other 7.62 AR pattern rifles that I would think of trading my POF for would be LaRue’s new OBR in 7.62 or the new 7.62 rifle from LMT. The LMT has been standardized by Great Britain as their new mid-range semi-auto sniper rifle. I think that both of these outfits (LaRue and LMT) offer quality in the same league as POF, including the same kind of milspec durability we see with POF. The LaRue is said to be incredibly accurate. I’d love to see someone test all three of these rifles side by side in a well controlled, long-range live-fire comparison. Now, THAT would make a great article for some gun magazine. I suspect that all three of these weapons are comparable and that the choice of one over the other would come down to personal preferences. I hope this might be of help to you, VTB. By the way, where in the world do you live?

  • vtb

    2 Wade
    Thank you for your comment. You’re absolutely correct – my concern was about if POF still has it’s problems or is it OK now (Sep 2010)

    My location is Evil Empire, Moscow.

  • Wade

    VTB,

    You might also want to know that a couple of people I know who have recently purchased POF’s DIDN’T have the problems that some others were reporting earlier. I’m sure it’s solved. When I personally visited the factory to have my rifle reworked (Man! It was wild to see hundreds and hundreds of brand new select fire rifles, SBRs, and every other POF configuration all sitting there within an arm’s reach!). the POF technicians spoke openly about the problems and about how they had redesigned the rilfle to fix them. They extensively redesigned the upper, the bolt, and some other stuff. Most of the changes were just improvements, but some of them were to fix problems. It’s fixed. I’m pretty sure that if you explained your situation to Chris at POF, they could arrange to have your rifle test fired more than the usual few rounds that they put through them. I can’t imagine what would be legally required to get a rifle to you over there. I didn’t even think our government would allow these weapons to ship there. But, hey, if you’ll clear all the legal requirements and buy me a round trip ticket, I’ll pick up your rifle, shake it out for you over here, and hand deliver it. I’ve been all over Europe and the Middle East but haven’t yet visited Russia.

  • Gamer

    Does anyone know if the 16 inch version come in the two tone. I hab eonly seen the 20 inch version

  • ShotgunKirk

    yeah it does.check out their website http://www.pof-usa.com/main.htm
    it’s got all that info on it. let us know how it works out if you buy one.

  • Badlandshooter

    I have been shooting a POF .308 for about six months and have shot only 168 grain tap ammo through it. I have a Nightforce 5.5-22-56. I have shot many 5 shot groups that I can cover with a dime at 100 yards and have shot the rifle over 800 yards at praerie dogs with results that impressed all that observed so I would tell anyone that shoots a .308 to give this rifle a chance! I have never had 1 round jam or had fouling become a problem even when shooting 100 plus rounds at the dog town. I may have found the excalibur of the .308 rifles but I doubt it I just love it.

  • Wade

    Good to hear from you Badlandshooter. Your prarie dog anecdote is encouraging. Nice to hear from someone who’s shot their POF at serious distances. What I’d really love to know is if you’ve shot long ranges under controlled conditions and what kind of results you’ve had. Like you, I suspect these rifles might be sniper grade, but I’ve yet to hear of anyone proving it. I’m hoping for someone who can tell us about their five round groups on paper at 500 to 800 yards. A lot of shooters think that if a rifle will consistently punch one inch groups at 100 yards, it will most likely do something like five inch groups at 500 yards. But that is not the case. Very few rifles that are MOA accurate at 100 will be anywhere close to MOA at significantly longer ranges. Accuracy on most of them degrades rapidly out past 300 yards if not before. Weapons that will consistently shoot 2 MOA or better at 800 yards (That would be groups of 16 inch or less at that range.) are very exceptional. I’m just aching to know if our POF’s are in that class. If you get a chance to punch some paper way out there please do let us know your results, good or bad. Good shooting!

  • ShotgunKirk

    you mind telling us what you doubt about it being the excaliber of the .308? ’cause you give it a damn good review. also what barrel length you got?

  • Wade

    ShotgunKirk,
    I certainly stand by my review. But, some us have been discussing whether POF’s .308 weapons are actually SNIPER GRADE. We’re talking about LONG range performance. I’m holding my final opinion on POF’s long range capabilities until I and/or others PROVE what they can do at the longer ranges that the .308 is capable of reaching. Most experts agree that the effective range of the .308 is somewhere around 800 yards. Now, I can’t think of another 7.62 weapon that I’d rather have in my hand for a short range fight. The POF is utterly reliable and superbly accurate inside of 200 yards. Mine will do ½ inch groups at 100 yards. For a gas-powered semi-auto this is just phenomenal. But, as I said before, while there are a number of fine semi’s capable of good accuracy at shorter ranges, there are VERY few that can maintain top grade accuracy at longer ranges. Here’s a good example: I read an excellent test on AR15.com where they tested about a dozen of the best, high-end (mostly) 6.8 SPC uppers available at the time. Most of them shot MOA and some did sub-MOA out to 200 yards or so. Remember that MOA (minute of angle) is about 1 inch at 100 yards, 2 inches at 200 yards, and so on. When they shot these same uppers at 300 and 600 yards, only two or three of them could to better than 3 MOA. In other words, out of all these fine rifles that could easily punch 1 inch groups at 100 yards, only two or three could do better than 18 inch groups at 600 yards. Most couldn’t even hit the target consistently. Bottom line: It takes a WHOLE LOT more precision and care to achieve good accuracy at 500-800 yards than it does at 100 yards. If POF’s .308s can consistently shoot 2 MOA or better at, say, 700 yards (That would be 14 inches or better.) then, and only then, can we say that they are sniper grade weapons. I bought one, so I’m hoping they can do it! But performance that exceptional must be proven, not assumed.

  • ShotgunKirk

    Well said Wade! i agree with just about everything you said. Let us know how it shoots at those long ranges will ya? i have heard some pretty amazing things about them though.

