The POF-USA P-308 is a interesting rifle. It is a gas piston operated rifle, based on the AR-10/AR-15 design and requires no lubrication.
14.5″ version
They achieve this by plating the upper receiver with silicon nickel and chroming and heat treating the bolt and carrier.
Upper receiver
Here is a video of it in action
In spite of its name, it is chambered in 7.62X51mm, not .308 (yes, there is a difference).
More info at POF-USA and Defense Review.
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What ammo have you fired in the P-308? I spoke to POF and they tell me the P-308 has NATO reamers. Based on my calculations it will not fire .308, yet POF, over the phone, says it will.
What is reality?
There is a difference between the rounds (pressure), but generally you can fit .308 rounds in a 7.62×51 chamber. If they say it can handle .308 then I am sure it can.
I’m impressed with this rifle’s reliabilty ratings, but wonder why I can’t find MOA specs.
Is anyone able to comment od accuracy?
There was a great review done by Defense Review. They stated that with the 16-inch barrel they were able to achieve sub-half minute-of-angle groups out of the box with no break in. Here is the article.
http://www.pof-usa.com/articles/GW_POF-USA_P308_%5B1%5D.pdf
Here’s a POF P308 range report of sorts: I purchased my brand new P308 SPR with 20in. barrel, about a year ago but due to travel and work could not get a chance to shoot it until last summer. Grrr. While waiting I mounted a new Horus Vision 5-20x scope on ARMS throw lever rings and stocked up on match grade .308 from Black Hills, Federal Gold, and Winchester. All were high-end match loads with 168 grain match bullets with the exception of one 175 grain match load. After getting the set-up zeroed I settled down for some careful accuracy testing. I was quite disappointed as the rifle would not be consistent. The best I could do was one or two slightly sub 2 inch groups while most were larger and some went as wide as 6 inches! Now I can definitely shoot MOA with a rifle and ammo that are up to it, and I was definitely taking my time and feeling comfortable during the two range sessions I spent with the gun I should also note that I was following good break-n procedure and cleaning the bore often. During zeroing I carefully scrubbed the bore between each shot fired. And afterwards I did so between each test group. There is one important caveat here and that is that I knew the rifle to have a flaw when I shot it. Before I had a chance to shot the weapon, while I was fondling it one day I noticed that the piston gas block mounted on the barrel right where it emerges from the rail system appeared to rotated maybe five degrees clockwise when looking down the business end of the bore. Now, the way this rifle comes from the factory there is very little clearance between the outside surfaces of the gas block and the inside surfaces of the rail system that surrounds it. Far too little as far as I can see. On my rifle the combination of the tight fit and the misalignment causes the gas block to actually TOUCH the inside of the Predator handguard/rail system. I verified this by attempting to slide a piece of paper between them. No-go. This point of contact no doubt compromises the free-floating of the barrel, and at the worst possible point. My guess is that this probably had much to do with the lack of consistent accuracy that I experienced. I’ve contacted Chris at POF and he invited me ship the upper back to them to hopefully have it corrected. I’m disappointed, to say the least. A year’s wait, all that money spent on a high-end rifle, and it shoots like an old SKS! I hope to have better things to say about it when I get it back and have a chance to re-test it. Stay tuned. Anyone else have any P308 experiences to share, especially with a 20 inch barrel? I could use some encouragement but we want to hear it all, good or bad.
Wade, that is some bad luck
Have you shipped it back yet? Please let us know how it functions with the replacement/repaired upper
Will do Steve. Just another thing to do when I’d rather be shooting it. I’m hoping that with the mad rush to keep up with the crazy demand going on right now that I don’t get left in the dust. We’ll see if POF’s customer service is as good as their reputation for quality.
I bought a P308 last November and just got around to shooting it in the last couple weeks. I put a leupold mark 4 4-16 on it. good rings, harris bipod etc. I was pretty impressed with the workmanship on the rifle. I did the clean one fire one break in procedure for the first 20 rounds. I didn’t even look at the groups since i wasn’t using match grade ammo. Then i picked up some of the blackhills 168 match and some of the federal gold match and headed out. Needless to say I got it somewhat zeroed and then tried for groups. I would get about 2 shots sub moa then one would fly 3 or 4 inches out. tried different ammo same story. Then i shot a friend rem 700 that is a .25 moa gun and i shot around .3-.4 or so. I let my friend try the pof and he had the same issue, one or two good shots then a flyer that would be inches out. I came home tonight and was looking it all over and noticed that the gas black was touch the inside of the rail. I thought it was odd when my scope needed a 25 moa right adjustment when I moved it onto the this rifle! So then i come on here and read the above post by wade. same issue as what i found and seams like this is probably my culprate as well. I was really starting to get frustrated, since i spent about $80 on ammo and the gun was very expensive. needless to say, tomorrow POF is getting a call. Hopefully they can gut it straightened out and it will return a sub moa gun.
I just got back from the range for the second time with my 16″ 308 POF and had the same results. I shot one group of just under 2″ once, everything else was hit or miss. It wasn’t consistent at all. I shot better groups with my 16″ para tactical FAL that day with a 80 dollar Chinese scope. I am disappointed with this rifle to say the least. I don’t know what to do.
