Comments on: The 5th generation Lee-Enfield http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/08/22/the-5th-generation-lee-enfield/ Firearms not Politics Fri, 10 Feb 2012 23:24:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: dan http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/08/22/the-5th-generation-lee-enfield/comment-page-1/#comment-57935 dan Tue, 15 Mar 2011 09:23:19 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/08/22/the-5th-generation-lee-enfield/#comment-57935 Mate gotta get me one of these the enfield action is my fav of all time id go the match looks sweet Mate gotta get me one of these the enfield action is my fav of all time id go the match looks sweet

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]]> By: Tony http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/08/22/the-5th-generation-lee-enfield/comment-page-1/#comment-54739 Tony Sun, 06 Feb 2011 00:06:42 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/08/22/the-5th-generation-lee-enfield/#comment-54739 This is an old thread. But I will give it some of my experience. I live in Germany and was fortunate to Buy my AIA No4 Mk 4 with a Picatinny rail but no cheek piece for a very good price. It was of course correctly imported and has the German proof marks. I shot a lot of No 4 mk1's and 2's as a teenager in the UK cadet force CCF in the early 80’s (I was also a Cadet Armourer). So I can compare the quality of manufacture at least as a consumer. The engineering of my AIA is exceptional to very very good. I was fortunate to be able to see mine before I bought it. The bolt action although brand new was very smooth and felt good and right. It was one of those gut buys I don’t regret. The dealer was probably happy to see it go as the German market really is not interested in this rifle. A real shame as it is a beauty. The Germans are interested only in original manufactured military weapons as they can shoot them in "Ordonnanz" competitions. A sports shooting license to do this is very difficult to obtain and once obtained the number of rifles owned is also strictly controlled (in comparison to other countries). An original Enfield is also of course much cheaper! I bought mine the same time as I was buying/picking up a Remington 700 SPS as my main hunting rifle. I had just qualified as a German hunter (Jaeger). The AIA in comparison to a traditional hunting rifle it is of course very heavy, this is the main reason the German hunters would not buy it. However having being a British soldier for many years, I have carried similar or heavier. So I don’t mind. I’ll see how I’ll feel about that when I am into my retirement, many years to go yet:) The AIA was what I was looking for. I wanted a more traditional rifle in .308 W (all my rifles are 308W) with wooden furniture, able to fit a modern hunting scope with a removable magazine in a brand new or hardly worn condition and proofed for the German market. It had to be accurate and robust. The AIA ticked all the right boxes especially the price. I also bought the AIA because it was a British design with an exceptional history. I also enjoyed shooting the .303 version as a teenager. Being a Brit in Germany I just simply wanted a .308 Enfield. I also like the Mauser. I have a 98 also in .308W (M1916). So how does it shoot? Well at 50 m with iron sights using a yellow post-it on a dark background (a wild boar) as a quick and cheep sighting target, it was ½ to ¼ MOA:) Using a basic bench rest sandbag and seated. Aimed shot were placed between 5 and 10 seconds. Using a single round reload, reposition and aim. The reason for this being magazines are allowed to be fitted but not used at the hunting range I currently use. (German safety rules for this range). Adjusting the foresight post was easy using an L1A1 Combination tool as the setup is the same as an SLR. A big Improvement on the original as far as I am concerned. Next I fitted a 3.5 -12 x 50 (1”Tube) Hawke Sports optic Scope and achieved ½ to 1 MOA. The problem was I could not get a spot weld for my cheek. I was aiming the rifle without my cheek on the stock. I could only simulate this by opening my jaw and putting the bottom of my chin on the top of the standard stock. The recoil was no problem as the rifle is heavy. So that was the good news. What’s the bad… I wanted a cheek piece in the same wood/stain/colour etc.. So I researched around and the only options were a reproduction L42 or No4(T) copy at stupid prices, or contact AIA in Australia. I sent them an email and got a prompt reply asking for photos of my wood work etc… to get the best match. I of course sent of the requested information and have never heard from then since. Despite follow up emails from me nothing came back:( Therefore customer service 0/10. I would pay a premium for the matching cheek piece as I got the rifle for a very fair price. So instead of buying direct from AIA I have obtained an expensive L42 cheek piece clone. That has taken several hours of careful sanding to make it fit. It is not the same wood and is really a bit of a disappointment however it will have to do. I don’t really have any other choice... Furthermore because the modern hi-power scope is mounted higher than the original scope the cheek piece is still not high enough for the perfect cheek weld :( A piece of sleeping mat (hard foam) in green solves this problem, but it is cosmetically bad but fully functional. Would I recommend buying one? Yes most certainly, but get one only with an original AIA cheek piece and an original AIA Picatinny rail. Don’t worry about a spare magazine, an M14 10 round will fit perfectly when the rear lug is carefully filed at the bottom at an angle. Give this job to an armourer it is only a 5 minute job with a fine file using the original magazine as a guide and the rifle to test fit. (Watch carefully for the magazine release catch angle and distance from the trigger guard.) So to sum up. Precision 10/10, fun and discussion factor 10/10, AIA customer service 0/10. Proud to be an owner..YES This is an old thread. But I will give it some of my experience. I live in Germany and was fortunate to Buy my AIA No4 Mk 4 with a Picatinny rail but no cheek piece for a very good price. It was of course correctly imported and has the German proof marks.
I shot a lot of No 4 mk1′s and 2′s as a teenager in the UK cadet force CCF in the early 80’s (I was also a Cadet Armourer). So I can compare the quality of manufacture at least as a consumer.
The engineering of my AIA is exceptional to very very good. I was fortunate to be able to see mine before I bought it. The bolt action although brand new was very smooth and felt good and right. It was one of those gut buys I don’t regret. The dealer was probably happy to see it go as the German market really is not interested in this rifle. A real shame as it is a beauty. The Germans are interested only in original manufactured military weapons as they can shoot them in “Ordonnanz” competitions. A sports shooting license to do this is very difficult to obtain and once obtained the number of rifles owned is also strictly controlled (in comparison to other countries). An original Enfield is also of course much cheaper! I bought mine the same time as I was buying/picking up a Remington 700 SPS as my main hunting rifle. I had just qualified as a German hunter (Jaeger). The AIA in comparison to a traditional hunting rifle it is of course very heavy, this is the main reason the German hunters would not buy it. However having being a British soldier for many years, I have carried similar or heavier. So I don’t mind. I’ll see how I’ll feel about that when I am into my retirement, many years to go yet:)
The AIA was what I was looking for. I wanted a more traditional rifle in .308 W (all my rifles are 308W) with wooden furniture, able to fit a modern hunting scope with a removable magazine in a brand new or hardly worn condition and proofed for the German market. It had to be accurate and robust. The AIA ticked all the right boxes especially the price. I also bought the AIA because it was a British design with an exceptional history. I also enjoyed shooting the .303 version as a teenager. Being a Brit in Germany I just simply wanted a .308 Enfield. I also like the Mauser. I have a 98 also in .308W (M1916).
So how does it shoot? Well at 50 m with iron sights using a yellow post-it on a dark background (a wild boar) as a quick and cheep sighting target, it was ½ to ¼ MOA:) Using a basic bench rest sandbag and seated. Aimed shot were placed between 5 and 10 seconds. Using a single round reload, reposition and aim. The reason for this being magazines are allowed to be fitted but not used at the hunting range I currently use. (German safety rules for this range). Adjusting the foresight post was easy using an L1A1 Combination tool as the setup is the same as an SLR. A big Improvement on the original as far as I am concerned. Next I fitted a 3.5 -12 x 50 (1”Tube) Hawke Sports optic Scope and achieved ½ to 1 MOA. The problem was I could not get a spot weld for my cheek. I was aiming the rifle without my cheek on the stock. I could only simulate this by opening my jaw and putting the bottom of my chin on the top of the standard stock. The recoil was no problem as the rifle is heavy.