  • Wade

    ShotgunKirk,

    Thanks, friend. BTW, I bought POF’s 20 inch SPR configuration. That’s why I’m really interested in long range performance. I was hoping to set mine up like the military’s new semi-auto sniper weapon from Knights Armament. I like the idea of a very accurate .308 that can do precision work out to 800 yards and still function as a battle rifle for high volume encounters up close and personal. When finances are better I’d like to get little red dot sight like the new one from Insight and mount it off to the side of the long range scope so I can do super quick and effective, both-eyes-open shooting up close. With a versatile set-up like that one would be equiped to do everything from CQB to mid-range sniping or take just about any kind of game in North America.

  • JB

    Ha, I have a POF 308 and have been very satisfied with the accuracy. It has a 16 inch barrel and will shoot under an inch at 100 yards. I have shot about 500 rounds through it. I have also shot out to 800 yards at steel targets that are man sized, using a cheep mill dot scope with great success. But I have had chronic mag trouble. Has any one else had this problem? Has anyone tried a new Magpul mag? If so how it go?

  • Gamer

    Has anyone so this gun out to 300+yard yet…woul dlove to hear how good it shoots

  • Dennis

    I have a P308-20 and I had initial accuracy problems that were fixed by POF initially. Then I had issues with Burris scope mounts, that has been cleared with the LaRue LT-104 mount. I am now getting .5″ groups at 100yds. I am using American Eagle 168gr Match ammo.

    Dennis

  • I too have a POF in 308. Had it sent back numerous times to fix numerous problems and it still will not load, extract, or eject with consistency.

    Each time I get it back they tell me they discovered another problem that they fix. They told me the last time that after test firing hundreds of rounds nothing went wrong. After I got it back and shoot it the same problems occurred and continue to occur.

    The gas system get a great deal of carbon in the tube that the op rod runs through and the rod and piston get difficult to move.

    Do not plan on shooting this rifle more then 50 rounds before the gas system is so dirty that it impairs the extraction, ejection, and chambering of your ammo.

    If I had read of all the problems this rifle has been causing people before I bought it. I would of never purchased it. Save your money and buy something else.

    The rifle is very accurate when it works, but most of the time the rounds either do not feed or stovepipe. I noticed the rim of my cases have a cut on them from the extractor.

    I have shot many different types of ammo from surplus to handloads. Each time a round will not chamber I save it and shoot it through my M1A without any problems.

    I would never trust my life to this rifle. It is a jam o matic.

    About 30% of the time when a round is chambered it will not fire, because the bolt will not close all the way. I have to tie a piece of cord around the charging handle to pull it back to remove the round.

    It will go back this winter to POF and if they cannot fix it then I will sell it and never buy another rifle made by them.

    For those of you that have had no problems I am green with envy.

  • Matt

    GunNut,

    I had the same issues with my rifle over the Labor Day weekend and to say that I was frustrated would be an understatement. However, I found the culprit and the issue was resolved. I had installed the Magpul PRS stock and when doing so, I wasn’t aware that I would also have to swap my carbine buffer/spring to a rifle/standard length buffer/spring.

    While at the range, this is what was happening:

    The bolt wouldn’t extract the rounds properly and another round would be trying to load with the chambered round only half ejected.

    The bolt wouldn’t push the rounds up into the chamber properly, as the neck of the round would get caught on the inner grooves of the chamber shoulder. I also noticed where the casings had marks where the extractor hadn’t gripped the bottom of the round good enough and if left marks where the extractor had slipped off, leaving the round in the chamber or half ejected.

    Man, I was wracking my brain because I couldn’t figure out whether it was the ammo, or if my rifle had a serious malfunction, or what else might be the problem. Upon arriving home, I started Googling and found that the carbine length spring and buffer don’t have enough “oompf” behind them cycle properly when you’ve installed a Magpul stock and standard length buffer tube. After I had re-installed the Veltor stock that came with the rifle, my problems disappeared, and I’m waiting on the parts needed my rifle to function properly with the Magpul PRS.

    EVERYTHING you’re describing sounds EXACTLY as what I was experiencing. Even if you’re using the Veltor stock, I would get on DPMS or Midway USA and purchase a new carbine length buffer spring and carbine buffer to see if your problems go away.

    I’d be willing to bet that installing a new buffer/spring will solve your problem.

  • Marshall

    Just bought my p-308 recon a week ago, and ive taken it out every single day this last week, at least 500 rounds put through it. i spent two and a half years in afghanistan using an M4 in combat over 400 times, and i honestly have to say that id pay money to have this rifle in combat, it shuts any other AR rifle on the market down. i havent had one jam, and the mother is so accurate, that it might as well have homing bullets. three thousand dollars well spent. Serial number 853. one of the first.

  • Matt

    Marshall,

    Thanks for the input. It’s always nice to hear of someone else having a great experience with their POF.

  • Joe

    I’m with Marshall, I have had my POF P308-20-MRR-308 for about 4 months. I’ve put about a thousand rounds of Fereral Matchking 168BTHP through it and I’ve not had a single failure. After each day I just use breake cleaner to flush out the dirt and then clean the parts with a rag. I spray some Rem Oil on a cloth and wipe the parts down so that there is very little lubrication. I do the same with the barrel. The rifle is dead accurate at 300 yards.

    My 55 year old eyes need all the magnification they can get. On the 18th I should be receiving my new Swarovski 5-30X50 scope. With that magnification I think I will have a better chance of finding out what the limit of this rifle is. It can outshoot my current Leupold 4.5-14×50. Two and three hundred yards shots are too easy.

    My son-in-law is at Fort Hood (Air Assault) now and may get re-deployed next year. If he has to go to ‘stan I would like to loan him this gun, if they allow it (I doubt it). I think this is the weapon that the Army should be using over there. It would certainly give those ragheads with AK’s something to think about. The 5.56 round was intended for jungle fighting where visibility is limited. In the mountains long range and stopping power is what our boys need. They need 308 with good scopes, not stealth fighters at $100 million a pop.

  • Wade

    Been a while since I’ve posted, but I want to comment on a couple of recent posts. First to Gunnut. POF did have a some production issues that adversely impacted a certain number of rifles. Mine was one of them and a friend of mine also got a couple of the problem rifles. POF fixed all of our weapons and they now run like Swiss clocks. It is possible they had multiple screw-ups on your gun, but it sure doesn’t square with our experience. They rebuilt and upgraded ours while we watched (We personally visited the factory because we live in Arizona.), and they’ve been absolutely flawless ever since. We’ve found their customer service to be just impeccable, so send it back. They’ll make it right.