Ron, at what range did you get the 2″ group?
Hey guys, I recently spent huge bucks on a POF P-308 and had a very disappointing experience the 1st time out. I had major feed and extraction problems. Tried 5 different kinds of ammo and got similar results. Many would either not seat in the camber completely, causing the bolt to fail to go completely into battery (forward assist was no help), or if fully seated and fired, some cases would not extract. Had to force the extraction by hooking the charging handle on the shooting bench edge and bumping the butt stock with my hip! Those rounds, and the few that did eject automatically, had quite visible “ripping” marks from the extractor on the case rim. Also noticed a somewhat triangular shaped burnish mark left about 1/2 way up the side of the brass cases that had been chambered. Never got to check accuracy as I was too busy trying to figure out the malfunctioning problem. You think I have a improperly sized chamber? A headspace problem maybe?
pure zero, while it could be a headspace issue, the more common cause is a “dry” bolt. Is it possible that you cleaned it and got bore solvent in the action? If so, completely lube moving parts with a high quality metal sealer. Tetra grease is a good example. You don’t want gobs of grease. Grease it, buff it, grease it again, and buff it again. This seals the pores in the metal. The bolt should then ride like silk, and have sufficient movement to retract fully, and pick up the next cartridge.
Most of you seem to know quite a bit more about this rifle than I do. A very generic question from the novice; Do you think reloaded ammo will cycle through cleanly? Not just for the POF but others of the AR-10 type.
Thanks response-guy – I appreciate your input. I didn’t use any solvent at all. Gun was brand new. I agree with your recommendation on lube, and that’s pretty much what I do with my (non-POF) AR-15. It runs flawlessly. The interesting thing about the POF uppers is they have a “Silicone Nickel” plating treatment and their claim is you can run their gas piston systems with no lube at all. Well, I will admit that the thought of that freaked me out a bit, so I did apply a very light gun oil to the bolt and carrier before I headed for the range. The chrome plated bolt and carrier in this gun are ultra smooth in movement. “Like silk” is a good description. My problem is with chambering and extraction. Rounds seem to strip off the magazine just fine so I think the bolt must be moving back freely.
dstewart – I have had good luck with quality reloads in my AR-15. No reason why they would not work in AR-10 types. The key is making sure you are using reloads built to the proper specifications. There are a lot of variables. Most serious target shooters use nothing but reloads.
PUREZERO, Ditty what dstewert said. Though reloading is not a black art, there is a considerable amount of science to it. If it’s done carelessly or without proper knowledge, the results can be frustrating or tragic. I’ve seen reloaded rounds with primers poking out too far that made them slam fire as soon as the bolt seated. Very dangerous. I’ve seen improper lubrication used that turned entire batches into duds, and I know a fellow who loaded rounds way too hot and turned his nice new weapon into a hand grenade. Fortunately he didn’t get hurt. When it’s done right, reloaded ammo can be customized for a particular weapon, often allowing it to hit harder and/or achieve better accuracty. For a weapon like the P308 I think I’d skick with high quality factory (match grade) ammo unless you have some time on your hands and want to save some money. If so, do yourself a favo and take the time to learn how to do it right and also research and carry out proper “load development.” If you comb the forums you might just luck out and find someone who could tell you the ideal formual for your rilfe.
All great points, Wade. The physics of what’s going on inside chamber and barrel when modern day ammo is fired is almost mind boggling. One must really know what they are about, do their homework, and work up hand loads – load development – carefully and methodically. If I could afford it I would be very content to use only factory match grade ammo.
BTW Wade, have you heard anything from POF on your P308? How about rotortuner and Ron P.? Any new developments with your POF rifles? You guys are the ones who inspired me to tell “my story” here.
Well after writing the comment about my less than satisfactory experience with my 16″ POF I called Chris at POF and he said that they stand behind their Rifles and to send it in and they would make it right. So I boxed it up and sent it back with a letter explaining what ammo I used and how I used the bore snake in between rounds. I also said in the letter that I was really wanting a 20″ at the time that I bought my rifle and hat if he wanted to change out the 16 for a 20 that I would be willing to pay any fee that he thought would be appropriate. So 10 days later I got a email telling me that my rifle with a new 20″ upper was on the way, no charge. The happy ending is that I now shoot 3/8″ groups with federal gold match 168gr ammo. Its a great rifle and I now feel that it was worth the money. I am really impressed with the service I got from POF and Chris. Oh BTW I ve been shooting 100 yards.
You all seem to know your stuff. I spent a lot of bucks on my POF-USA P415 and have had problems every time out with the hex nut backing out of the piston tube. Chris@POF has stood behind the product and sent me a new upper, however first time out, this one has the same problem. Its not like you can just snug up the hex nut. To get to it you have to remove the rail system. Is anyone else having this problem?
just ordered a p308 in feb and im hoping all the problems are worked out buy the time i get it. ron p ur thread is really the only thing keeping me from canceling my order i havent been having good luck with customer service, (problems getting ahold of people) i hope the product is worth the wait ive been doin quite a bit of digging on pof and have found quite a mix of experiences, i hope mine goes well i will have to post when i recieve mine.