So that was the good news. What’s the bad…

I wanted a cheek piece in the same wood/stain/colour etc.. So I researched around and the only options were a reproduction L42 or No4(T) copy at stupid prices, or contact AIA in Australia. I sent them an email and got a prompt reply asking for photos of my wood work etc… to get the best match. I of course sent of the requested information and have never heard from then since. Despite follow up emails from me nothing came back:( Therefore customer service 0/10. I would pay a premium for the matching cheek piece as I got the rifle for a very fair price. So instead of buying direct from AIA I have obtained an expensive L42 cheek piece clone. That has taken several hours of careful sanding to make it fit. It is not the same wood and is really a bit of a disappointment however it will have to do. I don’t really have any other choice… Furthermore because the modern hi-power scope is mounted higher than the original scope the cheek piece is still not high enough for the perfect cheek weld :( A piece of sleeping mat (hard foam) in green solves this problem, but it is cosmetically bad but fully functional.

Would I recommend buying one? Yes most certainly, but get one only with an original AIA cheek piece and an original AIA Picatinny rail. Don’t worry about a spare magazine, an M14 10 round will fit perfectly when the rear lug is carefully filed at the bottom at an angle. Give this job to an armourer it is only a 5 minute job with a fine file using the original magazine as a guide and the rifle to test fit. (Watch carefully for the magazine release catch angle and distance from the trigger guard.)

