The POF-USA P-308 is a interesting rifle. It is a gas piston operated rifle, based on the AR-10/AR-15 design and requires no lubrication.
14.5″ version
They achieve this by plating the upper receiver with silicon nickel and chroming and heat treating the bolt and carrier.
Upper receiver
Here is a video of it in action
In spite of its name, it is chambered in 7.62X51mm, not .308 (yes, there is a difference).
More info at POF-USA and Defense Review.
Comment Policy: I reserve the right to remove comments at my discretion. Think of comment threads like a dinner party at someone's house. If you make the party unpleasant for others or me, you won't be invited back. I am happy to tolerate a wide range of viewpoints, even extreme ones, but I'm not going to tolerate nastiness, rudeness, trolling, vitriol, or excessive snarkiness toward the author(s) or other commenters. You may make your case passionately, but civility is expected. Please stay on topic and respect the technical nature of this blog.
Spam Filtering: To avoid spam, comments are filtered using Akismet and then manually approved. Do not be alarmed if you comment does not appear instantly. I do not check the spam folder more than once per day.
What ammo have you fired in the P-308? I spoke to POF and they tell me the P-308 has NATO reamers. Based on my calculations it will not fire .308, yet POF, over the phone, says it will.
What is reality?
There is a difference between the rounds (pressure), but generally you can fit .308 rounds in a 7.62×51 chamber. If they say it can handle .308 then I am sure it can.
I’m impressed with this rifle’s reliabilty ratings, but wonder why I can’t find MOA specs.
Is anyone able to comment od accuracy?
There was a great review done by Defense Review. They stated that with the 16-inch barrel they were able to achieve sub-half minute-of-angle groups out of the box with no break in. Here is the article.
http://www.pof-usa.com/articles/GW_POF-USA_P308_%5B1%5D.pdf
Here’s a POF P308 range report of sorts: I purchased my brand new P308 SPR with 20in. barrel, about a year ago but due to travel and work could not get a chance to shoot it until last summer. Grrr. While waiting I mounted a new Horus Vision 5-20x scope on ARMS throw lever rings and stocked up on match grade .308 from Black Hills, Federal Gold, and Winchester. All were high-end match loads with 168 grain match bullets with the exception of one 175 grain match load. After getting the set-up zeroed I settled down for some careful accuracy testing. I was quite disappointed as the rifle would not be consistent. The best I could do was one or two slightly sub 2 inch groups while most were larger and some went as wide as 6 inches! Now I can definitely shoot MOA with a rifle and ammo that are up to it, and I was definitely taking my time and feeling comfortable during the two range sessions I spent with the gun I should also note that I was following good break-n procedure and cleaning the bore often. During zeroing I carefully scrubbed the bore between each shot fired. And afterwards I did so between each test group. There is one important caveat here and that is that I knew the rifle to have a flaw when I shot it. Before I had a chance to shot the weapon, while I was fondling it one day I noticed that the piston gas block mounted on the barrel right where it emerges from the rail system appeared to rotated maybe five degrees clockwise when looking down the business end of the bore. Now, the way this rifle comes from the factory there is very little clearance between the outside surfaces of the gas block and the inside surfaces of the rail system that surrounds it. Far too little as far as I can see. On my rifle the combination of the tight fit and the misalignment causes the gas block to actually TOUCH the inside of the Predator handguard/rail system. I verified this by attempting to slide a piece of paper between them. No-go. This point of contact no doubt compromises the free-floating of the barrel, and at the worst possible point. My guess is that this probably had much to do with the lack of consistent accuracy that I experienced. I’ve contacted Chris at POF and he invited me ship the upper back to them to hopefully have it corrected. I’m disappointed, to say the least. A year’s wait, all that money spent on a high-end rifle, and it shoots like an old SKS! I hope to have better things to say about it when I get it back and have a chance to re-test it. Stay tuned. Anyone else have any P308 experiences to share, especially with a 20 inch barrel? I could use some encouragement but we want to hear it all, good or bad.
Wade, that is some bad luck
Have you shipped it back yet? Please let us know how it functions with the replacement/repaired upper
Will do Steve. Just another thing to do when I’d rather be shooting it. I’m hoping that with the mad rush to keep up with the crazy demand going on right now that I don’t get left in the dust. We’ll see if POF’s customer service is as good as their reputation for quality.
I bought a P308 last November and just got around to shooting it in the last couple weeks. I put a leupold mark 4 4-16 on it. good rings, harris bipod etc. I was pretty impressed with the workmanship on the rifle. I did the clean one fire one break in procedure for the first 20 rounds. I didn’t even look at the groups since i wasn’t using match grade ammo. Then i picked up some of the blackhills 168 match and some of the federal gold match and headed out. Needless to say I got it somewhat zeroed and then tried for groups. I would get about 2 shots sub moa then one would fly 3 or 4 inches out. tried different ammo same story. Then i shot a friend rem 700 that is a .25 moa gun and i shot around .3-.4 or so. I let my friend try the pof and he had the same issue, one or two good shots then a flyer that would be inches out. I came home tonight and was looking it all over and noticed that the gas black was touch the inside of the rail. I thought it was odd when my scope needed a 25 moa right adjustment when I moved it onto the this rifle! So then i come on here and read the above post by wade. same issue as what i found and seams like this is probably my culprate as well. I was really starting to get frustrated, since i spent about $80 on ammo and the gun was very expensive. needless to say, tomorrow POF is getting a call. Hopefully they can gut it straightened out and it will return a sub moa gun.