    If Marshall is reading, I’m very curious about your experience. You would prefer to carry a P308 in combat rather than a 5.56 based weapon? I own many AR’s chambered in 5.56, one in 6.8 SPC, and also have my P308 in 7.62. While I’ve never been in combat, I always thought that I’d surely reach for either a 5.56 or my 6.8 if I had to trade shots with someone at close to medium range. I would think that the greater weight, and even more so, the slower shot recovery time of the 7.62 would make it less than ideal for close to medium range work in most instances. Personally, I can place about twice as many shots accurately per unit time with a 5.56 than I can with a 7.62. Perhaps most of your combat experience, because it was in Afghanistan, was learned in the medium to long range environment. I’d love to hear your thoughts on this. Are you speaking of longer ranges like 200 meters and beyond when you say you’d prefer to carry the P308? If you had the choice, would you choose a POF in 5.56 over the P308 if you were going on a patrol in an urban area, or would you just prefer the .308 weapon for ALL environments? I’d be very grateful if you could explain your preferences and your reasons if you would share with us the lessons you brought back from your very valuable experience. By the way, thanks for serving and risking your neck for all of the rest of us! We’re glad that you evidently made it back in one piece.

  • Marshall

    Wade, unfortunately, ive been in close combat as well as medium and extremely long range (to the point where i couldnt even fight back). my military experience as an infantryman includes grenadier, automatic rifleman, machinegunner, team leader, and squad leader. i just left the army after completing a six year contract in april as a sergeant. my preference of optic is a AA powered eotech, and as such, with a close combat scenario, all that is required, realistically is to ensure that your target is within the window of the optic to make a snapshot. (in the case of those without a reflex sight, as long as your front sight post is on target, youlle hit the target within twentyfive meters, within reason of course, IE put the weapon in your shoulder properly.) and yes, a 5.56 is more controllable than the 7.62, but ultimately you can have peace of mind that your first round with the 7.62 will put whatever it is youre shooting at down, for the most part without need for a follow up shot, due to the devastating terminal ballistics of the round. i opted for the 14.5 inch barrel on mine, as im a little more fluent in close range work, but if i have to, i can reach out and touch something. its all personal preference, i would have to say. either way, i was searching for accuracy and reliability, coupled with massive stopping power in a small package, and the p-308 definitely delivers. I also agree with joe, that the military has seriously misprioritized their military budgeting. its a question i ask myself when making a purchase on a firearm, or buying new equipment, “how much is my life worth to me?”

  • Marshall

    If Any of you’d like, i reside in the avondale area of AZ, ive posted on my facebook a couple of pics and a video of my p-308. just look up Engel_Von_Todd [@] yahoo on the email section.

  • Matt

    Cool beans. You can find me and snapshots of my own POF P-308 under n3td3v[at]hotmail[dot]com

  • Wade

    Marshall, sorry to take so long to get back to you. I meant to post right away but got distracted and then almost forgot altogether. I greatly respect your combat experience and the fact that I have none. So, if I seem incredulous it’s not that I doubt the quality of your testimony. That said, I’m surprised that you favor 7.62 for CQB. The 7.62 vs 5.56 controversy has been kicked around the internet ad nausium, usually by people who have no business offering an opinion. I’ve heard many an armchair commando opine that bigger is better, and I’ve heard credible rumors that some soldiers in theater are asking to be up-gunned, but your the first actual troop I’ve spoken to with recent experience who has expressed a preference for a 7.62 battle rifle for urban work. I’ve always assumed that there really were good reasons for going to the 5.56, at least for engagements inside 150 meters (which seems to be the majority of engagements, period). Supposedly they had analyzed lots of fighting from WWII, Korea, and early Viet Nam and came to the conclusion that the vast majority of rounds ended up being fired for little more than suppressive effect. My step-father, who fought in the Battle of the Bulge and all across France and Germany told me that he threw down his Garand and picked up a fast cycling 9 mm German sub-gun as soon as he could. I’ve heard others with real combat experience say that the preferred the lightest, high volume, “bullet hose” they could find. They all said it was about suppressive fire, keeping the other guy’s heads down. But, men have different fighting styles, and weapons and tactics change over time. Based on the many conversations you’ve probably had with experienced troops, could you estimate what percentage of the guys who really know their way around a firefight might actually choose a 7.62 over a 5.56 for their personal rifles? I’m not talking M14 vs M4 but if they could chose any rifle at all.

    By the way, I live in Safford, AZ. Maybe you’d like to come out and try my back yard range. BLM as far as the eye can see.

  • Hey guys, I have some good news from a POF owner on a website I frequent.

    This is his setup:

    20″ POF P308 w/ Nightforce 5.5-22×56 HS ZS, PRS, etc.

    My question to him was:

    How do you like the NightForce on the POF? That’s what I’m wanting to mount on my own. What’s the best groups you’ve got, and at what distances?

    His reply was:

    The Nightforce is fantastic, especially with the high speed turrets. I’m holding sub moa out to 800 yard or so and usually shooting .5 to .75″ groups at 100 yards.

    _______________________________

    I’ve sent him a message, inquiring about what ammo he’s using and I’ll let you guys know as soon as I hear back from him.

    I was excited to get his first response because it just goes to show that the POF P-308 is definitely worth every penny!