So to sum up. Precision 10/10, fun and discussion factor 10/10, AIA customer service 0/10. Proud to be an owner..YES

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]]> By: Ross http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/08/22/the-5th-generation-lee-enfield/comment-page-1/#comment-46186 Ross Wed, 03 Nov 2010 17:42:40 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/08/22/the-5th-generation-lee-enfield/#comment-46186 Ok, All I want to know about these guns, is how they perform. I've heard both good and bad about them. Are they solid reliable rifles? or are they cheapy ripoffs of a British classic? I'm really interested in them but wouldn't even consider buying one until I can research them properly. Ok, All I want to know about these guns, is how they perform. I’ve heard both good and bad about them. Are they solid reliable rifles? or are they cheapy ripoffs of a British classic? I’m really interested in them but wouldn’t even consider buying one until I can research them properly.

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]]> By: subase http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/08/22/the-5th-generation-lee-enfield/comment-page-1/#comment-40642 subase Mon, 16 Aug 2010 06:24:43 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/08/22/the-5th-generation-lee-enfield/#comment-40642 I'll just add that if you want to sell the meat of a kangaroo killing them by headshot/s is mandatory. They won't accept the carcass if it's been shot anywhere else. It's a law created to prevent animal cruelty and give them a quick painless death. I’ll just add that if you want to sell the meat of a kangaroo killing them by headshot/s is mandatory. They won’t accept the carcass if it’s been shot anywhere else. It’s a law created to prevent animal cruelty and give them a quick painless death.

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/08/22/the-5th-generation-lee-enfield/comment-page-1/#comment-292 Steve Sat, 03 Nov 2007 11:29:08 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/08/22/the-5th-generation-lee-enfield/#comment-292 Hi GM, thanks for the info on roo shooting! I have not heard of any plans to offer the M10 in any other caliber. The only other caliber I know it has been offered in is the 7.62x39mm. Hi GM, thanks for the info on roo shooting!

I have not heard of any plans to offer the M10 in any other caliber. The only other caliber I know it has been offered in is the 7.62x39mm.

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]]> By: G.J.Murphy http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/08/22/the-5th-generation-lee-enfield/comment-page-1/#comment-287 G.J.Murphy Sat, 03 Nov 2007 06:09:38 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/08/22/the-5th-generation-lee-enfield/#comment-287 Thanks Steve, The proffesional roo shooters who supply the table meat for the restraunt industry normally use .223's and the occaisionaly one will use a .222rem as they shoot fairly flat, deliver good accuracy and the ammo is abundant and very cheap (either: surplus military, commercial or reloaded). Id say the over-riding criteria for their choice of cartridge would be the economy side of it & that they can hit them through the head each time. I will look into the target shooting thing and see if they know anything more about them. I had been considering a .243 or 6mm rem in a remington 700 with a varmint configuration, which again would be a fine rifle though I had long been a fan of the original enfields (ergonomics, aesthetics etc) and when these new manufacture ones caught my eye they swayed me that way. If only they offered them in some other calibres. Do you know if they plan to offer other calibres in the future? I would get a .303 though Im convinced they would be complete and utter overkill on the lower end of the scale where as a .308 would mearly be a little over gunned! I wouldnt be too worried about what condition the carcass is in, anytime we specifically go after rabbits & meat I revert back to the .22Lr (which I still get alot of enjoyment out of) GM Thanks Steve,
The proffesional roo shooters who supply the table meat for the restraunt industry normally use .223′s and the occaisionaly one will use a .222rem as they shoot fairly flat, deliver good accuracy and the ammo is abundant and very cheap (either: surplus military, commercial or reloaded).
Id say the over-riding criteria for their choice of cartridge would be the economy side of it & that they can hit them through the head each time.

I will look into the target shooting thing and see if they know anything more about them.
I had been considering a .243 or 6mm rem in a remington 700 with a varmint configuration, which again would be a fine rifle though I had long been a fan of the original enfields (ergonomics, aesthetics etc) and when these new manufacture ones caught my eye they swayed me that way. If only they offered them in some other calibres.
Do you know if they plan to offer other calibres in the future?

I would get a .303 though Im convinced they would be complete and utter overkill on the lower end of the scale where as a .308 would mearly be a little over gunned! I wouldnt be too worried about what condition the carcass is in, anytime we specifically go after rabbits & meat I revert back to the .22Lr (which I still get alot of enjoyment out of)

GM

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/08/22/the-5th-generation-lee-enfield/comment-page-1/#comment-281 Steve Sat, 03 Nov 2007 01:28:37 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/08/22/the-5th-generation-lee-enfield/#comment-281 what do hunters normally use on kangaroos? what do hunters normally use on kangaroos?