I just got back from the range for the second time with my 16″ 308 POF and had the same results. I shot one group of just under 2″ once, everything else was hit or miss. It wasn’t consistent at all. I shot better groups with my 16″ para tactical FAL that day with a 80 dollar Chinese scope. I am disappointed with this rifle to say the least. I don’t know what to do.
Ron, at what range did you get the 2″ group?
Hey guys, I recently spent huge bucks on a POF P-308 and had a very disappointing experience the 1st time out. I had major feed and extraction problems. Tried 5 different kinds of ammo and got similar results. Many would either not seat in the camber completely, causing the bolt to fail to go completely into battery (forward assist was no help), or if fully seated and fired, some cases would not extract. Had to force the extraction by hooking the charging handle on the shooting bench edge and bumping the butt stock with my hip! Those rounds, and the few that did eject automatically, had quite visible “ripping” marks from the extractor on the case rim. Also noticed a somewhat triangular shaped burnish mark left about 1/2 way up the side of the brass cases that had been chambered. Never got to check accuracy as I was too busy trying to figure out the malfunctioning problem. You think I have a improperly sized chamber? A headspace problem maybe?
pure zero, while it could be a headspace issue, the more common cause is a “dry” bolt. Is it possible that you cleaned it and got bore solvent in the action? If so, completely lube moving parts with a high quality metal sealer. Tetra grease is a good example. You don’t want gobs of grease. Grease it, buff it, grease it again, and buff it again. This seals the pores in the metal. The bolt should then ride like silk, and have sufficient movement to retract fully, and pick up the next cartridge.
Most of you seem to know quite a bit more about this rifle than I do. A very generic question from the novice; Do you think reloaded ammo will cycle through cleanly? Not just for the POF but others of the AR-10 type.
Thanks response-guy - I appreciate your input. I didn’t use any solvent at all. Gun was brand new. I agree with your recommendation on lube, and that’s pretty much what I do with my (non-POF) AR-15. It runs flawlessly. The interesting thing about the POF uppers is they have a “Silicone Nickel” plating treatment and their claim is you can run their gas piston systems with no lube at all. Well, I will admit that the thought of that freaked me out a bit, so I did apply a very light gun oil to the bolt and carrier before I headed for the range. The chrome plated bolt and carrier in this gun are ultra smooth in movement. “Like silk” is a good description. My problem is with chambering and extraction. Rounds seem to strip off the magazine just fine so I think the bolt must be moving back freely.
dstewart - I have had good luck with quality reloads in my AR-15. No reason why they would not work in AR-10 types. The key is making sure you are using reloads built to the proper specifications. There are a lot of variables. Most serious target shooters use nothing but reloads.
PUREZERO, Ditty what dstewert said. Though reloading is not a black art, there is a considerable amount of science to it. If it’s done carelessly or without proper knowledge, the results can be frustrating or tragic. I’ve seen reloaded rounds with primers poking out too far that made them slam fire as soon as the bolt seated. Very dangerous. I’ve seen improper lubrication used that turned entire batches into duds, and I know a fellow who loaded rounds way too hot and turned his nice new weapon into a hand grenade. Fortunately he didn’t get hurt. When it’s done right, reloaded ammo can be customized for a particular weapon, often allowing it to hit harder and/or achieve better accuracty. For a weapon like the P308 I think I’d skick with high quality factory (match grade) ammo unless you have some time on your hands and want to save some money. If so, do yourself a favo and take the time to learn how to do it right and also research and carry out proper “load development.” If you comb the forums you might just luck out and find someone who could tell you the ideal formual for your rilfe.
All great points, Wade. The physics of what’s going on inside chamber and barrel when modern day ammo is fired is almost mind boggling. One must really know what they are about, do their homework, and work up hand loads - load development - carefully and methodically. If I could afford it I would be very content to use only factory match grade ammo.
BTW Wade, have you heard anything from POF on your P308? How about rotortuner and Ron P.? Any new developments with your POF rifles? You guys are the ones who inspired me to tell “my story” here.
Well after writing the comment about my less than satisfactory experience with my 16″ POF I called Chris at POF and he said that they stand behind their Rifles and to send it in and they would make it right. So I boxed it up and sent it back with a letter explaining what ammo I used and how I used the bore snake in between rounds. I also said in the letter that I was really wanting a 20″ at the time that I bought my rifle and hat if he wanted to change out the 16 for a 20 that I would be willing to pay any fee that he thought would be appropriate. So 10 days later I got a email telling me that my rifle with a new 20″ upper was on the way, no charge. The happy ending is that I now shoot 3/8″ groups with federal gold match 168gr ammo. Its a great rifle and I now feel that it was worth the money. I am really impressed with the service I got from POF and Chris. Oh BTW I ve been shooting 100 yards.
You all seem to know your stuff. I spent a lot of bucks on my POF-USA P415 and have had problems every time out with the hex nut backing out of the piston tube. Chris@POF has stood behind the product and sent me a new upper, however first time out, this one has the same problem. Its not like you can just snug up the hex nut. To get to it you have to remove the rail system. Is anyone else having this problem?