  • Marshall

    Wade, you are absolutely correct, in my opinion. Any Soldier will adopt his own gear preferences as well as fighting style as he becomes familiar with the actual job of soldiering, (i.e. i try to keep my magazines for my rifle on the left side of my abdomen, as i reload with my left hand.) The concept of using a .308 for urban use is also a double edged sword, take for example, that some of the pros include superior penetration of enemy cover, while that very same penetration may be a danger to friendly troops in the same area. Hence the reason that most Infantry platoons will prefer to clear or fight through an urban area in a linear fashion, is to avoid said weapons effects.
    I would have to say that the preference between a 5.56 or a 7.62 CQB platform was really based on the available platforms they used to be offered in. I have yet to meet somebody who would actually prefer to clear a house with an M-14 versus an M4, but now that .308 is offered in a compact platform like the P-308, I’m all for it as a CQB rifle. You are actually taught to perform “controlled pairs” and “failure drills” (2 in chest, 2 in chest and 1 in face” on reflex, and with such a large round, it actually nearly completely eliminates a need to further follow up with more shots, so you can move on to the next threat. i HAVE heard stories of insurgents exfiling from an ambush to safety with as many as FOUR 5.56 wounds, meanwhile i have NOT heard about anyone walking away from multiple .308 GSW’s. Case in point, the military’s M240B machine gun fires a .308, and thats a full metal jacket to boot.
    Oh, and if you have coyote in your area, you probably won’t even have to ask me to come shoot HAHA.

  • max

    @wade

    i am 18. and i am looking to buy a rifle i have set my mind on a 7.62x51mm/308. win. i have been looking at the fn scar 17, pof 308 16″ barrel, and a m14/socom. i was ready to buy the pof 308 however have heard many stories like yours and i was wondering if you would recommend the pof over any of the others.and if you know pof has made the changes to their rifles yet. i hope to recieve a reply from you or someone else

  • Max,

    If I were you, I’d ask the guys at snipershide.com the same question. Many people SWEAR by their POF rifles over any other.

  • Ryan

    JB,

    I saw that you asked about the Magpul mags, but I don’t think anyone answered your question. After I got my POF (16″) I had all sorts of problems with ammo not feeding correctly, getting caught on the “lip” as others have said, or, in some cases, double feeding. I ditched the steel mag and used the Magpul Pmags instead and those problems mostly went away. I say mostly because I’m still not 100% satisfied that it was the magazine and/or cheap ammo that I was using. I’ll need to put quite a few more rounds through it before I’m happy. There’s just certain ammo types that I’ve used that it does NOT like, which really surprises me. Most of my problems have been with soft-tipped .308’s and milsurp 7.62’s. I believe I’m looking at two different problems, though. The soft-tips didn’t like the steel mags, and work much better with the Pmag, but the 7.62’s (some Pakistani, some Venezuelan) don’t seem to kick enough to get the rifle to cycle properly. There were many times that I fired and the next round simply failed to chamber. Other times, the second round chambers, but upon pulling the trigger again nothing happens… after waiting an obligatory few seconds, I kick out the round and find no ding in the primer–the firing pin wasn’t even hitting the rounds after that first shot. So I guess subsequent shots are seating correctly. This happened to me repeatedly one trip to the range with the aforementioned milsurp ammo. On the other hand, though, it tore through another milsurp (Indian, I think) without any problems. It’s a little frustrating, honestly, because I felt that this rifle should be able to eat up just about any 308/762 ammo. On the plus side, it’s pretty damn accurate, even with the crap ammo.

    So, in short, the Magpul Pmags did improve the feeding issues for me overall (and they’re only like $18 at MidwayUSA!), but my particular POF seems to have refined tastes when it comes to ammo.

  • Joe R

    Ryan,
    I couldn’t help but cringe while reading your post. Feeding cheap military surplus ammo to your POF is like putting cheap gas from a Stop and Go in a Ferrari. The car will run with a lot pings and sputters, but even more importantly if you continue to do that in the longer run you are going to have big problems from the cumulative effect of those cheap rounds. Changing mags may help but the damage has already been done.

    I speak from personal experience. Been there and done that. Fortunately I learned that lesson early on a 308 DPMS using Monarch and Wolf ammo. I sold that rifle and I haven’t repeated the mistake on any of my other rifles including the POF.

    Too many people pay too much attention to the rifle because its what they see. What they don’t see it’s the bullet. It’s bullet and the casing are critical in the performance of the rifle, just as the gas is to a car, or food to the human body. Ask any doctor (I’m married to one) and they will tell you a bad diet will lead to severe long term health problems and a shorter life span. And really bad food will make you sick very quickly.

    In my opinion it is ultimately all about the bullet and it’s placement. If that doesn’t matter you probably should have bought an AK, they’ll fire all kinds of junk and seldom jam, but most people that have them are hard pressed to hit a regular 18″ target past 50 yards. Your POF used to be able to drill shot groups of less than an inch at 100 yards. Now you may not be able to do that because of damage that has already been done. So switching to good American made ammo will help, but won’t undo the damage that is already there.

    If you like to shoot a lot, like I do, get into ammo reloading. It will lower your cost, but more importantly you’ll get custom made rounds that perform so much better that there is no comparison. Learn more about the bullet that’s were the real difference happens. Buy a book or cruise the forums on reloading, what you will learn will change to way you think about shooting.

    Merry Christmas to all,
    Joe

  • I have a P308 16.5. I shoot sub MOA at a 100 yards, and have knocked steel targets down at 400 to 700 pretty easy (target size is around 2 feet by 2 feet) I am very impressed with the POFs. I did have issues with mine before and had to send it back in, but POF fixed it and sent it back within 2 days express shipping on them, and also sent me 60 Hornady rounds to test her out. She shoots flawlessly now and I couldn’t think of a better AR platform. I am in the Army, I have used many different small arms in my time, but fell in love with the 7.62×51 when I got to use the M24, and M21 in a school I went to. The 7.62×51 is no means the best round for any one job, but is a great round for most. POF also has said they are working on a 300win, that is a great long range round and is a much flatter path than the 7.62×51. For the P308, I’d say from CQB to 700m you should be ok, maybe 800m with the 20 inch barrel, but don’t expect too much more from it. Thanks for your time.