This sounds real familiar to me. I waited over 7 months for my 14.5″ P308 to come and had serious problems. At first it wasn’t loading the rounds out of the mag (first two rounds), then the it wouldn’t eject the rounds leaving them stuck in the barrel. I had to use a fiberglass rods to drive the casings out. I wasn’t shooting crap ammo (308 Win Fiocchi 150gr FMJ). I’m going to have my dealer send it back to get it fixed (I’ve got faith that POF will make things right). Now I read the comments above about the P308 being a 7.62 Nato and not a true 308 Win and needing to use ultra expensive match ammo to function properly…I have 2 problems with this. (1) bought 1500 rounds of ammo in 308 in anticipation of this rifle, because the rifle is advertised as a 308. (2) I read articles about this rifle and about how spectacular it was and that the military is very interested in it. If this is so, the military isn’t going to be shooting match grade ammo. This rifle should be able to function with any surplus ammo. Out of all the AR’s I own, I bought this to be the one rifle I grab with the “sh*t hits the fan” and I hope it get fixed and I can trust it to be reliable.
My dealer friend took it to the range and tried several different ammos in 308 and 7.62 and only had one episode of a round not being picked up out of the mag. I’ll get it back this week and try it again for myself.
pure zero interesting reading your post. i’ve been having the same problems. i have .308 with the 16″ barrel. i got off of gunbroker auction sold by heritage firearms in texas as new. ive been to the range 3 times now. all a huge dissapointments. i sold my loaded M1A springfield to get this and have had nothing but problems. chris at pof was big help and said to ship upper to him. did that, got it back and still has the same problems. cant figure it out. im going to send whole gun back to them and hopefully figure out the problem. it keeps jamming. wont cycle at all. thought it was the magazine as CA can only have 10 rounders and have to use dpms clip. anyway will keep updated and keep ready posts here.
Update: My dealer/friend took it to the range with 4 different brands of ammo and both sizes (308 and 7.62) and only had one mishap of the round not getting picked up from the mag. Once I got it back I put 20 through it without a problem. Seems to be fine now. I think it maybe due to tight tolerances and just needs some rounds through it. I’ve also heard that eventhough it states no oil needed, many add a little oil.
I ordered my POF 308 16″ back in November, 2008 and after having the order “misplaced” and a lot of follow up emails with Chris, it is coming in this week (August 2009). I have been nothing but impressed with the customer service they have given me to straighten this issue out. I will let you know how if fires when I get it to the range.
Also, I have been around some groups in the military that are looking to make this their standard carry weapon, replacing the M-4’s and variety of other weapons they carry now. The SR-25 is still on the top for other applications, but this one is being considered for Main Battle Rifle by the Marine Corps as well.
http://www.snipercentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13935
Good range report with pictures (100m, 200m, 500m) 16.5″ 308 POF
Great post gaidin43 can’t wait to get mine, already bought some federal gold match 168 bthp and some black hills 168 bthp cant wait to see how it shoots.
Waited 6 months for POF 20″ through a dealer, then found one on Gunbroker. On initial cleaning I found severe fouling in the gas system and RUST on the gas piston. POF replaced the piston free in two days, but I thought it was CROS (corrosion resistant operating system)? Then at the range with 4 types of ammo (NATO 147gr, Win 147gr, Win 168gr Match, and Hor 168gr TAP) I got dismal accuarcy. Best group of 2.5 MOA w/ the TAP, worst of 6 MOA with the NATO 147gr. Had a friend with me who is a Highpower Match shooter and also had his HBAR AR with him. He had the same results with my rifle, and we both were able to get .75 MOA with his AR. After 70 rds I separated the upper and lower receivers and noticed silver metal flakes in the action. Appears the charging handle and bolt carrier where making contact somewhere during the firing cycle. I also found that several of the Hor TAP rds had punctured primers. Sent the upper back to POF yesterday. I’ll give them one chance to fix it…if no joy I will go with the Rem 700P. Pretty disappointing to pay $2500 for a top-end rifle and then have quality control issues, but it seems a lot of other people have had the same experience.
I recently purchased a p-308 16″ and had major problems with the weapon. Individually, rounds fired true, but after extraction, the rifle refused to chamber a second round. When I manually racked a round using the charging handle, sometimes a round would chamber, other times it would just mark up the round in the magazine. I ended up shipping it back to the store I bought it at for repair. I expected more from a well known, ‘high-end’ weaponsmith like pof-usa. I’ll re-post when I get it back, but so far I’d say POF has some quality control issues.
Dan
Still waiting on my rifle, the rails and bolts are not completed yet. Chris has been updating me on the status, but still taking a long time. Hopefully, with this extra time they are putting into production they will have worked out all these issues people are experiencing. Even so, the system is still the next step in AR’s and military rifles.
