Comments on: Ugliest modern pistol http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/ Firearms not Politics Fri, 10 Feb 2012 22:12:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: AB http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-66341 AB Sat, 02 Jul 2011 14:52:09 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/#comment-66341 PTRS-41 (1938) anti tank rifle (WW2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PTRS-41 note that the same class Barrett M82 (1980) was developed 42! year later PTRS-41 (1938) anti tank rifle (WW2)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PTRS-41

note that the same class Barrett M82 (1980) was developed 42! year later

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]]> By: AB http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-66340 AB Sat, 02 Jul 2011 14:43:22 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/#comment-66340 this posting is bulls*t including the topic itself it sounds as if poster was thinking to have sex with this gun and then change his mind. in addition: * ..they don’t have the history and culture of firearms..* MP-446 (Viking) gun accuracy test on the long range http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ8taAke8Gs TT pistol (1930) http://www.enemyforces.net/firearms/tt.htm ***** As example fire accuracy error in 50 m range was only 15 cm comparing with available 35.5 for standard western pistols. In muzzle energy the "TT" surpassed "Parabellum" and was almost equal to long barrel "Mauzer". ***** Bullet fired from "TT" can shoot-through soldiers helmet, dig-in in 35 cm, shoot-through 15 cm wooden log. It also shoots-through second class amour vest and shoots-through from one side third classes amour west. To protect from "TT" bullets there should be used increased third class vests known as A+ Mosin Nagant (1891) - the best sniper rifle in WWII http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosin%E2%80%93Nagant this posting is bulls*t including the topic itself
it sounds as if poster was thinking to have sex with this gun and then change his mind.

in addition:
* ..they don’t have the history and culture of firearms..*

MP-446 (Viking) gun accuracy test on the long range
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ8taAke8Gs

TT pistol (1930)
http://www.enemyforces.net/firearms/tt.htm
*****
As example fire accuracy error in 50 m range was only 15 cm comparing with available 35.5 for standard western pistols. In muzzle energy the “TT” surpassed “Parabellum” and was almost equal to long barrel “Mauzer”.
*****
Bullet fired from “TT” can shoot-through soldiers helmet, dig-in in 35 cm, shoot-through 15 cm wooden log. It also shoots-through second class amour vest and shoots-through from one side third classes amour west. To protect from “TT” bullets there should be used increased third class vests known as A+

Mosin Nagant (1891) – the best sniper rifle in WWII
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosin%E2%80%93Nagant

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]]> By: Jeff Vaile http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-54966 Jeff Vaile Wed, 09 Feb 2011 00:17:52 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/#comment-54966 All of the Ruger autos to me are triple homely!!!! I mean they look like they were made by a small-town old-time western blacksmith. I had a 45 acp, that mean, bulky, ugly square-headed, boxy, loose, wobbly looking thing. I sold it pretty fast. I took it to the range 4 or 5 times tried various brands of American ammunition. I have always shot pretty well having bought and sold many many handguns and rifles. But with this thing it didn't shoot groups, oh no, It shot vicinities at 25 yards. Using a 26" bicycle rim as the holder {covering it with paper}, this masterpiece couldn't get three shots within 4 inches at 25 yards using 10 shots, regardless of numerous shooters.Rugers are dependable, for self-defense and 10 round there is good chance you might get an intruder with at least one round, and with a 45 acp that is all you need{neighbors better duck}. I have a CZ 82 9x18MM Makarov which is a good-looking weapon and it is a bullet driver... All the CZ lines looks pretty good, they are tightly built and are known for their shooting ability too. I have heard nothing negative from anyone about them.... All of the Ruger autos to me are triple homely!!!! I mean they look like they were made by a small-town old-time western blacksmith. I had a 45 acp, that mean, bulky, ugly square-headed, boxy, loose, wobbly looking thing. I sold it pretty fast. I took it to the range 4 or 5 times tried various brands of American ammunition. I have always shot pretty well having bought and sold many many handguns and rifles. But with this thing it didn’t shoot groups, oh no, It shot vicinities at 25 yards. Using a 26″ bicycle rim as the holder {covering it with paper}, this masterpiece couldn’t get three shots within 4 inches at 25 yards using 10 shots, regardless of numerous shooters.Rugers are dependable, for self-defense and 10 round there is good chance you might get an intruder with at least one round, and with a 45 acp that is all you need{neighbors better duck}.
I have a CZ 82 9x18MM Makarov which is a good-looking weapon and it is a bullet driver… All the CZ lines looks pretty good, they are tightly built and are known for their shooting ability too. I have heard nothing negative from anyone about them….

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]]> By: aintnothingwrongwith9mm http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-46749 aintnothingwrongwith9mm Fri, 12 Nov 2010 05:43:10 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/#comment-46749 Sure it isn't just ethnocentric bias because it's Russian? Really, aside from the fact that it looks like it's been beaten to crud, I don't see how it's any worse looking than some of the industrial looking designs that Ruger, Kahr, Kel-Tec has produced. And, c'mon, what about Glock. It's not winning any pageants any time soon. Buy, yeah, no one is going to mistake that Grach for something off the assembly lines of Pietro Beretta SPA, or Heckler & Koch GMBH! Sure it isn’t just ethnocentric bias because it’s Russian? Really, aside from the fact that it looks like it’s been beaten to crud, I don’t see how it’s any worse looking than some of the industrial looking designs that Ruger, Kahr, Kel-Tec has produced. And, c’mon, what about Glock. It’s not winning any pageants any time soon.