  • Ryan

    Joe,

    I actually did get into reloading (for the cost!), but right now I only do it for .45 ACP, and haven’t made any actual rifle rounds yet. I shoot handguns a lot more than rifles, so I just haven’t gotten around to buying a set of .308 dies. 🙁

    You referenced permanent “damage” being done to the rifle by the cheaper ammo several times in your post, but could you be more specific? What kind of damage are your referring to? The barrel? If a handful of milsurp rounds can ruin the rifle, then do you really think it’s worth two and a half grand? I’ll be upfront with you and say that I’m fairly new to rifle ownership, and my previous familiarity was primarily through my service rifle. I’m a good shot, but I make no claims to know all of the mechanics of the rifle outside the basics. That being said, though, I have a hard time understanding how a rifle that’s touted as having “ultimate reliability” could be permanently ruined by doing exactly what it was made to do. My M-16 never had accuracy issues and the ammo I used they was by far crappier.

    I understand that, ideally, you should use the nicest ammo possible for any firearm you shoot, but it was also my understanding that this particular rifle was made to eat up anything, under any circumstances (or at least that’s how it’s advertised). If it’s not a rifle that can be used with cheap ammo… then that’s not really reliable in my book. Maybe you’re right, maybe I should get an AK, but this rifle was presented as the best of both worlds–a reliable piston system with the accuracy of an AR platform–and that’s why I got it.

    I like to shoot a lot, but, quite frankly, I can’t afford to spend $1.25 a shot, especially when I can get Wolf ammo for about $0.40 a shot. *sigh* Even if I start reloading my own rounds I can’t really beat that price. Although I admit it is much more fun to make and use your own rounds.

    Again, I’m not arguing the point that you should use better ammo, but you make it sound like I’m going to destroy my weapon by using decent milsurp ammo, and I just don’t understand how a P-308 could be inferior to my beat-to-hell M-16 in that manner.

  • Joe R

    Hi Ryan,
    I’ll address each of you comments in quotes.

    “You referenced permanent “damage” being done to the rifle by the cheaper ammo several times in your post, but could you be more specific? What kind of damage are your referring to? The barrel?”

    First of all let me say that that I did not say “permanent” damage. The damage you may have done to your POF is likely to be minor and easy to fix. The extractor is probably the thing that brakes first when using cheap ammo. To replace an extractor it takes a few minutes and a few dollars. So don’t sweat too much over it. The barrel is unlikely to be affected.

    In general, the more insidious thing to worry is the effect that the brown/lacquer finished ammo has on all the internal parts of the rifle. It is cumulative and nearly impossible to clean. Additionally, the kinds of problems associated with cheap ammo, made in Communist bloc countries, is their accuracy or lack of it. They have old machines that our manufacturers sell off when they are deemed too expensive to maintain. Because they are worn out it is hard to calibrate them properly and for the calibration to stick. So you get more inaccurate products. Whether it is a brass case, a bullet jacket, gun powder accuracy matters and lack of it has an immediate effect and a long term effect on your rifle. I’m still talking in general terms here.

    “If a handful of milsurp rounds can ruin the rifle, then do you really think it’s worth two and a half grand?”

    Accuracy is expensive because of the law of diminishing returns. With each increment of improvement costs escalate exponentially.

    “I have a hard time understanding how a rifle that’s touted as having “ultimate reliability” could be permanently ruined by doing exactly what it was made to do. My M-16 never had accuracy issues and the ammo I used they was by far crappier.”

    “Ultimate reliability” is a marketing term has nothing to do with real world. Have you seen those Fidelity commercials about the green line appearing for their customers? Have you seen any green lines anywhere? Do you think anybody asks themselves “I just signed up with Fidelity and I didn’t get a green line”? I just got ripped off. It’s concept marketing.

    “I understand that, ideally, you should use the nicest ammo possible for any firearm you shoot, but it was also my understanding that this particular rifle was made to eat up anything, under any circumstances (or at least that’s how it’s advertised). ”

    Most people know that there is no such thing as a free lunch or the tooth fairy. Your POF has eaten everything that you’ve put in it, so far, just as advertised. But there are long term consequences and at some point they will begin surfacing.

    You can spin your tires with no immediate impact, but few people would expect to get the same life time of use afterwards. And the more you do it the shorter the life span. It’s the same if you do it with Michelin or some no name tire.

    “I like to shoot a lot, but, quite frankly, I can’t afford to spend $1.25 a shot, especially when I can get Wolf ammo for about $0.40 a shot. *sigh* ”

    Boy I can understand that. I love to shoot, I would do it once a week if I could, but I can’t because it’s expensive. I shoot about 150 to 200 rounds of 308 and a couple hundred 9mm rounds every time I go to the range, about once a month. I would also like to buy the Wolf, Brown Bear, etc… have a good time and let tomorrow take care of itself, but I learned about delayed gratification long ago. It’s just a personal thing, I like to buy good rifle take good care of them so I can use them for a long time. When I was young I didn’t feel that way. My son has a sign by his bathroom mirror that says “You have to be young and stupid before you can be old and wise”. I guess I’m just older than you.

    “Again, I’m not arguing the point that you should use better ammo, but you make it sound like I’m going to destroy my weapon by using decent milsurp ammo, and I just don’t understand how a P-308 could be inferior to my beat-to-hell M-16 in that manner.”

    What I believe is that American military ammo is a lot better quality then most people give it credit for. After all it is made by American, for Americans on American equipment owned and operated by the American government. I know they also buy from commercial manufacturers, but not foreign ones.

    Your POF is not inferior to your M-16 on the contrary it is far superior. You have to remember that most of the time the military buys from the lowest bidder that meets the specs. My son in law, who is leaving for a second tour from Fort Hood to go to Iraq on February 11, said that he’d love to have the POF simply because when they took cover behind the mud walls and buildings in Iraq they discovered that his M-4 rounds would not penetrate the walls, but the AK-47 would. How would you like to be in that situation? Do you still think your POF is inferior?

    Kindest regards,
    Joe Regina

  • Ryan

    Joe,

    Thanks for the info, I appreciate it. I’ll definitely take it into consideration when selecting ammo in the future.

    By all means, I feel my POF in .308 is superior to my M-16 in almost every way… if only it didn’t keep failing to feed (although I’m working on getting this problem sorted out).

    I wish your son-in-law well over there, and I hope he comes home safely.

    Ryan

  • Eggers11b

    I agree, I am in the U.S. Army (Infantry) the P308 is a much better firearm than the M4/M16. It’s a much more reliable firearms, and perfer piston over blow back any day. The 7.62×51 over the 5.56 is alaways a better pick.