Received my long awaited P-308 with 20″ barrel on 14-Aug. Took it to the range the next day. Put 5 rounds through it, it would chamber the first round with no problem but would not extract it after firing. The extractor would either cut the brass or dent it real bad, either way the casing was still in the barrel. I have sent it to POF for repair. I am trying to have positive thoughts… after a 51 week wait for the rifle I really want this to produce sub MOA.
Dennis
It sounds like Patriot Ordnance Factory is having quality control problems. I’ve now spoken with five people with similar malfunctions. What’s up with POF 2009?
quality control indeed. really interesting to hear the same exact problems are happening all around. Now that they exchange out the “out of spec” bolt it works great. they did turn it around fast.
My upper arrived yesterday (Friday). I went shooting today. What a difference, I was able to shoot 1 inch groups at 100 yds. NO feed issues at all. I hate that I had problems but am very impressed on the quick turn round and accuracy now that it is repaired. I would recommend the the P-308. Chris at POF was great to work with.
Dennis
Bought a p308 16″ barrel. Broke it in properly. After 80 rounds, started getting problems. The empty casing was getting caught by the bolt carrier in the ejection port. Would get thirty or forty rounds through it, then a failure to eject agin. Spoke with Chris at pof, sent back the upper, and anxiously awaiting it’s return. Hoping to get the same reliability as I’ve had with my m1a and hk91. The pof is a lighter weight rifle. Is an issue when hiking distances in mountainess terrain.
Kudos to POF for their Customer service. After receiving my rifle, POF had it on it’s way back home in less then a week! Got it back in great condition, took it to the range, and WHOA!!! I LOVE MY POF 16″!!!!! With a Millet TRS-1 scope mounted, I was threading a needle at 600M. 5 shots = 1′5 inch diameter groups. Recoil is not at all what I’d expect from a .308. I was chomping at the bit after my first failed range trip, so I put about 280 rounds down range, and it ran them like butter.
Dan is greatly pleased with this new development.
Chris @ POF: If you’re listening: Thank you for the great customer service!
Dan S.(the “I should have sent it directly to you, but instead sent it to the shop I bought it at” guy)
Reading this thread has been very educational. My thanks to all who have contributed to date.
I’m planning to purchase my first AR type rifle and I’ve more-or-less settled on the POF P-308. I’m left-handed and left eye dominant, so I really appreciate the ambidextrous controls, especially the bolt release.
One thing I have not been able to track down (at least not yet) is any technical data that compares the 16″ “RECON” barrel to the 20″ “SPR” barrel. At what range does the 20″ barrel make a practical difference?
Silas
I am considering purchasing a pof 308 16″ barrell. With all the comments I am reading am a bit hesitant.
I never heard back from Wade to find out if he solved his problem.
You have to scrubbed the bore after each round for the first 20 rounds?
Nicolas
i am loading two different 308 asavage 10 and a fn spr my problem is i am getting misfires in the fn i have been loading ammo for afew years have all the percision tools i load every thing from my 223 to my 50bmg all once fired brass has been fulllenth sized trimmed i used a rcbs mic to obtain seating depth on the savage loaded a box they shot fine in the savage but in the fn it seams the fireing pin does not hit the primer hard enough to fire the round could this be a seating depth problem.need help from sumone who knows what they are talking about.sorry typing aint my thing
I own 2 pof-308 rifles, and have had them at the range twice since owning them. I have had multiple jams and misfeeds double feeds etc, rounds getting stuck in chamber rounds not extracting without force, sometime they wont pick them up outta magazine even. I have gotten no more than 5 rounds in a row ever. Ive used Blackhills match 168, 175gr m118 m118lr fn 762 etc all with the same or worse results. The only group I have fired from the rifle was less than .5moa so its an accurate gun but it refuses to feed. I bought this as a shtf rifle and so far have been disappointed I hope pof makes this right.
P-308: A month later…
After getting my P-308 back from Patriot, I have been to the range seven times. Every time I’ve been out since my initial trouble, the thing feeds like a hungry dog. Every shot is perfectly placed, and I’ve now run about 500 rounds of South African and German surplus 7.62×51 through it without a single misfeed. I take a lot of clients out shooting as a networking/client relationship building measure, and I have to say it’s really impressed. Hats off to POF. They made it right.
my $.02
I too own a p-308 16″ gun and guess what? I have problems as well. I have the same problems a lot of you seem to have the gun does not extract rounds (i have had to use cleaning rods to get them out and close the stock and slam it on the ground). I have shot, blackhills, magtech, federal match, nato ball, and a few others. I have put more than 250 rounds in the gun and i tell you this is the worst gun i have in the locker.
After 18 months i finally got the gun. I will tell you that i am a gun retailer and i have had NOTHING but problems with POF. I will tell you that i know a few of you have had good success with chris but we have dumped POF as a retailer because of him. The would lose orders, tell us we did not place the order and at one point chris unloaded at my business parter! I have not been able to test the MOA because of all the cycle issue been trying to trouble shoot that. I am glad to read these posts. lets me know i am not alone on my problems.