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/08/22/the-5th-generation-lee-enfield/comment-page-1/#comment-280 Steve Sat, 03 Nov 2007 01:27:22 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/08/22/the-5th-generation-lee-enfield/#comment-280 Hi GM, I have seen photos of Australian service rifle shooters using the AIA rifles. Why not email or call the nearest club and ask how to get i touch with a member using the rifle. They should be able to tell you if the rifle delivers sub MOA accuracy. There is nothing stopping you from using a .308 on varmints. You may want something smaller if you plan on eating them. If you just want to cull them then I don't think a dead rabbit will mind if you used a .22LR or a .50BMG ;) As far as recoil and noise goes, that depends on your situation. I have **never** shot a .243 but from what I have read it effective on both varmints and larger game. From http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.243winchester.html : "The popular 243 winchester originated as a wildcat based on the 308 winchester brass necked down to 243 caliber, Warren Page developed the first prototype of this cartridge, it was then made available as a factory cartridge to the public by winchester in 1955. The 243 winchester is the first true dual purpose class of cartridges, loaded with lighter bullets it is an extremely effective varmint round, sending a 70 grain bullet out the barrel at 3,500 fps., this is enough for any varmint sized game at the 400 yard mark, however load it with 100 grain bullets at 3,000 fps. and you have an excellent deer and antelope round good for 300 yards. My own favorite bullet weight is 87 grains which serves the dual purpose of varmint and deer cartridge. The 243 winchester is a light recoiling round which is comfortable enough for anyone to shoot, and it is inherently accurate which is a bonus to all that own a rifle chambered in this round. " Hi GM, I have seen photos of Australian service rifle shooters using the AIA rifles. Why not email or call the nearest club and ask how to get i touch with a member using the rifle. They should be able to tell you if the rifle delivers sub MOA accuracy.

There is nothing stopping you from using a .308 on varmints. You may want something smaller if you plan on eating them.

If you just want to cull them then I don’t think a dead rabbit will mind if you used a .22LR or a .50BMG ;)

As far as recoil and noise goes, that depends on your situation.

I have **never** shot a .243 but from what I have read it effective on both varmints and larger game.

From http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.243winchester.html :

“The popular 243 winchester originated as a wildcat based on the 308 winchester brass necked down to 243 caliber, Warren Page developed the first prototype of this cartridge, it was then made available as a factory cartridge to the public by winchester in 1955.

The 243 winchester is the first true dual purpose class of cartridges, loaded with lighter bullets it is an extremely effective varmint round, sending a 70 grain bullet out the barrel at 3,500 fps., this is enough for any varmint sized game at the 400 yard mark, however load it with 100 grain bullets at 3,000 fps. and you have an excellent deer and antelope round good for 300 yards.

My own favorite bullet weight is 87 grains which serves the dual purpose of varmint and deer cartridge.

The 243 winchester is a light recoiling round which is comfortable enough for anyone to shoot, and it is inherently accurate which is a bonus to all that own a rifle chambered in this round. “

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]]> By: G.J.Murphy http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/08/22/the-5th-generation-lee-enfield/comment-page-1/#comment-279 G.J.Murphy Sat, 03 Nov 2007 01:15:42 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/08/22/the-5th-generation-lee-enfield/#comment-279 I too am incredibly frustrated by the lack of general information, specs etc. but Id like your opinion based on what info has been released thus far:- How would one of these heavy barrelled .308's (The M10 "Match" or the No4 Mk4(T)) perform as an all-round varmint rifle? -Would you find the load/calibre (.308) a bit excessive for the varmint application? -Would the rifle deliver the required sub moa accuracy straight out of the box? Im Australian and would encounter ranges anywhere from 50m-400m mainly on the Varmint class of animal eg rabbits, foxes, dingoes etc and then Id also like to branch into the larger game encountered in south eastern Aus like Roos, Pigs, Goats etc I personally think it may be "too much gun" for rabbits and it may prove too loud for the afternoons where I sit a distance back from the rabbit warrens and pick them of individually. Id be extremely hesitant to get the any of carbine or shorter barrelled versions in .308 or 7.62x39mm due to the accuracy and recoil I am seriously considering getting one soon, but again am a little put off by the lack of public awareness. Anyway Id welcome peoples opinions regards GM I too am incredibly frustrated by the lack of general information, specs etc.
but Id like your opinion based on what info has been released thus far:-
How would one of these heavy barrelled .308′s (The M10 “Match” or the No4 Mk4(T)) perform as an all-round varmint rifle?
-Would you find the load/calibre (.308) a bit excessive for the varmint application?
-Would the rifle deliver the required sub moa accuracy straight out of the box?