  • Joe R

    Ryan,
    I appreciate the well wishes for the safe return of my son-in-law. Your a good man.

    Eggers,
    the 11bravo is a dead give away to us old Army guys. I want you to know that I appreciate your service to our Country. Because of brave young men like you the rest of us can enjoy the good life here in the states. May God bless you and keep you safe.

    Kindest regards,

    Joe

  • Blaney19D

    Hey all,

    I am very pleased to hear that everything has been going well on the P-308 front. I will admit when I first found this page I was starting to wonder about the “wonder rifle” I am telling all my buddies about. However as we have all seen it seems that the issues have been hammered out. I for one plan on purchasing one when I return home from my little jaunt with the Army here in Africa.

    I plan on dropping some hard earned cash on the 6×48 Trijicon ACOG, and seeing how well the platform will do at engaging “targets” out around 600 yds. It upsets me how people will “bash” another brand or company just because they are fans of another. For example Ford/Chevy/Dodge. I also get really upset when people say that a weapon is crap because “it” (the weapon) can’t shoot a sub MOA.

    The reality is, it is the shooter the entire time. If you haven’t mastered iron sights, you have no business in the next level. My dad refused to let me use any weapon system we had with optics until I had mastered my little .22 long rifle with iron sights. Pissed me off to no end… especially when we went on father son shoots on Post, however in the long run it payed off and I now shoot 40/40 on the Army weapons qual.

    I would also like to address the ammunition problem. I have encountered some terrible looking ammo that really, should have never ever been issued out to anyone…and it has worked fine in my M-4s, M-9s, 240’s, and 249’s. Surprisingly enough though all the “Ma Duce” ammo was nice and shiny 🙂 . That says something for the “mass produced” Mil spec ammo that is issued out to the military. I may just be lucky but I would like to say I love the comment about the American, making the ammunition for Americans, at an American plant, in America.

    That all being said I have rambled on for far to long now, I envy those of you who have your POFs and get to shoot them when you can. Enjoy them and please continue to post some range stories on here for the others and I to read.

    God Bless,
    SGT Blaney

  • Ryan

    Just another update regarding my failure to feed issue. For a brief recap, after firing the chambered round, the following round would frequently slam into the area below the feed ramp (not going up the feed ramp).

    I contacted POF via email, and they arranged to have UPS pick up my rifle fairly quickly. About 30 days later I got it back via UPS. POF had replaced the bolt, “extended” the feed ramp into the chamber slightly (maybe 1/8″) by smoothing out the area where the ramp and the chamber meet, and polished the ramp and chamber. Best of all, the only thing that I actually paid for was the box and packing materials I put the rifle in, which came to about $7. POF offered to reimburse me for the shipping/packing costs if I send in the receipt, but I kinda forgot and the $7 wasn’t really worth the trouble, anyway. All in all, I was very happy with their customer service and warranty, my only two complaints being that they didn’t notify me when they shipped the rifle back (I only found out when the UPS deliverer left a “1st attempt” note on my door), and they didn’t clean the rifle after testing it. The cleaning isn’t a HUGE deal, it just irked me a bit. As a former Marine, I compulsively keep my guns clean at all times, and I berate my friends when I see that they haven’t cleaned theirs 🙂

    Regarding the repairs, I haven’t taken the rifle out yet to try it. It looks like they put a few mags through it before they sent it back, which gives me high hopes that it should work fine, but we’ll see. I’ll post again once I have a verdict.

    I haven’t really posted about the accuracy before, but I should mention that even when I was having feeding problems the rifle seemed very accurate. I have the 16″ barrel version, and when some friends and I were just shooting for fun from the bench (with a bipod) I hit about 1″ to 1.5″ MOA @ 100yds fairly consistently, and we were using cheap Wolf ammo and not really trying for accuracy. I feel pretty confidant that if I get some nicer ammo and put my mind to it, I might be able to get close to that .5″ MOA mark. Again, though, we’ll see. Like Sgt Blaney said in his post before mine, if I can’t shoot it more accurately then it’s probably my fault, not the rifle’s, at this point. I’ll probably head out again before the end of the month and post the results.

    -Ryan

  • Gamer

    Please keep us posted

  • Ryan

    Ok, sorry for the long delay. I don’t have much to reports, but I didn’t want to leave anyone hangin that might be interested. To follow up on my previous posts, I’ve taken the P-308-16 out a couple of times now. Regrettably, I’ve only been able to put a few mags through it, but I haven’t had any of the previously mentioned problems since I got it back from POF (various failure-to-feed issues). What’s been taking me so long is that I finally branched out from reloading just handgun ammo, and I’m putting together my own .308’s 😀

    Even shooting my handloads, the rifle hasn’t had any problems. I’ve only been shooting off-the-shelf FMJ’s and my handloads (Hornady “A-Max” ballistic tipped bullets, Winchester brass, Hodgon Varget powder… can’t remember what primers I got…) and I’ve only gone through maybe 50 rounds, so this doesn’t really say much regarding the reliability issues. However, I was previously encountering multiple FTF’s every time I took the rifle out, and haven’t had any yet… so TECHNICALLY it’s already doing “better” than it was before, for what that’s worth.

    The rifle remains very accurate, and is a joy to shoot. If I had enough ammo I’d shoot it all day. When I miss, I can tell I did something wrong, like pulled to hard or flinched or anticipated, etc, and when I do everything right it’s right on target. The rifle was very accurate before I sent it in, though; the problem was the feeding issue. Only time and more shooting will tell! I’ll give a quick update at about the 200-250 round marker (not including the rounds I fired before I sent it in).

  • Gamer

    thanks for the update. I am ready to pull the trigger on the hunter/sniper .308 model…it’s going to be 3 -5 weeeks before it comes in

  • Gamer,

    The wait on the POF*USA P308-20-HSR-308-SPR is much longer than that. In fact, I have an online buddy who has been waiting nearly 16 weeks for his and it was purchased directly from Patriot Ordnance Factory in Arizona.