As far as orders go. We where told 2 months, then 2 months come and go and we call them they cannot find the order. 2 more months come and go and still no rifles. 10 months come and go and still no rifles. 14 months come and go, starting to get the pattern! 18 months! after we where told 2. My parter and i cancelled all our orders but two. we will not do business with them. BUT we wanted a rifle to T&E. I will say when we did get them the craftsman ship seemed good.
BUT on closer examination there was rust on the piston assembly. i called them to get a new part and they wanted me to send the item back to them and i need prior permission, kind of an RA but no one was around to give it to me i was talking to some girl that answered the phone.
I have noticed some wear on the charging handle.
I have to say, i own a AI, Noveske, Les Baer, Wilson, Barrett, and quite a few more mil style guns and i have NEVER had such a bad experience my suggestion is BUY NOVESKE! we sell them (not placing an add here) and we have NEVER NEVER had a problem!!!!
If you use POF bring a back up gun!
By continuing reading comments on the pof-308 i realize this is not the rifle for me, i am moving on.
Thanks.
The customer service is great with POF, but the wait is what sucks. I hate to think that the troubles I previously had is the norm. It could be that those that have inevitible problems are on here posting about it. I would hate to dump on a great rifle. I think the POF is very tight and just needs to be broken it. Even though is says oil-less…I would add a little oil. As stated before, mine would jam rounds in the barrel, but after adding oil and shooting 50 rounds through it it’s run with no real issues. Every once-in-a-while (very rare) a round doesn’t pick up out of the DPMS mag. Still on backorder for POF mags…
Once I got mine in to POF, they turned it around in less then a week.
Sucked that it didn’t work the first time out to be sure, but since that, I have had not one single mis-feed/jam at all. I’m actually really shocked to hear the negative feedback on POF on this forum. My experience with them once they were aware of the problem was pretty great. My $.02
I don’t think that the people who have had problems just happen to post here.
I think what people need to look at is that (probably) a small sample of people have posted here, of the overall problem. I like to say that people are NOT unique even though we feel that we are and that our experiences such as this rifle are NOT unique either.
I would say that on such a small forum i would be alarmed that SO many people on this forum have had problems, makes me ask HOW many people that have had problems and do not know about this forum, don’t have computers, don’t know how to post, or just don’t give a damn. I think i would be more concerned about what we don’t know that what we do.
Just my two cents.
And just a thought about breaking in a gun or a gun needing to be broken in. I have never had a gun become MORE reliable after a period of time. when you have a problem with a firearm it is a function of some thing NOT working right. That problem does not JUST go away. I have several wilson combats. there is a break in period of 600 rounds before you even break them down. BUT the break in period does not mean you are suffering jams misfeeds etc. Quite the contrary they WORK flawlessly. It has always been my experience that a pig is a pig is a pig /shrug for what it is worth.
Not trying to be a stick in the preverbal mud but i own a few guns and i can truly say that this one has been the biggest downer. I could be wrong but i do expect when rifle manufactures make you wait and charge top dollar that the gun should work for the get go. maybe the cost of the gun does not include quality control or a quality check?
incoming rounds have the right-away!
Talk about the power of the internet…
I had just read the article about the POF 308 in the AR Rifleman magazine this past weekend and determined this was to be the 308 rifle for me.
Talk about luck. Finding this website is a godsend for me. I see no advantage in starting out with a rifle that has this many problems. It also appears that this is not just a single flaw limited to a very few rifles. Just too many problems for me.
I would bet there are a great number of the POF 308’s still sitting around in the boxes having never been fired. I bet many of them have the same problems as listed here.
Any other suggestions on a 308 battle type rifle with low recoil?
Thanks all for the up front comments…
hay Alabill, I think you made a wish choice. My suggestions would be 3 at this point.
If you want the top of the line piston gun i would look at the LWRC REPR i have personally fired that rifle and it is VERY nice and it has some really good features. The barrels are “quick change” and can use the rifle in many configurations check out this link
http://www.lwrci.com/p-120-repr.aspx
Also if you want a TOP of the line gas gun look at noveske. I will say that they are finally getting caught up on their 308 production so it might be a wait for that one BUT if you dont mind the rifle is well worth it.
Another one to consider and a medium price point is the FN AR 308 i personally have not fired one BUT we have sold a couple in the store and the over all “KIT” is very well done. I have gotten a BUNCH of positive feedback. Plus FN is top notch company no way you can go wrong.
Hope that all helps. All the guns will do at worst SUB MOA, if accuracy was my primary interest it would be hard to chose.
aaron
Honestly, I don’t know where all this hate is coming from. Other than the wait time on the order I have had nothing but good experiences with Chris, POF and this rifle.
My times at the range, I have had no miss fires, jams, or any of these issues people are talking about as a cause of the gun. The one problem I had was due to a bent feed lip on the mag that was causing the next round not to feed. There is a little bit of wear in the chamber and on the feed ramp, but that is to be expected.
The rifle is sub-moa out of that box, great handling, and surprisingly light. I wouldn’t know it too much till you take it seriously and handle it just as you would handle any other new rifle.
I have a POF 308 16…..I bought it about 2 months ago. It has functioned perfect for me from day one.