Im Australian and would encounter ranges anywhere from 50m-400m mainly on the Varmint class of animal eg rabbits, foxes, dingoes etc and then Id also like to branch into the larger game encountered in south eastern Aus like Roos, Pigs, Goats etc
I personally think it may be “too much gun” for rabbits and it may prove too loud for the afternoons where I sit a distance back from the rabbit warrens and pick them of individually. Id be extremely hesitant to get the any of carbine or shorter barrelled versions in .308 or 7.62x39mm due to the accuracy and recoil

I am seriously considering getting one soon, but again am a little put off by the lack of public awareness. Anyway Id welcome peoples opinions
regards

GM

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]]> By: Peter http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/08/22/the-5th-generation-lee-enfield/comment-page-1/#comment-121 Peter Sat, 29 Sep 2007 05:32:24 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/08/22/the-5th-generation-lee-enfield/#comment-121 Yes, it's a real address. I belong to an Enfield chat board, and I'll send you anything I happen to hear. The 7.62x39 rifles are out of production. There's also a company here in the USA that does this conversion of .303 No4's and is looking at a .45ACP version as well. http://www.specialinterestarms.com/ If you're interested, the folks who make their barrels will also make .303 barrels in nearly any weight, although they do charge $25 for proper Enfield threading. Yes, it’s a real address.

I belong to an Enfield chat board, and I’ll send you anything I happen to hear.

The 7.62×39 rifles are out of production. There’s also a company here in the USA that does this conversion of .303 No4′s and is looking at a .45ACP version as well.

http://www.specialinterestarms.com/

If you’re interested, the folks who make their barrels will also make .303 barrels in nearly any weight, although they do charge $25 for proper Enfield threading.

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]]> By: Steve http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/08/22/the-5th-generation-lee-enfield/comment-page-1/#comment-119 Steve Sat, 29 Sep 2007 02:46:49 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/08/22/the-5th-generation-lee-enfield/#comment-119 Hi Peter, I am afraid I have no new information on their availability in the US. I hadn't heard about the Thai stocks. I am nearly 100% certain that 7.62x39 are not being sold in Australia at this point in time. I was given an Australian hunting magazine that had an AIA advertisement and a review of one of their rifles. I will post the review and I will scan in the advertisement and post it on the blog. Is the email you posted above valid? If so I will email you when I post the ads. Hi Peter,

I am afraid I have no new information on their availability in the US. I hadn’t heard about the Thai stocks.

I am nearly 100% certain that 7.62×39 are not being sold in Australia at this point in time. I was given an Australian hunting magazine that had an AIA advertisement and a review of one of their rifles.

I will post the review and I will scan in the advertisement and post it on the blog.

Is the email you posted above valid? If so I will email you when I post the ads.

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]]> By: Peter http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/08/22/the-5th-generation-lee-enfield/comment-page-1/#comment-115 Peter Fri, 28 Sep 2007 17:01:15 +0000 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/08/22/the-5th-generation-lee-enfield/#comment-115 The story so far, as I understand it, is that the 7.62x39 models are on the market in Australia and have been for a couple of years. As for the 7.62Nato models, there was some hollering as to the source of the parts, particularly how much was of Vietnamese origin. Last I heard, the teak for the stocks was then sourced from Thailand. There was, on a previous version of the AIA website, and on the Marstar site, too (IIRC), an announcement that they (AIA) were seeking an American distributor, supposedly to be set during the summer of 2007. Well, it's 9/28 as I write this, and I've heard nothing. And Yes, I am going to be the first one on my block to get one. As soon as they figure this out, that is. Have you heard anything? The story so far, as I understand it, is that the 7.62×39 models are on the market in Australia and have been for a couple of years.

As for the 7.62Nato models, there was some hollering as to the source of the parts, particularly how much was of Vietnamese origin. Last I heard, the teak for the stocks was then sourced from Thailand.

There was, on a previous version of the AIA website, and on the Marstar site, too (IIRC), an announcement that they (AIA) were seeking an American distributor, supposedly to be set during the summer of 2007. Well, it’s 9/28 as I write this, and I’ve heard nothing.

And Yes, I am going to be the first one on my block to get one. As soon as they figure this out, that is.

Have you heard anything?

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