Buy, yeah, no one is going to mistake that Grach for something off the assembly lines of Pietro Beretta SPA, or Heckler & Koch GMBH!

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]]> By: edison http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-43099 edison Mon, 20 Sep 2010 16:59:19 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/#comment-43099 It looks good,and stripped i can see a modern TT-33 action there.If TT-33 says smth to u it has to be durable in every possible harsh condition.Doesnt betray u and finally has a harder 9mm. As TT it has Browning heritage so unsurprised it feels like a Colt It looks good,and stripped i can see a modern TT-33 action there.If TT-33 says smth to u it has to be durable in every possible harsh condition.Doesnt betray u and finally has a harder 9mm.

As TT it has Browning heritage so unsurprised it feels like a Colt

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]]> By: Graig http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-30407 Graig Fri, 09 Apr 2010 01:04:51 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/#comment-30407 I dig these Russian guns. I have a Makarov and an AK, and I'd buy a Grach in a heartbeat if they could be imported here. I dig these Russian guns. I have a Makarov and an AK, and I’d buy a Grach in a heartbeat if they could be imported here.

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]]> By: Jim http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-27636 Jim Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:24:25 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/#comment-27636 Just me, but I have an old Makarov. The economics of the Russian military and Police surplus is it's selling point. The Mak is a KGB issue and it's size is perfect for carrying. These look to be bigger than the Mak. And since I bought the gun for defense, the look matters, but not nearly as much as functionality. And at the range, none of the Russian handguns is ugly enough to get you banned from coming back. Funny one post indicated you could use it as a hammer. How about when you run out of bullets, use it to pistol whip enemy(ies)/intruder(s). Or even throw the spent handgun at them. A rougher and coarser finish will also do more damage as the pistol whipping is being administered. Like the magazine & bullets, you get only so many opportunities, make the most of them. Just me, but I have an old Makarov. The economics of the Russian military and Police surplus is it’s selling point. The Mak is a KGB issue and it’s size is perfect for carrying. These look to be bigger than the Mak. And since I bought the gun for defense, the look matters, but not nearly as much as functionality. And at the range, none of the Russian handguns is ugly enough to get you banned from coming back.

Funny one post indicated you could use it as a hammer. How about when you run out of bullets, use it to pistol whip enemy(ies)/intruder(s). Or even throw the spent handgun at them. A rougher and coarser finish will also do more damage as the pistol whipping is being administered. Like the magazine & bullets, you get only so many opportunities, make the most of them.

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]]> By: Rob Simmons http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-26266 Rob Simmons Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:13:09 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/#comment-26266 Not as ugly as the Russinan IZH-35m Not as ugly as the Russinan IZH-35m

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]]> By: kagbalete http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-21384 kagbalete Sat, 12 Dec 2009 17:51:14 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/#comment-21384 come to think of it, it is a ruger p85, albeit uglier, but looks as rugged as an ak.......... come to think of it, it is a ruger p85, albeit uglier, but looks as rugged as an ak……….

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]]> By: Burban http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-10024 Burban Thu, 28 May 2009 13:26:26 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/#comment-10024 This looks to me like a clone of the original Ruger P85/89 (http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=3048). The manual safety/decocker has been moved from the slide to the frame. What is most striking is the Ruger-esque guide rod. As I recall, the P85 was designed to compete in the "Great Sidearm Competition" in the mid- to late-80s that gave rise to the current-issue Beretta M9/92. I have a P85 and as one would expect from Ruger, the gun is WAY over-built for the 9mm cartridge -- even with a steady diet of +P+ ammunition. This looks to me like a clone of the original Ruger P85/89 (http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=3048). The manual safety/decocker has been moved from the slide to the frame. What is most striking is the Ruger-esque guide rod. As I recall, the P85 was designed to compete in the “Great Sidearm Competition” in the mid- to late-80s that gave rise to the current-issue Beretta M9/92. I have a P85 and as one would expect from Ruger, the gun is WAY over-built for the 9mm cartridge — even with a steady diet of +P+ ammunition.

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]]> By: jon http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-7288 jon Wed, 11 Mar 2009 00:58:36 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/#comment-7288 Where can I purchase the russian made gsh-18 9mm handgun Where can I purchase the russian made gsh-18 9mm handgun

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-5186 Steve Mon, 19 Jan 2009 03:19:53 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/#comment-5186 Sami, thanks for the comment. very interesting. Sami, thanks for the comment. very interesting.