I do have a a iron sight issue however. I installed the Troy Flip up sights front and rear and am unable to get them to zero. They are adjusted full right and are barely on the paper. I also had a issue with getting my Leupold Mark 4 1.5-4.5 to zero. I had to flip the GG&G mount around and adjust the turrett full down to ger her to zero, which leaves me nothing for elevation adjustments. I wondering if it is a rail issue or the parts I selected complete my rifle.
gaidin, not sure what you are interpreting as hate BUT people are simply stating that they have had serious issues with this manufacturer. I guess it the truth hurts some times? I personally think that people should know where there are issues and what to expect and can make an informed decision on a product.
Hay troy, I have seen that problem and was due to the rail system not being in perfect alignment with the receiver. It is an angular issue. Small amount off at the receiver can cause a football field of correction down range. small suggestion would be to put a laser bore site if you have one in the bore and see where it aligns up with the iron sites. OR visa versa put the laser on the rail and the will give you an angular picture. First place i would check would be on those barrel screws (on the left and right of the rail system ) and the rail screws. rail might not be true. there are some peoples of people saying that the gas block is not aligned to the rail maybe it is the rail that is not aligned to the gas block ?? just a thought. either way probably going to have to go back.
hope that helps and good luck
aaron
PS i did send in my rifle a few days ago and it only took them 1 total week to get it back, pretty fast. I had a problem with stuck rounds. They replaced the bolt and assembly seems to be working BUT out of 40 rounds i did get a lite primer hit. Hoping that is not due to the firing pin being out of spec now. I will post more here next weekend going to blast 100 + rounds see what happens
Gaiden: I’m with you on the “where’s the hate coming from” train.
My POF-16 is a beast! After getting it back, I’ve abused the thing thoroughly and can now say I trust her implicitly. After 2000+ rounds, She’s a sub-moa, feral pig killing machine!
I own quite a bit of tactical hardware, and nothing I’ve ever fired in 7.62×51 has been this lightweight. I’ve never felt a .308 with this little recoil.
my $.02
Hello Guys:
thanks for all the feedback of your POF’s 308s
I was just getting ready to order one with a 20 inch barrell but I must say that I think that I will have to wait.
Too many bum reports of malfunctions.
Maybe if these were temp anomalies I might reconsider. If any of you have any suggestions please e mail me at rexmanltd@verizon.net. It is a beautiful gun and I really would like one but I must admit that I am discouraged with what I have read here. I have two Galils and a Saiga AK and they are awesome and extremely reliable. Really do not want headaches and just wish to have fun.
Merry Christmas to all and happy holidays. Plz let me know of your thoughts.
Thanks
Manny M.
Arron,
Thanks for the input…..I sent the upper out last week and got her back today. It was sent back out the next day after they recieved it. They(POF) replaced the whole upper rail system and upgraded the bolt, it may actually be a whole new upper they test fired. They said it was the rail system out of alighnment.
A+++ For customer service.
Like anything new to a market…there is going to be a few issues to resolve along the way. I used to work for BMW and Mercedes as a TECH. I have seen brand new cars drive off the showroom floor and make it 2 blocks , only to brake and have it sit in the shop for weeks waiting for a new part or software flash. Alot of these problems come from a impatient customer base, or having to beat the competition to the market with a similar product.
I bought several Sigs this year….so far both Sigs I decided to shoot, my 226 combat and p238 have had feeding issues right out of the box. I never seen a Sig fail before until now.
My neighbor bought a KRISS and did his friend…..both of them have had their weapons back to the factory twice with no resolve. Both are stove piping and having primer strikes after the first mag is run.
I am starting to think that the possibility of new gun law fears, drove the demand up so high last year. That Quality Control may have gone out the window for a few companies.
Hay troy i would tend to agree with you. I have seen the QC of several brands seem to go out the window. Most recent we had a springfield Micro Compact my biz partner purchased and the first time we went out and shot it the ejector broke. we only fired about 30 rounds they had a tempering issue.
It does seem to be an issue effecting the industry right now. I am glad you had a positive experience.
I sent my complete upper into POF for the repairs i stated above and they got it back pretty fast about a week. +-, My only concern is that there was not a letter inside stating what they did for repair, and when i called the guy answering the phone could not tell me. Disorganized! But i will say as i think i stated above so far so good but the weather has prevented me from putting enough rounds through the gun to be confident. Especially not knowing what the issue was. (they did say they replaced the extractor, but that was not the issue /shrug)
just my three cents
Thats a really insightful take on the QC problems we’ve all seen.
Hey guys. Thanks for all the inputs.
Gonna give it a whirl and get me one with a 20 inch barrel.
Their [POF] CS seems superior. I called and spoke with Chris and was very impressed with his demeanor at least. He seems very honest and up front.
Will report back to you later on.
Happy Holidays
Manny
Hi Guy’s, I am having the same problems you all are having, Chris told me to send it back and I cannot find there address, anyone have it, Thanks,Dean
Here is the address to POF. Make a note of your problem and attention to Chris in repairs.
POF-USA, 5619 N. 53rd Ave, Glendale, AZ, 85301
Dean, here is the address i sent it to.