    I have recently completed my build, short of having a Thunderbeast 30P-1 suppressor which I hope to purchase this fall. The specs are as follows:

    Magpul Precision Rifle Stock
    Geissele 2-stage Super Semi-Automatic trigger (2.5lb 1st, 2lb 2nd)
    Magpul 7.62 Pmag
    Primary Weapons Systems FSC30 compensator
    Accu-Shot BT13 monopod
    Atlas V8 BT10-LW17 bipod
    Falcon Industries Ergo Tactical grip
    American Defense Recon mount
    NightForce NXS 5.5-22×50 (NP-R2 reticle, zero stop)

    http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/5773/p1000343z.jpg
    http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/4899/p1000347r.jpg
    http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/5779/p1000355e.jpg
    http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/2093/p1000364f.jpg

  • Dan S.

    My experience with POF has been a mixed bag.
    I had a couple problems with my POF P308-16, I had to send it back a twice.
    The first time I took it to the range, I had failure to feed issues. The weapon would chamber using the charging handle, but when fired, if failed to strip the next round off the magazine. I made the mistake of shipping it to the store I bought it from(on my own dime, I might add), who then sat on it for several weeks before shipping it to POF. POF’s service department had it back in my hand in less then a week.
    The next time I went out to the range, I put about 100 rounds down range without incident. I took it our hunting, and all was well… until…
    Thankfully, it happened on the range, and not in the field. I had just finished off a magazine. The last round ejected strangely, sort of ‘rolling’ out of the ejection port. The bolt was completely seized up, locked back half way and would not come unstuck no matter what I tried. It was the worst jam I’ve ever seen.
    So, I sent it back(Direct to POF this time), and despite them taking a few days to send me the RMA and their shipping information, they repaired it very promptly and got it back to me in about two and a half weeks. This time, they completely replaced the bolt, and now, I have to give POF their due, this rifle is a real treat to shoot! I’ve put through well over a thousand rounds of good military surplus, federal vitalshok, custom loads, range ball .308, all kinds of ammunition, and not one single hiccup has occurred. She’ll eat whatever I feed her. I cant comment on groups/MOA, because I shoot food and silhouettes, but I can consistently hit a boar sized silhouette with irons at 700M. With a good scope on her I’m sure anyone with any rifle skill could thread needles quite a ways out.

    It’s been a bit of a bumpy road getting here, but POF made it right. None of the repairs cost me a thing(except shipping it to the store I bought it at, my fault). After everything was said and done, I have confidence in my POF as both my primary hunting rifle, and as my SHTF solution.

    Dan

  • Vtb

    Well.

    Reading all these stories over past year make me think only one thing: “does anyone at POFs customer service speaks to Management to ensure changes are been made to QA at the production line?”

    The same story over and over: “buy the rifle – go to the range – experience FTF or FTE – call the POF – be treated in a pleasant way – receive repaired rifle – no problems at all”

    The words like “people who don’t experience the problem just don’t post anywhere” – honestly c’mon guys – how often you’ve heard on the forums that anyone at all had problems with for example Remington R-25, or DPMS (know the same as r25) or JP? I mean if production numbers are nearly identical (rem can be large scale) – if guns would be equally well Qality Checked prior leaving the factory – we’ll hear equal amount of complaints over the forums.

    So basically there were enough amount of time to fix the issues… But POF still fixes the past (repair bad guns) and not trying fix the future (fix the reason)

  • Mike

    Hi guys, hi Wade & Joe and everyone and hahaha, Arron!!

    Guys I have read this whole thread from the beginning (WOW this thread is years old, tonight it is Xmas eve 2011) and I must say, my heart was sinking very quickly at the start. Well it got better as it looks
    like POF has worked out the kinks? I hope so. But anyway I have a problem, I live in Kalifornistan in the SF bay area. I really want a P308, like yesterday. I have the funds good to go but again I live in Commieville!! So I must posse to you who can hopefully answer, if I order the P308 upper will a Ca legal lower receiver be acceptable and not hamper the performance of the P308 upper? I want the 16.5″ barrel. Any info is great, any and all recommendations please!!

    Thank You for any knowledge you can provide, and merry Christmas to you all!!

    Mike on the left coast……

    • Mike

      Hi guys, hi Wade & Joe and everyone and hahaha, Arron!!

      Guys I have read this whole thread from the beginning (WOW this thread is years old, tonight it is Xmas eve 2011) and I must say, my heart was sinking very quickly at the start. Well it got better as it looks
      like POF has worked out the kinks? I hope so. But anyway I have a problem, I live in Kalifornistan in the SF bay area. I really want a P308, like yesterday. I have the funds good to go but again I live in Commieville!! So I must posse to you who can hopefully answer, if I order the P308 upper will a Ca legal lower receiver be acceptable and not hamper the performance of the P308 upper? I want the 16.5″ barrel. Any info is great, any and all recommendations please!!

      Thank You for any knowledge you can provide, and merry Christmas to you all!!

  • Joe R

    Hi Mike,
    I feel your pain with the Cal restrictions. Since I bought my POF complete I don’t have any first hand experience. However, in the past year I’ve seen several POF uppers mated to different lowers posted on Texas Gun Trader. I just looked, and right now I don’t see any. I know for sure that at least one POF (308) upper was mated to a RRA lower, another was mated to a DPMS lower. That tells me that it can be done. Of course I don’t know if they had to do any “adjustments” to accomplish that. But I suspect that wasn’t the case because I’ve had both DPMS and RRA rifles in the past and I’ve found all their parts to be standarized.

    Just as a side comment, in the past year I have bought a Remington, Kel-Tec RFB, Savage 10BA all in 308 caliber. I can truly say that the POF is still my favorite rifle. The others have their advantages, but overall if I had to have only one rifle it would be the POF.

    Good luck Mike, and keep us posted.

  • Dan s

    Personally, I’d buy the whole system upper and lower together. Any good rifle store will sell you a pof complete with the California legal fixings.
    The reason I say this is these rifles are engineered with VERY small tolerances, and the upper/lower fit like a glove. If something goes south, you’ve got one proverbial neck to choke, and no room for finger pointing crossfire between manufacturers. You may well find a combination that works exactly like you want, but it seems to me a risky gamble. An update to my previous posts: I have now put somewhere north of six thousand rounds down range with my Beatrice(p-308 16), and she’s not had a single malfunction.