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]]> By: Sami http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-5185 Sami Mon, 19 Jan 2009 03:18:08 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/#comment-5185 I used to own one civilian model called MP-446 "Viking". Still got two extra magazines for it (holds 17 rounds). It's a decent pistol and works just fine even in harsh conditions. Local paper did a test with 5000 rounds through it without cleaning (can't remember the results, I think it didn't feed properly after 6k of rounds). It also throws spent cardridges almost straight back and if you aren't holding your gun properly they end up in your face (according to many reports). Didn't happen to me and I did shoot about 15-17 thousand rounds. Groups (from my memory) were mostly around 20cm from 25m since I'm only a decent shooter. Sights are a tad on the crappy side, but works just fine for MLE. Ergonomics are great although I do have big hands. When I let other people shoot with it they we're usually suprised about how good the grip feels (1911 like) and the performance of the gun. Civilian model also has plastic frame, the slide is the same, while MLE uses full metal frames. As for finishing - it's typical Russian with 5% tolerances etc. Compared to any western pistol side-to-side looks really bad. But it just works, much like AK47. I used to own one civilian model called MP-446 “Viking”. Still got two extra magazines for it (holds 17 rounds).

It’s a decent pistol and works just fine even in harsh conditions. Local paper did a test with 5000 rounds through it without cleaning (can’t remember the results, I think it didn’t feed properly after 6k of rounds).

It also throws spent cardridges almost straight back and if you aren’t holding your gun properly they end up in your face (according to many reports). Didn’t happen to me and I did shoot about 15-17 thousand rounds.
Groups (from my memory) were mostly around 20cm from 25m since I’m only a decent shooter. Sights are a tad on the crappy side, but works just fine for MLE.

Ergonomics are great although I do have big hands. When I let other people shoot with it they we’re usually suprised about how good the grip feels (1911 like) and the performance of the gun.

Civilian model also has plastic frame, the slide is the same, while MLE uses full metal frames. As for finishing – it’s typical Russian with 5% tolerances etc. Compared to any western pistol side-to-side looks really bad.
But it just works, much like AK47.

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]]> By: Mike http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-3322 Mike Wed, 05 Nov 2008 13:58:30 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/#comment-3322 It looks like a combination of a beretta 92f and a mark 23. It isn't ugly... if you want to see an ugly handgun, check out the Beretta Px4 handgun line or the Steyr M handguns. And it doesn't look unfinished, it looks like it's been rigorously tested and you're looking at the beat up result. It looks like a combination of a beretta 92f and a mark 23. It isn’t ugly… if you want to see an ugly handgun, check out the Beretta Px4 handgun line or the Steyr M handguns.

And it doesn’t look unfinished, it looks like it’s been rigorously tested and you’re looking at the beat up result.

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]]> By: What is a Saiga? | The Firearm Blog http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-921 What is a Saiga? | The Firearm Blog Sat, 29 Dec 2007 22:56:57 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/#comment-921 [...] Russians are not know for producing beautiful firearms, but you would have thought they would have chosen a nicer looking animal than the Saiga for which [...] [...] Russians are not know for producing beautiful firearms, but you would have thought they would have chosen a nicer looking animal than the Saiga for which [...]

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-626 Steve Mon, 26 Nov 2007 02:25:24 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/#comment-626 thanks for that info. "The Russian design teams are much more about function - they don’t have the history and culture of firearms as art or accoutrement as many of us do." Good point! thanks for that info.

“The Russian design teams are much more about function – they don’t have the history and culture of firearms as art or accoutrement as many of us do.”

Good point!

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]]> By: GunPorn http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/comment-page-1/#comment-517 GunPorn Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:18:16 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/11/18/ugliest-modern-pistol/#comment-517 I was actually grabbing photos of the Grach on Friday for the GunPorn blog. Unfortunately, all the decent shots I've seen are those same ones here. The gun looks... rough. It looks almost unfinished when compared to similar firearms on the market, like it got machined but never deburred or cleaned before being assembled. The 9x19 ammo is interesting at least. Another handgun that uses it is the GSh-18 - http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg111-e.htm (photos also by Max who took those pictures of the Grach - this time with the AP 9x19 ammo in the frame). I think what we're seeing here is a firearm built with two purposes - something that can hold more ammo and more potent ammo than the old Maks, and something that is still hardy enough to operate alongside the AKs and Maks in the field (and be used for hammering nails as needed). The Russian design teams are much more about function - they don't have the history and culture of firearms as art or accoutrement as many of us do. I was actually grabbing photos of the Grach on Friday for the GunPorn blog. Unfortunately, all the decent shots I’ve seen are those same ones here. The gun looks… rough. It looks almost unfinished when compared to similar firearms on the market, like it got machined but never deburred or cleaned before being assembled.

The 9×19 ammo is interesting at least. Another handgun that uses it is the GSh-18 – http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg111-e.htm (photos also by Max who took those pictures of the Grach – this time with the AP 9×19 ammo in the frame).

I think what we’re seeing here is a firearm built with two purposes – something that can hold more ammo and more potent ammo than the old Maks, and something that is still hardy enough to operate alongside the AKs and Maks in the field (and be used for hammering nails as needed).

The Russian design teams are much more about function – they don’t have the history and culture of firearms as art or accoutrement as many of us do.

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