Ship To:
POF USA
ATTN REPAIR
5619 N 53RD AVE
GLENDALE AZ 85301-6011
aaron
Hey, guys, just got my P-308-16. It’s new from the factory, 2009 stock. Haven’t gotten a chance to really test it out, but I’ve taken it to a nearby range twice now, and I’ve been very happy with the limited usage so far. What’s impressed me the most is how clean the bolt carrier group stays.
The first time I shot it, I didn’t use any lube, and I used the cheapest surplus military 7.62’s I could find (Venezuelan FMJ’s). The first couple of shots, the bolt “stuck” slightly to the rear. It wasn’t locked back, it just didn’t slide all the way forward after firing. After smacking the rifle, it shot back forward. This happened twice, but after the first few rounds it never happened again. The rest of the ammo fired perfectly, and I didn’t notice any problems.
The second time out, I had a little bit of lube in the rifle (from when I was cleaning it) and I used Remington .308 Core-Lokt (again, cheapest .308’s I could find nearby). I’m not sure whether it was the magazine that comes with the rifle or the rifle itself, but it did NOT like that ammo. I only used 20 rounds, but out of the 20, 4 failed. It appeared that when chambering the next round (after firing) the Remy .308 had troubled clearing the magazine, causing the bolt to ram it into the magazine wall. The bullet was then jammed BACK INTO the brass casing. This happened four times. I’m sure this sort of thing probably has a name, but I’m relatively new to this type of shooting. As a note, though, the rounds that did fire properly kept a fairly decent group. If I had to guess, I would think that this problem is entirely the fault of the particular ammo I chose. The soft nose probably caught on the magazine wall as it was feeding.
The rifle was a snap to clean. I literally just wiped down the gas piston pieces and the BCG. There was a tiny bit of carbon inside the chamber, but it too just wiped right off. It wasn’t nearly as dirty as an M-16 after the same number of round.
Overall, the rifle feels and fits very nice. I love the Ergo pistol grip, it just feels great in the hand. The Vltor buttstock feels great in the shoulder. Really I don’t have any complaints thus far, but it’s still a bit early. I’m going to mount a decent scope on it and see what kind of MOA I can get with it using some higher quality ammo in the next few weeks. After blowing all my money on the rifle, though, I have to wait a bit to buy some good optics
As stated earlier in the blog, my rifle had non extraction and failure to feed issues when I first used it. After using a little oil and a few boxes of ammo later, it performs flawlessly! With an aimpoint sight I was able to shoot less than an 1″ groups. I think these rifles are very tight and needs some rounds put threw them. I have gone from questionable faith to full faith in this rifle. With it’s looks and the groups I was producing, everyone at the range wanted to shoot it. As far as the Rem CL rounds go, I went hunting with those this year with no problems.
I am looking for a “bug-out rifle” or “when sht hits the fan rifle”. I have spent 10 yrs. in the U.S. Army (Airborne Infantry).
I have survived the colt issued by the Army through multiple deployments. I didn’t have a choice with the colt, but I do now. I felt that I was at risk in combat with the colt, considering after 3 mags it would malfunction in several ways. My need for reliability is now more important than ever.
Natural disasters, terrorist attacks, and civil unrest are all a real possibility. In these scenarios my firearm of choice’s reliability would be more important than in any combat scenario. More important than myself are my two sons’ and wife. That is why this rifle MUST work. Being able to take down the only deer I have seen in a week is vital. Protecting my family from all sorts of animals to include the ones with the ability to shoot a rifle is vital.
1: I need a rifle that can shoot ammo from all manufactures and surplus. I might need to find ammo on the go and don’t want to break the bank by only being able to shoot match grade. This is why I am NOT choosing 6.8 or 6.5. 308 is popular and has more to offer than 5.56. I personally witnessed an insurgent take 7 rounds to the chest from a M249 SAW and survive. 5.56 doesn’t cut it.
2: I need a rifle with relentless reliability. It must be able to go through all that earth, nature, and I can dish out.
3: Accuracy is paramount
The list goes on to include weight, ammo capacity, etc…
When I first learned of your rifles it was in a magazine. The article claimed 20,000 rounds no cleaning, no lube, and no malfunction. We as consumers need to know if your rifles are a good choice. Have the problems been fixed? Should we expect to purchase your rifles for top dollar and a long wait only to send it back for repairs? I am the most serious type of buyer. The rifle I choose will not be purchased for a collection, for fun, or for sport. When it gets used it will be for practice to improve myself as the operator of the rifle. The other is when my family’s lives are at stake. I have spent countless hours discussing the choice of a bug-out rifle with friends, family, gun stores and it has come down to POF and LWRC. I have stuck with POF as my choice for a long time. When I ask the local gun Store’s in Fayetteville, N.C. they say LWRC. LWRC didn’t have a 308 but now they do! In a very real way I am trusting a rifle with the lives of my family. Why should I choose yours? Can the rifles actually reach the claim of 20,000 rounds and why aren’t these making it?