    • Mike

      Dan, thank you too, sir!! Oh yes absolutely I would much prefer the matched POF rifle. You know what I did not know that they are outfitting a lower to beat the Kalifornistan regulations. This is awesome if true. I will have to call them and have a chat. Now I wonder what the lead time is, I can’t wait months!! This rifle will be my primary go to defensive weapon for SHTF occurrence. Who knows when that will happen if it does? Clock is ticking faster now me thinks!!! I have two Win. 94AE one .45 Colt & other .44 Mag that I handload for. Two .22 LR semi auto rifles, a Glock 23 in .40 s&w, a Sig P226 in 9pm and a Ruger single action Super Black Hawk .44 Mag. and a cute little single shot 12 gauge. I still feel naked with just those, that .308 AR with decent glass and reliabilty gives us so much more
      capability, obviously.

  • Mike

    Joe, thank you for your prompt response. This thread is so old I was I didn’t know if I’d get one. But you are very helpful!!

  • Ryan

    Holy crap, this thread lives! Ha ha! Seems like you already have your answer, Mike, and I concur with Joe and Dan. Get a matched upper/lower if you can, but I’ve seen POF uppers used with different lowers, and I’m not aware of any reason why you couldn’t pair it up with just about any standard AR-10 lower–it just might not fit quite as well as with a matched.
    Here’s an auction on GB for a California-compliant P-308 14.5″. It might not be exactly what you’re looking for, but it’s just an example to show that they’re out and about.

    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=265831601

  • still love pof

    I called pof about a gun I bought,but have not yet received.the conversation was mainly about the stories I read online,poor customer service and wrong items being shipped.I would rather hear from them.long story short I was told my gun was a week away from coming…. the wrong one was sent..

  • Mike

    Just orders pof p308 🙂 can’t wait to see how it goes

    • Joereg

      Mike, did you decide to buy a complete rifle? what size barrel did you go with?

    • Randy

      I just recieved my P308 20″ last week: it is flawless.

      I ordered it December 26th from the factory California legal. It came with one 5-round magazine. I have ordered 10 round mags through Calegalmags.com. DPMS makes stainless steel, and Magpul makes 10/20 that work fine.

      I am waiting on my Burris AR-536 scope to mount (UPS has it on the truck to be delivered today: tick-tock, tick-tock).

      I’d post a pic, if I could, but take my word for it: POF does it right.

  • Adam

    I purchased a POF 415 with 18″ barrel chambered in 5.56 in Jan of 2012. Took it to the farm to break it in with federal XM193. Out of 4 mags I had 3/4 of them jams. FTF and FTF and cases stuck in chamber. I was furious!!! $2100 on a POF or should I say POS! Needless to sy I sent it off and Darrel was less than helpful. Haven’t received it back but I’m done with POF. My LWRC never has a single problem. Glad this wasn’t a defensive situation. I’d be dead

  • James T

    I bought the POF P308 several weeks ago and bought the Armalite AR10. Both are great rifles and certain shoot fantastic.
    The POF P308 is what I prefer, it is smooth and consistent. Not to take anything away from the Armalite, it is fantastic!
    The POF is just a mechanical hard charging rifle, that puts the round dead on. if I was placed in a position to grab one or the other, my first reach would be my POF.

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  • Silas

    This thread has been quiet lately. I’ve followed this thread for years, always intending to purchase a P308, but never quite getting there. Then, just as I was about to… Newtown. My despair grew as I watched the panic buying in the market, and the gun grabbers going to work in D.C. Last month, I went looking on Armslist, (I know, dangerous) found a 2013 production P308-16, held my breath, and paid MSRP. I’ve not had it to the range yet, but visually at least, it is nearly flawless. I’ve mounted a Leupold VX-R Patrol 3-9×40 in a Burris P.E.P.R. mount, with a Burris FastFire III riding on top of the front ring. A bipod is on order, and I’ll post an update here with links to a few pictures, once I have some range experience to report.

    For those who’ve not checked the POF-USA website recently, they now have a recommended break in procedure that includes running the gun wet for the first few hundred rounds. I plan to follow a copper equilibrium break in / cleaning regime. Wish me luck…

  • KillShot

    I’ve not posted here in quite awhile so here is the finished project, not including the Thunderbeast 30BA suppressor that is pending approval.

    Specs as pictured are:

    POF*USA P308-20-HSR-308-SPR

    Magpul 7.62 Pmag
    Slash anti-tilt heavy buffer
    Flatline Ops anti-cant level
    Magpul Precision Rifle Stock
    B.A.D. Ambi-Safety Selector
    Atlas V8.1 BT10-LW17 bipod
    Accu-Shot BT12-QK monopod
    Rainier Raptor Charging Handle
    Ergo Tactical Deluxe grip w/palm shelf
    NightForce ATACR 5-25×56 HS ZS MOAR
    GDI Engineering P-ROM L-Model™ 25MOA
    Geissele SD-E 2-stage trigger (1.2lb first, 2.3lb second)
    Primary Weapons Systems PRC (precision rifle compensator)

  • KillShot

    The images didn’t attach to the last comment so here it is.

  • KillShot

    Here’s my own POF*USA P308.

  • Travis

    I have a 16.5 pof with a nightforce atacr 5×25 and was wondering if I should have ordered the same mount but with 25 moa. I ordered the GDI Engineering P-ROM L-Model 0 moa, and I would like to shoot 1000 yards occasionally, although I am pretty sure I have enough moa’s built into my scope to cover it, opinions?

  • Amatuer

    Has anything changed in the last two years? Does customer service still suck? I was interested in a POF USA 7.62, got the catalog and discovered that the trigger mechanism has rubber parts. Does this bother anyone besides me? What happens when this puppy reverts, turns soft, and the trigger mechanism falls out? Is there a metal alternative? I consider this a heritage gun but with that kind of stuff it won’t even last my lifetime.