The following link is one forum discussing the P-308. There are comments regarding your product. I am posting the above and would like a response to this and some of the comments posted. There are references to a gentleman that works for POF named Chris. Chris has helped some of the individuals with there problems. It would be great if Chris or another knowledgeable representative could respond.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/02/21/pof-usa-p-308/
I sent the above to POF via email and hope they respond. I am like some of you, I thought I knew and was ready to purchase. I think I will take more time.
Marcus,
Like I stated before in the blog, I had provlems at first but my POF 308 works flawlessly now and I have confidence in it. With that said, I also have an Armalite AR-10. The Armalite has never malfunctioned on me no matter what I have thrown at it (cheap and expensive ammo…dirty or clean). Again, I have full faith in my POF, but if you are concerned and you want a “for sure” great shooting 308 I would go with the Armalite.
have to say i love the “idea” of POF. and yes chris did fix the problem and turn it around although had to send it twice. my LWRC is flawless. would say if i had to rely on one rifle it would LWRC. was thinking of selling my 308 pof and getting another LWRC
Have noted it before but will note it again. It does not make me happy to pay a lot of money for an ar then have to send it back to the MFG to have it repaired. EVEN if the gun is better when it comes back, leaves me with very little confidence in the platform.
I second the comment with LWRC ( they are a fantastic company and rifle), i would add noveske in there. Those two in the 208 platform or the best rifles there are.
I two am seriously considering selling my POF with less than 200 rds in in due to these issues on this forum plus the loss of confidece
I have a noveske and an LWRC and never had to send them back and the accuracy is bar NONE!
For what it is worth
LWRC makes good stuff, but $3600 for a 308 is really steep. I was really putting myself out on the $2400 for the POF. The Armalite is less that $1600…but not a piston.
i have shoot thousands of rounds a year and some times in one outing. A good gas gun will run extremely well! Dont be over sold by the piston system. I only own them to try them out. (like i said the best one so far is the lwrc in function, and design with the short stroke (and that is important) piston.
Here is my suggestion, shoot the hell out of what ever system you buy, run the gun, and after thousands of rounds you will have your answer. I never take a gun fire a few rounds if it works put it in the rack. train train train and that is not just your skills but the systems too.
The gas and carbon have to go some where and it exits in a piston gun up at the gas block through a “valve” style system and is vented by a very small hole. LONG story short. I am betting with same abuse as a gas gun compare the carbon build up at that point you will start to have similar issues and even stoppages. BUT that is a prediction. that is in a POF take a look at the LWRC and the system is a little different just an observation
aaron
I sent my 16.5″ P308 back to Chris in Sept. I would fire then *click*. Never ejecting the spent brass. The fixed that problem fairly quickly.
However, I can only get to the range once every 2 months or so, and he I am in March with another feeding issue. Now it only ejects the brass half way causing it to slam into the next round being fed into the chamber.
This is getting expensive because it ruins the next cartridge…. I have an email out to Chris again… I’m getting really sick of having such an awesome rifle…that doesn’t work. Kinda wish I went with LWRC.
But if they could just get it to work reliably then I’d be happy as a clam.
Like another guy towards the top of this forum posted, I want this to be my SHTF rifle. It NEEDS to be reliable. And it’s way too expensive to not work correctly.
Note- I’ve tried all kinds of rounds, both factory and reloads, brass and steel, dpms and magpul mags.
Adam I know your frustration. As you can see in the posts i have had issues too. I think if i was purchasing another LWRC REPR or Noveske (gas gun, the only way they make it)
I wish i could offer you some words of advice but i pretty much stand by my initial comments POF is subpar since they started farming out their work . I dont want to be a broken record so i will say read all my previous posts and know that i will never buy them again as a FFL holder and a gun enthusiast.
aaron
Has anyone has had an issue with the upper and lower not fitting tight? My 20″ seems to have a lot of play between the upper and lower, enough that I can grasp the upper and wiggle it from side to side. Most of my ar15’s have no play. For the money, I though this would be the same if not better. I wish I would have been able to hold my gun prior to purchase. I just emailed POF but no response yet. It’s as though the front pivot pin hole wasn’t cut right? Any ideas?
Try this:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=698479
I put one on mine and it helped the wiggle.
i took mine out this weekend this will about 60 ish rounds since i got it. i had 2 click and no bangs!!
Ryan, that is a little normal there is a little bit of play just depends on how much you have. you can use a tensioning pin its called to get it really tight. but if is really lose then it is just a bad fit. would not surprise me on the bad fit part.
I have a question for everyone who has had feed problems with a POF 308: Did you opt for the NP3 coating, or the black anodized finish? I know it shouldn’t make a difference, but I can’t help but wonder if the different finishes come out of different shops.
Mine is black and there is no slack between the two. My rifle started out with ejection problems (round stuck in the barrel), but after a few boxes of ammo I only experienced the occasional no round pick up out of the DPMS mags. Now, after 100 rounds or so fo differnt types of ammo (7.62 NATO and 308 Win), I get no malfunctions at all. I also opted to buy the 7.62 Magpul mags (from Botach) which are a better fit then the DPMS ones. Never sent mine back to Chris…just shot the heck out of it and now there are no problems.